I may be unlikely to get you to answer my question of a while ago but I think it's worth putting again, just to emphasise that you've completely avoided it.
To an external observer, what you've actually described yourself as saying and what you've posted here is indistinguishable from the acts and comments of someone who's intent on harassing their new Muslim neighbours. What would such a hypothetical person have done differently? What litmus test would tell him apart from you?
You'll see two question marks in that paragraph. First time round you waltzed by them without a glance. I'd be grateful for a response.
Here's a question for you Brits...
Here's a question for you Brits...
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Here's a question for you Brits...
spot;1403462 wrote: I may be unlikely to get you to answer my question of a while ago but I think it's worth putting again, just to emphasise that you've completely avoided it.
To an external observer, what you've actually described yourself as saying and what you've posted here is indistinguishable from the acts and comments of someone who's intent on harassing their new Muslim neighbours. What would such a hypothetical person have done differently? What litmus test would tell him apart from you?
You'll see two question marks in that paragraph. First time round you waltzed by them without a glance. I'd be grateful for a response. So are you saying that because I've asked the police to help on the first occassion I've called them, I am " Intent" on harrassment of my new neighbours?
To an external observer, what you've actually described yourself as saying and what you've posted here is indistinguishable from the acts and comments of someone who's intent on harassing their new Muslim neighbours. What would such a hypothetical person have done differently? What litmus test would tell him apart from you?
You'll see two question marks in that paragraph. First time round you waltzed by them without a glance. I'd be grateful for a response. So are you saying that because I've asked the police to help on the first occassion I've called them, I am " Intent" on harrassment of my new neighbours?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Here's a question for you Brits...
oscar;1403463 wrote: So are you saying that because I've asked the police to help on the first occassion I've called them, I am " Intent" on harrassment of my new neighbours?
I've said nothing of the sort. I've asked two intelligent questions which are relevant to the issue of how the police should have responded to your phone calls.
Are you able to answer what I asked? I think the answer is there's no such litmus test and you're indistinguishable, but you may feel otherwise. If so, you could explain why.
I've said nothing of the sort. I've asked two intelligent questions which are relevant to the issue of how the police should have responded to your phone calls.
Are you able to answer what I asked? I think the answer is there's no such litmus test and you're indistinguishable, but you may feel otherwise. If so, you could explain why.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. ... Hold no regard for unsupported opinion.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. [Fred Wedlock, "The Folker"]
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Here's a question for you Brits...
spot;1403465 wrote: I've said nothing of the sort. I've asked two intelligent questions which are relevant to the issue of how the police should have responded to your phone calls.
Are you able to answer what I asked? I think the answer is there's no such litmus test and you're indistinguishable, but you may feel otherwise. If so, you could explain why.
Noisy neighbours face £2,500 fines as police get new powers - Politics - News - Evening Standard
However, I want none of this... just a friendly visit.
Not over looking the fact that the Inspector I spoke to was all In favour of a friendly visit because the problem had been going on for a month. It may be far more reasonable than some resident deprived of sleep losing It and going round the house and bashing them... It does happen you know !!
As for a litmus test... all situations are different Spot.... What may not affect one person may be a major headache for another. For one person, It could be a systematic destruction of their quality of life that needs a quick response.
You are asking for a clear definition when there can't be.... the police have to weigh up every case on It's merits... The Inspector weighed up the history related to this complaint and decided It was likely to be In the best Interests of everyone , not just me, to do something asap before tensions were created In the community. If he didn't feel the case needed some help from community officers, he would not have agreed to It.... Not every case Is the same.
Are you able to answer what I asked? I think the answer is there's no such litmus test and you're indistinguishable, but you may feel otherwise. If so, you could explain why.
Noisy neighbours face £2,500 fines as police get new powers - Politics - News - Evening Standard
However, I want none of this... just a friendly visit.
Not over looking the fact that the Inspector I spoke to was all In favour of a friendly visit because the problem had been going on for a month. It may be far more reasonable than some resident deprived of sleep losing It and going round the house and bashing them... It does happen you know !!
As for a litmus test... all situations are different Spot.... What may not affect one person may be a major headache for another. For one person, It could be a systematic destruction of their quality of life that needs a quick response.
You are asking for a clear definition when there can't be.... the police have to weigh up every case on It's merits... The Inspector weighed up the history related to this complaint and decided It was likely to be In the best Interests of everyone , not just me, to do something asap before tensions were created In the community. If he didn't feel the case needed some help from community officers, he would not have agreed to It.... Not every case Is the same.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Here's a question for you Brits...
The decision to send a unit by the Inspector was based on the given history of the complaint and It being deemed as anti-social behaviour..... there Is no litmus test... all complaints are treated on their different problems.....
This Is taken from Avon and Somerset Police website
Tackling anti-social behaviour
Photo gallery
Tackling anti-social behaviour is one of our top priorities and we are working closely with partner organisations and communities to stop it quickly and effectively.
Across the force we have 60 neighbourhood policing teams who are dedicated to resolving anti-social behaviour and supporting people whose lives it affects. We have strong systems in place to help identify repeat problem areas and potentially vulnerable victims.
By continuing to work closely with partner agencies and building strong relationships with communities, we are committed to addressing the issues that matter to you.
Everyone has a right to feel safe and be safe in their community and we work closely with other agencies to help improve your quality of life.
The downloadable anti-social behaviour booklets (available below) have been written to guide you through the reporting process for incidents of anti-social behaviour. They outline what anti-social behaviour is, what police and partners can do to help you, as well as containing useful contacts and an anti-social behaviour diary to make recording any incidents as easy as possible.
Reporting incidents of anti-social behaviour
In an emergency, or if you witness a serious crime, call 999 immediately. In non-emergencies you can call us on 101, 24 hours a day. In a non-emergency we will either arrange for a police officer or police community support officer (PCSO) to make contact with you. Alternatively an appointment will be made with a member of your local neighbourhood policing team at a time, date and location to suit you. You can also report incidents of anti-social behaviour by attending your local police station, or by completing our on-line form.
If you have a problem that you would like to discuss then please come along to your local PACT (Partners and Communities Together) meeting or local beat surgery. Visit our local pages and enter your postcode to find out when and where your next meeting is taking place and who to contact in your area.
As part of our commitment to making your neighbourhoods a safer place to live, we will:
Listen and take your complaint seriously.
Fully investigate your report and take action to resolve all incidents effectively.
Keep you fully informed about what is being done.
Work with our partners and the community to proactively resolve incidents of anti-social behaviour at the earliest opportunity and provide better support to vulnerable people.
Work in your community to better understand the problems that matter to you.
Robustly deal with offenders and work with other agencies to reduce offending behaviour.
This Is taken from Avon and Somerset Police website
Tackling anti-social behaviour
Photo gallery
Tackling anti-social behaviour is one of our top priorities and we are working closely with partner organisations and communities to stop it quickly and effectively.
Across the force we have 60 neighbourhood policing teams who are dedicated to resolving anti-social behaviour and supporting people whose lives it affects. We have strong systems in place to help identify repeat problem areas and potentially vulnerable victims.
By continuing to work closely with partner agencies and building strong relationships with communities, we are committed to addressing the issues that matter to you.
Everyone has a right to feel safe and be safe in their community and we work closely with other agencies to help improve your quality of life.
The downloadable anti-social behaviour booklets (available below) have been written to guide you through the reporting process for incidents of anti-social behaviour. They outline what anti-social behaviour is, what police and partners can do to help you, as well as containing useful contacts and an anti-social behaviour diary to make recording any incidents as easy as possible.
Reporting incidents of anti-social behaviour
In an emergency, or if you witness a serious crime, call 999 immediately. In non-emergencies you can call us on 101, 24 hours a day. In a non-emergency we will either arrange for a police officer or police community support officer (PCSO) to make contact with you. Alternatively an appointment will be made with a member of your local neighbourhood policing team at a time, date and location to suit you. You can also report incidents of anti-social behaviour by attending your local police station, or by completing our on-line form.
If you have a problem that you would like to discuss then please come along to your local PACT (Partners and Communities Together) meeting or local beat surgery. Visit our local pages and enter your postcode to find out when and where your next meeting is taking place and who to contact in your area.
As part of our commitment to making your neighbourhoods a safer place to live, we will:
Listen and take your complaint seriously.
Fully investigate your report and take action to resolve all incidents effectively.
Keep you fully informed about what is being done.
