Seven dead and 51 injured in horrific M5 crash | UK news | guardian.co.uk
Returning from Wooton Bassett early this evening, the junctions were still closed.
My thoughts are with the families.
Horrific Pile Up on M5
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Horrific Pile Up on M5
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Horrific Pile Up on M5
Mine are too.
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
Horrific Pile Up on M5
RIP.
Police could not say whether the fireworks display might have been a factor, but Bangham said it was "certainly something we'll be looking at closely".
He said: "There's a number of factors that came into play. It was dark – it was about 8.25pm – it was particularly poor weather last night: we had fog banks on the motorway and we also had wet surface issues.
"We had in particular ground water in the Bridgwater area which we were dealing with.
"There were also other factors coming into play: there were events going on in the evening and of course we need to have a very close look at what was going on in the area that may have caused some sort of distraction."
Rubber Neckers?
Police could not say whether the fireworks display might have been a factor, but Bangham said it was "certainly something we'll be looking at closely".
He said: "There's a number of factors that came into play. It was dark – it was about 8.25pm – it was particularly poor weather last night: we had fog banks on the motorway and we also had wet surface issues.
"We had in particular ground water in the Bridgwater area which we were dealing with.
"There were also other factors coming into play: there were events going on in the evening and of course we need to have a very close look at what was going on in the area that may have caused some sort of distraction."
Rubber Neckers?
Horrific Pile Up on M5
Scrat;1374579 wrote: RIP.
Rubber Neckers?
That would cause accidents going the other way. Perhaps a sudden fog bank and people jamming on the brakes or their had been heavy rain someone might have aquaplaned and lost control. I think it will end any discussion about increasing the speed limit.
Rubber Neckers?
That would cause accidents going the other way. Perhaps a sudden fog bank and people jamming on the brakes or their had been heavy rain someone might have aquaplaned and lost control. I think it will end any discussion about increasing the speed limit.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Horrific Pile Up on M5
gmc;1374581 wrote: That would cause accidents going the other way. Perhaps a sudden fog bank and people jamming on the brakes or their had been heavy rain someone might have aquaplaned and lost control. I think it will end any discussion about increasing the speed limit.
I was alerted to this last night when It had just happened. A good friend of mine was on that stretch about 15 minutes behind the pile up. I saw him today and he Is still In shock..... He told me that It was Fog and the speed of some drivers In that Fog.
I was alerted to this last night when It had just happened. A good friend of mine was on that stretch about 15 minutes behind the pile up. I saw him today and he Is still In shock..... He told me that It was Fog and the speed of some drivers In that Fog.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Horrific Pile Up on M5
oscar;1374582 wrote: I was alerted to this last night when It had just happened. A good friend of mine was on that stretch about 15 minutes behind the pile up. I saw him today and he Is still In shock..... He told me that It was Fog and the speed of some drivers In that Fog.
We had freezing fog last night perhaps it was a similar weather condition. I am inclined to think this time of the year is most dangerous for driving, the roads aren't gritted and people aren't geared up to anticipating icy or slippery roads especially inexperienced drivers. Aquaplaning is a terrifying experience, I've done it once for what felt like forever and I swear my heart stopped, occasionally I've misjudged and skipped for a few yards as well. I change my tyres this time of year if they are below 3-4mm just on principle.
We had freezing fog last night perhaps it was a similar weather condition. I am inclined to think this time of the year is most dangerous for driving, the roads aren't gritted and people aren't geared up to anticipating icy or slippery roads especially inexperienced drivers. Aquaplaning is a terrifying experience, I've done it once for what felt like forever and I swear my heart stopped, occasionally I've misjudged and skipped for a few yards as well. I change my tyres this time of year if they are below 3-4mm just on principle.
Horrific Pile Up on M5
Anyone who's seen a thick slowly drifting bank of smoke created by a fireworks display will wonder, at this point, what conclusion the police will reach.
BBC News - M5 crash: Firework display is 'major line of inquiry'
BBC News - M5 crash: Firework display is 'major line of inquiry'
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Horrific Pile Up on M5
spot;1374693 wrote: Anyone who's seen a thick slowly drifting bank of smoke created by a fireworks display will wonder, at this point, what conclusion the police will reach.
BBC News - M5 crash: Firework display is 'major line of inquiry'
My friend believed at the time that It was Fog, however, of course, In the dark, he could have easily been mistaken.
Friday night I went out Into my garden for a free firework display due to the Round Table having a large display behind my house In one town and my village having another In front of my house. Thinking about It, especially at the grand finale, a thick wall of smoke covered my home from both sides for a brief time.
Very possibly, these drivers could have found similar and driven straight Into It.
There must be accountability and I would have thought having a large display so close to a main road was madness,
BBC News - M5 crash: Firework display is 'major line of inquiry'
My friend believed at the time that It was Fog, however, of course, In the dark, he could have easily been mistaken.
Friday night I went out Into my garden for a free firework display due to the Round Table having a large display behind my house In one town and my village having another In front of my house. Thinking about It, especially at the grand finale, a thick wall of smoke covered my home from both sides for a brief time.
Very possibly, these drivers could have found similar and driven straight Into It.
There must be accountability and I would have thought having a large display so close to a main road was madness,
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Horrific Pile Up on M5
There was a lot of patchy fog as well as fireworks displays in Somerset on Friday night. More witnesses are saying the particular bank which caused the crash was smoke, according to the uniformed fellow on News 24 recently. The one smells of burning and the other doesn't, though after the crash that distinction's a bit immaterial.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Horrific Pile Up on M5
Smoke combining with fog would be like the lights going out without warning.
-
fuzzywuzzy
- Posts: 6596
- Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:35 pm
Horrific Pile Up on M5
I hate fog/mist patches ...one minute the road is there, the next it's not . But you adjust your driving accordingly.
that's certainly a bad one though .
that's certainly a bad one though .
Horrific Pile Up on M5
Tragedy to say the least! Hopefully, lessons will be learned to keep it from happening again! Very sad in deed.
Cars 
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Horrific Pile Up on M5
M5 crash: Motorists blame fireworks but organiser insists it's not his fault | Mail Online
It seems a huge row has broken out and the organiser of the firework display claims he Is being made a scapegoat.
As I said prior, I had two large organised displays at the front and back of my home friday night. Remembering how a thick cloud of black smoke descended on my house, albeit for a brief moment, I can see that It's entirely possible this could have been the cause added to the fog that night.
It seems a huge row has broken out and the organiser of the firework display claims he Is being made a scapegoat.
As I said prior, I had two large organised displays at the front and back of my home friday night. Remembering how a thick cloud of black smoke descended on my house, albeit for a brief moment, I can see that It's entirely possible this could have been the cause added to the fog that night.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Horrific Pile Up on M5
Do events like this not have fully insured professional designers responsible for their operation?
There's a difference between scapegoating and uncovering the facts.
There's a difference between scapegoating and uncovering the facts.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Horrific Pile Up on M5
spot;1374811 wrote: Do events like this not have fully insured professional designers responsible for their operation?
There's a difference between scapegoating and uncovering the facts.
You would think so but In this case I am not so sure. The Organiser Is claiming he Is being blamed which leads me to assume that he has sole responsibility.
There's a difference between scapegoating and uncovering the facts.
You would think so but In this case I am not so sure. The Organiser Is claiming he Is being blamed which leads me to assume that he has sole responsibility.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Horrific Pile Up on M5
oscar;1374813 wrote: You would think so but In this case I am not so sure. The Organiser Is claiming he Is being blamed which leads me to assume that he has sole responsibility.
Not at all. If the governing body appointed an organizer who wasn't a fully insured professional designer then I'd have thought the governing body would be for the high jump should the event prove responsible even in part for a catastrophic disaster of this magnitude, not that I'm saying the event was a factor in the crashes.
Not at all. If the governing body appointed an organizer who wasn't a fully insured professional designer then I'd have thought the governing body would be for the high jump should the event prove responsible even in part for a catastrophic disaster of this magnitude, not that I'm saying the event was a factor in the crashes.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Horrific Pile Up on M5
We might like to watch the concluding episode. BBC News - M5 crash deaths: Geoffrey Counsell trial to start Monday
I'll be interested to finally see the arguments laid out in black and white.
I'll be interested to finally see the arguments laid out in black and white.
Long Live General Kim Jong-un, the Shining Sun!
Horrific Pile Up on M5
The case progresses...Peter Blair QC, prosecuting, told the jury it was "no ordinary patch of fog that just happened to be there that evening".
"Essentially the prosecution say they experienced a loss of visibility, generated, we say, by a plume of smoke created by Mr Counsell from his firework display which had built up," he said. "It was dispersed because of the lack of wind mixed with the humid air and drifted in the direction of the motorway."
Mr Blair said a number of vehicles passed safely through the early stages of the smog - with some drivers later recalling the smell of firework smoke but the "next group were less fortunate. They were in the vehicles that ended up in a multi-vehicle pile-up," he said. "Some of them spoke of it as being as if someone had tipped a tin of paint over their windscreen. Their headlights had no effect whatsoever on penetrating what was in front of them. It was impossible to see what was ahead of them and the inevitable consequence was the multiple pile-up."
BBC News - M5 death crash: 'Firework smoke blocked drivers' view'
"Essentially the prosecution say they experienced a loss of visibility, generated, we say, by a plume of smoke created by Mr Counsell from his firework display which had built up," he said. "It was dispersed because of the lack of wind mixed with the humid air and drifted in the direction of the motorway."
Mr Blair said a number of vehicles passed safely through the early stages of the smog - with some drivers later recalling the smell of firework smoke but the "next group were less fortunate. They were in the vehicles that ended up in a multi-vehicle pile-up," he said. "Some of them spoke of it as being as if someone had tipped a tin of paint over their windscreen. Their headlights had no effect whatsoever on penetrating what was in front of them. It was impossible to see what was ahead of them and the inevitable consequence was the multiple pile-up."
BBC News - M5 death crash: 'Firework smoke blocked drivers' view'
Long Live General Kim Jong-un, the Shining Sun!
Horrific Pile Up on M5
I note the conclusion:
Speaking of his experience before the night of the crash, Mr Counsell said: "Before a final decision to go ahead with the display was taken, the Highways Agency, the Taunton Deane Borough Council and the Avon and Somerset Constabulary were consulted.
"All were informed of the fact and nature of the display. No objection of any kind was raised.
"The display was carried out without incident. It was a very foggy night and the fireworks produced some smoke, which would have mingled with the fog.
"However, I saw nothing to cause me to believe that any firework smoke would cause a hazard and I do not believe that it did so."
He said he believed the decision to prosecute him was "motivated by a desire to find someone to blame for this terrible accident, simply for the sake of doing so".
The judge, Mr Justice Simon, said the prosecution's case was based on "hindsight" and there was not sufficient evidence to show Mr Counsell ought to have foreseen that smoke could have drifted and mixed with fog to create thick smog.
BBC News - Fireworks crash contractor cleared of safety breach
I'm not sure what Mr Justice Simon thinks thick smog consists of, where it comes from or how it's formed. I recall winter days before the Clean Air Act and I most certainly remember.
The idea that any fireworks display can be held in a field adjacent to a motorway, fog or no fog, is in itself utter stupidity.
It disgusts me that nobody at all is prepared to accept some degree of responsibility for this avoidable carnage and to step forward and admit such a simple fact.
Speaking of his experience before the night of the crash, Mr Counsell said: "Before a final decision to go ahead with the display was taken, the Highways Agency, the Taunton Deane Borough Council and the Avon and Somerset Constabulary were consulted.
"All were informed of the fact and nature of the display. No objection of any kind was raised.
"The display was carried out without incident. It was a very foggy night and the fireworks produced some smoke, which would have mingled with the fog.
"However, I saw nothing to cause me to believe that any firework smoke would cause a hazard and I do not believe that it did so."
He said he believed the decision to prosecute him was "motivated by a desire to find someone to blame for this terrible accident, simply for the sake of doing so".
The judge, Mr Justice Simon, said the prosecution's case was based on "hindsight" and there was not sufficient evidence to show Mr Counsell ought to have foreseen that smoke could have drifted and mixed with fog to create thick smog.
BBC News - Fireworks crash contractor cleared of safety breach
I'm not sure what Mr Justice Simon thinks thick smog consists of, where it comes from or how it's formed. I recall winter days before the Clean Air Act and I most certainly remember.
The idea that any fireworks display can be held in a field adjacent to a motorway, fog or no fog, is in itself utter stupidity.
It disgusts me that nobody at all is prepared to accept some degree of responsibility for this avoidable carnage and to step forward and admit such a simple fact.
Long Live General Kim Jong-un, the Shining Sun!
Horrific Pile Up on M5
So, did the accident actually happen while the Fireworks display was taking place?
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Horrific Pile Up on M5
LarsMac;1443890 wrote: So, did the accident actually happen while the Fireworks display was taking place? Yes
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Horrific Pile Up on M5
I note that the inquest has resumed. The details are horrifying.
Somerset M5 pile-up: Lorry struck three times in five seconds
in particular, "On Monday the court heard from a number of witnesses who drove past Taunton on the motorway within an hour of the crash. Many described a smell of gunpowder and driving into a 'wall' of fog."
Somerset M5 pile-up: Lorry struck three times in five seconds
in particular, "On Monday the court heard from a number of witnesses who drove past Taunton on the motorway within an hour of the crash. Many described a smell of gunpowder and driving into a 'wall' of fog."
Long Live General Kim Jong-un, the Shining Sun!