Amazon online retailer

[Bruv]

Did anyone catch Panorama tonight concerning Amazon ?

Apart from the fact they are closing down High st businesses, they treat their staff like shite.

The work load to 'pick' so many items per shift is bordering on impossible, the regime is inflexible and harmful to staff.

For taking a day off through illness they get a mark against them, half a day off half a mark, 2 minutes late half a mark, 3 marks and you are sacked.

I have praised Amazon after using them as they are good at delivering what they promise, I shall never use them again after watching this program.

[Lone Wolf]

it didnt really surprise me , maybe a little worse than expected , Bigger the company in my experience worse they are i have yet to find a decent place to work, last place i worked we rarely got break's , and expected to talk like robots to customers of a ' sheet speak ' and got moaned at if we spent more than half hour with a customer . place im at now is just plane silly been there 4 months now no training, i had my first review few week ago, i kept my mouth shut but was expected to improve by next time , but no plan was put together to improve things , i think its partly down to a bad manager , but even so its not good , next review if he moans i have plenty of ammunition to fire back at him ....i one of the lucky ones as i have very little responsibilities so i can walk out of jobs if i get fed up of been treated badly

LW

[gmc]

I've never used them just as a matter of principle. They're a monopoly and take all the profits out of the country and don't pay tax on them. The government should shut them down for that reason alone. The notion that they would not be replaced by a competitor is absurd as is the on hat they would walk away from those kind of profits.

[Snowfire]

I have been a regular user for years. As Bruv says they deliver a great service. I'm now looking to find an alternative to Amazon. I can't justify continuing with using them

[Ahso!]

gmc;1441528 wrote: I've never used them just as a matter of principle. They're a monopoly and take all the profits out of the country and don't pay tax on them. The government should shut them down for that reason alone. The notion that they would not be replaced by a competitor is absurd as is the on hat they would walk away from those kind of profits.Amazon's the second retailer you've labeled a monopoly (Walmart was the other). It seems to be a misapplication of the word to me. Would you mind enlightening me as to what qualifies either Amazon or Walmart as monopolies?

Definition from Google: mo·nop·o·ly

məˈnäpəlē/

noun

noun: monopoly; plural noun: monopolies; noun: Monopoly

1.

the exclusive possession or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service.

"his likely motive was to protect his regional monopoly on furs"

And from wiki in case you are erroneously thinking that size is what characterizes a company as a monopoly.

A monopoly (from Greek monos μόνος (alone or single) + polein πωλεῖν (to sell)) exists when a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular commodity (this contrasts with a monopsony which relates to a single entity's control of a market to purchase a good or service, and with oligopoly which consists of a few entities dominating an industry).[2] Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition to produce the good or service and a lack of viable substitute goods. The verb "monopolize" refers to the process by which a company gains the ability to raise prices or exclude competitors. In economics, a monopoly is a single seller. In law, a monopoly is a business entity that has significant market power, that is, the power to charge high prices.[4] Although monopolies may be big businesses, size is not a characteristic of a monopoly. A small business may still have the power to raise prices in a small industry (or market).[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly

As you can see from the last sentence in the wiki quote the motivation to monopolize a market is to raise prices. In the case of Walmart and Amazon, both work to maintain low prices on the goods they sell. And nothing is exclusive with either of them.

[Bruv]

In my defence I used them some time ago.

I have worked for some bad bosses, but these sort of set ups take it to a new level, the staff are dispensible, inconsequential, I can't see how the lower management can work to their rules knowing it could be them next time.

[Snowfire]

Its difficult as a lot of online bookstores are owned by Amazon (Book Depository, Abe Books). One suggestion is to look at the sellers on the Amazon store that are selling at a good price, then go directly to their websites.

I think it might be a good idea to share here some of the online shopping sites.

John Lewis is one that has been suggested on the web. I wonder how competitive they are

[Ahso!]

Snowfire;1441533 wrote: Its difficult as a lot of online bookstores are owned by Amazon (Book Depository, Abe Books). One suggestion is to look at the sellers on the Amazon store that are selling at a good price, then go directly to their websites.

I think it might be a good idea to share here some of the online shopping sites.

John Lewis is one that has been suggested on the web. I wonder how competitive they areMany of the smaller retailers use drop-shippers and if that is the case it's possible that the drop-shipper practices the same management style as amazon.

[Bruv]

Ahso!;1441531 wrote: Amazon's the second retailer you've labeled a monopoly (Walmart was the other). It seems to be a misapplication of the word to me. Would you mind enlightening me as to what qualifies either Amazon or Walmart as monopolies?

Definition from Google: And from wiki in case you are erroneously thinking that size is what characterizes a company as a monopoly.

Monopoly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you can see from the last sentence in the wiki quote the motivation to monopolize a market is to raise prices. In the case of Walmart and Amazon, both work to maintain low prices on the goods they sell. And nothing is exclusive with either of them.


Stop nit picking you pratt.

Add to the argument .........put your point of view across.........don't just pick points of order/definitions of words, pull the thrust of the argument apart, don't keep on picking wording apart..............next it will be spelling and tongue poking to win points.

[Ahso!]

Words are important, bruv. Words are what we use to communicate with. Calling a pigeon a horse, which is essentially what gmc has done, makes for a confusing conversation.

This is exactly why we were sent to school and why we've send our children to school and why they send our grandchildren to school, isn't it? To get things like this sorted out. You wouldn't tell your grandchild that 2=2=5 is good enough because they wrote the numbers legibly enough, would you?

Use the correct words in order to have an adult conversation.

What is it you're looking for BTW, an up or down vote on amazon as an employer? Starting a poll seems to be a better way of doing that if that's what you're looking for and language doesn't matter.

[Snooz]

So is this just in the UK? I've never heard anything bad about Amazon here in the states.

[Snowfire]

Top 10 Reasons to Avoid Amazon.com - Trevor Griffey

Its just about everywhere

BBC News - Amazon workers face 'increased risk of mental illness'

[Ahso!]

Snowfire;1441544 wrote: Top 10 Reasons to Avoid Amazon.com - Trevor Griffey

Its just about everywhere

BBC News - Amazon workers face 'increased risk of mental illness'There are some policies that I'd like to see Amazon change, that's for sure. However, I don't see the problem that the second link proposes to the extent that it's being portrayed. When I was a teenager just before joining the military I worked in a warehouse very similar to that. A lot of on your feet and walking (and running). The work took a lot out of me for sure but not nearly as much as the military did nor as much as my own business does now.

The first link is over two years old and I'm going to find out how much has changed since it was written. But also, many of the claims are definitely hyperbolic.

[Snowfire]

As a former military man myself, I know full well the physical requirements of a soldier. It was expected. It's what I signed up to do. No shock there when I got balled at, beasted and had my best boots chucked out the window.

I wouldn't, however, expect to walk up to 11 hours a shift for a minimum wage and work in fear of disciplinary action if you dropped below a certain level. These are Victorian workhouse conditions, for an employer with Victorian ideas and work ethics. I envisage a portly man in tails and top hat, hands behind his back, surveying all, from up high, while the tallyman accounts for the profits. Get back to work !

Personally I find it all very distasteful. A company that looks for ways not to pay their way and picks up their toys and moves on when they don't get to play the game by their rules. Is that really where we want to go ?

[Ahso!]

The retail business is a special breed, regardless of what's being sold. Here in the states the reason the day after Thanksgiving is referred to "black friday" is because of the traditional view that retail operates in the red and at a loss until the holidays arrive and the businesses then find themselves in a profitable position (black). So retail is a constant juggling act and a lot of borrowing for most of the year. Then by the time February rolls around retail stores and malls are like ghost towns.

I'd agree that the idea of a change from these pockets of shopping to a more consistent atmosphere would be preferable, but that's a cultural issue AFAICT.

[gmc]

Ahso!;1441531 wrote:

Monopoly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you can see from the last sentence in the wiki quote the motivation to monopolize a market is to raise prices. In the case of Walmart and Amazon, both work to maintain low prices on the goods they sell. And nothing is exclusive with either of them.


No the motivation is not simply to increase prices although it can of course be factor. You need to read things properly.

your definition from wikipedia

A monopoly (from Greek monos μόνος (alone or single) + polein πωλεῖν (to sell)) exists when a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular commodity (this contrasts with a monopsony which relates to a single entity's control of a market to purchase a good or service, and with oligopoly which consists of a few entities dominating an industry).[2] Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition to produce the good or service and a lack of viable substitute goods. The verb "monopolize" refers to the process by which a company gains the ability to raise prices or exclude competitors. In economics, a monopoly is a single seller. In law, a monopoly is a business entity that has significant market power, that is, the power to charge high prices.[4] Although monopolies may be big businesses, size is not a characteristic of a monopoly. A small business may still have the power to raise prices in a small industry (or market).[5]






Walmart are quite open about their intention to put independent retailers out of business. I think you are well aware of the extent to which they have succeeded and can now screw their suppliers to the floor just ask all those farmers and small manufacturers that now find they have no outlets for their goods unless they dance to the walmart tune and are out of business or been taken over as a consequence. Asda walmart in the UK have not been quite so successful as they face fierce competition

Walmart don't need to raise prices to make a profit. The net profit on food retailing is usually less than 10% walmart relies on turnover. They get the stiff in and sell it within a week or so but don't have to pay their supplier straight away they have 30, 60, 90 day credit from the supplier and their market position is such that they can force extended credit from suppliers. Effectively they force suppliers to finance them while the money they have taken sits in their bank accounts - any idea how much interest you get when it's millions you are banking? Non food the mark ups are higher but it's the same principle, most of the stuff in walmart stores now will not have to be paid for till 2014.

The illusion that walmart acts to keep prices low for the benefit of the consumer is just that a well constructed illusion. They act to make profit for their shareholders. It's a de facto monopoly however many semantic hairs you want to split over it.

Amazon is as well, they have the advantage of being one of the first on line retailers the cost for a competitor to enter the market now is so astronomical as to be almost impossible. They also systematically undercut rival on line retailers - all in a spirit of healthy competition- till there are effectively none left. Like walmart they also have the large turnover and extended credit from suppliers who increasingly find themselves sitting at the negotiating table with their proverbial balls in a vice. Do business on amazons terms or don't do business.

You can add microsoft and apple to the list as well. The US has some of the toughest anti-trust laws on the planet but they need to be applied to be effective. Aropund the world microsoft is beein fined and told to behave itself by countries that don't like monopolistic behaviours or companies that try and use patent law to stifle competition. search google you can find a long list of fines imposed on microsoft.

In the US you seem to have a number of right wing pundits that seem to think monopolies are a sign that a business is successful and it is a natural feature of capitalism. It's not, they will eventually destroy a capitalist economy and I think you could put a pretty good case that that is what is happening, both in the US, and here cheered on by politicians in the hand of the biggest payer. Whether that will continue is another question - personally I don't think it will or we're all up **** creek.

Amazon are shitty employers. Thanks to our wonderful tory government employers can ask if employees wish to opt out of the European working time directive which laid down condition about working hours, overtime payments and special payment for unsocial hours - night shift and the like. Your choice as an employee is either accept the option or look for a different job. Only a complete idiot thinks that is giving employees the choice. Things might change there are signs people are becoming e bolshie again - with this crap[ I will not put up.

posted by ahso

Use the correct words in order to have an adult conversation.


It's not just the words that matter it's the attitude with which you use them.

posted by snowfire

Personally I find it all very distasteful. A company that looks for ways not to pay their way and picks up their toys and moves on when they don't get to play the game by their rules. Is that really where we want to go ?


Would that we had politicians not frightened by companies throwing the dummy out the pram and caving in at every opportunity.

Amazon has a big distribution depot in fife - guess who gave them the regional development grant to build the place. - that's right the UK taxpayer. You couldn't make it up could you no one would believe it.

[Snooz]

Recent reviews by employees, mostly favorable. Many mention it's hard work but then most of the jobs I had when I was young were pretty hard. I worked in the men's clothing stockroom at KMart, slinging boxes full of fat man jeans that weighed a LOT and I enjoyed the hell out of that job. I couldn't do it now but it was great for a young woman.

Amazon.com Employee Reviews | Indeed.com

[Ahso!]

Walmart is not a monopoly, gmc, and neither is amazon. They both have plenty of competition and, ironically enough, compete with each other. Everything you described in your post is what every retailer attempts to do, ie, quick turnover, supplier financing and so forth. That's retail, that's how it works. Perhaps there's a cultural divide here. But while I'd like t see all retail businesses do better within their communities and raise wages, I understand the business end of their decision making. Would I make the same decisions they do? I don't know.

[fuzzywuzzy]

These 10 Corporations Control Almost Everything You Buy | True Activist

[fuzzywuzzy]

Revealed – the capitalist network that runs the world - physics-math - 19 October 2011 - New Scientist

[gmc]

Ahso!;1441591 wrote: Walmart is not a monopoly, gmc, and neither is amazon. They both have plenty of competition and, ironically enough, compete with each other. Everything you described in your post is what every retailer attempts to do, ie, quick turnover, supplier financing and so forth. That's retail, that's how it works. Perhaps there's a cultural divide here. But while I'd like t see all retail businesses do better within their communities and raise wages, I understand the business end of their decision making. Would I make the same decisions they do? I don't know.


I didn't think you would get the point. You don't even take in the definitions you your self post, maybe you are hung up on the notion a monopoly automatically charges high prices.

In economics, a monopoly is a single seller. In law, a monopoly is a business entity that has significant market power, that is, the power to charge high prices.[4] Although monopolies may be big businesses, size is not a characteristic of a monopoly. A small business may still have the power to raise prices in a small industry (or market).[5]






Retail businesses need a population with disposable income to survive. Walmart is helping kill the financial well being of it's home nation people buy from them because they are cheap - they no longer have high paying jobs because manufacturing has moved abroad. I assume you didn't bother reading the article I gave a link to since you haven't commented on it. If you want to discuss something you need to come up with something better than just saying you disagree. You haven't actually answered any of the points I made. Walmart openly aim to put competitors out of business, they openly screw suppliers to the floor and put them put of business buying abroad if they can't or won't dance to their tune. It's behaviour that has done a lot of harm to the American economy but you produce no counter arguments. What have they actually done to help manufacturing in the US?

As to amazon,the way they treat their staff and pay low wages despite the vast profit is immoral imo. It's also bad management that will eventually cause discontent and strikes. We don't need to put up with that crap.

[fuzzywuzzy]

maybe the people who own the prisons own Amazon as well. When ever I've wanted to send a book or newspaper to anyone in overseas prisons I HAVE to do it through amazon..... security reasons apparently . Now there's a lark .

[Ahso!]

gmc;1441732 wrote:

Retail businesses need a population with disposable income to survive. Walmart is helping kill the financial well being of it's home nation people buy from them because they are cheap - they no longer have high paying jobs because manufacturing has moved abroad.What are you trying to say here? Assuming you intended to insert a period between 'nation' and 'people' - Retail includes essentials such as towels and soaps and so on and not only unnecessary gadgets. Walmart nor any other retailer has sent manufacturing overseas, thats a more complex issue than you apparently realize. The majority of consistent Walmart shoppers buy there because it's what they can afford, not simply because Walmart is a cheap alternative. gmc;1441732 wrote: You haven't actually answered any of the points I made.I did actually when I said that that's how retail operates, you just didn't understand it. So I'll address each 'point' for you.gmc;1441732 wrote: Walmart openly aim to put competitors out of business,That's retail, every one of them seek to gain more market share within their given demographics and particular niche. Walmart is large and you appear hung up on that fact. This does not qualify Walmart as a monopoly. gmc;1441732 wrote: they openly screw suppliers to the floor and put them put of business buying abroad if they can't or won't dance to their tune.All suppliers are subject to the same market forces. You seem to think that if Walmart doesn't buy from a supplier no other retailer will either. If that is indeed the case then the supplier is obviously not fit for this current economy. That's the nature of this system - businesses come and go on a pretty regular basis. This, however, does not qualify Walmart as a monopoly. gmc;1441732 wrote: It's behaviour that has done a lot of harm to the American economy but you produce no counter arguments. What have they actually done to help manufacturing in the US? Like it or not, Walmart has given jobs to people who would otherwise have none. That said, Walmart has a vested interest in keeping people's income low.The reason? So those shoppers cannot afford other competitor's goods. Do I like that fact? No! Does that make Walmart a monopoly? No!

gmc;1441732 wrote: As to amazon,the way they treat their staff and pay low wages despite the vast profit is immoral imo. It's also bad management that will eventually cause discontent and strikes. We don't need to put up with that crap.America's not for feeble individuals. It's a tough place, I admit that, but nothing you've said substantiate your claim that either of these retailers are a monopoly.

The management style and philosophy of American businesses are tailored to the culture and its economy. You'd probably think many of America's businesses are abusive. You'd be correct in some cases, but not most. We do try to clean things up as they're uncovered.

[Snooz]

Perhaps we have a higher work ethic over here.