Work with our partners and the community to proactively resolve incidents of anti-social behaviour at the earliest opportunity and provide better support to vulnerable people.
Work in your community to better understand the problems that matter to you.
Robustly deal with offenders and work with other agencies to reduce offending behaviour.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Here's a question for you Brits...
Apologies for three posts In a row but at last I have found what I am looking for....
Noisy neighbours could face £2,500 fines | AirQualityNews
Taken from article:
Noisy neighbours could be handed fines of up to £2,500 under plans unveiled by home secretary Theresa May yesterday (May 22) in a bid to tackle anti-social behaviour.
Under the proposed regime the police will be given greater powers to tackle anti-social behaviour including noise nuisance, littering, dog fouling and ‘yobbish’ behaviour.
The plans will condense 19 existing powers into just six new ones. The proposals are detailed in a White Paper published by the Home Office, called ‘Putting Victims First: More Effective Responses to Anti-Social Behaviour’.
Theresa May, Home Secretary, has revealed proposals to tighten laws over noisy neighbours
The White Paper explains that at present noise nuisance falls under the preserve of local authorities, many of whom don’t have out of hours services meaning complaints cannot be tackled immediately. This means that many residents turn to the police to deal with the nuisance. In 2008/09 the police were called out 88,317 times to deal with noise nuisance.
The police, says the Home Office, currently have limited powers to control noise, however the proposed regime would allow them to issue a community protection notice to stop persistent noisy behaviour, rather than simply attending an incident or referring it.
My entire point.... police will attend an Incident.
Noisy neighbours could face £2,500 fines | AirQualityNews
Taken from article:
Noisy neighbours could be handed fines of up to £2,500 under plans unveiled by home secretary Theresa May yesterday (May 22) in a bid to tackle anti-social behaviour.
Under the proposed regime the police will be given greater powers to tackle anti-social behaviour including noise nuisance, littering, dog fouling and ‘yobbish’ behaviour.
The plans will condense 19 existing powers into just six new ones. The proposals are detailed in a White Paper published by the Home Office, called ‘Putting Victims First: More Effective Responses to Anti-Social Behaviour’.
Theresa May, Home Secretary, has revealed proposals to tighten laws over noisy neighbours
The White Paper explains that at present noise nuisance falls under the preserve of local authorities, many of whom don’t have out of hours services meaning complaints cannot be tackled immediately. This means that many residents turn to the police to deal with the nuisance. In 2008/09 the police were called out 88,317 times to deal with noise nuisance.
The police, says the Home Office, currently have limited powers to control noise, however the proposed regime would allow them to issue a community protection notice to stop persistent noisy behaviour, rather than simply attending an incident or referring it.
My entire point.... police will attend an Incident.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
Betty Boop
- Posts: 16988
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:17 pm
- Location: The end of the World
Here's a question for you Brits...
oscar;1403473 wrote: Apologies for three posts In a row but at last I have found what I am looking for....
Noisy neighbours could face £2,500 fines | AirQualityNews
Taken from article:
Noisy neighbours could be handed fines of up to £2,500 under plans unveiled by home secretary Theresa May yesterday (May 22) in a bid to tackle anti-social behaviour.
Under the proposed regime the police will be given greater powers to tackle anti-social behaviour including noise nuisance, littering, dog fouling and ‘yobbish’ behaviour.
The plans will condense 19 existing powers into just six new ones. The proposals are detailed in a White Paper published by the Home Office, called ‘Putting Victims First: More Effective Responses to Anti-Social Behaviour’.
Theresa May, Home Secretary, has revealed proposals to tighten laws over noisy neighbours
The White Paper explains that at present noise nuisance falls under the preserve of local authorities, many of whom don’t have out of hours services meaning complaints cannot be tackled immediately. This means that many residents turn to the police to deal with the nuisance. In 2008/09 the police were called out 88,317 times to deal with noise nuisance.
The police, says the Home Office, currently have limited powers to control noise, however the proposed regime would allow them to issue a community protection notice to stop persistent noisy behaviour, rather than simply attending an incident or referring it.
My entire point.... police will attend an Incident.
This proposed regime has been implemented then? If so, brilliant, if not, the council is still currently the way to go.
Noisy neighbours could face £2,500 fines | AirQualityNews
Taken from article:
Noisy neighbours could be handed fines of up to £2,500 under plans unveiled by home secretary Theresa May yesterday (May 22) in a bid to tackle anti-social behaviour.
Under the proposed regime the police will be given greater powers to tackle anti-social behaviour including noise nuisance, littering, dog fouling and ‘yobbish’ behaviour.
The plans will condense 19 existing powers into just six new ones. The proposals are detailed in a White Paper published by the Home Office, called ‘Putting Victims First: More Effective Responses to Anti-Social Behaviour’.
Theresa May, Home Secretary, has revealed proposals to tighten laws over noisy neighbours
The White Paper explains that at present noise nuisance falls under the preserve of local authorities, many of whom don’t have out of hours services meaning complaints cannot be tackled immediately. This means that many residents turn to the police to deal with the nuisance. In 2008/09 the police were called out 88,317 times to deal with noise nuisance.
The police, says the Home Office, currently have limited powers to control noise, however the proposed regime would allow them to issue a community protection notice to stop persistent noisy behaviour, rather than simply attending an incident or referring it.
My entire point.... police will attend an Incident.
This proposed regime has been implemented then? If so, brilliant, if not, the council is still currently the way to go.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Here's a question for you Brits...
Betty Boop;1403482 wrote: This proposed regime has been implemented then? If so, brilliant, if not, the council is still currently the way to go.
I think you missed what I highlighted there...
"The plans will condense 19 existing powers into just six new ones. ".... the point Is, there has already been powers.... the new plans will condense them.
My complaint to the Inspector was that my call was accepted as anti-social behaviour until they realised they were Muslims and then as I said to him, It appeared to be turned on me for daring to object. It was then decided by the controller not to send a unit when police have and do attend noise nuisence If It constitutes ASB and some police forces will just attend noise nuisence full stop If they have the man power.
Come On... I'm 5 houses away from them... the noise kept us awake through double glazed windows... It had to be pretty bad eh? As for the smoke, you be forgiven for thinking that the house was actually on fire... the smoke was dense and acrid.. and It clings to everything..
If It was the first time these people had done this. then Yes, the council would have been the route... It wasn't... they have blighted their Immediate neighbours for a month .
If a group of people are that Inconsiderate, then why should we feel bad for calling the police.
Let's say you were living next door to them Betty and Jowan had breathed In those fumes... let's say the noise had kept you and the kids awake until 4 am 2 to 3 times a week for a month and then three nights ago there was another gathering that kept half the street awake... you'd not call the police to get It stopped after a month of It ? Sorry, I don't believe you.
Every night I am Informed by their Immediate neighbours, they are In the garden making some kind of noise... not always as bad as the large gatherings but general noise... Last night was the first night I'm told today that they stayed In their home all evening and there was peace... may It continue.
I think you missed what I highlighted there...
"The plans will condense 19 existing powers into just six new ones. ".... the point Is, there has already been powers.... the new plans will condense them.
My complaint to the Inspector was that my call was accepted as anti-social behaviour until they realised they were Muslims and then as I said to him, It appeared to be turned on me for daring to object. It was then decided by the controller not to send a unit when police have and do attend noise nuisence If It constitutes ASB and some police forces will just attend noise nuisence full stop If they have the man power.
Come On... I'm 5 houses away from them... the noise kept us awake through double glazed windows... It had to be pretty bad eh? As for the smoke, you be forgiven for thinking that the house was actually on fire... the smoke was dense and acrid.. and It clings to everything..
If It was the first time these people had done this. then Yes, the council would have been the route... It wasn't... they have blighted their Immediate neighbours for a month .
If a group of people are that Inconsiderate, then why should we feel bad for calling the police.
Let's say you were living next door to them Betty and Jowan had breathed In those fumes... let's say the noise had kept you and the kids awake until 4 am 2 to 3 times a week for a month and then three nights ago there was another gathering that kept half the street awake... you'd not call the police to get It stopped after a month of It ? Sorry, I don't believe you.
Every night I am Informed by their Immediate neighbours, they are In the garden making some kind of noise... not always as bad as the large gatherings but general noise... Last night was the first night I'm told today that they stayed In their home all evening and there was peace... may It continue.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Betty Boop
- Posts: 16988
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:17 pm
- Location: The end of the World
Here's a question for you Brits...
oscar;1403494 wrote: I think you missed what I highlighted there...
"The plans will condense 19 existing powers into just six new ones. ".... the point Is, there has already been powers.... the new plans will condense them.
My complaint to the Inspector was that my call was accepted as anti-social behaviour until they realised they were Muslims and then as I said to him, It appeared to be turned on me for daring to object. It was then decided by the controller not to send a unit when police have and do attend noise nuisence If It constitutes ASB and some police forces will just attend noise nuisence full stop If they have the man power.
Come On... I'm 5 houses away from them... the noise kept us awake through double glazed windows... It had to be pretty bad eh? As for the smoke, you be forgiven for thinking that the house was actually on fire... the smoke was dense and acrid.. and It clings to everything..
If It was the first time these people had done this. then Yes, the council would have been the route... It wasn't... they have blighted their Immediate neighbours for a month .
If a group of people are that Inconsiderate, then why should we feel bad for calling the police.
Let's say you were living next door to them Betty and Jowan had breathed In those fumes... let's say the noise had kept you and the kids awake until 4 am 2 to 3 times a week for a month and then three nights ago there was another gathering that kept half the street awake... you'd not call the police to get It stopped after a month of It ? Sorry, I don't believe you.
Every night I am Informed by their Immediate neighbours, they are In the garden making some kind of noise... not always as bad as the large gatherings but general noise... Last night was the first night I'm told today that they stayed In their home all evening and there was peace... may It continue.
I would have called the council after the first week Oscar, then so far we would be three weeks into keeping diaries and the council would have visited and told them what was what. If it continued we'd be three weeks into the procedures required to take action against these people.
"The plans will condense 19 existing powers into just six new ones. ".... the point Is, there has already been powers.... the new plans will condense them.
My complaint to the Inspector was that my call was accepted as anti-social behaviour until they realised they were Muslims and then as I said to him, It appeared to be turned on me for daring to object. It was then decided by the controller not to send a unit when police have and do attend noise nuisence If It constitutes ASB and some police forces will just attend noise nuisence full stop If they have the man power.
Come On... I'm 5 houses away from them... the noise kept us awake through double glazed windows... It had to be pretty bad eh? As for the smoke, you be forgiven for thinking that the house was actually on fire... the smoke was dense and acrid.. and It clings to everything..
If It was the first time these people had done this. then Yes, the council would have been the route... It wasn't... they have blighted their Immediate neighbours for a month .
If a group of people are that Inconsiderate, then why should we feel bad for calling the police.
Let's say you were living next door to them Betty and Jowan had breathed In those fumes... let's say the noise had kept you and the kids awake until 4 am 2 to 3 times a week for a month and then three nights ago there was another gathering that kept half the street awake... you'd not call the police to get It stopped after a month of It ? Sorry, I don't believe you.
Every night I am Informed by their Immediate neighbours, they are In the garden making some kind of noise... not always as bad as the large gatherings but general noise... Last night was the first night I'm told today that they stayed In their home all evening and there was peace... may It continue.
I would have called the council after the first week Oscar, then so far we would be three weeks into keeping diaries and the council would have visited and told them what was what. If it continued we'd be three weeks into the procedures required to take action against these people.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Here's a question for you Brits...
Betty Boop;1403496 wrote: I would have called the council after the first week Oscar, then so far we would be three weeks into keeping diaries and the council would have visited and told them what was what. If it continued we'd be three weeks into the procedures required to take action against these people. I agree with you Betty but until three nights ago, I myself personally was not affected. I knew other residents had been badly affected but I couldn't poke my nose In because I had not been affected.
The most affected was the single Mum but she's Indonesian and had little knowledge of where else to go except for the police... same with the old lady. Not all people think the same and some of the public Immediately think of the police when they need help.
I have offered to help the single Mum with filling out the log she needs to record future Incidents and I've got the same forms being sent to the old lady today... hopefully, after the first entirely peaceful night last night, It has already been resolved.
The most affected was the single Mum but she's Indonesian and had little knowledge of where else to go except for the police... same with the old lady. Not all people think the same and some of the public Immediately think of the police when they need help.
I have offered to help the single Mum with filling out the log she needs to record future Incidents and I've got the same forms being sent to the old lady today... hopefully, after the first entirely peaceful night last night, It has already been resolved.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon