Tony Blair warns Scotland may already have WMD's

[Silvio Dante]

Bruv;1457652 wrote: I would be very interested how you come to that conclusion, and out of curiosity, where do you hail from?
I'm from Dublin. We cut the apron strings over 90 years ago. Sure, we've it it tough, very tough. But walk down any street in Ireland and ask the average Joe would he ever envisage the day when he would consider re-joining the UK and he'd give you a definite No.



We can be great neighbours, we share so much culturally. But that does not mean we need to be ruled by one or other...

[Silvio Dante]

Oscar Namechange;1457664 wrote: Really ??



So are you saying Scotland Is not a nation ?


Never denied Scotland's natinohood. That is unquestioned. But they are ruled by their neighbours. that is never good for a nation's psyche.



One whiff of independnece would transform the national mood and be liberating in so many ways...

[Oscar Namechange]

Silvio Dante;1457670 wrote:



One whiff of independnece would transform the national mood and be liberating in so many ways... How ?

[Silvio Dante]

Oscar Namechange;1457671 wrote: How ?
Taking their place in the UN, being welcomed into the EU. Having their own flag standing proud over public buildings.



You have no idea how enriching that is unitl you experience it.



While maintaining friendly and productive rleations with their close neighbours...

[Bruv]

Silvio Dante;1457668 wrote: I'm from Dublin. We cut the apron strings over 90 years ago. Sure, we've it it tough, very tough. But walk down any street in Ireland and ask the average Joe would he ever envisage the day when he would consider re-joining the UK and he'd give you a definite No.



We can be great neighbours, we share so much culturally. But that does not mean we need to be ruled by one or other...


The Irish have a special relationship still, and I have never understood it.

Historically you were neutral in WW2, but you have since then had free access to the UK and the right to vote in our elections, so all the benefits but none of the complications.

I believe that is all true.

[Silvio Dante]

Bruv;1457678 wrote: The Irish have a special relationship still, and I have never understood it.

Historically you were neutral in WW2, but you have since then had free access to the UK and the right to vote in our elections, so all the benefits but none of the complications.

I believe that is all true.


We can vote in your elections? Where did you get that from...



We are both members of the EU therefore we have free access into eachother's countries. This is basic stuff...

[Bruv]

Silvio Dante;1457679 wrote: We can vote in your elections? Where did you get that from...



We are both members of the EU therefore we have free access into eachother's countries. This is basic stuff...


Pre EU......... way back to 1949 Link

I know this because a guy from Northern Ireland told me long ago, while he couldn't vote in Belfast because he was Catholic with no property.

[Oscar Namechange]

Bruv;1457678 wrote: The Irish have a special relationship still, and I have never understood it.

Historically you were neutral in WW2, but you have since then had free access to the UK and the right to vote in our elections, so all the benefits but none of the complications.

I believe that is all true. And for the Westminster to bail Ireland out when they went broke.

[Oscar Namechange]

Silvio Dante;1457675 wrote: Taking their place in the UN, being welcomed into the EU. Having their own flag standing proud over public buildings.



You have no idea how enriching that is unitl you experience it.



While maintaining friendly and productive rleations with their close neighbours... They already have their own Parliament, Holyrood. They have their own flag standing over public buildings. They are already part of the EU as part of the UK as they are the UN.

[Silvio Dante]

Bruv;1457681 wrote: Pre EU......... way back to 1949 Link

I know this because a guy from Northern Ireland told me long ago, while he couldn't vote in Belfast because he was Catholic with no property.




So I can't vote in your elections seen as I was born in the 1970's. As it should be...

[Silvio Dante]

Oscar Namechange;1457682 wrote: And for the Westminster to bail Ireland out when they went broke.
It was a 7bn loan thats being paid back. Much appreciated too I might add. Thats what friendly neighbours do in times of trouble. Look out for eachother...

[Silvio Dante]

Oscar Namechange;1457684 wrote: They already have their own Parliament, Holyrood. They have their own flag standing over public buildings. They are already part of the EU as part of the UK as they are the UN.


They are governed from Westminster as you well know.





The removal of the Union Flag from public buildings would be a massively positive move for Scotland and her People. Finally standing on their own two feet...

[Bruv]

Silvio Dante;1457686 wrote: So I can't vote in your elections seen as I was born in the 1970's. As it should be...
I think you can.

[Silvio Dante]

Bruv;1457689 wrote: I think you can.
I assure you, I cannot...

[Oscar Namechange]

Silvio Dante;1457688 wrote: They are governed from Westminster as you well know.





The removal of the Union Flag from public buildings would be a massively positive move for Scotland and her People. Finally standing on their own two feet...
And funded by Westminster. How do you propose the Independant Scotland finances It'self. As you have pointed out, Ireland has to borrow 7 times.

How do you propose Scotland reclaims the Crown Estates as an example?

What about the Scottish economy? Is that strong enough?

Or Is just all about waving your own flags to you ?

[Bruv]

Silvio Dante;1457700 wrote: I assure you, I cannot...


Then I have been wrongly informed, or the rules have changed since I was told...........but apparently a British citizen can vote in the Republic......most strange. LINK

[Bruv]

Oscar Namechange;1457706 wrote: And funded by Westminster. How do you propose the Independant Scotland finances It'self. As you have pointed out, Ireland has to borrow 7 times.

How do you propose Scotland reclaims the Crown Estates as an example?

What about the Scottish economy? Is that strong enough?

Or Is just all about waving your own flags to you ?


Get back to saving England............don't spread yourself too thinly.



They could fund themselves on whiskey and oil sales alone.

[Silvio Dante]

Oscar Namechange;1457706 wrote: And funded by Westminster. How do you propose the Independant Scotland finances It'self. As you have pointed out, Ireland has to borrow 7 times.

How do you propose Scotland reclaims the Crown Estates as an example?

What about the Scottish economy? Is that strong enough?



Or Is just all about waving your own flags to you ?


the UK is up to its neck in debt. We all are...

[Oscar Namechange]

Silvio Dante;1457713 wrote: the UK is up to its neck in debt. We all are... So no real Insight Into how Scotland Independantly finances It'self other than get Into debt ?

OK

[Silvio Dante]

Oscar Namechange;1457716 wrote: So no real Insight Into how Scotland Independantly finances It'self other than get Into debt ?



OK
Clearly by collecting income tax that currently goes to Westminster coffers, attracting foreing multi-nationals to scotland as a member of the EU, especially if the rest of the UK leaves, borrowing on the International markets like every other country in the western World and so on...

[Bruv]

Oscar Namechange;1457716 wrote: So no real Insight Into how Scotland Independantly finances It'self other than get Into debt ?

OK


If they are really the hole in the ground you are suggesting.......why do those who know better ...want to retain them in the Union ?

[recovering conservative]

Silvio Dante;1457668 wrote: I'm from Dublin. We cut the apron strings over 90 years ago. Sure, we've it it tough, very tough. But walk down any street in Ireland and ask the average Joe would he ever envisage the day when he would consider re-joining the UK and he'd give you a definite No.



We can be great neighbours, we share so much culturally. But that does not mean we need to be ruled by one or other...


I haven't really been following the Scottish Independence issue aside from noticing that it might actually happen now.

The problem with comparing Ireland's drive for independence and Scottish independence, is that Ireland broke away at a time when the world was still divided between major global powers. After independence, Ireland could turn to the bankers in France, Germany and USA for loans, but today the entire international banking and trading system is part of one giant colonial cartel, more or less run from the United States....since they have wielded the stick (military force) and seized their advantage at the end of WWII, to make the U.S. Dollar the global reserve currency. On that note - the current drama going on in the Ukraine is the result of a long-running U.S.-sponsored strategy to eventually break up Russia and return them to the vassal state existence they enjoyed after the fall of the Soviet Union during the Yeltsin years...but that's going off course again!

If I can get back on track again, an independent Scotland will have to deal with the same global reality that Ireland and every other nation of the world deals with: the banking and trading cartel run by the only effective international governing organizations in the world (WTO and IMF, World Bank). I don't know a great deal about the situation in Ireland today, although a friend of mine who moved here from Ireland at 14, and still has close ties with family there, tells me that the economy has collapsed since the euphoria of the 90's, when that smoke&mirrors image of Ireland as an "economic tiger" was created by an easy line of credit after turning Ireland into a haven for tax-dodging corporations. The Irish can be thankful that they have a better infrastructure and a sharing culture, where people show concern for neighbours that are struggling to put food on the table. The situation in Greece I've heard, was a lot more divisive and acrimonious than in other collapsed economies like Ireland and Spain. But, I may be wrong on this point, but my guess is that Ireland is less independent in the true sense of the word than they were half a century ago.

Over here in Canada, I think our civic response to economic collapse will be on par with Greece, and maybe somewhat better than what will happen to the U.S. in a currency and economic collapse....I hate to say it, since half of my extended family is American, but aside from Vermont and other isolated outposts, most of the U.S. has a toxic culture, divided by growing racial animosities, hatred of immigrants, ridiculous proliferation of firearms, and last but not least - 30 to 40 years of libertarian/neoliberal brainwashing that has turned greed and selfishness into virtues!

[Saint_]

recovering conservative;1457746 wrote: the entire international banking and trading system is part of one giant colonial cartel, more or less run from the United States...


That's interesting. I would have said that it was run by Switzerland.

[gmc]

Oscar Namechange;1457706 wrote: And funded by Westminster. How do you propose the Independant Scotland finances It'self. As you have pointed out, Ireland has to borrow 7 times.

How do you propose Scotland reclaims the Crown Estates as an example?

What about the Scottish economy? Is that strong enough?

Or Is just all about waving your own flags to you ?


Actually we pay more to the exchequer than we get back. If we want to claim the crown estates what makes you think there would be a good case for letting them keep what thety stole in the first place? As to how we would survive we would be OK. The notion that we cannot rule ourselves and need westminster is ludicrous

They already have their own Parliament, Holyrood. They have their own flag standing over public buildings. They are already part of the EU as part of the UK as they are the UN.




More devolution was one of the options the snp were originally goping to have in a referendum. It was cameron that wanted all or nothing with the promise that if we vote no there would be more devolution, Trust me I'm a tory do I really need to tell you what I think of that one. You can't have it both ways, tell us we're part of the eu because we are in the UK and in the next breath talk about getting out of it.

Quite frankly the westminster parties are shitting themselves that we vote yes labour because it woyukld be the end of them as a political force in westminster and the tories because they realise they will no longer be able to sponge off the scots.

[recovering conservative]

Saint_;1457747 wrote: That's interesting. I would have said that it was run by Switzerland.
Switzerland is little more than the international money haven, where wealthy tax dodgers, corrupt politicians and dictators, and criminal syndicates, can all park their money in numbered bank accounts and be guaranteed anonymity. Switzerland doesn't rule the world by a longshot! They are just an opportunistic benefactor, by skimming off some of the profits from greed and corruption that go on all over the world!

When it comes to who "rules the world," I don't want to get too specific on that point, because the new world order set up by the oligarchs is constantly in flux, with some winners and losers among the ratpack of bankers and opportunists.

So, as an example - who can feel sorry for the directors of Lehman Bros. Bank when they came out the loser in the struggle for supremacy among the U.S. banking establishment? Lehman got out-maneuvered, or simply lacked the political influence of Goldmann....english translation: they didn't have enough politicians who owe them favours.

What the black helicopter crowd and assorted conspiracy theorists miss when they talk about the new world order, is that it doesn't appear to be organized and managed as a top-down strategy controlling the affairs of international banking and trade. Instead, it looks like this loose general agreement of strategies that benefit most of the players at the big international poker table...who get together at those Bilderberg conferences that have Alex Jones & fans in a lather. Sometimes the players at the top change; sometimes some of them get stabbed in the back and ruthlessly dispatched to financial oblivion; but the game goes on because the players all agree on what is best for their collective interests:

1. the U.S. as the ONLY military superpower capable of wielding the stick when necessary at smaller nations

2. and that the U.S. Dollar continues as the international reserve currency for trade. So, all of these attempts to dislodge the Dollar, whether serious or not are beaten back with extreme force.

Let's not forget that the most likely reason why Saddam had to be overthrown in Iraq, was because he had started using Euro's for their oil trades, and was encouraging other OPEC nations to do likewise. Saddam Hussein could not have busted the Dollar back in the 90's, but I believe that he would have been overthrown even if a Democratic Al Gore Administration ran the Whitehouse.

*This is important to consider for those who are too young to have been aware during the Cold War years. Because back then, we were told over and over and over again, that the problem with the Soviet Union and China was because they were communist countries....and communism could spread like a virus....Domino Theory and related B.S.. And today, our ADHD media never goes into the wayback machine and ask today's political operators why Russia and China were never fully brought in as full members of the club? Instead, the U.S. started working the strategy of destroying Russia as soon as the Soviet Union broke up, and would have succeeded if the world wasn't running out of oil today. The so called new world order is designed to be the game of U.S. and European players, not outsiders who come in and try to take over organizations like the World Bank, or want better terms for trade....China being deliberately frozen out by the TransPacific Partnership scheme etc.. So, China and Russia getting together with rising economic powers - Brazil and India, to drop the Dollar and set up their own currency basket for trades is taken as an act of war in Washington!