China's view on Muslims...

[Oscar Namechange]

Because the Chinese direct their energy toward the future, and rarely focus on past grievances, their approach possibly offers more hope for a better life, in which their people’s standard of living increases, and China — from their point of view — takes what they regard as its rightful place on the world stage.

The Chinese, at behind-the-scenes conferences and discussions during the past few months, kept saying they were perplexed about the Muslim world’s – particularly the Arab world’s – inability to deal with the modern world. The Chinese and the Muslims, they repeated, had suffered the same humiliation and occupation by foreigners over the past two hundred years, but the Chinese and Muslim reactions to these experiences seem so completely different.

“We also suffered, the Chinese said, “but now we control our destiny, and are doing everything we can to learn from these foreigners so that we can benefit from the modern world and ensure that we do not suffer this humiliation again. We Chinese ‘look to the future.’

China: “despite everything we do for our Muslims, they continue to remain at the bottom of society — poor, backward and uneducated” — Winds Of Jihad By SheikYerMami





The Muslims, on the other hand, the Chinese stated, seem to have a different approach: Instead of looking to the future, they “are mired in the past, more concerned about taking revenge against those foreigners whom they believe had humiliated and oppressed them.

It was because of this focus on the past, these Chinese intellectuals and leaders stated, that Arabs and Muslims were therefore unable to build societies which could participate in the modern world. “Revenge and victimhood, these Chinese argued, could permanently cause “the Arabs and Muslim world to “remain behind the West and Asia.

These Chinese, many of whom had spent considerable time in the Muslim world and had gone to the trouble of becoming fluent in Arabic, Persian, and Turkish, asked why our Muslim friends are “obsessed (their word) with portraying themselves as victims. Victimhood, they said, gets people nowhere; what was necessary was to remember the past but put it behind you so that you could deal with contemporary problems.

The Chinese are practical: although they harbor deep resentment to what other cultures — specifically the Japanese — have done to them, they say that if they indulge in self-pity, they will never be able to improve their lot in this world.

The Islamic culture, however — and Middle Eastern culture in general — is acutely concerned with righting perceived wrongs. The Shari’a, in fact, sees the role of the ruler as one who “commands good and eradicates evil — meaning it is more important to “correct past wrongs than to think about how to improve one’s situation. First one must correct the evil, and only then may one concentrate on how to have a better life. Saddam Hussein and Bashar al-Assad have focused much of their time and money fighting their enemies rather than building their societies. The Americans, before they invaded Iraq, tried to negotiate with Saddam to find a way to stop him from developing weapons of mass destruction and intimidating his neighbors, but Saddam would not compromise. To do so, from his point of view, would have shamed him, a condition to be avoided at all costs. Bashar al-Assad now seems committed to doing the same. Fighting evil, in their eyes, is a never-ending battle: they cannot – nor can, for that matter, the Palestinians — put their past perceived wrongs behind them. They therefore cannot turn their attention to any future. Middle Eastern leaders might want to eliminate Israel, or hire engineers to build buildings, but anything more elaborate requires importing foreigners – mostly Westerners or Asians for building airports, highways, or whatever.

[Scrat]

I think that his assessment of the Chinese is correct although there are elements in their society that cling to past injustices. What he is omitting is how those elements are used in realpolitik. When the time is right those grievances will be allowed to come to light and used as convenient excuses for whatever needs to be justified. America does it all of the time on whatever scale is needed. America cannot get over the taking of hostages during the Carter administration, you don't hear it everyday but when we get the cajones to go after them we will certainly use it as a reason to justify our aggression among others, factual and true or not. You can find powers using excuses for aggression all through history, it's just another tool politicos use to go to war.

The Muslims of our world come in many stripes. Kazakhs are mostly Muslims, but they are not radicals. The same with many others. Kazakhs do not go to prayer 5 times a day and they sure as hell don't like Chechens or the Saudis. They have high technology and all of that stuff too. The wests Muslims I believe are a kept people. The west keeps certain regimes in power and the people "happy". This is more a form of slavery than anything else, if they don't advance industrially they will not be a threat. In fact they will be dependent. The fact that the Shites of Iran think more like the Kazakhs and have a desire and motivation to progress makes them a threat to the west.

It's a good and informative piece but it lacks a lot of depth.

[Oscar Namechange]

I read this article with a great deal of Interest because It related to a recent experience of mine....

I had a school run last month with a 20 something year old British born Muslim of Pakistan descent. It meant spending up to 5 hours a day with him In the car.... It started off pleasant enough but as time went on, his ranting got worse and worse to the point It was Insulting. His head was just full of conspiricy but it was the real hatred simmering Inside him on anything to do with my country and the West. I have never actually encountered that kind of simmering resentment, anger and hatred. In the end I asked him who was feeding him the untruths he had been told and he said It was his Imam at the mosque..... for the first time I really understood the hatred that leads some British born Muslims to plot to blow us up.

Yes, the article lacks some depth but I was very Interested to read of the Asian view.

[Scrat]

Honestly Oscar I think Muslims have good reason to feel the way they do. The relationship between the Muslim world and the west has been one of aggression and subjugation going back thousands of years. Europeans had the crusades, look at the Romans. Alexander the Great is not seen as such in many parts of the Muslim world.

The wests inability to accept responsibility for things done and for things being done will only make the situation worse. Did you ever wonder why Britain allows those Imams to say what they do? It's because they serve a purpose.

There was a Kazan Imam assassinated last year in Russia. He preached peace. Another Imam in Ingushetia had ordered his death. He isn't alive any more, someone (I suspect the Russian FSB) abducted him on the street and he has not been heard from since.

[Oscar Namechange]

Scrat;1423027 wrote: Honestly Oscar I think Muslims have good reason to feel the way they do. The relationship between the Muslim world and the west has been one of aggression and subjugation going back thousands of years. Europeans had the crusades, look at the Romans. Alexander the Great is not seen as such in many parts of the Muslim world.

The wests inability to accept responsibility for things done and for things being done will only make the situation worse. Did you ever wonder why Britain allows those Imams to say what they do? It's because they serve a purpose.

There was a Kazan Imam assassinated last year in Russia. He preached peace. Another Imam in Ingushetia had ordered his death. He isn't alive any more, someone (I suspect the Russian FSB) abducted him on the street and he has not been heard from since.


We could all argue the toss over who did what, what crusades, what Injustices etc etc but In this day and age, for me, I find much of the Muslim faith and attitudes toward the West as hypocrisy.

Here In the UK, they call for Sharia law which keeps women as second class citizens yet lap up our technology and lifestyle.

Also argued as the religion of peace, for me, far from It...

From my own experience, I also find that Muslims are more likely to blame their own failings and lack of prosperity on the West and that's why I found the Chinese view so Interesting. Little education, fundamentalism and corruption within governments also add to this.

You only have to look at the Sunni/Shea divide to see most troubles In the ME not so much the West's Intervention...

[LarsMac]

Dragging the past along with us has been a deterrent to improving the human condition since the days of Eden.

The Muslims are their own worst enemy.

Alexander was long buried, and even the Roman empire was dust before Mohammad was a twinkle in his daddy's eye, and yet the Muslims continue to whine about the evils done to their ancestors.