Forced caesarean ?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:21 am

Essex social services have obtained a court order against a woman that allowed her to be forcibly sedated and for her child to be taken from her womb by caesarean section

The baby girl, now 15 months old, is still in the care of social services, who are refusing to give her back to the mother, even though she claims to have made a full recovery

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:48 am

Wow. THAT is just about the most bizarre report of gummint over-stepping its authority that I have heard.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:25 am

I don't understand this one at all & in Britain?? Bizarre, that fits. Keep us updated please Bruv.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:26 am

It is one of those that the Headline might be a little mis leading.

Just giving a very one sided point of view with no back ground, there has to more involved............doesn't there?

There is more background via a link on that page....Here

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:48 pm

This new description is equally horrifying.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:58 pm

Holy ****!!!!

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:11 pm

Wow, very few actual facts. Did this lady stop taking her medication due to her pregnancy and a fear that the medication could harm the baby, did she make a conscious decision not to take it to protect her baby?

Speechless, what are our social services doing making life changing decisions on someone that doesn't actually live here!

Seems to be the bipolar condition is what flagged this case up for social services, yet more evidence that our society just doesn't know how to cope with mental illness.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:32 pm

Betty Boop;1441962 wrote: Wow, very few actual facts.

Most of it down to a quick telephone conversation between a policeman and the ladies mother in Italy.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:57 pm

I don't get it ...why is the british government holding a baby ? Isn't it up to Italian social services to work all this out? But forcing a casaer???? How is anyone allowed to perform any operation on a person without their consent ........and even beyond that how can they perform surgery in this matter alone? I'm gobsmacked!!!! I have no words I'm bereft of speech. My brain wont even construct a thought beyond forced casear......it's like totalitarian Nazi, facist, Gulag etc etc etc

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:38 am

fuzzywuzzy;1441977 wrote: I don't get it ...why is the british government holding a baby ? Isn't it up to Italian social services to work all this out? But forcing a casaer???? How is anyone allowed to perform any operation on a person without their consent ........and even beyond that how can they perform surgery in this matter alone? I'm gobsmacked!!!! I have no words I'm bereft of speech. My brain wont even construct a thought beyond forced casear......it's like totalitarian Nazi, facist, Gulag etc etc etc

Just a side comment.

Like most western countries, each agency works independently of the overall government, so what one bureaucrat does is not necessarily an reflection on the entire government philosophy.

Would be interested to know how high up the ladder at Child services this thing actually went.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:42 pm

LarsMac;1441988 wrote: Just a side comment.

Like most western countries, each agency works independently of the overall government, so what one bureaucrat does is not necessarily an reflection on the entire government philosophy.

Would be interested to know how high up the ladder at Child services this thing actually went.

I wonder on what grounds the doctor did the operation on, surely can't be the recomendations of a social worker?

Post by **Betty Boop** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:08 pm

Bruv;1442008 wrote: I wonder on what grounds the doctor did the operation on, surely can't be the recomendations of a social worker?

She was sectioned so I guess they did it on the grounds that she was unfit to make her own decisions due to the fact she was bipolar and had stopped taking her medication. Guessing the decision would have had to have been made by a team of psychiatrists/doctors etc.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:44 pm

You are all missing the point that this was carried out after a court order. Social Services can not just sedate and cut open pregnant women.

The Judge would have had all the facts before granting permission for the court order to be Issued. SS's would have had to present a case to the courts and I suspect the finer details of that case have not been reported In the press. Only the judge knows. I suspect there was every good reason however abhorent the action was.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:10 pm

oscar;1442016 wrote: You are all missing the point that this was carried out after a court order. Social Services can not just sedate and cut open pregnant women.

The Judge would have had all the facts before granting permission for the court order to be Issued. SS's would have had to present a case to the courts and I suspect the finer details of that case have not been reported In the press. Only the judge knows. I suspect there was every good reason however abhorent the action was.

Not missing any point thanks. Being sectioned the mental health team get to provide choices, rather than give those choices to the patient they went to the courts. It stinks.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:40 pm

Wouldn't the wisest course of action been to return her to her homeland and family as soon as possible ?

Post by **Betty Boop** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:44 pm

Bruv;1442027 wrote: Wouldn't the wisest course of action been to return her to her homeland and family as soon as possible ?

Without a shadow of a doubt that is what should have happened. I expect a family member would have been happy to come and help her back to her homeland.

Can you imagine the outcry here if that happened to a British woman in any other place in the world!

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:59 pm

Betty Boop;1442023 wrote: Not missing any point thanks. Being sectioned the mental health team get to provide choices, rather than give those choices to the patient they went to the courts. It stinks.

Wether she was sectioned or not, SS's still had to present a case to the courts and ask a judge to give the order. He would not have done that unless he was In full possession of the facts, which we are not.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:08 pm

Bruv;1442027 wrote: Wouldn't the wisest course of action been to return her to her homeland and family as soon as possible ?

oscar;1442032 wrote: Wether she was sectioned or not, SS's still had to present a case to the courts and ask a judge to give the order. He would not have done that unless he was In full possession of the facts, which we are not.

She should have been returned home for Italy to decide. None of it should have happened in Britain in the first place.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:20 pm

If a court order is all that is needed, ya da ya da ya da........................why do they still have her baby? She has two other children. Police were able to talk to her mother and her eldest childs dad offered to care for the baby with his extended family......Doesn't sound to me as if she's alone and destitute.....Don't forget they have taken a baby from a mother and now control whether they can keep it as well. Adopting a child out without the consent of any family member.

And if they are allowed to do this then what's stopping them from forcing women of their choice to be implanted with a contraception?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:10 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1442132 wrote:

And if they are allowed to do this then what's stopping them from forcing women of their choice to be implanted with a contraception?

Didn't you know ? We already do It.

Judge criticises council for trying to force contraception on woman - Telegraph