Racism

[ProfessionalMoron]

I love it. I was hoping for this. You guys never let me down. :guitarist

[ProfessionalMoron]

Now..... i just wait for floppy's response.

[Nomad]

Foopy......its foopy !

[Nomad]

flopstock wrote: Speakin of...would have answered this sooner, but real life interferred in the form of sex....and since i wasn't alone for a change...heheheh



What was the question? BTW you wanta talk twitchin...:sneaky:




I knew you were having sex...its Sat.

[Nomad]

SASSY !

[Betty Boop]

Nomad wrote: I knew you were having sex...its Sat.




Thats Sundays over here!

[Nomad]

SASSY !

[Accountable]

kissedangel66 wrote: What nonsense is this? White and African women are facing the same problems, absent fathers is a societial problem. The problems are lack of education and direct racism which comes in the form of eugenics. Oh and one more thing there are many single parents who do not recieve support from the children's fathers who are educated and have jobs to support their children.
I think I've made my abhorrence of color-coding humans clear in many posts. I had to look up eugenics before knowing whether I agree with you, but I still need clarification. Please explain your statement about racism in the form of eugenics.

[Bothwell]

The problems are lack of education and direct racism which comes in the form of eugenics. Oh and one more thing there are many single parents who do not recieve support from the children's fathers who are educated and have jobs to support their children.


I dont understand! Are you saying that yes black children suffer because in many cases there is the absence of a father figure or not?.

I know that Trevor Phillips recently said this :

Black absent fathers who fail to support the education of their sons should be denied "automatic" contact with them, according to the head of Britain's race watchdog.

Trevor Phillips, who chairs the Commission for Racial Equality, is calling for tough measures to address the underachievement of black boys. In a BBC documentary he will suggest that black boys failing to thrive in particular subjects might be taught in separate classes from their white counterparts.


and although I dislike large cut and pastes, the following is from the agenda fron the Fathers Direct Conference

The reasons some black men fail to help raise their children will be discussed at a national conference on fatherhood. Research into absent black fathers will be presented at a Babyfather Initiative forum at the Fathers Direct conference being held in central London. The initiative aims to combat negative stereotypes of black fathers. Barnardo's, which set it up, said many black men played significant roles in their children's lives but the reasons some did not needed to be examined. The Babyfather Initiative is a joint project between Barnardo's and the Babyfather Alliance set up by author Patrick Augustus. Mr Augustus wrote the book Babyfather - dramatised by the BBC - which focused on a group of black men's relationships with their children and partners. The term "babyfather" is Caribbean slang for a man who does not live with his children - who often have different mothers. Research in 2002 showed more than half the heads of black Caribbean households with dependent children were lone parents. And last March Commission for Racial Equality chairman Trevor Phillips implied some absent fathers were partially to blame for the under-achievement of black boys at school. Barnardo's spokesman Errol John said the Babyfather Initiative acknowledged there were problems to be tackled.


not to steal your thuder but I thought I would post the actual no frills definition

Eugenics is the study of methods to improve the human race by controlling reproduction. The word was coined in 1883 by Francis Galton, a cousin of Charles Darwin. Galton believed that the proper evolution of the human race was thwarted by philanthropic outreach to the poor; misguided charity encouraged the "unfit" to bear more children. This upset the mechanism of natural selection. Hence, the human race needed a kind of artificial selection, which he called "eugenics," from Greek for good birth. Galton wanted eugenics to develop from a science to a policy and finally into a religion. *1

[Accountable]

kissedangel66 wrote: What nonsense is this? White and African women are facing the same problems, absent fathers is a societial problem. The problems are lack of education and direct racism which comes in the form of eugenics. Oh and one more thing there are many single parents who do not recieve support from the children's fathers who are educated and have jobs to support their children.
kissedangel66 wrote: Eugenicists include in the category of the unfit, black people, who were of course a treat to the reproduction of the superior race. (“Eugenics and Sexual Knowledge. PhD Thesis, Liverpool university, 1988) Reverend James Hamilton, for example, warned against the pollution of white blood, as this would help to undermine British power and influence. other thought that black people should be eliminated altogether, not just in Britain but in the own countries, in order to make room for the naturally superior white race to rule. (‘Eugenics and Sexual Knowledge. PhD Thesis, Liverpool university, 1988) Karl Pearson, a prominent sociologist of the time, and a weighty figure behind this school of thought, wanted colonies such as South Africa to be totally dominated by this white race even if this meant genocide for the black population. (Ibid., p.199)
This shows nothing of any actual practice of eugenics.

[chonsigirl]

I think you have your centuries wrong in the statement above, you mean 1888? Pearson lived from 1857-1936, KA.

[TenneseeGirl]

Living near an army instilation and in the south i get two very different views on this subject. When i venture onto fort campbell racism is non exhistant. There is no room to hate the person next to you for any reason when you are united against a common enemy. However not even 5 miles south in Clarksville Tn you get a verry different view. the N word is used with a frequency that astonishes me. it is used when talking about anyone of that race, friend or foe.

perhaps racism is one of those things that makes our country what it is. i am not condoning this behavior. but all of us know someone who beleivs that the races should be segrigated. and the struggle to unite this country is one that many people base their lifes work. if we woke up tomorow and there was no racism what would you do? If there was not a fight for womans lib? If the Glass ceiling(i cant spell) suddenly broke away? what would we sit and argue about then?

in truth not all men are created equal and untill we come to terms with that fact we shall have to get used to the racism and discrimination that is embeded into this country

~~~~

Food for thought, swollow it or not thats up to you

[Accountable]

TenneseeGirl wrote: Living near an army instilation and in the south i get two very different views on this subject. When i venture onto fort campbell racism is non exhistant. There is no room to hate the person next to you for any reason when you are united against a common enemy. However not even 5 miles south in Clarksville Tn you get a verry different view. the N word is used with a frequency that astonishes me. it is used when talking about anyone of that race, friend or foe.



perhaps racism is one of those things that makes our country what it is. i am not condoning this behavior. but all of us know someone who beleivs that the races should be segrigated. and the struggle to unite this country is one that many people base their lifes work. if we woke up tomorow and there was no racism what would you do? If there was not a fight for womans lib? If the Glass ceiling(i cant spell) suddenly broke away? what would we sit and argue about then?



in truth not all men are created equal and untill we come to terms with that fact we shall have to get used to the racism and discrimination that is embeded into this country

~~~~

Food for thought, swollow it or not thats up to you
Your spelling is fine (i before e except after c )



You didn't really mean "get used to the racism" did you? That means to just relax & let it happen. The Army has (virtually) no racism because they all have chosen a common identity - soldier - and have made all other identities secondary. They don't ignore the differences; they celebrate them in the context that families celebrate the different personalities of siblings.



I reject the concept of "race" and will face down bigotry wherever I find it. I do this because I have seen that it is possible. It is the right thing to do.

[TenneseeGirl]

Accountable wrote: Your spelling is fine (i before e except after c )



You didn't really mean "get used to the racism" did you? That means to just relax & let it happen. The Army has (virtually) no racism because they all have chosen a common identity - soldier - and have made all other identities secondary. They don't ignore the differences; they celebrate them in the context that families celebrate the different personalities of siblings.



I reject the concept of "race" and will face down bigotry wherever I find it. I do this because I have seen that it is possible. It is the right thing to do.


No i didnot mean get used to racism-- i just meant that people have accepted it as a part of life and they are used to having something to fight about-- if that makes sence. and untill people generally accept the fact that we are not all the same and then embrace those inherant differences then we will have a fighting chance to get rid of this horrible plague on our society--

[Accountable]

A kindred spirit! *performs Latvian dance of joy*



It's the parasites such as Jesse Jackson and others, including many politicians :yh_sick that really tick me off. (I would've typed **** me off but they don't like to see **** around here) To profit not only from someone's misfortune, but from actively perpetuatinge it, is sickening.



Especially frustrating to me are the people who are bigots and don't realize it. They are the ones who say this group or that group are incapable of improving themselves without government intervention of some type. Hispanic children are just as capable of learning English, and learning in English, as French, Russian, or Viet Namese children. Black people are just as capable of obtaining and maintaining legal gainful employment as yellow, white, and brown people. Our society labels "good" those people who think it is acceptable to categorize (color code) our fellow humans and treat the groups differently. They don't seem to understand (ostensably) that they are the ones treating them as second-class citizens, by creating a lower standard than they hold for themselves. Don't they see that this alone shows that they see themselves as superior?? :-5

[pina]

Same way I think acc. everyone is a person with there own personality whatever colour they may be, wherever they come from or whatever size they may be or however bright, or rich, or whatever religion, or sexual preferences ( child or animal molesters excluded), or any other differences they might have handicaps etc... Every person is a human being and should be treated as such. Some are just luckier than others and born into a world that has more possibilities for them.

[Accountable]

Right! Thanks, Pina. People are not born the same, but they are nevertheless equal. Just as one random example, Robert Reich was born short, ugly, with a funny voice. He was also born with a genius and drive.



http://www.robertreich.org/reich/biography.asp

Robert B. Reich is University Professor and Maurice B. Hexter Professor of Social and Economic Policy at Brandeis University and at Brandeis’s Heller School of Social Policy and Management. He has served in three national administrations, most recently as secretary of labor under President Bill Clinton. He has written ten books, including The Work of Nations, which has been translated into 22 languages; the best-sellers The Future of Success and Locked in the Cabinet; and his most recent book, Reason. His articles have appeared in The New Yorker, Atlantic Monthly, New York Times, Washington Post, and Wall Street Journal. Mr. Reich is co-founder and national editor of The American Prospect magazine. His commentaries on public radio's marketplace are heard weekly by 4 and a half million people.


I disagree with many stands Dr Reich has taken, but have great respect for his intellect. I wonder how many people wrote him off simply because he was too little for sports. I wonder how many people of similar physical stature allowed others write them off.

[venus]

I have to say l agree with you Acc.

It is our differences in culture, traditions, food for example that make us so amazing, and yet we are so similar. we are human..

It does not matter what you were born with, but what you do with it that counts.

You could have been born into a white, priviliged family and do sod all with your life and rely on family connections for everything.. (l know this one from a member of my family)

Or be born into a less priviliged family of a different colour, or white....will people write you off, possibly. But the brain you were born with is yours alone and only you control it..

We are not given the same start in life no matter what the culture, but saying you can't make something of yourself because of it is rubbish as far as lm concerned, as plenty have and continue to do so..

I detest bigotry and racism, but l also accept the fact it is not going to go away over night and that we all have a duty to stand up against it.

[Accountable]

I think the ones that bug me most are those like Rainbowsmiles and kissedangel66 who are bigoted against their own people, seeing them as incapable of overcoming their challenges. Some hold this prejudice despite their own personal success!

[venus]

I hear what you are saying

In a way l think they get a kick out of feeling superior..

I did it , but you can't without my help... wtf?

[TenneseeGirl]

Accountable wrote: A kindred spirit! *performs Latvian dance of joy*



It's the parasites such as Jesse Jackson and others, including many politicians :yh_sick that really tick me off. (I would've typed **** me off but they don't like to see **** around here) To profit not only from someone's misfortune, but from actively perpetuatinge it, is sickening.



Especially frustrating to me are the people who are bigots and don't realize it. They are the ones who say this group or that group are incapable of improving themselves without government intervention of some type. Hispanic children are just as capable of learning English, and learning in English, as French, Russian, or Viet Namese children. Black people are just as capable of obtaining and maintaining legal gainful employment as yellow, white, and brown people. Our society labels "good" those people who think it is acceptable to categorize (color code) our fellow humans and treat the groups differently. They don't seem to understand (ostensably) that they are the ones treating them as second-class citizens, by creating a lower standard than they hold for themselves. Don't they see that this alone shows that they see themselves as superior?? :-5


ACC you stole the words right out of my head and then wrote them down so they made sence! LOL Poverty, Racism, and all of the"Plagues" that effect the modern western culture are a produced because we "want" them there. I put want in quotations because i believe that it is not want but a subconcious action that leads us to setting the expectations for these poorer social status groups that exhist.

I will use health care as an example: to qualify for federally funded insurance you have to have virtually no income. You have two children. While you are down and out you get medicaid. Your first child is diagnosed with a chronic illness. Inorder for your child to continue to receive treatment for said illness you must maintain your current monitary earnings. you are then forced to stay at poverty level for your child to receive the treatment that he needs to live. Thus we have now created a person that will maintain the current financial status so that their child does not suffer.

Now you may be asking what does this have to do with racism??? Unfortunatly we in america have set up similar systems that have now linked poverty with race. Since most child bearing relationships in the united states are of the same race, this has now become a racial problem.

The higher ups in america have now set a standard for the majority of this race to live in poverty to survive(i know this is an oxymoron but it does not matter). Now we see that race as second class because the majority of said race lives in the projects. because the mom cant go out and get a job because her son will loose his medicaid. the son grows up, marries, has a child and the cycle starts over. I think that about sums up what i have to say on this. Untill someone sparks another glimmer of inteligent thought in my head.

~~~~~~

Just some food for thought.Swallow it or not, thats up to you.

[Accountable]

Excellent examples. John Stossel calls it the law of unintended consequences in his book Give me a Break.



Let's not forget that that young man who fathers a child is rewarded for staying away. The mother must be destitute and remain so to qualify for all the programs a lower-income family could never afford. Bringing a man into the house makes it difficult to make the case that at least one of them could not go out to earn some kind of income. Thus, the statistics show a rise in single-parent families.



I have to say it really bugs me when you - or anyone - refer to race. I reject the concept of race. It is this concept that started this whole thing. We artificially created a subculture through forced segregation over the generations. The majority of poor, even inner-city poor, have light-colored skin. The black population is statistically over-represented in poor neighborhoods and under-represented in affluent neighborhoods, but this is a coincidence created by this very concept. The poor, all of them, are being rewarded for staying poor by our well-intended assistance programs. As they say, a rising tide lifts all boats. If we help all the poor, we help those brethren some see as a separate group.

[Accountable]

Thanks, Arnold. Sooner or later, I'm going to take you and Bez seriously about my writing, then you'll be sorry! :wah:



You're no slouch yourself, y'know. I'm going to have to search your posts. I remember some real gems there.

[TenneseeGirl]

Accountable wrote: Excellent examples. John Stossel calls it the law of unintended consequences in his book Give me a Break.

I have to say it really bugs me when you - or anyone - refer to race. I reject the concept of race. It is this concept that started this whole thing. We artificially created a subculture through forced segregation over the generations. The majority of poor, even inner-city poor, have light-colored skin. The black population is statistically over-represented in poor neighborhoods and under-represented in affluent neighborhoods, but this is a coincidence created by this very concept. The poor, all of them, are being rewarded for staying poor by our well-intended assistance programs. As they say, a rising tide lifts all boats. If we help all the poor, we help those brethren some see as a separate group.


this i did not know. i based my earlier examples on statistics that i thought were correct. assuming(which i am) that this statement is the correct one then my previous example has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with poverty.

[Xxena]

Double DITTO to the previous 5 - 6 posts from all of you.

RACISM is learned as well as taught but NO ONE IS BORN WITH IT.

Classic example - I grew up in the City of Chicago in a predominately white

working class neighborhood where all the European Immgrants seemed to move to and have their kids (or bring with them). My sister and I are first generation American as are my cousins on both sides of the family, all the adults were immigrants ! Not many minority groups where we lived BUT, the first people there were basically Germans, Scandanivians and a lot of Irish (the local cops and fireman). As the Italians and Poles started to move in you would have thought we were being invaded to hear my whippy mother and the other witches on the block talk... every farking stereotype you can think of about the Italians or the Pollocks were the general topic of discussion in our house and most of my friends by our parents. My mother the bleeding heart ultra Daley LIberal hates about everyone in the world except herself and lets no stone go unturned in her attacks on people, but she will tell you how open minded and liberal she is "just like Mayor Daley" *puke* !

We were junior high school age (didn't have junior high in Chicago in the late 60's) and the NEW BOY was a big tall, muscular BLOND boy from Polland and every 13 year old girl in heat was after this guy for the Halloween Dance. The naivety of the young.. no matter what things our parents said everyone accepted John for John. I remember being at some Mother - Daugther PTA thing at the school and my mother wanted me to point out that Filthy Pollock to her so she knew who his mother was... I told her it was the lady she was just chatting with trying to impress with the fact she (thinks) she knows everyone and everything.. :p

My first boyfriend in 8th grade was the neighborhood heartthrob a handsome Italian guy... when my parents found out I was grounded for life.. didn't matter he bounced from girlfriends on a bi weekly basis and by the time I was ungrounded 2 weeks later he was going steady with my best friend ! My father was a little hesitant about making their racism known fearing the Mafia would kill us all in the middle of the night if he openly said anything about the young guy. My parents had NO clue at that point that "dating" at that age was nothing more than holding hands on the way home from school and stealing a kiss here and there when no one was watching.. most of us were in love with the Beatles at that point and hoping for a marriage proposal from one of them !

People are so stupid and ridiculous as adults, I've strived so hard NOT be become my parents.. and thank goodness according to my kids I'm still the headheaded rebel at 50 I was in my teens .

My boyfriend all through highschool was Ukranian which my father's only comment was .. he's better than that damn wop she came home with in the beginning of Freshman year, at least he's white or at least looks it. By highschool almost half of the population of our immediate neighborhood was Italian and Eastern Europe, Poles, Ukranians, some Russians, alot of Czechs.... "the other white meat".. as my husand says (he's Polish/Ukranian and an immigrant to the USA). Our neighborhood was also almost 90% Catholic which would throw my mother into a frenzy just thinking about it. When I got into my teens and cocky as comes with that age, I used to remind her that Mayor Daley (Sr) was Catholic and she'd tell me I was stupid and to shut up. For someone that was so anti-catholic she was hardly the "Church Lady" of any other religion but that's mom... know it all and bash it all !

In college the young guy I met and eventally became engaged to was Tall, blonde as could be and blue eyed... MY PARENTS LOVED HIM... First thing out of my father's mouth was.. Are you Swedish or Danish ?.. Neither he replied my people go so far back in the HIlls of Kentucky we're not sure where we started we're just

Hillbillies.. THAT was OK .. He was blond haired and blue eyed. He was also a lying, cheating SOB and I broke off the engagement 2 weeks before the wedding, my mother about killed me for "losing that nice blond boy who's probably Scandanivan like us"....and he's NOT CATHOLIC ! After that my parents gave up on me and that I'd ever marry a decent white man as my mother so delicately phrased it. ... oddest part is I/my family on both sides is 100% Swedish and everyone has hazel or brown eyes and light to medium brown hair, only blonde

in the whole lot is my Dad's cousin on his mother's side.

By 19 I thought it would be fun to give them heart attacks so all my "no no friends" that I would never bring home for fear of embasassing my friends or having their feelings hurt... with their permission, giving them prior advance notice about how predjuice my parents were... started to come by the house to meet me before we went out to where ever we were going.. I was asked to move out if I was going to associate with people like these.. LIKE WHAT I would say.. they are

friends, I'm not into marrying any of them.. we are friends and know each other from work and/or the local college I was attending part time in eves (like most of them).. they're good people, they work and go to school at night like me, they pay their bills, they don't break laws, they're not drunks or drug addicts so what's your problem with them ??? I was told to move out .. so I did ...

I was pretty emotionally burned by the failed engagement thing.. and refused to really date anyone for quite a while so when a dating situation was required one of my closest friends was a gay guy who was not in a position to "come out" in the early 70's as now.. so we did the facade for years of being boyfriend and girlfriend.. and were bugged continuously by his side and mine when we were going to get married and quit living in sin... yes, he was blond and blue eyed.. my parents criteria.. I was white, western european and my dad was making good money at that point.. his parents criteria, plus I was very polite and his mother being from the deep south demanded that his girlfriend/wife "be a lady".. if she only knew who he's been with the past 20 years .. well, at least his life partner is a doctor that would meet her criteria.

When Hubby and I got married 27 years ago we eloped... and had a small church wedding and reception the following spring at his parents insistance... my parents found out they literally disowned me after attending the wedding briefly and making a very hasty exit after dinner. I"m so glad my grandmother told my mother off like she did in front of everyone before they dragged grandma out of there, who was having a really good time. Over time my dad and my husband have become friends but my mother never misses a beat to get in her stupid ' you married that damn dirty pollock"... when shes' in one of her moods to bash someone. My life long gay buddy.. he was my maid of honor so to speak and happy to have the role... he and hubby have been friends since they met.. my best buddy's mother was devastated to find someone else married me and he let it happen, she died never knowing her son was gay.. as he said that would have killed her earlier so he just let it be.

SO for those that say White PEOPLE are racists againt minorities... they are..

moreso against their OWN WHITE minorities than any of those of color...first and

foremost.

Am I a racist that hates people that are not like me... Yes I am.. I hate people that

are stupid because its easy for them to be like that and always provides them an excuse for their short comings , I hate people that are lazy because its easier to whine and complain and wait for someone to do it for them, I hate people that use other people, especially those of their own race, for their monetary and influential gain while walking on people of their own.. which accounts for about every politican in the world and mostly, I hate people that will smile in your face while stabbing you in the back to get from you or via you what they want and never think twice about who they hurt in the process.. Yes I am very racist againt ALL those type of people... white, black, brown, yellow, purple, green, violet .. you get the idea !

Right now as a middle aged, white, middle class FEMALE I AM A MINORITY IN THIS COUNTRY... and you know what I"m going to do about it.. what I always do.. work, pay my way, ask no one else for anything and get involved with political activist groups that think before they act and make sense and waves when they do...

People that RACE BAIT was the worst racists of all ! NO one wins when these people get started.. they do more harm then they do good for anyone, especially the group(s) the claim to be defending.

[Accountable]

TenneseeGirl wrote: this i did not know. i based my earlier examples on statistics that i thought were correct. assuming(which i am) that this statement is the correct one then my previous example has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with poverty.
Oh it has something to do with racism, all right. Statistics tell whatever the statistician wants to say. Nothing is purely one way or the other. Racism is a huge reason so many blacks are poor. I'm an advocate of not using the same tool to dig them out of their hole. I'd rather help people learn to take care of themselves and take pride in the simple act of accomplishment.

[Xxena]

As a parent I tend to agree with what you said Arnold. I never understood my parents and their sich biased reactions towards people being immigrants themselves and KNOWING what it is like to be the new one, the odd one, the outcast basically and having to start at the bottom and work yourself slowly

up if you have the guts and the desire to do so.

As a "flower child" of the late 60's and 70's I will embarrasedly admit to acting

like one two.. although my husband says a few of the old pics of me the girls

fround from that time he wishes he had met " that hot little hippie chick" back then vrs. later when I was in my mid 20's.. but he's always been a sex monster so

that goes without saying (kidding, kidding)

I've been down the poltical path on both sides and found NEITHER to my liking or very comfortable.. I am a self described ultra independent moderate and I vote my conscience and the subject at hand which makes me cross over boundaries into either side at any given time depending on the topic/subject at hand. I find it hard to live in a "partisan world".. it makes no sense after the hundreds of people I've met over the years that are Lifelong Democrats or Republicns but have neither

ethnics nor morals that match the current group in office.. that just boggles my mind. My husband laughs every time John McCain comes on since he knows what

I'm going to say... "Pick a party John, pick a party"....

Both sides like to give the "ILLUSION" of being the race friendly group when in reality they BOTH RACE BAIT and have their Trojan Horses doing it for them, Jesse is one of the better known along with Louis F and a number of others. Here are men living in the absolute bloated obnoxious lap of luxury wanting for NOTHING for the rest of their lives and beyond yet telling people that don't know where tomorrow's meal or job is coming from .. "We feel your pain" and then they are escorted away by their armed body guards " just in case one of "their own" decides to get ticked off and pound on them or otherwise".. wisked away in their stretch limo's back to their multi million dollar mansions with their maids and butlers and other hired hands that do everything for them at their beaconing.. and to be fair since they are African American then we have the Rich White FOLK

that are not much better like the Kennedy's the Kerry's, the Gore's, the Bush's,

the Reagan's and so on and so forth... I don't hate any of these people from Jesse to the rest of the lot, but I do find them to be blatant hyprocrites when its not possible for them to say they "know how the other people feel" when they have never in their lives ever walked in their shoes or even remotely close to it..

CRAP pure unadulterated crap... and a nation hungry for celebrity and their adventures of being rich and famous fall for it time after time... We have become a society of Mushroom People and that is just wrong...

I've had friends from all sexual likes and dislikes, races, ethnic groups etc my whole life and I see them and think of them as "friends".. not my black friend or my gay friend or my lesbian friend.. I only noted that in previous post to make a point. I never introduce them or talk about them to those not knowing them with their speciific tag " gay, black, asian" etc... I'm sure they don't say My white middle aged straight female friend XXEna" and I would not insult them by doing that.

I do have a problem with Race mixing and I'm always very upfront about it but not for the reasons most people think or the Race Baiters are waiting to jump onto that comment about. 2 people love each other.. what they do as consenting adults is THEIR business. BUT I have seen and still see what the children of mixed marriages go through since, as we all know, kids can be more cruel than adults more often than not... and my heart just aches for these kids and what is done and said to them. It might be 2005 but not a whole lot has changed on that front in many places and the kids get the brunt of the crap from it. And don't kid yourself people... as much as the Black community would like the world to believe that Whitie is the only one doing it and the worst creature on the planet for doing it... what is done within their own neighborhoods, communites etc to mixed children is as bad and often worst. THAT I know as a fact with my background as a street medic years back and after that working in the Trauma Unit of one of the biggest Hospital/Trauma centers in NW ILlinois !

NONE Of it is good, none of it is right and none of it from the abuse standpoint should be tolerated by anyone for any reason.. but.. the fact is we are all human and as humans we screw up continually - purposely or NOT !

Would I disown my daughters if they married outside of the caucasian race.. NO of course not, not any more than I would if they declared themselves to be bisexual or lesbians as long as they life a safe and healthy lifestyle and are good, productive people and choose mates that are the same way.

Do I catch myself making racial remarks in the heat of anger .. yes at times and I dare anyone of any other race to say they are 100% perfect and never say anything bad or stereotypical of white people either...

Do I blame the other minority races for what's being done to the taxpayers in this country which is outrageous since it emcompasses people of ALL races and ethnic groups, or for the reverse discrimination that is really blatant against White working and middle class Americans .. NO, not them personally, but I do blame the politicans that will pander to their outrageous activists and go overboard in attempting to make things "seem" equal for the sake of votes and a life term in office - I DO hold them accountable which makes them about the worst racists on the planet and their group is represented by ALL groups since you have a little bit of everything at any given time in Congress on both sides of the isle !

It boils down to people are people and you take the good with the bad and try to sort em out the best you can and do the best with what you're given to work with.

A little common sense would go a long way in this country and a RIP marker is desparetly needed for Political Correctness which will be the ultimate downfall of

the USA and the world at the pace we're allowing it to fester.

[Bez]

[quote=Accountable]Thanks, Arnold. Sooner or later, I'm going to take you and Bez seriously about my writing, then you'll be sorry! :wah:

quote]



WHAT ACC ?.... thought you'd started your literary career already....make a start while the sparks there....



On the question of racism...I'm with Arnold....I have strong views against racists but struggle with the words needed to express my feelings. Better to let the more eloquent among you say it for me. As I've stated before, I come into contact with many people at work who are not 'Anglo saxon'. Most of them are delightful people coming to find a better life in the UK. I DO hope that they find what they are looking for.

[Accountable]

Xxena, ever considering chucking the idea of "race" altogether?

[TenneseeGirl]

Accountable wrote: Oh it has something to do with racism, all right. Statistics tell whatever the statistician wants to say. Nothing is purely one way or the other. Racism is a huge reason so many blacks are poor. I'm an advocate of not using the same tool to dig them out of their hole. I'd rather help people learn to take care of themselves and take pride in the simple act of accomplishment.


Ok Acc i am a little tired so maybe i am not understanding the posts correctly... Can you please explain further how it is that the statistics are incorrect on the race factor(IE. how they do or do not accuratly reflect the bias of race and poverty). Also can you elaborate more on "not using the same tool to dig them out of their hole." Are you talking about the whole welfare concept and the whole concept of better funding for school based on your racial background? There are many ways to interpret this and i just want to make sure i understand you.

[Accountable]

TenneseeGirl wrote: Ok Acc i am a little tired so maybe i am not understanding the posts correctly... Can you please explain further how it is that the statistics are incorrect on the race factor(IE. how they do or do not accuratly reflect the bias of race and poverty). Also can you elaborate more on "not using the same tool to dig them out of their hole." Are you talking about the whole welfare concept and the whole concept of better funding for school based on your racial background? There are many ways to interpret this and i just want to make sure i understand you.
Just as you say, the statistics reflect our historic bigotry against black people. The only difference is that we simply have more white people, therefore more poor white people. The more telling stat is that there are so many more poor black people than middle-income or rich black people. (I understand I need to pull out proof right now, but I'm being lazy)



The politicians tout the welfare programs as geared to help poor black families because they want to court the vote of the poor black families. They don't mention poor white families because of one of two things, as I see it. Either (1) they don't need the poor white vote because they already have the middle-class & rich white vote, or (2) they, as society at large, hear "black" and think "poor" and hear "white" and think, well, "white." The programs themselves provide more than lower-middle-class families can afford. Simple math shows it's detrimental to go out and work. It doesn't matter the color of the poor family, but the politicians, advocates, and news agencies only see black.



The analogy of using the same tool alluded to the use of color-biased programs to fix the damage caused by previous color-biased practices. I wrote a paper in college about affirmative action. The introduction was a scenario I wrote with the paper setup in two columns. Both columns told the same story about a man who had worked hard, tested, and won a big promotion. The stories were identically word-for-word, until they got to the co-workers' reactions. One story had the guys either proud or jealous of the white promotee, but acknowledging that he deserved the promotion. The other story ended with the co-workers and promotee as well wondering how much the promotion depended on the affirmative action program. In other words, did he really deserve it? The point, of course is that the problem with fighting fire with fire is that you still get burned.



I hope this helps. I don't like writing long posts because I have problems focusing on the subject at hand and sometimes ramble.

[TenneseeGirl]

i tend to rambel too. I just wanted to make sure that we were on the same page before i went about saying this and that. I believe that the core issue is the powers that be are still the powers that be. they need a makeover.

On the sbject of equality a good short story to illustrate why the concept is flawed that i think everyone should read is "harrison Bergeron" by Kurt Vonnegut(sp?) it discusses the fundemental flaw with the concept of equality. have you read it?

(not quite sure what this has to do with this thread)

ok i am going to quit before i drop out of the race entirely--

[Xxena]

Accountable wrote: Xxena, ever considering chucking the idea of "race" altogether?


Me personally... I did that years ago.. but the media and politics cannot afford to drop it or their reason to be there all but disappears !

I see people in categories as people.. useful people that use the brains in their heads to the best of their ability and what they have at hand.. people that by the act of birth, illness or injury that are disabled and need assistance, some more than others but should not be pitied but helped to be useful beings that inturn develope self confidence and self esteem, people that are weak in spirit and self discipline and self esteem that need to be helped to learn how to gain those attributes so they are not a debt on society and then just the useless **** on 2 legs that doesn't matter what you do for them in any way will always be the scum of society for whatever reason, that group definitely includes the users and abusers of others for their own self gain as well as the rich and mightly that take advantage of those with less than them in any category. Those categories cross all sexes, races and ethnic groups and of course there are subcategories in each since people are so different for different reasons, often beyond their control. Basically like people themselves - no two are alike and each has to be taken on its own merits or lack of.

Poverty is probably the biggest contributor to the evils of our and most societies..

unfortunately the New Media in any manner is always about the bad, seldom if ever the good so they will fixate on groups of people and areas where you get the most bloody, gory and desparate news items.

Tonight for instance it was all about the gang shootings, stabbings etc in the inner city of Chicago which leaves a bad taste in most people's mouth and disdain for the people in those areas whatever race or ethnic group they are. Unfortunately most of the people watching never go into those areas so they are not aware that although the gangs are the scum of the earth there are a hell of a lot of hard working, working class poor as the're called, that are good and decent people just trying to get by like the rest of us and they are the silent victims being overshadowed by the stereotype of the monsters that get all the news time. SAme with White America.. most of us are just hard working people trying to get by and we do not wish anyone harm or look down on others less fortunate than us, BUT you have the jerkoffs that happen to be white that say and do horrible things to other non-white people and that sets the stage for the whole race hate issue we are talking about here and have been for much much too long.

People need to understand that Politics is about MONEY and POWER... and in order to maintain the status quo one achieves in political circles you must have a way of keeping the general public off guard and out of your business.. so what's the best way to do that ..find a way to pit them against each other and keep fueling those fires and they forget about YOU cuz they're too busy hating and trying to out harm each other.. been going on since the recording of history and it will as long as we suck 02 on this planet... if we don't blow ourselves up first.

Ever hear of the term, sarcastically speaking.. "Benovelent Dictator".. think of the actual definition of those two words and then combined they make the perfect

oxymoron of our world political system including ours here at home...

[pantsonfire321@aol.com]

Question - if the black and asian community are underachieving and not getting the same help and opportunites as white people why is my child one of only THREE english white kids in her collage class.

[Accountable]

pantsonfire321@aol.com wrote: Question - if the black and asian community are underachieving and not getting the same help and opportunites as white people why is my child one of only THREE english white kids in her collage class.
Looks more like a pointed statement disguised as a question. As I understand it, Asians don't get the extra points (or whatever) that other categories get.



This does illustrate one point I was trying to make. These color-coded assistance programs leave everyone wondering if this classmate earned the right to pay a fortune for the class by good grades & a high SAT score, or was allowed in a back door by some assistance program.



Unintentional message: you can either bust your hump for a narrow chance at success, or you can laze around and stay broke so the gov't will pave the way for you. Some choice, eh?