Heroe's ???
Heroe's ???
I served in the Air Force as a non combatant during the Korean War and by todays standards I would be called a HERO. I was no more a hero than I am a giraffe. The media, at least in the US. seems to refer to everyone that served in any of the Middle East conflicts as heroes and to my way of thinking, it diminishes the meaning for those that truly fit the definition that we all think of when we think HERO.
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Heroe's ???
Lon;1459558 wrote: I served in the Air Force as a non combatant during the Korean War and by todays standards I would be called a HERO. I was no more a hero than I am a giraffe. The media, at least in the US. seems to refer to everyone that served in any of the Middle East conflicts as heroes and to my way of thinking, it diminishes the meaning for those that truly fit the definition that we all think of when we think HERO.
When the National newspapers stole the story of my arrest, I had to also laugh at the headlines they ran right the way through my arrest and trial.
' Hero's daughter hauled before the courts'
Hero's flank war memorial woman'
Hero's besiege courts to support'
Hero's daughter convicted..
On and on It went... how do they know they were all hero's ? Could have been deserters for all they knew.
When the National newspapers stole the story of my arrest, I had to also laugh at the headlines they ran right the way through my arrest and trial.
' Hero's daughter hauled before the courts'
Hero's flank war memorial woman'
Hero's besiege courts to support'
Hero's daughter convicted..
On and on It went... how do they know they were all hero's ? Could have been deserters for all they knew.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Heroe's ???
Likewise, Lon. I was in the Navy during the Vietnam "war" but the nearest I got to combat was during a disagreement with some Marines at the Acey-Duecy Club in San Diego.
I never considered myself any sort of hero, by any means.
And now days, a number of National Guard and Reservists - who in our day were "Stay-at-home warriors" - were called up and sent over there. Many of them saw more combat than a lot of active duty personnel.
I do believe in honoring those who have committed themselves to defending the nation. They deserve respect, no doubt. But to make a word that used to mean so much almost meaningless by its overuse does them all a disservice.
I never considered myself any sort of hero, by any means.
And now days, a number of National Guard and Reservists - who in our day were "Stay-at-home warriors" - were called up and sent over there. Many of them saw more combat than a lot of active duty personnel.
I do believe in honoring those who have committed themselves to defending the nation. They deserve respect, no doubt. But to make a word that used to mean so much almost meaningless by its overuse does them all a disservice.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Heroe's ???
In many ways I feel that the Conscientious Objectors were heroes in their own right.
Whilst a great many of them would certainly have been cowards & shirkers, there were also a vast number who stuck to their principles & refused to fight, despite the frequently violent derision of their peers. Even now, the word "Conchie" is used as a term of contempt, and more often than not, unjustly.
Even those who refused to fight would often voluntarily assume non-combatant roles on the front line as medics - certainly no job for a coward, heading into the line of fire, unarmed.
These are the heroes that are all too often forgotten about in the mists of time, giving way to those who gave their lives, no less valiantly, but with no choice in the matter, due to conscription.
In memory of these heroes there is a little recognised memorial in its own right in Tavistock Square, in London.
I am, in no way, meaning to be disrespectful to any of the others who gave their lives - far from it, but I feel a thought should be spared for those who faced the unforgiving enemies of their own side.
Whilst a great many of them would certainly have been cowards & shirkers, there were also a vast number who stuck to their principles & refused to fight, despite the frequently violent derision of their peers. Even now, the word "Conchie" is used as a term of contempt, and more often than not, unjustly.
Even those who refused to fight would often voluntarily assume non-combatant roles on the front line as medics - certainly no job for a coward, heading into the line of fire, unarmed.
These are the heroes that are all too often forgotten about in the mists of time, giving way to those who gave their lives, no less valiantly, but with no choice in the matter, due to conscription.
In memory of these heroes there is a little recognised memorial in its own right in Tavistock Square, in London.
I am, in no way, meaning to be disrespectful to any of the others who gave their lives - far from it, but I feel a thought should be spared for those who faced the unforgiving enemies of their own side.
Heroe's ???
Lon;1459558 wrote: I served in the Air Force as a non combatant during the Korean War and by todays standards I would be called a HERO. I was no more a hero than I am a giraffe. The media, at least in the US. seems to refer to everyone that served in any of the Middle East conflicts as heroes and to my way of thinking, it diminishes the meaning for those that truly fit the definition that we all think of when we think HERO.
I totally agree.
Spent two years in K-Town Germany during the 'war' in Nam. Truth be told, could have went to Nam, but saw no reason to volunteer.
Long story short, for me I accomplished everything I wanted from my enlistment.
1)Good Conduct Medal
2)Honorable Discharge
Didn't hurt for my pride I actually became a NCO.
I was on the phone with some lady having to do with some business and the question was asked, am I veteran?
The gal thanked me for my service.
I totally agree.
Spent two years in K-Town Germany during the 'war' in Nam. Truth be told, could have went to Nam, but saw no reason to volunteer.
Long story short, for me I accomplished everything I wanted from my enlistment.
1)Good Conduct Medal
2)Honorable Discharge
Didn't hurt for my pride I actually became a NCO.
I was on the phone with some lady having to do with some business and the question was asked, am I veteran?
The gal thanked me for my service.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
Heroe's ???
FourPart;1459569 wrote: In many ways I feel that the Conscientious Objectors were heroes in their own right.
Whilst a great many of them would certainly have been cowards & shirkers, there were also a vast number who stuck to their principles & refused to fight, despite the frequently violent derision of their peers. Even now, the word "Conchie" is used as a term of contempt, and more often than not, unjustly.
Even those who refused to fight would often voluntarily assume non-combatant roles on the front line as medics - certainly no job for a coward, heading into the line of fire, unarmed.
These are the heroes that are all too often forgotten about in the mists of time, giving way to those who gave their lives, no less valiantly, but with no choice in the matter, due to conscription.
In memory of these heroes there is a little recognised memorial in its own right in Tavistock Square, in London.
I am, in no way, meaning to be disrespectful to any of the others who gave their lives - far from it, but I feel a thought should be spared for those who faced the unforgiving enemies of their own side.
To stand up and refuse to fight took a great deal of courage it was not an option a coward or shirker would take tghere were other ways to dodge. Quite a few of them won bravery awards as stretcher bearers and the like. This took me one minute of research there are many others.
Lives of Conscientious Objectors: William Coltman | objectingtowar
I would imagine the american experience will have similar examples.
posted by lon
I served in the Air Force as a non combatant during the Korean War and by todays standards I would be called a HERO. I was no more a hero than I am a giraffe. The media, at least in the US. seems to refer to everyone that served in any of the Middle East conflicts as heroes and to my way of thinking, it diminishes the meaning for those that truly fit the definition that we all think of when we think HERO.
Calling evrybody heroes is a peculiarly american phenomenon that sadly we seem to be copying. ww1 and ww2 the impact on families in the Uk (scotland for example lost one on seven of the male population on ww1) was so widespread you would be hard pushed to find anyone who did not have a relative who was involved in the armed forces or who might have been bombed out of their homes who's the bigger hero the soldier in the desert or the mum with her kids in london's underground? There were man who fought right the way through or who were on the atlantic convoys picking out some as heroes would be odd they werec just doing their jobs like everybody else.
Being cynical I would suggest calling everybody involved in any capacity a hero is a way of distracting attention away from what are they fighting for. You can't ask a hero what did they do it for.
Vietnem is a unique american experience no one seem to talk about vietnam heroes just vietnam vets yet why was a conscript less of a hero than a volunteer.
Correct me if I'm wrong as a non amrican I can't claim to know what I am talking about.
Whilst a great many of them would certainly have been cowards & shirkers, there were also a vast number who stuck to their principles & refused to fight, despite the frequently violent derision of their peers. Even now, the word "Conchie" is used as a term of contempt, and more often than not, unjustly.
Even those who refused to fight would often voluntarily assume non-combatant roles on the front line as medics - certainly no job for a coward, heading into the line of fire, unarmed.
These are the heroes that are all too often forgotten about in the mists of time, giving way to those who gave their lives, no less valiantly, but with no choice in the matter, due to conscription.
In memory of these heroes there is a little recognised memorial in its own right in Tavistock Square, in London.
I am, in no way, meaning to be disrespectful to any of the others who gave their lives - far from it, but I feel a thought should be spared for those who faced the unforgiving enemies of their own side.
To stand up and refuse to fight took a great deal of courage it was not an option a coward or shirker would take tghere were other ways to dodge. Quite a few of them won bravery awards as stretcher bearers and the like. This took me one minute of research there are many others.
Lives of Conscientious Objectors: William Coltman | objectingtowar
I would imagine the american experience will have similar examples.
posted by lon
I served in the Air Force as a non combatant during the Korean War and by todays standards I would be called a HERO. I was no more a hero than I am a giraffe. The media, at least in the US. seems to refer to everyone that served in any of the Middle East conflicts as heroes and to my way of thinking, it diminishes the meaning for those that truly fit the definition that we all think of when we think HERO.
Calling evrybody heroes is a peculiarly american phenomenon that sadly we seem to be copying. ww1 and ww2 the impact on families in the Uk (scotland for example lost one on seven of the male population on ww1) was so widespread you would be hard pushed to find anyone who did not have a relative who was involved in the armed forces or who might have been bombed out of their homes who's the bigger hero the soldier in the desert or the mum with her kids in london's underground? There were man who fought right the way through or who were on the atlantic convoys picking out some as heroes would be odd they werec just doing their jobs like everybody else.
Being cynical I would suggest calling everybody involved in any capacity a hero is a way of distracting attention away from what are they fighting for. You can't ask a hero what did they do it for.
Vietnem is a unique american experience no one seem to talk about vietnam heroes just vietnam vets yet why was a conscript less of a hero than a volunteer.
Correct me if I'm wrong as a non amrican I can't claim to know what I am talking about.
Heroe's ???
gmc;1459600 wrote: To stand up and refuse to fight took a great deal of courage it was not an option a coward or shirker would take tghere were other ways to dodge. Quite a few of them won bravery awards as stretcher bearers and the like. This took me one minute of research there are many others.
Lives of Conscientious Objectors: William Coltman | objectingtowar
I would imagine the american experience will have similar examples.
posted by lon
Calling evrybody heroes is a peculiarly american phenomenon that sadly we seem to be copying. ww1 and ww2 the impact on families in the Uk (scotland for example lost one on seven of the male population on ww1) was so widespread you would be hard pushed to find anyone who did not have a relative who was involved in the armed forces or who might have been bombed out of their homes who's the bigger hero the soldier in the desert or the mum with her kids in london's underground? There were man who fought right the way through or who were on the atlantic convoys picking out some as heroes would be odd they werec just doing their jobs like everybody else.
Being cynical I would suggest calling everybody involved in any capacity a hero is a way of distracting attention away from what are they fighting for. You can't ask a hero what did they do it for.
Vietnem is a unique american experience no one seem to talk about vietnam heroes just vietnam vets yet why was a conscript less of a hero than a volunteer.
Correct me if I'm wrong as a non amrican I can't claim to know what I am talking about.
I had a friend, Charley, who objected, and went to Canada, rather than submit to the draft. He was not a coward. But he refused to take part in the Military action in Vietnam. It was a very painful thing for him to do. I remember that his father, a former Marine who served in Iwo Jima, at first was angry, but after they talked for many hours, his father decided to help him go. That must have been very hard for both of them.
We lost another friend in Vietnam, and for a while, many of our classmates hated Charley for "deserting his country"
He eventually moved to Sweden, and last I heard, became a Swedish citizen.
I guess by "conscript" we are talking about draftees.
A lot of guys were drafted and ended up in Vietnam. Like enlistees, what any one man or woman did is what would define them, regardless of how they got there.
There is a tendency during public activities, and church service, particularly around Memorial Day or Veterans Day to mention the people who served in the military, and to honor them by having all who served stand and be recognized. I stood, like most others, for some of these, but then I remembered some of the people I have known, Dad, Uncles, Brother-in-laws, cousins, and many of the men I have worked with, or counseled over the years, who actually faced combat, some were POWs and some have sever wounds, physically, or mentally. A couple of years ago, I decided, that I will no longer stand for such recognition, because there are men and women far more deserving of it than I shall ever be.
Lives of Conscientious Objectors: William Coltman | objectingtowar
I would imagine the american experience will have similar examples.
posted by lon
Calling evrybody heroes is a peculiarly american phenomenon that sadly we seem to be copying. ww1 and ww2 the impact on families in the Uk (scotland for example lost one on seven of the male population on ww1) was so widespread you would be hard pushed to find anyone who did not have a relative who was involved in the armed forces or who might have been bombed out of their homes who's the bigger hero the soldier in the desert or the mum with her kids in london's underground? There were man who fought right the way through or who were on the atlantic convoys picking out some as heroes would be odd they werec just doing their jobs like everybody else.
Being cynical I would suggest calling everybody involved in any capacity a hero is a way of distracting attention away from what are they fighting for. You can't ask a hero what did they do it for.
Vietnem is a unique american experience no one seem to talk about vietnam heroes just vietnam vets yet why was a conscript less of a hero than a volunteer.
Correct me if I'm wrong as a non amrican I can't claim to know what I am talking about.
I had a friend, Charley, who objected, and went to Canada, rather than submit to the draft. He was not a coward. But he refused to take part in the Military action in Vietnam. It was a very painful thing for him to do. I remember that his father, a former Marine who served in Iwo Jima, at first was angry, but after they talked for many hours, his father decided to help him go. That must have been very hard for both of them.
We lost another friend in Vietnam, and for a while, many of our classmates hated Charley for "deserting his country"
He eventually moved to Sweden, and last I heard, became a Swedish citizen.
I guess by "conscript" we are talking about draftees.
A lot of guys were drafted and ended up in Vietnam. Like enlistees, what any one man or woman did is what would define them, regardless of how they got there.
There is a tendency during public activities, and church service, particularly around Memorial Day or Veterans Day to mention the people who served in the military, and to honor them by having all who served stand and be recognized. I stood, like most others, for some of these, but then I remembered some of the people I have known, Dad, Uncles, Brother-in-laws, cousins, and many of the men I have worked with, or counseled over the years, who actually faced combat, some were POWs and some have sever wounds, physically, or mentally. A couple of years ago, I decided, that I will no longer stand for such recognition, because there are men and women far more deserving of it than I shall ever be.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Heroe's ???
My dad did his National Service in the 50's
His mates regarded him as a true hero of his Regiment
While serving in Africa, he was clearing his rifle - as was required - and during the process, accidentally shot the cook in the leg. A glancing wound.
No record of whether the food improved
His mates regarded him as a true hero of his Regiment
While serving in Africa, he was clearing his rifle - as was required - and during the process, accidentally shot the cook in the leg. A glancing wound.
No record of whether the food improved
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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AnneBoleyn
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Heroe's ???
gmc: "Vietnem is a unique american experience no one seem to talk about vietnam heroes just vietnam vets yet why was a conscript less of a hero than a volunteer."
Many Americans did not consider them heroes as they were involved in a war of aggression that we had no business being involved in. It was the first televised war and many Americans began to view the Vietnamese as our victims. Neither the conscripts nor the volunteers were viewed as heroes, but at least the volunteers put their money where their beliefs were. The anti-war movement was so powerful, so willing to help the draftees, that many Americans found the drafted to be "suckers", not smart enough, or brave enough, to get out of it. In high school, my son read an autobiographical book by a Vietnam Vet who admitted he tried to get out of the draft by going to Canada, & at the border was too afraid to cross. Even though he was very afraid to be drafted, he claimed to be more afraid of the consequences. So he went. Also, the draft itself was extremely unpopular, as young men worried about their own freedom & liberty, & not seeing any reality that it was for Vietnamese freedom & liberty which they didn't care about anyway compared to their own. Hell no, I won't go. Hardly a set-up for heroic action.
Many Americans did not consider them heroes as they were involved in a war of aggression that we had no business being involved in. It was the first televised war and many Americans began to view the Vietnamese as our victims. Neither the conscripts nor the volunteers were viewed as heroes, but at least the volunteers put their money where their beliefs were. The anti-war movement was so powerful, so willing to help the draftees, that many Americans found the drafted to be "suckers", not smart enough, or brave enough, to get out of it. In high school, my son read an autobiographical book by a Vietnam Vet who admitted he tried to get out of the draft by going to Canada, & at the border was too afraid to cross. Even though he was very afraid to be drafted, he claimed to be more afraid of the consequences. So he went. Also, the draft itself was extremely unpopular, as young men worried about their own freedom & liberty, & not seeing any reality that it was for Vietnamese freedom & liberty which they didn't care about anyway compared to their own. Hell no, I won't go. Hardly a set-up for heroic action.
Heroe's ???
I suspect I may appear contraversial & perhaps disrespectful to those who fell for their country here, but to show disrespect is the last thing on my mind. It's just my view thT the only ones who can truly be classed as Heroes are those who made the choice to do what they did of their own free will. When someone is given the choice to go into a hopeless situation, guns blazing, or face getting shot for Cowardice in the Face of the Enemy / Desertion, that is not something that can be deserving of the term Hero, which seems to be done far too often.
I used to be in favour of Conscription, until my Brother, who was in the Army at the time said how he was totally opposed to it, as if he were in a Life or Death situation, he'd want to have someone who chose to be there by his side, not someone who'd be likely to run at the first sign of danger. At least, by not having Conscription in the U.K. we can truly say that those that are killed or injured are heroes.
My Brother, incidentally, served in both Gulf Wars & eventually ended up being invalided out with Gulf War Syndrome, resulting in his having to have everything from the stomach down removed & fitted with a colostomy bag. To the eternal shame of the Government, though, as far as they are concerned, the official line is that there is no such thing as Gulf War Syndrome (which, if you are unfamiliar with it is a cancer that is caused by the untested antitoxins against Nerve Gas & Plague), as if they were to admit its existence they would be liable to pay compensation to all those affected.
If I were in his situation I would be very bitter about this, but no. He is one of those that sees the glass as being half full, and takes the view that as far as he is concerned, he's just happy not to have cancer any more, and that he accepted the potential dangers of the job when he signed up.
I may not agree with his forgiving attitude, but as far as I'm concerned, my Kid Brother is definitely MY Hero!
I used to be in favour of Conscription, until my Brother, who was in the Army at the time said how he was totally opposed to it, as if he were in a Life or Death situation, he'd want to have someone who chose to be there by his side, not someone who'd be likely to run at the first sign of danger. At least, by not having Conscription in the U.K. we can truly say that those that are killed or injured are heroes.
My Brother, incidentally, served in both Gulf Wars & eventually ended up being invalided out with Gulf War Syndrome, resulting in his having to have everything from the stomach down removed & fitted with a colostomy bag. To the eternal shame of the Government, though, as far as they are concerned, the official line is that there is no such thing as Gulf War Syndrome (which, if you are unfamiliar with it is a cancer that is caused by the untested antitoxins against Nerve Gas & Plague), as if they were to admit its existence they would be liable to pay compensation to all those affected.
If I were in his situation I would be very bitter about this, but no. He is one of those that sees the glass as being half full, and takes the view that as far as he is concerned, he's just happy not to have cancer any more, and that he accepted the potential dangers of the job when he signed up.
I may not agree with his forgiving attitude, but as far as I'm concerned, my Kid Brother is definitely MY Hero!
Heroe's ???
AnneBoleyn;1459620 wrote: gmc: "Vietnem is a unique american experience no one seem to talk about vietnam heroes just vietnam vets yet why was a conscript less of a hero than a volunteer."
Many Americans did not consider them heroes as they were involved in a war of aggression that we had no business being involved in. It was the first televised war and many Americans began to view the Vietnamese as our victims. Neither the conscripts nor the volunteers were viewed as heroes, but at least the volunteers put their money where their beliefs were. The anti-war movement was so powerful, so willing to help the draftees, that many Americans found the drafted to be "suckers", not smart enough, or brave enough, to get out of it. In high school, my son read an autobiographical book by a Vietnam Vet who admitted he tried to get out of the draft by going to Canada, & at the border was too afraid to cross. Even though he was very afraid to be drafted, he claimed to be more afraid of the consequences. So he went. Also, the draft itself was extremely unpopular, as young men worried about their own freedom & liberty, & not seeing any reality that it was for Vietnamese freedom & liberty which they didn't care about anyway compared to their own. Hell no, I won't go. Hardly a set-up for heroic action.
Why was the anger not at the government it seemed rather to be taken out on those who fought on then one hand and the hostility to the ant-war movement seemed almost nazi like (my country right or wrong) in it's intensity and hatred.
Many Americans did not consider them heroes as they were involved in a war of aggression that we had no business being involved in. It was the first televised war and many Americans began to view the Vietnamese as our victims. Neither the conscripts nor the volunteers were viewed as heroes, but at least the volunteers put their money where their beliefs were. The anti-war movement was so powerful, so willing to help the draftees, that many Americans found the drafted to be "suckers", not smart enough, or brave enough, to get out of it. In high school, my son read an autobiographical book by a Vietnam Vet who admitted he tried to get out of the draft by going to Canada, & at the border was too afraid to cross. Even though he was very afraid to be drafted, he claimed to be more afraid of the consequences. So he went. Also, the draft itself was extremely unpopular, as young men worried about their own freedom & liberty, & not seeing any reality that it was for Vietnamese freedom & liberty which they didn't care about anyway compared to their own. Hell no, I won't go. Hardly a set-up for heroic action.
Why was the anger not at the government it seemed rather to be taken out on those who fought on then one hand and the hostility to the ant-war movement seemed almost nazi like (my country right or wrong) in it's intensity and hatred.
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High Threshold
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Heroe's ???
Lon;1459558 wrote: Heroe's ???
One of my major, annoyance subjects.
I have been held at gun-point, been under mortar and rocket fire, and been shot at with small arms in Asia, Africa, and the Americas though I was a participating soldier in only one of them. There are neither heros nor cowards. Shooting someone can be the most cowardly act and walking away can sometimes be the most heroic deed. Using terms such as "hero" and "coward" are little more than political tools.
One of my major, annoyance subjects.
I have been held at gun-point, been under mortar and rocket fire, and been shot at with small arms in Asia, Africa, and the Americas though I was a participating soldier in only one of them. There are neither heros nor cowards. Shooting someone can be the most cowardly act and walking away can sometimes be the most heroic deed. Using terms such as "hero" and "coward" are little more than political tools.
Heroe's ???
To my view, a true Hero is someone who voluntarily lays his/her life on the line for their principles or in defence of someone else. It doesn't even have to be anyone in the Military. Someone who without a thought for their own safety will rush into a busy road to save a child from being run over than someone on the front line. They are still risking their lives for the sake of someone else.
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High Threshold
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Heroe's ???
FourPart;1459671 wrote: To my view, a true Hero is someone who voluntarily lays his/her life on the line for their principles or in defence of someone else. It doesn't even have to be anyone in the Military. Someone who without a thought for their own safety will rush into a busy road to save a child from being run over than someone on the front line. They are still risking their lives for the sake of someone else.
I really don't think me jumping between my wife and an oncoming automobile or a bullet makes me a hero. These are instinctive actions based upon things far beyond "voluntary" anything at all, in the same way that I'll carry the heaviest bag of shopping without thinking.
I really don't think me jumping between my wife and an oncoming automobile or a bullet makes me a hero. These are instinctive actions based upon things far beyond "voluntary" anything at all, in the same way that I'll carry the heaviest bag of shopping without thinking.
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AnneBoleyn
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Heroe's ???
gmc;1459647 wrote: Why was the anger not at the government it seemed rather to be taken out on those who fought on then one hand and the hostility to the ant-war movement seemed almost nazi like (my country right or wrong) in it's intensity and hatred.
What??????????? We were pissed off at the Government first & foremost! It was, however, the Individual Soldier who did the actual killing.
"Buffy St. Marie first narrates on how she wrote, then sings Universal Soldier."
Listen to the lyrics and learn the answer.
What??????????? We were pissed off at the Government first & foremost! It was, however, the Individual Soldier who did the actual killing.
"Buffy St. Marie first narrates on how she wrote, then sings Universal Soldier."
Listen to the lyrics and learn the answer.
Heroe's ???
Or....."What if they threw a war and nobody came?"
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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AnneBoleyn
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Heroe's ???
Bruv;1459684 wrote: Or....."What if they threw a war and nobody came?"
That would be nice.
That would be nice.
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High Threshold
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Heroe's ???
Bruv;1459684 wrote: Or....."What if they threw a war and nobody came?"
Tell Mr. Fishfinger to stop tossing more than one Siamese fish into the same tank, Bruv ..... then we'll disguss it.
Tell Mr. Fishfinger to stop tossing more than one Siamese fish into the same tank, Bruv ..... then we'll disguss it.
Heroe's ???
AnneBoleyn;1459681 wrote: What??????????? We were pissed off at the Government first & foremost! It was, however, the Individual Soldier who did the actual killing.
"Buffy St. Marie first narrates on how she wrote, then sings Universal Soldier."
Listen to the lyrics and learn the answer.
One of my favourite anti war songs and contemporary with universal soldier. scots /australian he was on a holiday in flanders and was struck by the ages of many of the soldiers.
We currently have the tories trying to re-write ww1 as a great patriotic war that had to be fought. Some things are easy to judge in hindsight but what would you have done were you around at the time. OK I know you were during vietnam but I hope you get my drift. I have a close relative who fought recently in afghanistan and know a few ex soldiers. Maybe it's a truism that the ones who least want to go to war are those who have been there.
It's never simple black and white is it as a conscript do you do the ""right" thing and go and end up fighting for your mates or refuse and accept being ostracised by everyone you know? I wouldn't condemn anyone for the decisions made and I don't know what I would have done had I had to make the decision.
"Buffy St. Marie first narrates on how she wrote, then sings Universal Soldier."
Listen to the lyrics and learn the answer.
One of my favourite anti war songs and contemporary with universal soldier. scots /australian he was on a holiday in flanders and was struck by the ages of many of the soldiers.
We currently have the tories trying to re-write ww1 as a great patriotic war that had to be fought. Some things are easy to judge in hindsight but what would you have done were you around at the time. OK I know you were during vietnam but I hope you get my drift. I have a close relative who fought recently in afghanistan and know a few ex soldiers. Maybe it's a truism that the ones who least want to go to war are those who have been there.
It's never simple black and white is it as a conscript do you do the ""right" thing and go and end up fighting for your mates or refuse and accept being ostracised by everyone you know? I wouldn't condemn anyone for the decisions made and I don't know what I would have done had I had to make the decision.
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High Threshold
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The best anti-war songs, as far as I'm concerned, are:
... this ....
.... this ......
¦. and this ¦....
... this ....
.... this ......
¦. and this ¦....
Heroe's ???
gmc;1459715 wrote:
It's never simple black and white is it as a conscript do you do the ""right" thing and go and end up fighting for your mates or refuse and accept being ostracised by everyone you know? I wouldn't condemn anyone for the decisions made and I don't know what I would have done had I had to make the decision.
I have always hoped that if I had ever been called to arms, I would have had the strength of character and the courage of my convictions to decline.
I remember seeing a film long back where two opposing soldiers happen across each other and manage not to shoot, to me that was the bravest act under the circumstances.
It's never simple black and white is it as a conscript do you do the ""right" thing and go and end up fighting for your mates or refuse and accept being ostracised by everyone you know? I wouldn't condemn anyone for the decisions made and I don't know what I would have done had I had to make the decision.
I have always hoped that if I had ever been called to arms, I would have had the strength of character and the courage of my convictions to decline.
I remember seeing a film long back where two opposing soldiers happen across each other and manage not to shoot, to me that was the bravest act under the circumstances.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Heroe's ???
M*A*S*H was never as popular in America as it was over here, in the U.K., possibly because of the dry type of humour that Americans seem to have trouble understanding, but also because it portrays the REAL side of the conflict. The pain & misery from both sides who often had no idea about what the cause was that they were supposed to be fighting for. Once again, it wasn't anything they believed in & had been forced to go there by the draft, yet when they returned either maimed or in body bags after having served their term of being forcibly used by their Government as pawns on some giant Political chessboard, they are referred to as 'Heroes'.
If someone were to be dragged off of the street , at random, by the authorities & sent somewhere out of the public eye to get beaten up & his limbs torn off, would that make the victim a hero? Not a bit of it, yet this is essentially what they all were 'They, The People' have been brainwashed into telling themselves how well they treat their vets.
Incidentally, there was also a sequel to M*A*S*H, not very imaginatively called "After MASH", starring a few of the old favourite characters, such as Colonel Potter (Harry Morgan) & Klinger (Jamie Farr) etc., which is set in a post Korean War vet's hospital. This portrayed the reality of how their 'heroes' were treated, by hiding them away from the public eye, and treating them like dirt.
As far as songs that put it across, I think this classic sums it up:
If someone were to be dragged off of the street , at random, by the authorities & sent somewhere out of the public eye to get beaten up & his limbs torn off, would that make the victim a hero? Not a bit of it, yet this is essentially what they all were 'They, The People' have been brainwashed into telling themselves how well they treat their vets.
Incidentally, there was also a sequel to M*A*S*H, not very imaginatively called "After MASH", starring a few of the old favourite characters, such as Colonel Potter (Harry Morgan) & Klinger (Jamie Farr) etc., which is set in a post Korean War vet's hospital. This portrayed the reality of how their 'heroes' were treated, by hiding them away from the public eye, and treating them like dirt.
As far as songs that put it across, I think this classic sums it up:
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High Threshold
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FourPart;1459724 wrote:
As far as songs that put it across, I think this classic sums it up:
Good choice, but it does help to perpetuate the same sort of shoot 'em up hero crap that we claim to distain; "If I could move I'd get my gun and put her in the ground .........."
As far as songs that put it across, I think this classic sums it up:
Good choice, but it does help to perpetuate the same sort of shoot 'em up hero crap that we claim to distain; "If I could move I'd get my gun and put her in the ground .........."
Heroe's ???
You know I've heard that kenny rodgers song before but never realised what it was about. Just shows, I guess, I never take in the words of songs most of the time
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AnneBoleyn
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FourPart: "M*A*S*H was never as popular in America as it was over here, in the U.K., possibly because of the dry type of humour that Americans seem to have trouble understanding, but also because it portrays the REAL side of the conflict."
That is absolutely silly & downright wrong. The show was extremely popular here, & the final show was the most popular show in American TV history.
MASH
As for the dry humor being hard for us to understand, who do you think wrote, directed & acted in the show except for Americans? Why do you think it lasted 11 years if it were not enjoyed by the American public who it was intended for?
It was popular because it was a stand-in for the Actual Vietnam War, which, under the pseudonym of Korea, was indeed Vietnam.
Again, "AfterMash" was about how the Vietnam Vets were treated. The Korean war vets were & still are, treated very well here.
MASH was about Vietnam, only using the pseudonym of Korea, as I've already said & will repeat it to you endlessly, if need be. Although written by an actual doctor who served in Korea, the show was slanted toward the ongoing conflict in Vietnam deliberately.
That is absolutely silly & downright wrong. The show was extremely popular here, & the final show was the most popular show in American TV history.
MASH
As for the dry humor being hard for us to understand, who do you think wrote, directed & acted in the show except for Americans? Why do you think it lasted 11 years if it were not enjoyed by the American public who it was intended for?
It was popular because it was a stand-in for the Actual Vietnam War, which, under the pseudonym of Korea, was indeed Vietnam.
Again, "AfterMash" was about how the Vietnam Vets were treated. The Korean war vets were & still are, treated very well here.
MASH was about Vietnam, only using the pseudonym of Korea, as I've already said & will repeat it to you endlessly, if need be. Although written by an actual doctor who served in Korea, the show was slanted toward the ongoing conflict in Vietnam deliberately.
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High Threshold
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AnneBoleyn;1459739 wrote: "M*A*S*H ..... It was popular because it was a stand-in for the Actual Vietnam War, which, under the pseudonym of Korea, was indeed Vietnam.
Again, "AfterMash" was about how the Vietnam Vets were treated. The Korean war vets were & still are, treated very well here.
MASH was about Vietnam, only using the pseudonym of Korea, as I've already said & will repeat it to you endlessly, if need be. Although written by an actual doctor who served in Korea, the show was slanted toward the ongoing conflict in Vietnam deliberately.
I can believe that. And it was much more easy to swallow than that F-ing "Good Morning Vietnam" with that ***** Robin Williams.
Again, "AfterMash" was about how the Vietnam Vets were treated. The Korean war vets were & still are, treated very well here.
MASH was about Vietnam, only using the pseudonym of Korea, as I've already said & will repeat it to you endlessly, if need be. Although written by an actual doctor who served in Korea, the show was slanted toward the ongoing conflict in Vietnam deliberately.
I can believe that. And it was much more easy to swallow than that F-ing "Good Morning Vietnam" with that ***** Robin Williams.
Heroe's ???
FourPart;1459724 wrote: M*A*S*H was never as popular in America as it was over here, in the U.K., possibly because of the dry type of humour that Americans seem to have trouble understanding, but also because it portrays the REAL side of the conflict. The pain & misery from both sides who often had no idea about what the cause was that they were supposed to be fighting for. Once again, it wasn't anything they believed in & had been forced to go there by the draft, yet when they returned either maimed or in body bags after having served their term of being forcibly used by their Government as pawns on some giant Political chessboard, they are referred to as 'Heroes'.
If someone were to be dragged off of the street , at random, by the authorities & sent somewhere out of the public eye to get beaten up & his limbs torn off, would that make the victim a hero? Not a bit of it, yet this is essentially what they all were 'They, The People' have been brainwashed into telling themselves how well they treat their vets.
Incidentally, there was also a sequel to M*A*S*H, not very imaginatively called "After MASH", starring a few of the old favourite characters, such as Colonel Potter (Harry Morgan) & Klinger (Jamie Farr) etc., which is set in a post Korean War vet's hospital. This portrayed the reality of how their 'heroes' were treated, by hiding them away from the public eye, and treating them like dirt.
As far as songs that put it across, I think this classic sums it up:
it was, indeed, one of, if not THE most popular shows on Commercial TV for years. and the re-runs are still going strong. One channel here in Colorado has been running M*A*S*H re-runs every night since the series ended. M*A*S*H still has a significant following.
Not all Americans are bloodthirsty savages, or mindless zombies catering to the corporate masters.
If someone were to be dragged off of the street , at random, by the authorities & sent somewhere out of the public eye to get beaten up & his limbs torn off, would that make the victim a hero? Not a bit of it, yet this is essentially what they all were 'They, The People' have been brainwashed into telling themselves how well they treat their vets.
Incidentally, there was also a sequel to M*A*S*H, not very imaginatively called "After MASH", starring a few of the old favourite characters, such as Colonel Potter (Harry Morgan) & Klinger (Jamie Farr) etc., which is set in a post Korean War vet's hospital. This portrayed the reality of how their 'heroes' were treated, by hiding them away from the public eye, and treating them like dirt.
As far as songs that put it across, I think this classic sums it up:
it was, indeed, one of, if not THE most popular shows on Commercial TV for years. and the re-runs are still going strong. One channel here in Colorado has been running M*A*S*H re-runs every night since the series ended. M*A*S*H still has a significant following.
Not all Americans are bloodthirsty savages, or mindless zombies catering to the corporate masters.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
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High Threshold
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LarsMac;1459756 wrote: Not all Americans are bloodthirsty savages, or mindless zombies catering to the corporate masters.
Yet you felt it was necessary to wait all of these years, after all of those wars before telling us? :wah:
Yet you felt it was necessary to wait all of these years, after all of those wars before telling us? :wah: