In the thread about the media, I mentioned Breed Specific Legislation and the role that the media plays in the reputation of the Pit Bull. Shortly thereafter, I got a pm telling me that I should post something about BSL and pit bulls to help educate and dispell some myths.
Well, I spent an hour last night typing up a post when it occured to me that, as a newer member, I have no idea how many of the regulars here are involved in the "dog world" in any way, shape or form.
So instead, let's make it a question and answer type of deal. I'll ask you my question and we can take it from there. Feel free to ask your question, if you have one.
And just so everyone knows, I don't own a pit bull. Until March of this year I was the proud owner of a lovely rottweiler and she is the reason that I am so passionate about BSL.
So, my question is this - Do Pit Bull Bans Work?
The Pit Bull Question
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
The Pit Bull Question
Sandi
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
The Pit Bull Question
I think a ban of stereotypical pit bull owners would be more effective.
I'm a golden retriever/collie fan myself. I've had nothing but positive experiences with rotties and dobermans. My only experience with pits is passing them on the street. I find it a little eerie that they are not even curious about strangers. I had a neighbor who played with his dog in his unfenced front yard (very small). I walked by on the sidewalk several times. The dog never paid any attention to me at all. I would expect a glance, a growl, something.
I'm a golden retriever/collie fan myself. I've had nothing but positive experiences with rotties and dobermans. My only experience with pits is passing them on the street. I find it a little eerie that they are not even curious about strangers. I had a neighbor who played with his dog in his unfenced front yard (very small). I walked by on the sidewalk several times. The dog never paid any attention to me at all. I would expect a glance, a growl, something.
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nvalleyvee
- Posts: 5191
- Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:57 am
The Pit Bull Question
Accountable wrote: I think a ban of stereotypical pit bull owners would be more effective
I agree!!!
I agree!!!
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
The Pit Bull Question
Lilac, I have been a dog lover since I was in the womb, and I've worked in animal medicine and obedience training and behavior for years. There's a few of us here with some knowledge of dogs.
Do pit bull bans work? No, not any more than gun bans do.
Here in Detroit we have one of the highest concentrations of pit bull population, and a huge majority of these dogs are used for illegal fights. Watch "Animal Cops, Detroit" on Animal Planet and see just how many episodes show the agents seizing fighting dogs, breaking up fighting rings and rescuing "bait" dogs, etc.
It is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to own a pit bull in the city of Detroit. Does that stop them? No, of course not. There's around 12 animal cruelty agents that work for the ASPCA for the entire area. With a pit bull population over 1,000,000, they sure can't keep track of them all.
I'd be interested to see numbers of breeders in the area, as well. Since so many of them don't actually have a clue what they are doing, and are not reputable, registered breeders I doubt we could ever get an accurate count.
The pit bull problem does not lie with the dogs, it lies with the owners, and the "breeders."
I have to agree with Accountable, ban the ignorant owners. Pit bulls can be great dogs and pets if they are bred and handled properly. Far too many people think, "Ooo, I want a 'tough' dog, so I'm gonna get a pit bull." with no thought for the correct handling.
Do pit bull bans work? No, not any more than gun bans do.
Here in Detroit we have one of the highest concentrations of pit bull population, and a huge majority of these dogs are used for illegal fights. Watch "Animal Cops, Detroit" on Animal Planet and see just how many episodes show the agents seizing fighting dogs, breaking up fighting rings and rescuing "bait" dogs, etc.
It is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to own a pit bull in the city of Detroit. Does that stop them? No, of course not. There's around 12 animal cruelty agents that work for the ASPCA for the entire area. With a pit bull population over 1,000,000, they sure can't keep track of them all.
I'd be interested to see numbers of breeders in the area, as well. Since so many of them don't actually have a clue what they are doing, and are not reputable, registered breeders I doubt we could ever get an accurate count.
The pit bull problem does not lie with the dogs, it lies with the owners, and the "breeders."
I have to agree with Accountable, ban the ignorant owners. Pit bulls can be great dogs and pets if they are bred and handled properly. Far too many people think, "Ooo, I want a 'tough' dog, so I'm gonna get a pit bull." with no thought for the correct handling.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
The Pit Bull Question
flopstock wrote:
I think it's how the pups are raised and trained rather then the breed so much. Although some dogs can be so over bred that they seem like they need meds to me... mostly see it in the miniature things, though. But that's just opinion, not basing it on anything...
Actually, you're right, Flop. Lots of people think that if they have a male and a female dog, they have what it takes to be a breeder. True, good, reputable breeders are in the business for the betterment of the breed, not the money the pups bring them. In fact, every knowledgeable, honest breeder that I have ever had contact with requires a "neuter deposit" with every pet quality puppy they sell. You give the breeder an extra hundred bucks when you buy the pup and when you have the dog neutered, you bring in proof, and get your hundred bucks back.
I think it's how the pups are raised and trained rather then the breed so much. Although some dogs can be so over bred that they seem like they need meds to me... mostly see it in the miniature things, though. But that's just opinion, not basing it on anything...
Actually, you're right, Flop. Lots of people think that if they have a male and a female dog, they have what it takes to be a breeder. True, good, reputable breeders are in the business for the betterment of the breed, not the money the pups bring them. In fact, every knowledgeable, honest breeder that I have ever had contact with requires a "neuter deposit" with every pet quality puppy they sell. You give the breeder an extra hundred bucks when you buy the pup and when you have the dog neutered, you bring in proof, and get your hundred bucks back.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
The Pit Bull Question
I for one would love to read whatever you wrote up in your 'potential' post.
I am, at heart, a cat person (we have two). However, laugh if you will, we now have living with us three, yes 3, dogs, which all would most likely fall under this BSL.
The first that entered our home is a rottweiler mix. He came as a puppy (I thought he was full grown). We were out at small bar/restaurant and one of the waiters was going around asking if someone would take him cause he didn't want him to have to go to a pound. Youngest daughter begged for him. Promised us the moon if we would let her have him. Drinking as I was, the nod my husband gave me I interpted as saying "okay - let's have a puppy". It wasn't till afterwards that he explained, that nod was "you handle it". So much for sign language. Draco is the most loving non-aggressive animal you could have. He thinks he is a lap dog and still trys to climb onto my husbands lap. At 85 pounds now he must just lay across him.
Though he was "our daughters dog", when she left home , my husband would not allow her to take Draco. Told her she wouldn't be able to take care of him -- and the dog was staying!
Now, a little more than 3 years later, daughter (and her 15-month old son) has returned home (finally). She now asks to bring 2 dogs with her......... A female dingo (Carolina Dog) which is hers by the name of Lexus and a female Brindell Pit Bull named Maggie, which is her ex's. LOL
Visits to my daughter allowed me to meet and get to know these dogs so I knew how well trained both dogs are and I saw how good they were with the baby. So, I again, "okayed' both coming home with her and the baby.
My reasons were several. I did not want anything to jepardize our daughter returning home. Daughter greatly loved them. They were a set. Ex wouldn't care "properly" (as I see "properly") for them. AND if he would give Maggie away, she could have easily ended up in a Florida ghetto fighting environment as "bait". I could not let this happen. I also called City Hall here in Willoughby and checked if there was any restrictions on Pits -- there is none here.
We were very blessed that all has gone well in introducing Draco to the girls. Not that we did not have some problems with the girls when they first arrived. Seems if we were not there to open a door for them to chase the squirrels, a closed screen door did not hold them ............... but these are tales for another time.
When daughter walks Draco and the girls, they are a magnificent sight. They are lined up, big to small (Draco: 85 lbs, Maggie: 63 lbs and Lexus: 38 lbs). They love their walks and behave very well. Yes, daughter carries a plastic bag. We do not inflict our animals leavings on neighbors.
We truely have 2 dogs too many, but this won't be forever. We have a busy household, but everyone is finding their space and it's all working out.
When daugher left home, I mourned greatly over our empty nest.
Now that I am adjusted to this and have moved on with MY life --- She returns (with interest)
You can laugh,
but I AM a very happy Grandma!
I am, at heart, a cat person (we have two). However, laugh if you will, we now have living with us three, yes 3, dogs, which all would most likely fall under this BSL.
The first that entered our home is a rottweiler mix. He came as a puppy (I thought he was full grown). We were out at small bar/restaurant and one of the waiters was going around asking if someone would take him cause he didn't want him to have to go to a pound. Youngest daughter begged for him. Promised us the moon if we would let her have him. Drinking as I was, the nod my husband gave me I interpted as saying "okay - let's have a puppy". It wasn't till afterwards that he explained, that nod was "you handle it". So much for sign language. Draco is the most loving non-aggressive animal you could have. He thinks he is a lap dog and still trys to climb onto my husbands lap. At 85 pounds now he must just lay across him.
Though he was "our daughters dog", when she left home , my husband would not allow her to take Draco. Told her she wouldn't be able to take care of him -- and the dog was staying!
Now, a little more than 3 years later, daughter (and her 15-month old son) has returned home (finally). She now asks to bring 2 dogs with her......... A female dingo (Carolina Dog) which is hers by the name of Lexus and a female Brindell Pit Bull named Maggie, which is her ex's. LOL
Visits to my daughter allowed me to meet and get to know these dogs so I knew how well trained both dogs are and I saw how good they were with the baby. So, I again, "okayed' both coming home with her and the baby.
My reasons were several. I did not want anything to jepardize our daughter returning home. Daughter greatly loved them. They were a set. Ex wouldn't care "properly" (as I see "properly") for them. AND if he would give Maggie away, she could have easily ended up in a Florida ghetto fighting environment as "bait". I could not let this happen. I also called City Hall here in Willoughby and checked if there was any restrictions on Pits -- there is none here.
We were very blessed that all has gone well in introducing Draco to the girls. Not that we did not have some problems with the girls when they first arrived. Seems if we were not there to open a door for them to chase the squirrels, a closed screen door did not hold them ............... but these are tales for another time.
When daughter walks Draco and the girls, they are a magnificent sight. They are lined up, big to small (Draco: 85 lbs, Maggie: 63 lbs and Lexus: 38 lbs). They love their walks and behave very well. Yes, daughter carries a plastic bag. We do not inflict our animals leavings on neighbors.
We truely have 2 dogs too many, but this won't be forever. We have a busy household, but everyone is finding their space and it's all working out.
When daugher left home, I mourned greatly over our empty nest.
Now that I am adjusted to this and have moved on with MY life --- She returns (with interest)
You can laugh,
but I AM a very happy Grandma!
-
LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
The Pit Bull Question
Far Rider wrote: Im very sorry to say that the pitts have made their way into other countries, many of my buds on drug enforcement teams have to kill them to enter and sieze drug labs and warehouses.
Me personally, I dont trust them, partly because of reputation in the media, partly because of my experince with the breed. Partly cause in not willing to risk the lives of my children to find out.
Not very PC of me, but thats my opinion.
Well, the first paragraph pretty much sums up the ownership issue, doesn't it.
I don't trust any dog running loose be it a pit bull or a jack russel terrier. And to be frank, I am not a pit bull person - I much prefer rottweilers and German Shepherds. BUT - if I was a pit bull person, I would use the same care in finding a pup or adult rescue that I would use finding a rottweiler puppy or rescue and feel safe enough in my knowledge of dogs and dog training to know that my children are safe.
BTW - it is equally important to teach your children to be dog safe as it is to teach your dog to be kid safe.
And everyone is entitled to their opinion, especially here in the Garden!
Me personally, I dont trust them, partly because of reputation in the media, partly because of my experince with the breed. Partly cause in not willing to risk the lives of my children to find out.
Not very PC of me, but thats my opinion.
Well, the first paragraph pretty much sums up the ownership issue, doesn't it.
I don't trust any dog running loose be it a pit bull or a jack russel terrier. And to be frank, I am not a pit bull person - I much prefer rottweilers and German Shepherds. BUT - if I was a pit bull person, I would use the same care in finding a pup or adult rescue that I would use finding a rottweiler puppy or rescue and feel safe enough in my knowledge of dogs and dog training to know that my children are safe.
BTW - it is equally important to teach your children to be dog safe as it is to teach your dog to be kid safe.
And everyone is entitled to their opinion, especially here in the Garden!
Sandi
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
The Pit Bull Question
I for one would love to read whatever you wrote up in your 'potential' post.
LOL! No, you probably don't. I wrote it at 2 am and not only was I rambling, but by the time I was half done, it didn't make much sense to me! :rolleyes:
Let's try this for a minute or so. Below is a link that shows pictures of several different breeds of dogs. See if you can pick out the pit bull and honestly tell us all here how many guesses it took.
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html
LOL! No, you probably don't. I wrote it at 2 am and not only was I rambling, but by the time I was half done, it didn't make much sense to me! :rolleyes:
Let's try this for a minute or so. Below is a link that shows pictures of several different breeds of dogs. See if you can pick out the pit bull and honestly tell us all here how many guesses it took.
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html
Sandi
The Pit Bull Question
Lilac, that is a great link!! Even knowing all the AKC breeds on sight, it still took me till my 3rd try to get it right. It's going to surprise a lot of people when they find the one that is a pit.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
The Pit Bull Question
LilacDragon wrote: LOL! No, you probably don't. I wrote it at 2 am and not only was I rambling, but by the time I was half done, it didn't make much sense to me! :rolleyes:
Let's try this for a minute or so. Below is a link that shows pictures of several different breeds of dogs. See if you can pick out the pit bull and honestly tell us all here how many guesses it took.
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html
What an eye opener!
I gave up after 12 and just started clicking on pics to find it.
Had my daughter try too. She couldn't do it either.
Our Maggie is an American Pitbull Staffordshire Terier. Daughter tells me most people think she's a boxer. Only one person ever has correctly identified her as a Pit.
I can see the problem now. If we who have one can't tell the difference. How can someone unfamiliar correctly identify the breed.
Let's try this for a minute or so. Below is a link that shows pictures of several different breeds of dogs. See if you can pick out the pit bull and honestly tell us all here how many guesses it took.
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html
What an eye opener!
I gave up after 12 and just started clicking on pics to find it.
Had my daughter try too. She couldn't do it either.
Our Maggie is an American Pitbull Staffordshire Terier. Daughter tells me most people think she's a boxer. Only one person ever has correctly identified her as a Pit.
I can see the problem now. If we who have one can't tell the difference. How can someone unfamiliar correctly identify the breed.
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
The Pit Bull Question
ROFLMAO! I have a white boxer and people ask me frequently who I think I am to have a pit bull in my community! Yes, I live in a community with a pit bull ban.
Sandi
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
The Pit Bull Question
Far Rider wrote: picked it first try... I know the breed. but your right most of the ones Ive seen that are attack are of mixed breeding.
Smarty-pants!
Smarty-pants!
Sandi
The Pit Bull Question
BabyRider wrote: Lilac, I have been a dog lover since I was in the womb, and I've worked in animal medicine and obedience training and behavior for years. There's a few of us here with some knowledge of dogs.
Do pit bull bans work? No, not any more than gun bans do.
Here in Detroit we have one of the highest concentrations of pit bull population, and a huge majority of these dogs are used for illegal fights. Watch "Animal Cops, Detroit" on Animal Planet and see just how many episodes show the agents seizing fighting dogs, breaking up fighting rings and rescuing "bait" dogs, etc.
It is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to own a pit bull in the city of Detroit. Does that stop them? No, of course not. There's around 12 animal cruelty agents that work for the ASPCA for the entire area. With a pit bull population over 1,000,000, they sure can't keep track of them all.
I'd be interested to see numbers of breeders in the area, as well. Since so many of them don't actually have a clue what they are doing, and are not reputable, registered breeders I doubt we could ever get an accurate count.
The pit bull problem does not lie with the dogs, it lies with the owners, and the "breeders."
I have to agree with Accountable, ban the ignorant owners. Pit bulls can be great dogs and pets if they are bred and handled properly. Far too many people think, "Ooo, I want a 'tough' dog, so I'm gonna get a pit bull." with no thought for the correct handling.
You took the words right out of my mouth.. when I read the opening post the very first thing that ran though my head was an evil laugh followed by.. yeah pitbull bans work as well as gun bans do... NOT !
You summed it up quite well BR as did many others.. I've had dogs all my life and was taught by my aunt who was a breeder and trainer for dogs and horses a lot of what I know and how I've worked with various dogs and breeds over the years that we've owned as well as others. Also took a lot of animal behavior
in college and worked in that field some also off and on.
I can show you dogs of various "benign" breeds according to the morons in the media that are the worst biters, unstable with kids and other animals and worst tempered than any pitbull that is owned as a pet and not abused.
OUr current 2 dogs are Pits, I have a beautiful brindle male that is about 86 pounds and all bully breed and a mix female that is of all things Corgi and Pitbull and she of the two even at her 10 years is the most fierce of the two when it comes to guarding her home and her people. Both love company and are good with kids and other animals EXCEPT DOGS.. they are both dog aggressive but they play with my daugther (who's a degreed Vet Tech) ferrets and her bengal kitten with no problems.
They are like any breed of dog.. get them from a reputable breeder, raise them with the family and soclialize them a lot, they need good and contiunal obedience training as they are highly intelligent and very very stubborn and pack oriented as far as alpa dog status - if you have kids get them as young pups.. if you don't socialize them with as many people and kids as you can so they are use to them and kids yelling, running, screeching as they do, don't upset the dogs. Pits do have high prey instincts like other breeds and often their "attack" is in reaction to someone acting like wounded prey. If a dog is well trained and properly leashed outside at all times there should be NO problems.
If you go to the rescue groups like we do you have to be careful there as well..these people have the best intentions in the world but often they take in street dogs who are so inbred the dogs cannot help what they become. We had a male pit pup like that.. very young he was a great dog but the older he got the more unstable he got personality wise and he had some really bad and odd physical problems. I finallly had him put down and allowed our vet to Necropsy him.. she said all the horrid inbreding had really destoryed him physically, his whole digestive system was malformed and malfunctioning .. he would never be housebroken it was a physical impossibility.. he had heart and lung problems as young as he was from the inbreeding and the rapid deteroriation of his temperment was a classic sign of horrible street inbreeding.
I cried putting him down but he was just too unstable to have for anyone at all. I am the alpha dog of the house, they all show ME that respect and this dog challenged me continuously... the day I had him come up a lease at my face when I put him on a sit command I knew we were headed for big problems with him and I was right. Two days later for no reason at all in front me .. he attached our female and almost killed her since he could easily overpower her... she put up one hell of a fight but he was too big, too young and too strong for her.. he ripped a 3" gash in my thigh when I broke up the fight... the whole time he was on a tie out... I got her and my current male (who was about 20 weeks at that time) into the house safely.. our old doberman had been sitting at the door watching all this and got him into my office.. then I went out for the offending dog who was not even a year old yet... to him it was over.. he licked my hand and wagged his tail when I walked up to him making no aggressive moves at me at all. I took him in put him into his crate, took care of the wounds of my other dog.. which were severe .. paged my daugther to come home from highschool with the emergency page.. called the vet and we rushed my female in for surgery.. our VET told me I was bleeding which I had not noticed to this point.. once we knew the female would be ok after surgery.. brough the aggressive pup in and had him put down. Rest is history.
Will I own pits again when these two go.. DEFINITELY I am a true lover of the breed but I also know what to look for and how to deal with them.
The crime is not with the dog and its breed, the crime as Accountable states so well is with the owners that turn them into monsters when they are really very loving animals and loyal to death to their owners and human families. Enough inbreeding and cruelty can turn even the sweetest dog or breed of dog into the monsters the Pits have been made to be.
Do pit bull bans work? No, not any more than gun bans do.
Here in Detroit we have one of the highest concentrations of pit bull population, and a huge majority of these dogs are used for illegal fights. Watch "Animal Cops, Detroit" on Animal Planet and see just how many episodes show the agents seizing fighting dogs, breaking up fighting rings and rescuing "bait" dogs, etc.
It is illegal for anyone under the age of 18 to own a pit bull in the city of Detroit. Does that stop them? No, of course not. There's around 12 animal cruelty agents that work for the ASPCA for the entire area. With a pit bull population over 1,000,000, they sure can't keep track of them all.
I'd be interested to see numbers of breeders in the area, as well. Since so many of them don't actually have a clue what they are doing, and are not reputable, registered breeders I doubt we could ever get an accurate count.
The pit bull problem does not lie with the dogs, it lies with the owners, and the "breeders."
I have to agree with Accountable, ban the ignorant owners. Pit bulls can be great dogs and pets if they are bred and handled properly. Far too many people think, "Ooo, I want a 'tough' dog, so I'm gonna get a pit bull." with no thought for the correct handling.
You took the words right out of my mouth.. when I read the opening post the very first thing that ran though my head was an evil laugh followed by.. yeah pitbull bans work as well as gun bans do... NOT !
You summed it up quite well BR as did many others.. I've had dogs all my life and was taught by my aunt who was a breeder and trainer for dogs and horses a lot of what I know and how I've worked with various dogs and breeds over the years that we've owned as well as others. Also took a lot of animal behavior
in college and worked in that field some also off and on.
I can show you dogs of various "benign" breeds according to the morons in the media that are the worst biters, unstable with kids and other animals and worst tempered than any pitbull that is owned as a pet and not abused.
OUr current 2 dogs are Pits, I have a beautiful brindle male that is about 86 pounds and all bully breed and a mix female that is of all things Corgi and Pitbull and she of the two even at her 10 years is the most fierce of the two when it comes to guarding her home and her people. Both love company and are good with kids and other animals EXCEPT DOGS.. they are both dog aggressive but they play with my daugther (who's a degreed Vet Tech) ferrets and her bengal kitten with no problems.
They are like any breed of dog.. get them from a reputable breeder, raise them with the family and soclialize them a lot, they need good and contiunal obedience training as they are highly intelligent and very very stubborn and pack oriented as far as alpa dog status - if you have kids get them as young pups.. if you don't socialize them with as many people and kids as you can so they are use to them and kids yelling, running, screeching as they do, don't upset the dogs. Pits do have high prey instincts like other breeds and often their "attack" is in reaction to someone acting like wounded prey. If a dog is well trained and properly leashed outside at all times there should be NO problems.
If you go to the rescue groups like we do you have to be careful there as well..these people have the best intentions in the world but often they take in street dogs who are so inbred the dogs cannot help what they become. We had a male pit pup like that.. very young he was a great dog but the older he got the more unstable he got personality wise and he had some really bad and odd physical problems. I finallly had him put down and allowed our vet to Necropsy him.. she said all the horrid inbreding had really destoryed him physically, his whole digestive system was malformed and malfunctioning .. he would never be housebroken it was a physical impossibility.. he had heart and lung problems as young as he was from the inbreeding and the rapid deteroriation of his temperment was a classic sign of horrible street inbreeding.
I cried putting him down but he was just too unstable to have for anyone at all. I am the alpha dog of the house, they all show ME that respect and this dog challenged me continuously... the day I had him come up a lease at my face when I put him on a sit command I knew we were headed for big problems with him and I was right. Two days later for no reason at all in front me .. he attached our female and almost killed her since he could easily overpower her... she put up one hell of a fight but he was too big, too young and too strong for her.. he ripped a 3" gash in my thigh when I broke up the fight... the whole time he was on a tie out... I got her and my current male (who was about 20 weeks at that time) into the house safely.. our old doberman had been sitting at the door watching all this and got him into my office.. then I went out for the offending dog who was not even a year old yet... to him it was over.. he licked my hand and wagged his tail when I walked up to him making no aggressive moves at me at all. I took him in put him into his crate, took care of the wounds of my other dog.. which were severe .. paged my daugther to come home from highschool with the emergency page.. called the vet and we rushed my female in for surgery.. our VET told me I was bleeding which I had not noticed to this point.. once we knew the female would be ok after surgery.. brough the aggressive pup in and had him put down. Rest is history.
Will I own pits again when these two go.. DEFINITELY I am a true lover of the breed but I also know what to look for and how to deal with them.
The crime is not with the dog and its breed, the crime as Accountable states so well is with the owners that turn them into monsters when they are really very loving animals and loyal to death to their owners and human families. Enough inbreeding and cruelty can turn even the sweetest dog or breed of dog into the monsters the Pits have been made to be.
The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya)
The Pit Bull Question
Xxena wrote: I can show you dogs of various "benign" breeds according to the morons in the media that are the worst biters, unstable with kids and other animals and worst tempered than any pitbull that is owned as a pet and not abused.
I'm glad you mentioned that, Xxena. I've been bitten many times in my past work environment. Work in a vet hospital long enough, it's going to happen. While I dealt with many pits, I've never been bitten by one, and in fact, the two worst bites I ever got were from a cocker spaniel, and a black lab.
I'm really grateful for responsible pit owners like yourself who can show the possibilities of these great dogs, when they are brought up correctly. It's not luck, it's knowledge.
I'm glad you mentioned that, Xxena. I've been bitten many times in my past work environment. Work in a vet hospital long enough, it's going to happen. While I dealt with many pits, I've never been bitten by one, and in fact, the two worst bites I ever got were from a cocker spaniel, and a black lab.
I'm really grateful for responsible pit owners like yourself who can show the possibilities of these great dogs, when they are brought up correctly. It's not luck, it's knowledge.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
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Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
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Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
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actionfigurestepho
- Posts: 1086
- Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:32 am
The Pit Bull Question
The most vicious bite I've ever had came from a Jack Russell--darn thing tore my cheek almost off my face. Meanwhile, the pit bull next door was nothing but friendly with me. Mostly because I never approached the pit bull without the owner present to reinforce that I was a "good" person, and because I approached the Jack Russell on my own and got up in his personal space. I think people need to teach their kids not to approach dogs...dogs are great, but they're very loyal, sometimes only to a few specific people. If it's not your dog, don't mess with it without the owner knowing. And owners need to keep their dogs restrained or penned in if they even think there's the possibility of their dog approaching someone. You wouldn't let your two year old roam the streets, why would you let your dog?
The Pit Bull Question
Stastics from the National Safety Council as well as many of the Kennel clubs show that the worst biters (not in this order since I forget how it went) were
cockers, german shepherds and any of the very small breeds of dogs, what I call the lap dogs and mop dogs and the Jackies were rated bad for their hyper temperments. Jackies are kinda cool in their own way but one would drive me nuts... I don't have the patience for their continual hyper state , but they are smart little buggers and good pets to their owners.
Why is it that I find most progun or gun owners are also very cool with the Pits and the more "aggressive type" dog breeds if not already owners of them ? Is it the fact that we usually tend to be very independent and self assured and don't let silly things become the boogeymen in our minds cuz the morons in the media tell us so ?
cockers, german shepherds and any of the very small breeds of dogs, what I call the lap dogs and mop dogs and the Jackies were rated bad for their hyper temperments. Jackies are kinda cool in their own way but one would drive me nuts... I don't have the patience for their continual hyper state , but they are smart little buggers and good pets to their owners.
Why is it that I find most progun or gun owners are also very cool with the Pits and the more "aggressive type" dog breeds if not already owners of them ? Is it the fact that we usually tend to be very independent and self assured and don't let silly things become the boogeymen in our minds cuz the morons in the media tell us so ?
The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya)
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LilacDragon
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The Pit Bull Question
I got my rottweiler from animal control and I was pretty lucky. I had plenty of dog experience, which I really didn't need as this girl was a dream. She graced our home with her presence for 8 short years. She was absolutely unflappable. My son grew up with her, he turned 7 shortly before she passed, and some of my fondest memories of her involve her interaction with that little boy.
For the last year, the dogs in my immediate family were as follows: the rottweiler, a beagle, 3 greyhounds, a yorkie, a standard poodle, and a chihuahua. The chi and the beagle both have (or had) some resource guarding issues. The greys all have issues that date back to their racing days. The standard poodle is, well, a poodle. That is the order that you had to worry about being bitten (well, except the beagle, who learned rather quickly that I would not tolerate being growled at for any reason in my own home!).
Every year, I attend a rottweiler rescue function that I actively coordinate. Last summer we had 15 full grown rottweilers in attendence. I can tell you that not one dog was a problem, the day passed peacefully and a good time was had by all. This includes the rescue that had been used as a bait dog. As responsible owners, we know how to read our dogs, avoid situations that cause stress for the dogs and believe that training is paramount in having a large powerful dog that is expected to be a good citizen of a community.
No, pit bull bans don't work. The truth is, irresponsible owners who don't train, socialize or vet their dogs also don't bother to register them. Holding owners responsible for the actions of their dogs - be it running at large, attacking someone's dog or biting a person. If your dog kills someone for "no reason", then you should face manslaughter charges. It should be this way for EVERY breed of dog, not just pit bulls. The victim of a pit bull bite is in no more pain then the victim of a poodle bite. I can promise you that when I got bit in the face by my aunt's schnauzer when I was younger it hurt just as bad as the rottweiler (not my female) bite I got just a couple of years ago.
For the last year, the dogs in my immediate family were as follows: the rottweiler, a beagle, 3 greyhounds, a yorkie, a standard poodle, and a chihuahua. The chi and the beagle both have (or had) some resource guarding issues. The greys all have issues that date back to their racing days. The standard poodle is, well, a poodle. That is the order that you had to worry about being bitten (well, except the beagle, who learned rather quickly that I would not tolerate being growled at for any reason in my own home!).
Every year, I attend a rottweiler rescue function that I actively coordinate. Last summer we had 15 full grown rottweilers in attendence. I can tell you that not one dog was a problem, the day passed peacefully and a good time was had by all. This includes the rescue that had been used as a bait dog. As responsible owners, we know how to read our dogs, avoid situations that cause stress for the dogs and believe that training is paramount in having a large powerful dog that is expected to be a good citizen of a community.
No, pit bull bans don't work. The truth is, irresponsible owners who don't train, socialize or vet their dogs also don't bother to register them. Holding owners responsible for the actions of their dogs - be it running at large, attacking someone's dog or biting a person. If your dog kills someone for "no reason", then you should face manslaughter charges. It should be this way for EVERY breed of dog, not just pit bulls. The victim of a pit bull bite is in no more pain then the victim of a poodle bite. I can promise you that when I got bit in the face by my aunt's schnauzer when I was younger it hurt just as bad as the rottweiler (not my female) bite I got just a couple of years ago.
Sandi
The Pit Bull Question
My daughter got a pit bull puppy about 5 years ago and I thought she was crazy...I was afraid of the puppy even though it was really cute. Now, after 5 years, I know this dog is the most cuddly, loving, affectionate and sweetest animal I've had the pleasure of knowing! She's a great dog.
Think positive. And if you can't, fake it 'til you make it.
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Living in a nudist colony takes all the fun out of Halloween.
The Pit Bull Question
NursiePoo wrote: My daughter got a pit bull puppy about 5 years ago and I thought she was crazy...I was afraid of the puppy even though it was really cute. Now, after 5 years, I know this dog is the most cuddly, loving, affectionate and sweetest animal I've had the pleasure of knowing! She's a great dog.
Pitti's have some odd ways of showing affection.. my big male likes to chew on your earlobes and then lick them and try and clean your ears.. its disgusting..my daugther's fiance' seems to like it and think its funny.. but he's weird to begin with:p Can't count the number of the daugther's earrings that have gone down that gullet and come out the same way they went in thankfully.
We seldom tell people he's a pure bred pit... we wait until they are just
loving him and playing with him, petting him, giving him treats and making him
do his odd tricks.. and then I tell him "that's one of those Killer Pitbulls".. they never believe me until I show them his papers.
I don't think my female is a pit/corgi mix.. she's too small.. I think she's probably
a staffie/corgi mix - she's got the tenactity and attitude of a Pit no doubt about that and she's got the body frame, neck, shoulders, chest and face/eyes of a pit.. but she's smaller and has the fur/coloring and ears of a Pembrook corgi.. have a friend that calls her Yoda when her ears stand straight up checking something out.
The obedience trainer I used for my male has a business that specializes in training guard and attack dogs, obedience of all breeds and behavioral study and training of aggressive breed dogs especially. He said the only pits he's ever had a problem with were those that were brought in by obvious gang members wanting them to be made into attack dogs and had been obviously abused or a handful that people got from shelters that had no clear idea of their background but knew they were street dogs from the city. His comment was they are big lap dogs that think they' 8 pounds and 6 inches high with an attitude that doesn't quit and too smart for their own good most of the time. His personal dogs with his own kids are 2 mega huge rotti's (georgeous dogs) and a Pit/boxer mix.
Pitti's have some odd ways of showing affection.. my big male likes to chew on your earlobes and then lick them and try and clean your ears.. its disgusting..my daugther's fiance' seems to like it and think its funny.. but he's weird to begin with:p Can't count the number of the daugther's earrings that have gone down that gullet and come out the same way they went in thankfully.
We seldom tell people he's a pure bred pit... we wait until they are just
loving him and playing with him, petting him, giving him treats and making him
do his odd tricks.. and then I tell him "that's one of those Killer Pitbulls".. they never believe me until I show them his papers.
I don't think my female is a pit/corgi mix.. she's too small.. I think she's probably
a staffie/corgi mix - she's got the tenactity and attitude of a Pit no doubt about that and she's got the body frame, neck, shoulders, chest and face/eyes of a pit.. but she's smaller and has the fur/coloring and ears of a Pembrook corgi.. have a friend that calls her Yoda when her ears stand straight up checking something out.
The obedience trainer I used for my male has a business that specializes in training guard and attack dogs, obedience of all breeds and behavioral study and training of aggressive breed dogs especially. He said the only pits he's ever had a problem with were those that were brought in by obvious gang members wanting them to be made into attack dogs and had been obviously abused or a handful that people got from shelters that had no clear idea of their background but knew they were street dogs from the city. His comment was they are big lap dogs that think they' 8 pounds and 6 inches high with an attitude that doesn't quit and too smart for their own good most of the time. His personal dogs with his own kids are 2 mega huge rotti's (georgeous dogs) and a Pit/boxer mix.
The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya)