Bonfire Night versus Halloween

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:21 pm

Why has Halloween replaced Bonfire Night as the main celebration at this time of year ?

Years ago Halloween was hardly celebrated in the UK as far as I can remember.

I have always thought Halloween was an American thing, but after some investigation it seems it is based on mixture of pagan Celtic and Christian practices.

So why has it gone off to America and returned over here pushing Guy Fawkes off the top spot ?

I reckon it is easier to sell Halloween than Guy Fawkes, so it is driven by big business.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:30 pm

Costumes and candy make a lot of money.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:34 am

Number of reasons I think. it's no longer politically correct to burn effigies of Catholics on top of a bonfire and people are actually forgetting what it was all about because we can't really talk about why sectarianism became so endemic in our society. For some reason guy fawkes has somehow been transmorphed in to a symbol representing the fight against tyranny thanks to films such as v for vendetta and the use if his image in the form of a mask at demonstrations and the like. An irony I find very irritating. He was anything but a supporter of freedom but rather someone who wanted an absolutist monarchy and the crushing of heretics.

I used to go guizing - trick or treating when I was a kid except the tricking bit would have got you a good hiding when you got home. The kids would go wound the neighbours and were expected to give a wee performance for their treat. From my perspective it died out and has then come back in a nastier form.

World Wide Words: Guiser

It has survived most actively in Scotland. After this piece first appeared in the newsletter, subscriber Jane Brown wrote: “I lived in an Aberdeenshire village some 20 years ago and I remember the guisers who came round on Halloween night. They were the local youngsters, dressed up in ghoulish attire, who performed a song, dance or told a joke in exchange for sweets or a small amount of money. Before I left the area, the custom had begun to be taken over by the American Trick or Treat, which was not as popular with the residents. And Chris Smith wrote: “In Shetland it’s always guizer. Children go guizing at Hallowe’en, but the most important guizing takes place at Up-Helly-A’ in late January. The torch-lit parade is led by the Guizer Jarl’s squad (who get to grow enormous beards and dress up as Vikings), followed by other squads of just plain guizers.

Americans of course have no idea who guy fawkes was.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:26 am

Of course I've heard of him, he's one of the most famous football stars in history.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:14 am

What has knowing the history got to to with it ?

Everybody celebrates Christmas with only a passing nod at the why, or the alleged why.....(to stop any come backs.)

As a child I only had a basic idea of the Guy Fawkes story, that was enough to stuff some old clothes with newspaper and form an effigy and stand outside the station in drizzling rain begging for money.

Then the Americans took Halloween, parceled it up, outsourced decorations to China and sold it back to us.

And we bought it hook line and sinker..........

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:42 am

Bruv;1409433 wrote: What has knowing the history got to to with it ?

Everybody celebrates Christmas with only a passing nod at the why, or the alleged why.....(to stop any come backs.)

As a child I only had a basic idea of the Guy Fawkes story, that was enough to stuff some old clothes with newspaper and form an effigy and stand outside the station in drizzling rain begging for money.

Then the Americans took Halloween, parceled it up, outsourced decorations to China and sold it back to us.

And we bought it hook line and sinker..........

Perhaps but you knew there was a reason for it. The whole point of bonfire night is to remind people what was at stake.

Halloween is an old pagan festival to do with the change in seasons So is Christmas and new year was always more of a celebration than christmas anyway, also an old pagan festival. The church tried to ban festivals at this time of year but never could. I think our primal selves chime in with celebrating at these times of year catching our imagination more than any Christian tempts to hijack them ever could. The real meaning of christmas is that the worst of the winter is over, we can start looking forward to the future. Halloween and winter solstice celebrations are more in tune with northern european spirit and culture than an alien religion from a desert could ever hope to be.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:09 pm

I've not researched it, but I wonder if it started out with knocking on doors and expecting money or sweets :wah:

My door is locked tonight and won't be answered I'm afraid. Let's hope they don't leave too much wreckage behind.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:48 pm

I loathe both.

So do my dogs, cat, local wildlife and cattle at every damn firework.