9/11 Well Wishes For Americans

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:31 pm

I figured I'd not cause any more of an uproar in the "We'll Never Forget" thread because I doubt this perspective is welcomed there. Hence this thread.

WARNING: For those individuals who cannot understand or consider alternative discussions on subjects, you're probably wasting your time reading beyond this point.

So, I don't get it! Why are people extending their condolences to me for the events of 9/11? I didn't suffer any personal loss due to the event. I feel as bad for those who did lose loved ones on that day and it just seems to me that extending sorrow in my direction is displaced. I'm uncomfortable with it.

If the reason people offer their regrets is because 9/11 happened in my country, again, I say that's like saying that I'm being comforted for the house down the block burning down and family members there not surviving. It makes no sense to me.

If the reason that people extend regret to us living Americans is because some of our fellow Americans lost their lives on that day, I say accepting those regrets is selfish on my part and it's delusional as well. Us Americans spend so much time deriding one another it's more of an insult than anything else in some ways.

As i type this our two political parties are falsely accusing each other of lying, cheating, hating and so on; many of our religious leaders are devising ways of excluding gays and other minority group members from enjoying what life may offer them and damning them to hell; the people whose education we provide are finding themselves captive to job offers that are merely schemes to separate us from that money we toiled so hard to connive out of others for the purpose of abiding in our homes built for denial.

So someone please tell me, why are you extending regret in my direction if not for some self-serving reasons of your own?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:37 pm

The first line of mt thread was:

To my American friends:

The emphasis on the word Friends

Why are you taking It so personally ? If you don't like the message then Ignore It.

I think this thread has an ulterior motive, spoiling for a fight.... sorry.... not playing your games.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:53 pm

OK I shall bite...........

Amazingly Ahso! I am of roughly the same opinion as you, the basic difference being I believe anyone with any sensibilities will allow others to show their feelings as they will..........if those spoken feelings are not in line with my own, I will keep silent.

We all come into the world covered in mucous and ignorant, from then until we die it is just a stumbling journey of learning and discovery, the least we can do is learn not to insult others heart felt feelings.

Choosing when to talk is as important as what you say.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:00 pm

Bruv;1403748 wrote: allow others to show their feelings as they will.........And what feelings are being expressed? Do they have a name?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:11 pm

Ahso!;1403750 wrote: And what feelings are being expressed? Do they have a name? Let me try and explain something here Ahso that you may not be fully aware of....

Whilst, yes, this Is a forum and you yourself may not forge friendships beyond a forum where you post, this forum has always been very much a community.

Most of us are together on Facebook also.. Some of us laugh and chat with each other every other day.

For example... I wrote In a thread here only a few days to Kathy Ellen that my husband says he will never forget her kindness and generosity..... now that should tell you something...

Some of us even talk on the phone between England and America.... some of us exchange Christmas gifts..... but you have never been privy to that. Why should you be ?

So you are unaware of the facts surrounding what I meant by ' Friends'... I posted my thread because I know my 'friends' well enough to know that some of them were personally affected by 9/11 and some not affected, were just deeply traumatised by the events.

I was making a thread for my friends. If you didn't like It, then what I say to my 'friends' Is none of your damn business....You do not get to question me because I happen to feel for the American 'friends' who I know were affected by It.

The thread was also an opportunity for anyone else here to post their feelings on the anniversary as AFTR did with her lovely childs poem....

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:22 pm

We should just revive one of the many threads created on this subject each year, spot always has something interesting to say.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:11 pm

ahso started his own thread so he wouldn't disrupt oscars. I expect the same courtesy be shown him. He wrote a warning before he wrote his post so, if you don't like it... he suggested you bugger off.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:14 pm

Now then,... I think the annoyance factor on people wanting to condole and sympathize with Americans, as a collective group, over the 9/11 incident has a few layers for those who feel annoyed.

For me, I'd like to see a larger sympathy go out simultaneously to all the Iraqis and Afghanis who lost far more people because of these events and who also had nothing to do with the attacks. To not express a sympathy for the entire sequence of events seems deeply wrong.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:20 pm

koan;1403755 wrote: Now then,... I think the annoyance factor on people wanting to condole and sympathize with Americans, as a collective group, over the 9/11 incident has a few layers for those who feel annoyed.

For me, I'd like to see a larger sympathy go out simultaneously to all the Iraqis and Afghanis who lost far more people because of these events and who also had nothing to do with the attacks. To not express a sympathy for the entire sequence of events seems deeply wrong. Yes Koan and we could add the Kuwaiti's who died when Saddam's forces Invaded Kuwait. We could ad the London tube bombings. We could add the victims of the Bali bombings and we could list the victims of the Vietnam and Korean war also.... my thread was for the anniversary of 9/11 with the emphasis on 9/11. Ot didn't you get the 'anniversary 'part ?

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:38 pm

oscar;1403756 wrote: Yes Koan and we could add the Kuwaiti's who died when Saddam's forces Invaded Kuwait. We could ad the London tube bombings. We could add the victims of the Bali bombings and we could list the victims of the Vietnam and Korean war also.... my thread was for the anniversary of 9/11 with the emphasis on 9/11. Ot didn't you get the 'anniversary 'part ?
Why would we list the others? They aren't connected. Afghanistan and Iraq are completely linked to 9/11. 9/11 was used to justify the attacks on both those nations even though they were not connected to the WTC at all. In any way.

Kuwait and every other invasion you might come up with might have another anniversary date but all the Iraqis and Afghanis who died in the attacks subsequent to 9/11 are also victims of the WTC attacks.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:41 pm

I suppose we can also add the list of Guatanamo Bay detainees and others who have been arrested and/or tortured under the Homeland Security measures. Oh, and the Pakistanis killed by drone strikes as most of them are related to the 9/11 strike back plan.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:54 pm

One thought:

It was the events of 9/11 that forever changed the course of American foreign policy, and led to the US sending troops to Afghanistan, and then to Iraq, spending enormous percentages of our GNP on the thing. It also led to the current security policies and excuses for taking away the civil rights of people all over the world.

The last decade has been a fiscal disaster, nearly comparable to the stock market crash of '29.

It will always be a scar on our collective faces.

For that reason, I will accept, on behalf of America, any and all offers of sympathy from our friends abroad.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:12 pm

LarsMac;1403760 wrote: One thought:

It was the events of 9/11 that forever changed the course of American foreign policy, and led to the US sending troops to Afghanistan, and then to Iraq, spending enormous percentages of our GNP on the thing. It also led to the current security policies and excuses for taking away the civil rights of people all over the world.

The last decade has been a fiscal disaster, nearly comparable to the stock market crash of '29.

It will always be a scar on our collective faces.

For that reason, I will accept, on behalf of America, any and all offers of sympathy from our friends abroad.I was wondering if anyone would bring this up. It was intentional on my part to leave it off.

Now, if I've got you right, what you're saying is that the sympathy is due to the fact that the events of 9/11 pushed us into a less free state of existence due to the overreacting and overreaching tendencies of our political leaders and military (I'd also include corporate America in that group as well)?

That's different than what I said in the OP and may be a more valid reason to accept the sympathy. I do doubt though that that is what most Americans are aware of. I'd be willing to bet the motives are more on the self-righteous plane.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:23 pm

I still don't see how people can accept sympathy without an ounce of guilt. Though most Americans haven't personally killed anyone as a result of their trauma, many more thousands of innocent people have died as a result of the collective anger. General sympathy should include the countries of Iraq and Afghanistan or not be given at all. Sympathy directed solely at the US should be specified as sympathy for the day they lost many of their chartered rights.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:27 pm

koan;1403762 wrote: I still don't see how people can accept sympathy without an ounce of guilt. Though most Americans haven't personally killed anyone as a result of their trauma, many more thousands of innocent people have died as a result of the collective anger. General sympathy should include the countries of Iraq and Afghanistan or not be given at all. Sympathy directed solely at the US should be specified as sympathy for the day they lost many of their chartered rights.Completely agree.

It's too bad it has to be at all.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:32 pm

As a Canadian, I feel guilt whenever 9/11 is mentioned because our troops participated in Afghanistan and are still there. I amplify in my mind what I expect Americans would feel because they have the even bigger disgrace of Iraq to cope with as well.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:42 pm

koan;1403765 wrote: As a Canadian, I feel guilt whenever 9/11 is mentioned because our troops participated in Afghanistan and are still there. I amplify in my mind what I expect Americans would feel because they have the even bigger disgrace of Iraq to cope with as well.To go along with that - the disgrace of whatever it was that caused those suicide bombers to do what they did, to themselves, their families, their religion and to the lives lost that day and the people who have had to endure life afterwards.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:00 pm

koan;1403762 wrote: I still don't see how people can accept sympathy without an ounce of guilt. Though most Americans haven't personally killed anyone as a result of their trauma, many more thousands of innocent people have died as a result of the collective anger. General sympathy should include the countries of Iraq and Afghanistan or not be given at all. Sympathy directed solely at the US should be specified as sympathy for the day they lost many of their chartered rights.

I certainly don't live without guilt over what we have done in the past decade.

IF we are talking about the entire decade following the even, then it is a whole different thing. If we are talking about the trigger event of that particular day, for that, I can justify the sympathy.

It was a horrible event that changes lives across the country, bashing the corporate psyche of a whole nation.

I am not saying that perhaps we didn't have it coming, but it still was an incredibly painful experience, for most, of not all of us.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:13 pm

LarsMac;1403770 wrote: ...but it still was an incredibly painful experience, for most, of not all of us.I think you're overstating. Ya know, I've spoken to a lot of people over the years about this subject and I just don't get that from what's been conveyed to me. My wife and kids also see it as I do too. In not too long from now it will be strictly history and almost any feelings whatsoever directly associated with that date will have dissipated.

For me on that particular day 9/11/2001 I was so involved with caring for my 90+ year old mother's needs that it was a non-event and I come from NY and no doubt had people I had been acquainted with through out my life in Manhattan that day.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:23 pm

I also think that sympathy is due for closed cases of victimhood and I'm far from believing this case is closed.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:49 pm

Ahso!;1403774 wrote: I think you're overstating. Ya know, I've spoken to a lot of people over the years about this subject and I just don't get that from what's been conveyed to me. My wife and kids also see it as I do too. In not too long from now it will be strictly history and almost any feelings whatsoever directly associated with that date will have dissipated.

For me on that particular day 9/11/2001 I was so involved with caring for my 90+ year old mother's needs that it was a non-event and I come from NY and no doubt had people I had been acquainted with through out my life in Manhattan that day.

Well, I was a bit more involved, even though I was focused on trying to help my father deal with terminal cancer. I had a friend at the Pentagon, and I was directly associated with people who lost family members. I worked with people who stood by helplessly watching the whole thing from directly across the Hudson.

I had friends stuck in the Lower Manhattan overnight.

My wife and her sisters were in DC, and saw the plane that hit Pentagon.

I spent the next several months working with several of my customer accounts to recover data and rebuild data centers, and then even more working on new disaster recovery plans.

So, perhaps me and many of the people in my circle felt more of an impact than did you and yours.

You were relatively fortunate.

I suspect as long as people live who remember the day, it will remain more than just "Strictly history"

But even the holocaust will one day become lost in the history books when the last of those who were alive in those days pass on.

Human memory is rather fickle,actually.

The effects of the event, though, will linger.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:52 pm

op:

"So, I don't get it! Why are people extending their condolences to me for the events of 9/11? I didn't suffer any personal loss due to the event. I feel as bad for those who did lose loved ones on that day and it just seems to me that extending sorrow in my direction is displaced. I'm uncomfortable with it.

"So someone please tell me, why are you extending regret in my direction if not for some self-serving reasons of your own?"

I lost the Twin Towers. I know people who know people who died. I know a young man at Stuyvesant H.S., near the Towers, who was definitely hurt as he watched people jump from the Towers to their deaths. He had just lost his own dad to cancer, only 2 weeks before. I'm not ashamed to say I loved the Towers. My dad, deceased, loved NYC & avidly loved the Towers. He & I were among the first, after they were built, to enter into those buildings. King Kong died from the Towers! Phillipe Petit crossed the Towers on a tightrope. I loved those Towers. My friend, who crossed the Brooklyn Bridge afterwards, was on the last train to stop at the station..............she left the station to see the first Tower hit. She had intended to shop there before work, but was late. So glad she was late that morning.

For me, it was an attack on NYC, not the U.S. I remember when the country "mourned", I said to my son "these people HATE NYC". And so many states, many people don't like us. Drop dead NY is what they usually say. Drop dead NY when they see our liberalism, our acceptance of all lifestyles. So many Americans, when they think of us, really don't like us. NY is the city my dad loved. When we had visitors in, & he would take them around, I was astounded to learn how much he knew of the history of NYC. When the Towers were hit, I felt he died again. He loved the Towers! He loved NY!

I was living in Massachusetts on 9/11/'01. I was listening to Howard Stern. I had the TV on, no sound. As Howard spoke, I watched. He stayed on air for most of the day. I felt he got me through it. He narrated as I watched. The days following, no air traffic. Amazing how much background noise was lost. The silence. Deafening.

I want to know, ahso, why you think oscar, etc. have "some self-serving reasons of your own". What does that mean? What REASONS that are "self-serving" could anyone have?

I do understand that you may not be closely attached to those events. It was an attack on NY, the judenstaat of America.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:04 pm

AnneBoleyn;1403778 wrote: have "some self-serving reasons of your own". What does that mean? What REASONS that are "self-serving" could anyone have?I said that because, regardless of what we like to trick ourselves into thinking, everything we do is self-serving. That's the nature of life.

Thanks for sharing your story.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:05 pm

LarsMac;1403777 wrote: Well, I was a bit more involved, even though I was focused on trying to help my father deal with terminal cancer. I had a friend at the Pentagon, and I was directly associated with people who lost family members. I worked with people who stood by helplessly watching the whole thing from directly across the Hudson.

I had friends stuck in the Lower Manhattan overnight.

My wife and her sisters were in DC, and saw the plane that hit Pentagon.

I spent the next several months working with several of my customer accounts to recover data and rebuild data centers, and then even more working on new disaster recovery plans.

So, perhaps me and many of the people in my circle felt more of an impact than did you and yours.

You were relatively fortunate.

I suspect as long as people live who remember the day, it will remain more than just "Strictly history"

But even the holocaust will one day become lost in the history books when the last of those who were alive in those days pass on.

Human memory is rather fickle,actually.

The effects of the event, though, will linger.Thanks for sharing that, LM.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:10 pm

Bad explanation, ahso. I don't believe in altruism either, but I see no gain in others offering sympathy. Yes, most (if not all) of what we do is for ourselves, but honestly I fail to see a motive other than benign.

I had more to say but forgot as I was typing! Must be past my bedtime.

Ahso! I hate your new avatar!

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:15 pm

AnneBoleyn;1403783 wrote: Bad explanation, ahso. I don't believe in altruism either, but I see no gain in others offering sympathy. Yes, most (if not all) of what we do is for ourselves, but honestly I fail to see a motive other than benign. It's actually an excellent explanation, you just don't understand it.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:24 pm

Ahso!;1403784 wrote: It's actually an excellent explanation, you just don't understand it.

Okay. Help me understand.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:25 pm

Expiation of guilt is one of the most difficult subjects I've tried to study. I'm still not sure I get it but I know it is real.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:27 pm

Sometimes we get a good feeling for saying or doing something nice.

So we do things to get that good feeling.

Self-serving.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:30 pm

Thanks LM. ahso acts like it's a crime!

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:32 pm

I don't perceive that he did. He expressed discomfort at receiving sympathy. Makes perfect sense to me.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:32 pm

LarsMac;1403791 wrote: Sometimes we get a good feeling for saying or doing something nice.

So we do things to get that good feeling.

Self-serving.

:)For the sake of doing my part for peace, that'll do. Thanks, LM.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:36 pm

When I first joined, ahso, your avatar was a chimp, I think it was. I really liked that. Boner gives me gas.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:37 pm

AnneBoleyn;1403794 wrote: Thanks LM. ahso acts like it's a crime!Not quite, Anne. Your emotional state is telling you that for whatever reason, but you cannot, from where the two of us are logistically at the moment, observe my actions, nor can you read my mind. It's most helpful to stick with what's actually posted and not apply emotional filters. I know that's easier said than done, but it's key.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:38 pm

AnneBoleyn;1403799 wrote: When I first joined, ahso, your avatar was a chimp, I think it was. I really liked that. Boner gives me gas.He crys about everything I post for some reason.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:43 pm

Yeah, he's a Big Baby!

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:45 pm

Ahso!;1403800 wrote: Not quite, Anne. Your emotional state is telling you that for whatever reason, but you cannot, from where the two of us are logistically at the moment, observe my actions, nor can you read my mind. It's most helpful to stick with what's actually posted and not apply emotional filters. I know that's easier said than done, but it's key.

I'm tired. I don't want to get cranky! & I'm glad I can't read your mind! I've got troubles enough reading my own!

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:21 am

Interesting that we can have a thread suggesting that we 'celebrate' Hiroshima day but when a thread is started to remember 9/11, the usual bile starts spewing about America and Americans. No wonder this forum is a ****ing wasteland.

Post by **spot** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:43 am

SnoozeAgain;1403817 wrote: Interesting that we can have a thread suggesting that we 'celebrate' Hiroshima day but when a thread is started to remember 9/11, the usual bile starts spewing about America and Americans. No wonder this forum is a ****ing wasteland.Ah. I wondered whether anyone would answer AB's question. Well done, bang on the money there. To save anyone from having to trawl back, it wasI want to know, ahso, why you think oscar, etc. have "some self-serving reasons of your own". What does that mean? What REASONS that are "self-serving" could anyone have?As she said, "Most of us are together on Facebook also.. Some of us laugh and chat with each other every other day". Expressing sympathy is one thing, making a public thread on a contentious matter by expressing sympathy is another.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:31 am

I think everyone was affected by 9/11 In some way.... Those who didn't lose a loved one were just as affected by the shock of the largest atrocity In peace time.

My brother's brother-In law lost a member of his wife's family In the twin towers.... I bet every family Is Indirectly related or knew of someone who knew someone who lost that day.

How some people are affected by that day speaks volumes about people. Put It this way, I'd rather be locked In a room with people who genuinely cared for the loss of life and the effect It had world wide than people who want to examine the politics of It.

Although not on the same scale, I remember the London Tube Bombings and how I still feel to this day about them. On the day I cried, I was angry and went through all sorts of emotions because my people, Innocent people had been attacked so why Is It questionable that I have empathy for others across the Atlantic? I have visited Ground Zero...I've seen the children still pinning pictures of their parents to the memorial....

All human life Is different. We all think differently. What effects some, may not effect others. What you may turn a blind eye to, I may shed tears. What I couldn't give a toss about, you may weep for. No-one has the right to question and ridicule any other human being for happening to still be affected by an event that changed the world and It's politics.

ETA.... New threads have been few here again and the amount of members has dropped. What Is glaringly obvious Is that some people who have not posted regually, only come out to post In order to attack. Like old mongrel dogs sniffing round butts for a scent of trouble.

Since 9/11, there has been a new thread posted every year by various members on the anniversary. Most have ended up In the compost bin because they turned Into a farce... but this Is a new one. This time, after 11 years, It is the actual member of the anniversary thread that is being attacked, not Bush foreign policy. So rather than my being self serving, maybe the people who are so ready to attack are the self servers...looking to satisfy some desire In themselves that their lives must exist only If they are attacking someone else.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:12 am

Yeah, it's weird how every year a simple thread expressing grief and sympathy gets perverted and warped. I remember the first time it happened, many of the members were outraged and many no longer post here. Some lessons never seem to be learned.

In any case, I appreciate you starting the thread Oscar.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:24 am

oscar;1403835 wrote: Put It this way, I'd rather be locked In a room with people who genuinely cared for the loss of life and the effect It had world wide than people who want to examine the politics of It.

While the thought of being locked in a room with you fills me with abject terror, I agree totally with you.

Of course there are aspects of this event that should be examined, politics and all but the very thought that this dialogue would be at the expense of the memory of the day and the people involved, just baffles me.

I too, fail to understand why any sort of respect for the events of 9/11 is met with cynical calls of self serving. Who cares if it is. Good deeds and charity donations would dwindle to nothing if the act didn't make us feel good about it. We do it for the right reasons and feel right about doing it. Nothing wrong about feeling satisfied about doing good.

It's perfectly natural.

So is showing empathy with a Nation that suffered a great loss

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:31 am

Snowfire;1403840 wrote: While the thought of being locked in a room with you fills me with abject terror, I agree totally with you.

Of course there are aspects of this event that should be examined, politics and all but the very thought that this dialogue would be at the expense of the memory of the day and the people involved, just baffles me.

I too, fail to understand why any sort of respect for the events of 9/11 is met with cynical calls of self serving. Who cares if it is. Good deeds and charity donations would dwindle to nothing if the act didn't make us feel good about it. We do it for the right reasons and feel right about doing it. Nothing wrong about feeling satisfied about doing good.

It's perfectly natural.

So is showing empathy with a Nation that suffered a great loss

:wah:

I defy anyone to visit Ground Zero and not be over-come by the serenity of It all.

We talked to a lot of people that day and I'll always be thinking of them and their loss... If some think I'm self serving, then let them carry on In their own bitter little worlds...

We have all examined the politics of It... In fact, It was In part due to the London bombings that I changed my politics. There Is a time and a place to examine the politics of 9/11.... not on the anniversary and In a deliberate attempt to trash the feelings of others who happened to be deeply moved by It on that day. There was alo British people who lost their lives In the Twin Towers.

What Is self serving Is those here over the past 11 years who have trashed 9/11 anniversary threads and the desire to critise the poster who has posted this years. It speaks volumes that In 11 years, those people would still rather bait, flame and agitate than let the people who were affected just get on with It.

Post by **spot** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:51 am

SnoozeAgain;1403839 wrote: Yeah, it's weird how every year a simple thread expressing grief and sympathy gets perverted and warped. This year it was pretty confused before it even set sail, unless we now have four anniversaries to watch out for. I only posted in in surprise at the oddity of what was being said.

Tuesday snooze, there's still time to get it right before the day arrives.

Post by **spot** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:53 am

Snowfire;1403840 wrote: So is showing empathy with a Nation that suffered a great lossThat's the nation whose leader said "bring it on", if I recall.

As Ahso says, grieve for the Iraqis and Afghans, they're the innocent victims in all this.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:07 am

spot;1403844 wrote: That's the nation whose leader said "bring it on", if I recall.

As Ahso says, grieve for the Iraqis and Afghans, they're the innocent victims in all this.

I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't grieve for all that lost their lives in the unnecessary wars.

The object of these threads is specifically for the events of 9/11. The tone of your post "...they're the innocent victims" , suggests you dont regard the 9/11 victims as such. Despite many unanswered questions and uncertainties in respect of that day, I do.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:08 am

spot;1403844 wrote: That's the nation whose leader said "bring it on", if I recall.

As Ahso says, grieve for the Iraqis and Afghans, they're the innocent victims in all this.

If the leader defines the nation then, "grieve for the Iraqis and Afghans, they're the innocent victims in all this." is incorrect.

They were no more innocent than the Americans.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:20 am

LarsMac;1403846 wrote: If the leader defines the nation then, "grieve for the Iraqis and Afghans, they're the innocent victims in all this." is incorrect.

They were no more innocent than the Americans.

I can understand anger at foreign policy. I can understand that some choose to look to the politics on the anniversary of 9/11. I can even understand those who think of the Iraqi' and Afghan losses. I was totally against the Invasion of both.... but the people who died In the twin towers were not part of the Government... they were ordinary people and Innocent people. There was loss of life from other nations other than the USA. British people were killed, Japanese people were killed etc etc etc... people who were not part of the Bush administration.

My thread was to remember the people who lost their lives on that day and the devastation caused to so many....and to the friends I know who were affected by It.

What Is apparent to all by this garbage of a thread, Is the desire to attack another member Is greater than any respect for the member actually affected by that day........

sniff sniff

Post by **spot** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:23 am

Snowfire;1403845 wrote: The object of these threads is specifically for the events of 9/11.Not this one. I checked. I try hard not to go into the others though I sometimes fail. This, on the other hand, is still on topic.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:26 am

spot;1403850 wrote: Not this one. I checked. I try hard not to go into the others though I sometimes fail. This, on the other hand, is still on topic.

By definition it is. This thread was as a direct response to such accusations as "self serving" Its evolved as part of the defence of those accusations. It's natural that it would do so