At 79 years old, Carol Thebarge, a long-time substitute teacher, is out of work.
She was friends with about 250 current students on her Facebook page but that’s against school policy and she was told to ‘unfriend’ them.
“They gave me an ultimatum–either take them all off or you are terminated,†said Thebarge
Common sense failure?
Or abiding by sensible rules ?
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
Some school policies make no sense, some are obviously very important, and others seem neither but are just arbitrary. Add to that the fact that they vary widely from district to district and you have a maze that often snares unwary or inexperienced teachers.
My district has no policy on friending students, and I know some teachers who do, but I am and always have been very careful to separate my work life from my personal life, even before I became a teacher. (Just like I am extremely careful to never express personal views or politics in the classroom, Snowfire!:p) I suspect it goes back to the military when I had strict regulations against fraternization, or maybe it has to do with a certain girl I lived with and worked with until we drove each other crazy.:yh_silly
What ever the reason, I learned at an early age that mixing the two worlds just never works out. I not only don't friend students, I never give out my address or home phone number. I even park in a garage so that my highly recognizable truck can't be casually seen from the road. I value privacy and it's served me well. I'm content to just see them whenever I'm out on the town shopping. (And with over 8,000 ex-students in a town of 40,000 ....that's plenty often enough.):yh_tired
My district has no policy on friending students, and I know some teachers who do, but I am and always have been very careful to separate my work life from my personal life, even before I became a teacher. (Just like I am extremely careful to never express personal views or politics in the classroom, Snowfire!:p) I suspect it goes back to the military when I had strict regulations against fraternization, or maybe it has to do with a certain girl I lived with and worked with until we drove each other crazy.:yh_silly
What ever the reason, I learned at an early age that mixing the two worlds just never works out. I not only don't friend students, I never give out my address or home phone number. I even park in a garage so that my highly recognizable truck can't be casually seen from the road. I value privacy and it's served me well. I'm content to just see them whenever I'm out on the town shopping. (And with over 8,000 ex-students in a town of 40,000 ....that's plenty often enough.):yh_tired
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
I can fully understand the general rule when applied generally.
Young male or female Teachers being friendly with pupils could be construed wrongly, so the rule makes some sense for everyones protection.
But this lady is mature enough not to be in need of such concerns.
The rules could be waived in this instance I believe.
Why own a highly recognisable truck if you don't want to be recognised?
Young male or female Teachers being friendly with pupils could be construed wrongly, so the rule makes some sense for everyones protection.
But this lady is mature enough not to be in need of such concerns.
The rules could be waived in this instance I believe.
Why own a highly recognisable truck if you don't want to be recognised?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
Bruv;1451561 wrote:
Why own a highly recognisable truck if you don't want to be recognised?
I do want to be recognized when driving or at work. I do not want others to recognize where I live. I deal with some students that are severely emotionally disturbed. Some have been known to show up at other teacher's houses unexpectedly... and startlingly.(See: The Sixth Sense)
I avoid that problem by planning ahead.
Why own a highly recognisable truck if you don't want to be recognised?
I do want to be recognized when driving or at work. I do not want others to recognize where I live. I deal with some students that are severely emotionally disturbed. Some have been known to show up at other teacher's houses unexpectedly... and startlingly.(See: The Sixth Sense)
I avoid that problem by planning ahead.
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
Why on earth is any 79 year old still employed to teach at a secondary school? That makes no sense to me whatever. Is it related to a lack of pension provision?
Long Live General Kim Jong-un, the Shining Sun!
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
Týr;1451566 wrote: Why on earth is any 79 year old still employed to teach at a secondary school? That makes no sense to me whatever. Is it related to a lack of pension provision?
Pray why not ?
Pray why not ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
Bruv;1451572 wrote: Pray why not ?
Back before compulsory retirement I had lessons from at least two teachers who'd reached that age and I'm happy to generalize - they were inadequate teachers in several respects as a direct consequence of their age.
Back before compulsory retirement I had lessons from at least two teachers who'd reached that age and I'm happy to generalize - they were inadequate teachers in several respects as a direct consequence of their age.
Long Live General Kim Jong-un, the Shining Sun!
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
I would guess that is not the case in this instance.
I would expect a Teacher that still enjoys teaching at her age would be a good teacher and a valuable asset to any school.
The management might be using the FB ruling to ease her from the job because she is bad, who can say?
I would expect a Teacher that still enjoys teaching at her age would be a good teacher and a valuable asset to any school.
The management might be using the FB ruling to ease her from the job because she is bad, who can say?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
Bruv;1451574 wrote: I would guess that is not the case in this instance.
I would expect a Teacher that still enjoys teaching at her age would be a good teacher and a valuable asset to any school.
The management might be using the FB ruling to ease her from the job because she is bad, who can say?
For the record, she was a substitute teacher. The demands on a substitute are both harder and easier than a teacher's. They do not have to do any planning, reporting, or professional development. They can refuse to work on any day, and pick which jobs to take. (For example, High School students in an AP class are MUCH easier to handle than middle school students in a P.E. class, and don't even get me started on the sheer terror and hell a behavior disordered class can be.) On the other hand, students often treat them very disrespectfully and the pay is ridiculous. ($20 per hour here).
The demand for subs is ridiculous to the point that our staff often cover for each other by working our planning hours or doubling up classes. Turnover for subs is ridiculous as well. The upshot of that is that we take whoever we can get who can pass the background checks and is willing to work below the poverty line.
I would expect a Teacher that still enjoys teaching at her age would be a good teacher and a valuable asset to any school.
The management might be using the FB ruling to ease her from the job because she is bad, who can say?
For the record, she was a substitute teacher. The demands on a substitute are both harder and easier than a teacher's. They do not have to do any planning, reporting, or professional development. They can refuse to work on any day, and pick which jobs to take. (For example, High School students in an AP class are MUCH easier to handle than middle school students in a P.E. class, and don't even get me started on the sheer terror and hell a behavior disordered class can be.) On the other hand, students often treat them very disrespectfully and the pay is ridiculous. ($20 per hour here).
The demand for subs is ridiculous to the point that our staff often cover for each other by working our planning hours or doubling up classes. Turnover for subs is ridiculous as well. The upshot of that is that we take whoever we can get who can pass the background checks and is willing to work below the poverty line.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
I wouldn't have wanted a teacher that old... I preferred mine awake.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
Saint_;1451590 wrote: For the record, she was a substitute teacher. The demands on a substitute are both harder and easier than a teacher's. They do not have to do any planning, reporting, or professional development. They can refuse to work on any day, and pick which jobs to take. (For example, High School students in an AP class are MUCH easier to handle than middle school students in a P.E. class, and don't even get me started on the sheer terror and hell a behavior disordered class can be.) On the other hand, students often treat them very disrespectfully and the pay is ridiculous. ($20 per hour here).
The demand for subs is ridiculous to the point that our staff often cover for each other by working our planning hours or doubling up classes. Turnover for subs is ridiculous as well. The upshot of that is that we take whoever we can get who can pass the background checks and is willing to work below the poverty line.
So she could be rubbish?
But then again if she has so many wanting to befriend her she might be a bit special.
So there is a shortage of teachers in the US Saint?
The demand for subs is ridiculous to the point that our staff often cover for each other by working our planning hours or doubling up classes. Turnover for subs is ridiculous as well. The upshot of that is that we take whoever we can get who can pass the background checks and is willing to work below the poverty line.
So she could be rubbish?
But then again if she has so many wanting to befriend her she might be a bit special.
So there is a shortage of teachers in the US Saint?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
McOscar;1451594 wrote: I wouldn't have wanted a teacher that old... I preferred mine awake.
We are so different
We are so different
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
Bruv;1451601 wrote:
So there is a shortage of teachers in the US Saint?
Of nightmarish proportions: We are short over two million teachers and it's getting worse.
The shortage lies in the distribution of teachers. There are not enough teachers who are both qualified and willing to teach in urban and rural schools, particularly in those serving low-income students or students of color. There is also a shortage in certain geographic regions of the country, and there are not enough qualified individuals in particular specialties, such as special education, bilingual education, and the sciences (Bradley, 1999; NASBE, 1998). Some also argue that it is not an insufficient production of qualified teacher candidates that causes staff shortage, as conventional analyses maintain, but rather the high rates of teacher turnover (Ingersoll, 2000).
Researchers have compared the teaching profession to a revolving door (U.S. Department of Education, 2000). They argue that school staffing problems are caused not so much by an insufficient supply of qualified individuals, but by “too many teachers leaving teaching†(Ingersoll, 1997, p. 2). For example, a U.S. Department of Education study of students who earned college degrees in 1992–1993 found that nearly one out of five who graduated from college in that year and began teaching in the public schools by 1994–1995 had left the profession by 1996–1997 (Boser, 2000). Other studies have shown that approximately one-fourth of all beginning teachers leave the classroom within the first four years (Hare & Heap, 2001a).
Even more alarming than the turnover rates themselves are data suggesting that the most intelligent and effective teachers—the teachers that policymakers are most interested in retaining—leave the profession at the highest rates. In a study conducted in the Midwest, the majority of superintendents interviewed reported that from 75 to 100 percent of the teachers leaving classrooms are “highly effective†or “effective†(Hare & Heap, 2001b). Another study found that new teachers who scored in the top quartile on their college entrance exams are nearly twice as likely to leave teaching than those with lower scores (Boser, 2000).
What reasons do teachers cite for leaving their positions? Although retirement and school staffing cutbacks cause some teachers to leave, personal and family matters and job dissatisfaction are more frequently cited as reasons. According to Ingersoll (2000, 2001), 42 percent of all departees report leaving for job dissatisfaction or the desire to pursue a better job, another career, or better career opportunities. Those who report leaving because of job dissatisfaction cite low salaries, lack of support from school administration, lack of student motivation, student discipline problems, and lack of teacher influence over decision making as factors influencing their decisions.
Low salaries and lack of respect from the public also pose a challenge for teacher retention. Research shows that new teachers enter teaching primarily for its intrinsic or psychological rewards—that is, the opportunity to engage in meaningful work, the pleasure of working with children, and love of a particular subject area—rather than extrinsic rewards such as salary or public respect (Goodlad, 1984; Liu, Kardos, Kauffman, Peske, & Johnson, 2000; Lortie, 1975). However, although the extrinsic rewards may not attract people to the profession, lack of satisfaction with these rewards is frequently cited as a reason for leaving.
Let me be blunt: I absolutely love my job, and after 45,000 hours in a classroom, I'm damned good at it. But if you were to ask me if you should be a teacher, I wouldn't recommend it to you.
If you divided the number of hours I work (12 hours a day, six days a week) by my base salary, you'd find that I make $8.55 and hour. That's with military training, corporate training, and three college degrees: One AS in Electrical Engineering, one BS in Electrical Engineering, and one BS in Education.
Since my wife is too ill to work, yet I make too much for welfare, I'm forced to work double shifts and teach summer school just to survive. That was doable when I was younger, but with RA and grey hair now...it's getting pretty brutal. Add to that the fact that, even though I have state insurance, I've had to go bankrupt three times because of medical bills and you can see that being a teacher is pretty rough on you and your family financially.
Don't get me wrong, I'm as enthusiastic as ever about my job, I love it...I just wouldn't recommend it to anyone but myself.
So there is a shortage of teachers in the US Saint?
Of nightmarish proportions: We are short over two million teachers and it's getting worse.
The shortage lies in the distribution of teachers. There are not enough teachers who are both qualified and willing to teach in urban and rural schools, particularly in those serving low-income students or students of color. There is also a shortage in certain geographic regions of the country, and there are not enough qualified individuals in particular specialties, such as special education, bilingual education, and the sciences (Bradley, 1999; NASBE, 1998). Some also argue that it is not an insufficient production of qualified teacher candidates that causes staff shortage, as conventional analyses maintain, but rather the high rates of teacher turnover (Ingersoll, 2000).
Researchers have compared the teaching profession to a revolving door (U.S. Department of Education, 2000). They argue that school staffing problems are caused not so much by an insufficient supply of qualified individuals, but by “too many teachers leaving teaching†(Ingersoll, 1997, p. 2). For example, a U.S. Department of Education study of students who earned college degrees in 1992–1993 found that nearly one out of five who graduated from college in that year and began teaching in the public schools by 1994–1995 had left the profession by 1996–1997 (Boser, 2000). Other studies have shown that approximately one-fourth of all beginning teachers leave the classroom within the first four years (Hare & Heap, 2001a).
Even more alarming than the turnover rates themselves are data suggesting that the most intelligent and effective teachers—the teachers that policymakers are most interested in retaining—leave the profession at the highest rates. In a study conducted in the Midwest, the majority of superintendents interviewed reported that from 75 to 100 percent of the teachers leaving classrooms are “highly effective†or “effective†(Hare & Heap, 2001b). Another study found that new teachers who scored in the top quartile on their college entrance exams are nearly twice as likely to leave teaching than those with lower scores (Boser, 2000).
What reasons do teachers cite for leaving their positions? Although retirement and school staffing cutbacks cause some teachers to leave, personal and family matters and job dissatisfaction are more frequently cited as reasons. According to Ingersoll (2000, 2001), 42 percent of all departees report leaving for job dissatisfaction or the desire to pursue a better job, another career, or better career opportunities. Those who report leaving because of job dissatisfaction cite low salaries, lack of support from school administration, lack of student motivation, student discipline problems, and lack of teacher influence over decision making as factors influencing their decisions.
Low salaries and lack of respect from the public also pose a challenge for teacher retention. Research shows that new teachers enter teaching primarily for its intrinsic or psychological rewards—that is, the opportunity to engage in meaningful work, the pleasure of working with children, and love of a particular subject area—rather than extrinsic rewards such as salary or public respect (Goodlad, 1984; Liu, Kardos, Kauffman, Peske, & Johnson, 2000; Lortie, 1975). However, although the extrinsic rewards may not attract people to the profession, lack of satisfaction with these rewards is frequently cited as a reason for leaving.
Let me be blunt: I absolutely love my job, and after 45,000 hours in a classroom, I'm damned good at it. But if you were to ask me if you should be a teacher, I wouldn't recommend it to you.
If you divided the number of hours I work (12 hours a day, six days a week) by my base salary, you'd find that I make $8.55 and hour. That's with military training, corporate training, and three college degrees: One AS in Electrical Engineering, one BS in Electrical Engineering, and one BS in Education.
Since my wife is too ill to work, yet I make too much for welfare, I'm forced to work double shifts and teach summer school just to survive. That was doable when I was younger, but with RA and grey hair now...it's getting pretty brutal. Add to that the fact that, even though I have state insurance, I've had to go bankrupt three times because of medical bills and you can see that being a teacher is pretty rough on you and your family financially.
Don't get me wrong, I'm as enthusiastic as ever about my job, I love it...I just wouldn't recommend it to anyone but myself.
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
Teachers are, IMHO, the most underpaid, under-appreciated, and over-worked professionals in this country. And the job is one of the most important ones in the world.
One teacher can make all the difference in who and what a person becomes in this world.
Anyone who takes on the job of being a teacher in this country has my respect and support.
Were it up to me, we would spend at least half the money paid to professional athletes and convert it to teachers' pay.
One teacher can make all the difference in who and what a person becomes in this world.
Anyone who takes on the job of being a teacher in this country has my respect and support.
Were it up to me, we would spend at least half the money paid to professional athletes and convert it to teachers' pay.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
OK...... OK..... a simple yes would have done......and passionate about it too.
I would second Lars Mac about teachers and what he said is true about decent teachers anywhere, they are priceless.
Many enter teaching thinking they are going to do their bit to change the world, and find they can't communicate to, let alone enthuse their pupils.
The ability to talk to, without talking down to, and still retain authority and maintain mutual respect is a gift and cannot be learned.
Some enter teaching as an extension of their own school life, an easy familiar route to an easy life...............professional students I call them.....waste of space and everybodies time.
Trouble is, with any vocational job such as teaching or nursing, money is not the first attraction, but the money is essential to keep good teachers happy.
How do you raise the profile and esteem of teachers ?
How do you weed out the bad ones?
How do you raise job satisfaction ?
Raising their wages is only part of the answer.
I salute you, now I know why you are named Saint.
I would second Lars Mac about teachers and what he said is true about decent teachers anywhere, they are priceless.
Many enter teaching thinking they are going to do their bit to change the world, and find they can't communicate to, let alone enthuse their pupils.
The ability to talk to, without talking down to, and still retain authority and maintain mutual respect is a gift and cannot be learned.
Some enter teaching as an extension of their own school life, an easy familiar route to an easy life...............professional students I call them.....waste of space and everybodies time.
Trouble is, with any vocational job such as teaching or nursing, money is not the first attraction, but the money is essential to keep good teachers happy.
How do you raise the profile and esteem of teachers ?
How do you weed out the bad ones?
How do you raise job satisfaction ?
Raising their wages is only part of the answer.
I salute you, now I know why you are named Saint.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
We have a policy against FB in my agency. Now, mind you...I'm a counselor and it's never good to blurr boundaries in that dynamic, but my point is...a policy is a policy. So, that being said, if she was aware of the policy, then she was in the wrong. Beyond that..I don't understand why anyone wants to mix business with personal life. There are also other complications - think of the teacher that was fired for posting pics of herself in Ireland with a beer in her hand.
As to this teacher being too old: 79 is a number citing her chronological age. I know many elderly people that are more fit, physically and mentally, than many half their age.
As to this teacher being too old: 79 is a number citing her chronological age. I know many elderly people that are more fit, physically and mentally, than many half their age.
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Teacher fired refused to Unfriend pupils
Bruv;1451602 wrote: We are so different
Thankfully !!!
I find something downright weird about a 79 year old wanting to hang out with students on Facebook.
Social networking sites can be and have been abused. Why should she be exempt from the rules that are there to protect kids ?
Thankfully !!!
I find something downright weird about a 79 year old wanting to hang out with students on Facebook.
Social networking sites can be and have been abused. Why should she be exempt from the rules that are there to protect kids ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon