Just Chase the Bear

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:41 am

Directly after reading lon's thread, I saw this in the NY Daily News:

"An 11-year-old girl, waiting for a heart and liver transplant, had her dream come true when she killed a 335 pound black bear with a single shot to the heart."

Read more: Bear hunting dreams come true for children with disabilities and illnesses - NY Daily News

My first thought was the same as a comment made by a reader: "Interesting. Ill children have dreams of killing something."

eta: Killing something makes you feel better

Attached files

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:03 am

I'm not against hunting. It's a primitive trait within is that hasn't died off. That said, hunting should be for the table and not for joyfull killing of animals for fun.

I'm quite disturbed that an 11 year old's dream would be to kill a beautiful animal and by the looks of it, a juvenile one

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:13 am

Snowfire;1407016 wrote: I'm not against hunting. It's a primitive trait within is that hasn't died off. That said, hunting should be for the table and not for joyfull killing of animals for fun.

I'm quite disturbed that an 11 year old's dream would be to kill a beautiful animal and by the looks of it, a juvenile one
I'm not against hunting either. In fact, I agree with every word you wrote.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:45 am

Revolting.

Surprising that a young person fighting for their own life and very survival would so callously gun down another life. Where's the empathy ? Typical 'I'm the superior species' attitude.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:22 am

Think of what Joseph Campbell would have made of this. There is something so mythical about the whole thing! As if conquering the spirit of the bear would have it's strength enter your soul & give you power. Campbell said "I think that what we’re seeking is an experience of being alive...". Somehow the killing of the beast engenders feelings of control & energy, & the one who achieves this ascendency is transformed. That might seem like romanticising the subject in the day & age of PETA, but there seems to be something so primal, so ancient in this that it's almost ritualistic.

Do you think these kids would hunt if their health was good & everything was normal? Or is it only a reaction to disease & misfortune?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:24 am

Possibly but what I see Is one life wanting to preserve her own but callously taking the life of another.

British sick kids tend to want to swim with Dolphins.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:51 am

This story depresses me.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:53 am

SnoozeAgain;1407032 wrote: This story depresses me.
Yup. Anyway you look at it, nothing's good here.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:58 am

AB, I do think those kids would hunt regardless. What type of family you

grow up in might dictate that.

From the pic, it looks like it might be a 'trophy' hunt but without further

info, I really can't say.

I do know that my Dad hunted all through my growing up, and it was

most definitely for the table. For many years we had 2 freezers for

game and for things from our large vegetable garden.

I've eaten bear before. Although greasy, it is really flavorful. And the

reasoning behind taking a younger animal is they haven't had a chance

to develop hormones that might taint the meat. And they are much more

tender.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:03 am

valerie;1407034 wrote: AB, I do think those kids would hunt regardless. What type of family you

grow up in might dictate that.

From the pic, it looks like it might be a 'trophy' hunt but without further

info, I really can't say.

I do know that my Dad hunted all through my growing up, and it was

most definitely for the table. For many years we had 2 freezers for

game and for things from our large vegetable garden.

I've eaten bear before. Although greasy, it is really flavorful. And the

reasoning behind taking a younger animal is they haven't had a chance

to develop hormones that might taint the meat. And they are much more

tender.

That's fair comment from someone who knows. I happy to meet half way if that is the case

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:11 am

valerie;1407034 wrote: AB, I do think those kids would hunt regardless. What type of family you

grow up in might dictate that.

From the pic, it looks like it might be a 'trophy' hunt but without further

info, I really can't say.

I do know that my Dad hunted all through my growing up, and it was

most definitely for the table. For many years we had 2 freezers for

game and for things from our large vegetable garden.

I've eaten bear before. Although greasy, it is really flavorful. And the

reasoning behind taking a younger animal is they haven't had a chance

to develop hormones that might taint the meat. And they are much more

tender.

I went over the article again valerie. It said "So far children have harvested 24 bears, which are on their way to taxidermists." So all are for trophy. I've never tasted bear, never even thought about it. Now I am & I don't know! I was against hunting until I ate deer meat & met hunters. We were living in rural Wisconsin at the time. Growing up in NYC, it was easy to be against hunting, but living on the farm showed me a different experience. I never thought I'd be "friends" with my food! More honest, I suppose, makes you face who dinner was.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:25 am

The meat from an animal headed for taxidermy can still be used, though.

Not trying to be argumentative at all, but just in case you didn't realize.

Animals for taxidermy are filled with different materials (not sure what it

is now, used to be sawdust or similar) and so the body of the animal is

not needed to fill out the mounted animal.

As a young girl, I made friends with many animals that were headed for

the table. One baby calf I named "Sir Loin" and even painted it on the

door to his pen. My sister had a pet chicken named Goldie.

You learn.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:05 pm

I didn't realize! Thanks for the information. My Wisconsin experience was a long time ago. The thing I remember most about hunting season are the women who came up to the area for prostitution reasons. Fascinating. Camp Followers. One of them was a friend of our hosts. She told the most interesting stories.

I love your anecdotes! The farmers had a cow who was always getting through the electric fence & often in the middle of the night neighbors would call saying the cow just walked by & then everyone would have to help get it back. One night at dinner I realized that hadn't happened in a while & I asked our friend the farmer what's going on & he said "You're eating him". I quickly conquered my feelings!

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:06 pm

Well, let's hope she was hunting for the meat and not the trophy. I still think it's an odd thing to have on a young girl's bucket list.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:09 pm

SnoozeAgain;1407049 wrote: Well, let's hope she was hunting for the meat and not the trophy. I still think it's an odd thing to have on a young girl's bucket list.

Not this kid.

''She expected to return from the hunt empty handed but managed to shoot the 335 pound black bear, which her family intends to mount on the wall."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... z28dr7ViT9"

eta: Of course I now have learned that you can do both, but I think it was more of a trophy thing to look at & remember. She always has that, whereas if she ate any of it I'm sure it's been flushed away.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:02 pm

There are a few (not sure of the number, can't cite hard statistics)

hunters who donate the meat. To food banks and other organizations.

In some places (probably more 'country') you can call local sheriff and

they will have meat given to an individual family in need.

I agree, in this case it was probably much more of the trophy aspect,

and that is very sad, for the animal.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:16 pm

How old do you think a kid should be before s/he starts hunting, can obtain a permit? I'm hoping the parent would make sure the kid was already proficient with a rifle/shotgun/ak47

. Bow and arrow hunting. That sounds extremely hard, requiring a lot of skill, patience. Yes, I've heard of food kitchens benefiting from hunting. Let's face it, if we eat meat we have to kill it first. Why am I suddenly thinking of Bambi?

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:41 am

Me and my kids have always been hunters (deer,pheasant,quail,goose,duck,dove) we eat our kill and love it. I never had the desire to eat bear. I'm kinda like the indians. I try not to eat animals who eat meat or can walk around on two legs.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:36 am

At what ages did your kids start to hunt with you? Were they taught to shoot beforehand? Targets & such?

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:58 am

AnneBoleyn;1407118 wrote: At what ages did your kids start to hunt with you? Were they taught to shoot beforehand? Targets & such?

They went with me when younger with air rifles or just to walk along working the dog, or to sit in deer blind. At ages 12-14 depending on which son(oldest was more mature and responsible than younger two) they started hunting with real guns and rifles. When younger with air rifles they were required to treat them as real (which they are) guns and taught to handle them correctly. They got to shoot when they were pretty young, 8-10 when we were just target shooting or practicing. They started bow hunting around same ages, but until they were around 17-18 they always hunted with me or family or friends.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:08 am

My Dad made sure all of us were completely respectful around guns.

My brother was a junior NRA member starting at age 8 I think? And

then went on to become a police/sheriff's officer for many years.

The thing that was good about the way we were raised was that if you

wanted to shoot, Dad would take you out and let you shoot. So, totally

removing the 'forbidden fruit' aspect of it. There was no smiling, joking,

laughing when the guns were in use, it was serious business.

One of the questions on the gun license test was what a child should

do when they are at someone's house or whatever and see a gun.

(Answer: Stop. Don't touch. Leave the area. Tell an adult.) A child can learn

at least that, at a fairly early age.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:04 pm

Yes. Those answers are things my husband used to say. He grew up with guns in a very rural area.

Valerie:

One of the questions on the gun license test was what a child should

do when they are at someone's house or whatever and see a gun.

(Answer: Stop. Don't touch. Leave the area. Tell an adult.) A child can learn

at least that, at a fairly early age.

I saw an experiment, actually a few of them, where a toy gun was placed in a kindergarten class, either the children were told not to touch it, or in some they just found it. They had been taught what to do, but when adults left the room, ALL the children would clamor to touch & want to shoot the gun. Their parents & teachers were watching on cctv & were shocked to see the lessons were not learned, altho the kids would parrot back what & what not to do. The little ones couldn't resist. I've seen this experiment done on TV shows quite a few times over the years. It was also shocking that almost always 100% of the kids, 100% of the time tried to handle the gun.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:48 pm

We might have seen the same one at some point... if I recall it was a

rather large room and the kids were told they could go in and there

were backpacks, etc. all over, but I do distinctly remember (And grant

you, it might have been a VERY low number, but still) there were a couple

of kids who had been taught the gun safety rules who did leave right away.

Dang, I wish I remember enough to search for it somehow.

Then again, left w/o guns, little kids will point the first fingers and each

other and make firing noises!

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:55 am

"Then again, left w/o guns, little kids will point the first fingers and each

other and make firing noises!"

Better not at school. Zero tolerance.