Snowfire;1462011 wrote: ..... Fox News ..... Do you think they say what they do for affect or do you really think they believe all that bollocks ?
A damned good question. Anyway, I'm sure they're getting paid to say the things they say. Well, I dare say they're being told exactly what to say. I mean, the military-industrial complex is stuffing their mattresses, and the reason they get away with it is because people aren't tearing the cities down. And the reason they're not? Lord, don't get me started on that again.
Snowfire;1462017 wrote: ..... to find out what's going on in the world ..... The tragedy is, there are people who tune in to Fox for exactly that.
Lots of them.
Is the US ( world) addicted to violence?
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High Threshold
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High Threshold
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Is the US ( world) addicted to violence?
recovering conservative;1462020 wrote: Like most Faux News reports, it's not good for much aside comedic value. But, it's worth noting that the rest of the MSM doesn't do much better!
I might debate with you about just how much better - but I'm with you.
I might debate with you about just how much better - but I'm with you.
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recovering conservative
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Is the US ( world) addicted to violence?
gmc;1461971 wrote: I would actually agree with you there. Capitalism is just an economic theory not some kind of poilitical/religious dogma though you'd think it was the way people go on about it. Communism and socialism was a response to the naked exploitation of resources and labour in the century when europe was industrialising and people left the country en masse and ended up working in factories for fourteen hours a day just as the magna carta and declaratiion of the people in 1649 was a response to injustices and exploitation by ruling classes that just wanted to run things fior their own benefit It's the same basic arguments over and over again with different words and concepts. Once upon a time the ruling classes claimed a right to rule given to them by god now things ar a bit more subtle instead of heresy now environmentalists are tree huggers anyone protesting the acticities of big companies is a socialist/communist (the two get conflated for convenience) or anti-capitalist terrorist (seems to be the new catch phrase. ) Put a label on something and you end up arguing about the label rather than the issues. Peacenik was a deogatory term the list goes on and on.
Anyone with half a brain can see the problem most of the world is not addicted to growth at all costs and can see the looming environmental catastrophe trouble is the debate get reduced to name calling especially in america where scientific evidence about the environmental problems seems to be seen as another religion that you can choose to believe or not - It's the same basic question for hundreds of years why do we let the bastards away with this?
I don't have any nice pat answers but to me just blaming capitalism as if it's a real thing is pointless. The problem liberals or anyone that is semi intelligent have is that being rational they tend to think everyody else is and if you just explain things properly that we are all in this together people will change. People are not reasonable or rational brining religion in to the mix and you may as well go home and pull the covers over your head.
I've just made myself depressed.
I had what I thought was a great followup already to post and then either my browser or this board crashed and lost my data. I'll try to get back to it later when I have time.
Anyone with half a brain can see the problem most of the world is not addicted to growth at all costs and can see the looming environmental catastrophe trouble is the debate get reduced to name calling especially in america where scientific evidence about the environmental problems seems to be seen as another religion that you can choose to believe or not - It's the same basic question for hundreds of years why do we let the bastards away with this?
I don't have any nice pat answers but to me just blaming capitalism as if it's a real thing is pointless. The problem liberals or anyone that is semi intelligent have is that being rational they tend to think everyody else is and if you just explain things properly that we are all in this together people will change. People are not reasonable or rational brining religion in to the mix and you may as well go home and pull the covers over your head.
I've just made myself depressed.
I had what I thought was a great followup already to post and then either my browser or this board crashed and lost my data. I'll try to get back to it later when I have time.
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recovering conservative
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:28 pm
Is the US ( world) addicted to violence?
2nd try:
gmc;1461971 wrote: I would actually agree with you there. Capitalism is just an economic theory not some kind of poilitical/religious dogma though you'd think it was the way people go on about it. Communism and socialism was a response to the naked exploitation of resources and labour in the century when europe was industrialising and people left the country en masse and ended up working in factories for fourteen hours a day just as the magna carta and declaratiion of the people in 1649 was a response to injustices and exploitation by ruling classes that just wanted to run things fior their own benefit It's the same basic arguments over and over again with different words and concepts. Once upon a time the ruling classes claimed a right to rule given to them by god now things ar a bit more subtle instead of heresy now environmentalists are tree huggers anyone protesting the acticities of big companies is a socialist/communist (the two get conflated for convenience) or anti-capitalist terrorist (seems to be the new catch phrase. ) Put a label on something and you end up arguing about the label rather than the issues. Peacenik was a deogatory term the list goes on and on.
Yes, and today's oligarchs can't convince people that they rule by the grace of God, they have to justify their wealth and power through appeals to property rights, the invisible hand of the market, and continued adherence to an antiquated notion of free will - where someone's rewards and misfortunes in life are all achieved through their own personal effort. So chipping away a few billion from the Koch's, Warren Buffet and even ruthless hedge fund capitalists like Paul "The Vulture" Singer, are unwarranted redistributions of wealth in the rhetoric of libertarianism...the favorite ideology of aristocrats.
Anyone with half a brain can see the problem most of the world is not addicted to growth at all costs and can see the looming environmental catastrophe trouble is the debate get reduced to name calling especially in america where scientific evidence about the environmental problems seems to be seen as another religion that you can choose to believe or not - It's the same basic question for hundreds of years why do we let the bastards away with this?
I was listening today to an independent media interview with environmentalist - Christopher Williams...who just happened to have come back from visiting Ecuador and Bolivia. The leftish reform leaders of these two nations certainly do not want growth at any cost, like most of their northern peers. The problem is that have backed away from previous pledges not to allow oil exploration (in Ecuador's case) or the resumption of foreign-owned mining operations in Bolivia. In both cases, their leaders are aware of the environmental costs, AND the risks of angering their base of indigenous native supporters. They are taking the risk of continuing carbon-intensive operations because their nations are locked in to the international currency, finance and trading regimes. No oil exploration or mining/ no IMF loans or export earnings.
I don't have any nice pat answers but to me just blaming capitalism as if it's a real thing is pointless.
Unless you're willing/and able to go off the grid...and most important - you have a small band of likeminded activists with you...well, then you are locked in to modern international consumer demand-driven capitalism! The only thing you can do is reduce your participation in the capitalist system - reduce and eliminate your personal debt (if possible), and be consciously aware of mind-numbing advertising, and resist the impulse to buy, and purchase only what is essential.
The problem liberals or anyone that is semi intelligent have is that being rational they tend to think everyody else is and if you just explain things properly that we are all in this together people will change. People are not reasonable or rational brining religion in to the mix and you may as well go home and pull the covers over your head.
I've just made myself depressed.
It's impossible not to find the state of world depressing today. And, you're right that liberals tend to think through issues more than conservatives do. That's why the brainwashing right wing media use emotional appeals designed to appeal to the fears, resentments, and feelings of disgust and revulsion felt by conservatives.
gmc;1461971 wrote: I would actually agree with you there. Capitalism is just an economic theory not some kind of poilitical/religious dogma though you'd think it was the way people go on about it. Communism and socialism was a response to the naked exploitation of resources and labour in the century when europe was industrialising and people left the country en masse and ended up working in factories for fourteen hours a day just as the magna carta and declaratiion of the people in 1649 was a response to injustices and exploitation by ruling classes that just wanted to run things fior their own benefit It's the same basic arguments over and over again with different words and concepts. Once upon a time the ruling classes claimed a right to rule given to them by god now things ar a bit more subtle instead of heresy now environmentalists are tree huggers anyone protesting the acticities of big companies is a socialist/communist (the two get conflated for convenience) or anti-capitalist terrorist (seems to be the new catch phrase. ) Put a label on something and you end up arguing about the label rather than the issues. Peacenik was a deogatory term the list goes on and on.
Yes, and today's oligarchs can't convince people that they rule by the grace of God, they have to justify their wealth and power through appeals to property rights, the invisible hand of the market, and continued adherence to an antiquated notion of free will - where someone's rewards and misfortunes in life are all achieved through their own personal effort. So chipping away a few billion from the Koch's, Warren Buffet and even ruthless hedge fund capitalists like Paul "The Vulture" Singer, are unwarranted redistributions of wealth in the rhetoric of libertarianism...the favorite ideology of aristocrats.
Anyone with half a brain can see the problem most of the world is not addicted to growth at all costs and can see the looming environmental catastrophe trouble is the debate get reduced to name calling especially in america where scientific evidence about the environmental problems seems to be seen as another religion that you can choose to believe or not - It's the same basic question for hundreds of years why do we let the bastards away with this?
I was listening today to an independent media interview with environmentalist - Christopher Williams...who just happened to have come back from visiting Ecuador and Bolivia. The leftish reform leaders of these two nations certainly do not want growth at any cost, like most of their northern peers. The problem is that have backed away from previous pledges not to allow oil exploration (in Ecuador's case) or the resumption of foreign-owned mining operations in Bolivia. In both cases, their leaders are aware of the environmental costs, AND the risks of angering their base of indigenous native supporters. They are taking the risk of continuing carbon-intensive operations because their nations are locked in to the international currency, finance and trading regimes. No oil exploration or mining/ no IMF loans or export earnings.
I don't have any nice pat answers but to me just blaming capitalism as if it's a real thing is pointless.
Unless you're willing/and able to go off the grid...and most important - you have a small band of likeminded activists with you...well, then you are locked in to modern international consumer demand-driven capitalism! The only thing you can do is reduce your participation in the capitalist system - reduce and eliminate your personal debt (if possible), and be consciously aware of mind-numbing advertising, and resist the impulse to buy, and purchase only what is essential.
The problem liberals or anyone that is semi intelligent have is that being rational they tend to think everyody else is and if you just explain things properly that we are all in this together people will change. People are not reasonable or rational brining religion in to the mix and you may as well go home and pull the covers over your head.
I've just made myself depressed.
It's impossible not to find the state of world depressing today. And, you're right that liberals tend to think through issues more than conservatives do. That's why the brainwashing right wing media use emotional appeals designed to appeal to the fears, resentments, and feelings of disgust and revulsion felt by conservatives.