The fatal shooting of a black teenager by police sent hundreds of angry residents out of their apartments Saturday in a St. Louis suburb, igniting shouts of "kill the police" during a confrontation that lasted several hours.
Up to ten hits I read somewhere, another tragedy unfolds.
Another fatal shooting
Another fatal shooting
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Another fatal shooting
Can't establish what this young man did to deserve gunning down, bar running away. There seems to be many stories about a proportion of police that seem incapable of showing restraint of any sort.
The "Protect and serve" attitude seems to have been shown the door in favour of a very heavy handed and over the top type of policing
The "Protect and serve" attitude seems to have been shown the door in favour of a very heavy handed and over the top type of policing
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Another fatal shooting
Once again the claim of "Racially Motivated" attacks goes up. Perhaps it was the case. Perhaps not. No-one seems to know for sure. All I do know is that if a white person gets shot (which is also happening all the time in America) we rarely get to hear anything about it. Yet if it's a black person there's all hell to pay once the calls go up claiming it to be "Racially Motivated".
Racism has nothing to do with it. I consider myself to be pretty Street Wise & I know from what I have seen myself that the vast majority of street crime, such as drug dealing, mugging, raping & other crimes of violence are committed by Blacks. That's not a matter of being racist. That's a matter of being realistic. The crimes are not equally proportionate to Black / White populations. If a town had an ethnicity of 50% white & 50% black, you can bet that 80% or more of the crime in that town would be by the blacks.
There's a good reason that blacks are targeted more on Stop & Search.
I'm not saying that there's no crime among the White communities, but ask yourself this - and answer honestly - what sort of neighbourhood would you feel more comfortable walking through at night? A Black one or a White one?
I know I'm likely to get a lot of flak for posting this, but I've never been one to paint over the truth when it's not P.C. to do so.
Furthermore, with the Gun Culture being the way it is in America, I can sympathise with the Police even more. It's a case of Shoot or be Shot. Nothing has really changed since the Frontier days, apart from the efficiency of the arms in their capability to kill.
Racism has nothing to do with it. I consider myself to be pretty Street Wise & I know from what I have seen myself that the vast majority of street crime, such as drug dealing, mugging, raping & other crimes of violence are committed by Blacks. That's not a matter of being racist. That's a matter of being realistic. The crimes are not equally proportionate to Black / White populations. If a town had an ethnicity of 50% white & 50% black, you can bet that 80% or more of the crime in that town would be by the blacks.
There's a good reason that blacks are targeted more on Stop & Search.
I'm not saying that there's no crime among the White communities, but ask yourself this - and answer honestly - what sort of neighbourhood would you feel more comfortable walking through at night? A Black one or a White one?
I know I'm likely to get a lot of flak for posting this, but I've never been one to paint over the truth when it's not P.C. to do so.
Furthermore, with the Gun Culture being the way it is in America, I can sympathise with the Police even more. It's a case of Shoot or be Shot. Nothing has really changed since the Frontier days, apart from the efficiency of the arms in their capability to kill.
Another fatal shooting
FourPart;1461660 wrote: Once again the claim of "Racially Motivated" attacks goes up. Perhaps it was the case. Perhaps not. No-one seems to know for sure. All I do know is that if a white person gets shot (which is also happening all the time in America) we rarely get to hear anything about it. Yet if it's a black person there's all hell to pay once the calls go up claiming it to be "Racially Motivated".
I know I'm likely to get a lot of flak for posting this, but I've never been one to paint over the truth when it's not P.C. to do so.
Why was Race brought into this? What race was the Police Officer ?
Latest is the news that there was a problem in the Police car.....HERE
But.......whatever lead up to the shooting, and whatever the races of those involved, why so many of any race are shot by police and why so many shots to do the deed ?
Incarceration Gap Widens....Thats American for a higher percentage of blacks are jailed than whites.
So.......blacks are obviously more criminally inclined.....or perhaps there is the possibility of some other factors influencing that statistic.
I know I'm likely to get a lot of flak for posting this, but I've never been one to paint over the truth when it's not P.C. to do so.
Why was Race brought into this? What race was the Police Officer ?
Latest is the news that there was a problem in the Police car.....HERE
But.......whatever lead up to the shooting, and whatever the races of those involved, why so many of any race are shot by police and why so many shots to do the deed ?
Incarceration Gap Widens....Thats American for a higher percentage of blacks are jailed than whites.
So.......blacks are obviously more criminally inclined.....or perhaps there is the possibility of some other factors influencing that statistic.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Another fatal shooting
Bruv;1461661 wrote: But.......whatever lead up to the shooting, and whatever the races of those involved, why so many of any race are shot by police and why so many shots to do the deed ?
As I said, it's the Gun Culture. It's standard Police Protocol the if they have to shoot, they shoot to kill, as a wounded fugitive can still shoot back.
As I said, it's the Gun Culture. It's standard Police Protocol the if they have to shoot, they shoot to kill, as a wounded fugitive can still shoot back.
Another fatal shooting
FourPart;1461664 wrote: As I said, it's the Gun Culture. It's standard Police Protocol the if they have to shoot, they shoot to kill, as a wounded fugitive can still shoot back.
From the latest reports, hand to hand struggling within police car followed by an attempted escape.......
Belmar said the incident started when Brown physically assaulted the police officer, pushing him into the officer's vehicle. He said there was a struggle inside the car, and at some point Brown reached for the officer's weapon. One shot was fired inside the vehicle.Brown suffered fatal gunshot wounds outside of the vehicle, approximately 35 feet from the car. Belmar said multiple shell casings were found at the scene, and that Brown was shot more than once, but an exact number of shots fired has not yet been determined. All the shell casings came from the officer's weapon.
US Police have killed over 5000 civilians since 2001.....that is about 8 every month, not all were innocent.
The United States criminal justice system is the largest in the world, with the highest incarceration rate by a long way.
Bit of an eye opener, well worth a read.
From the latest reports, hand to hand struggling within police car followed by an attempted escape.......
Belmar said the incident started when Brown physically assaulted the police officer, pushing him into the officer's vehicle. He said there was a struggle inside the car, and at some point Brown reached for the officer's weapon. One shot was fired inside the vehicle.Brown suffered fatal gunshot wounds outside of the vehicle, approximately 35 feet from the car. Belmar said multiple shell casings were found at the scene, and that Brown was shot more than once, but an exact number of shots fired has not yet been determined. All the shell casings came from the officer's weapon.
US Police have killed over 5000 civilians since 2001.....that is about 8 every month, not all were innocent.
The United States criminal justice system is the largest in the world, with the highest incarceration rate by a long way.
Bit of an eye opener, well worth a read.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Another fatal shooting
Bruv;1461661 wrote: Why was Race brought into this? What race was the Police Officer ?
Latest is the news that there was a problem in the Police care.....HERE
"Black" was used a disproportianate number of times throughout the article. The damning reports go into intimate detail of what the Big, Bad Policeman did - but no mention anywhere of what his colour was.
Also, according to the 2nd report, apparently he had reached for the officer's gun which although might not mean that he was actually armed, but he would have had every intention of being so.
Plus, it seems that he was the one making the initial attack, placing the officer in a Self-Defence situation.
All in all, regardless of what the actual facts may be, the report seems extremely one-sided in support of the victim without any attempt to determine the reasons why & how it came about.
Whenever I see any report as biased as that I immediately question its credibility.
Latest is the news that there was a problem in the Police care.....HERE
"Black" was used a disproportianate number of times throughout the article. The damning reports go into intimate detail of what the Big, Bad Policeman did - but no mention anywhere of what his colour was.
Also, according to the 2nd report, apparently he had reached for the officer's gun which although might not mean that he was actually armed, but he would have had every intention of being so.
Plus, it seems that he was the one making the initial attack, placing the officer in a Self-Defence situation.
All in all, regardless of what the actual facts may be, the report seems extremely one-sided in support of the victim without any attempt to determine the reasons why & how it came about.
Whenever I see any report as biased as that I immediately question its credibility.
Another fatal shooting
FourPart;1461666 wrote: "Black" was used a disproportianate number of times throughout the article. The damning reports go into intimate detail of what the Big, Bad Policeman did - but no mention anywhere of what his colour was.
Whenever I see any report as biased as that I immediately question its credibility.
You obviously read another report to me then.
"Black" was mentioned once in the Headline, once in the video caption, once to describe the neighbourhood, once to mention how critics reckon police target them, plus a mention of African Americans.
If people genuinely believe that black youth are being disproportionately killed by police, how would you report that without using the word Black?
It is worth considering the gun grabbing struggle, followed by the empty handed escapee who was gunned down falling 35 feet from the car.......no bias.....no colour mentioned.
Whatever happened it was far from good police work.
Whenever I see any report as biased as that I immediately question its credibility.
You obviously read another report to me then.
"Black" was mentioned once in the Headline, once in the video caption, once to describe the neighbourhood, once to mention how critics reckon police target them, plus a mention of African Americans.
If people genuinely believe that black youth are being disproportionately killed by police, how would you report that without using the word Black?
It is worth considering the gun grabbing struggle, followed by the empty handed escapee who was gunned down falling 35 feet from the car.......no bias.....no colour mentioned.
Whatever happened it was far from good police work.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Another fatal shooting
I saw that the Reverend Al Sharpton is on his way to the town and I thought, "Yay! I love the circus!"
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AnneBoleyn
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Another fatal shooting
Saint_;1461674 wrote: I saw that the Reverend Al Sharpton is on his way to the town and I thought, "Yay! I love the circus!"
I like Reverend Al. He brings attention to causes that, IMO, deserve our awareness.
I like Reverend Al. He brings attention to causes that, IMO, deserve our awareness.
Another fatal shooting
And there is another one
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Another fatal shooting
There have been at least 303 people killed in officer-involved shootings since 2007, according to The Times' Homicide Report database.
Line of Duty Deaths: 64 - This Year!
(Law Enforcement Line of Duty Deaths in 2014)
Line of Duty Deaths: 64 - This Year!
(Law Enforcement Line of Duty Deaths in 2014)
Another fatal shooting
FourPart;1461877 wrote: - This Year!
(Law Enforcement Line of Duty Deaths in 2014)
Statistically speaking, Americans should be more fearful of the local cops than “terrorists.
US police have killed over 5000 since 9/11
(Law Enforcement Line of Duty Deaths in 2014)
Statistically speaking, Americans should be more fearful of the local cops than “terrorists.
US police have killed over 5000 since 9/11
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Another fatal shooting
Bruv;1461882 wrote: Statistically speaking, Americans should be more fearful of the local cops than “terrorists.
US police have killed over 5000 since 9/11
This is my point. One set of 'factual statistics' states over 303 since 2007, yet another claims over 5000 every year. While I agree that over 5000 is also over 303, I think it's clear that both statistics can't both be accurate.
Furthermore:
Though the U.S. government does not have a database collecting information about the total number of police involved shootings each year, it’s estimated that between 500 and 1,000 Americans are killed by police officers each year.
Estimated? By who? On what basis? Without actual records, at best, it's just hearsay evidence - although I find it difficult to believe that the US Government doesn't have a database of such things.
US police have killed over 5000 since 9/11
This is my point. One set of 'factual statistics' states over 303 since 2007, yet another claims over 5000 every year. While I agree that over 5000 is also over 303, I think it's clear that both statistics can't both be accurate.
Furthermore:
Though the U.S. government does not have a database collecting information about the total number of police involved shootings each year, it’s estimated that between 500 and 1,000 Americans are killed by police officers each year.
Estimated? By who? On what basis? Without actual records, at best, it's just hearsay evidence - although I find it difficult to believe that the US Government doesn't have a database of such things.
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High Threshold
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Another fatal shooting
FourPart;1461664 wrote: " ... the U.S. government does not have a database collecting information about the total number of police involved shootings each year ... "
This alone I find extremely odd! As a matter of fact I'm not really sure that I ..... uh ........ believe ..... um .......
FourPart;1461664 wrote: As I said, it's the Gun Culture. ......
The gun yes, but also a national inferiority complex that manifests itself in a “stand your ground custom of merit. This is where law is secondary to the expression of demanding respect of the submissive kind. This is where a more serious “crime can be overlooked (if you flatter or kowtow the police) but a very trivial matter can escalate into a shooting (as we see in this of many other examples) if you treat the situation with calm and aloofness.
This alone I find extremely odd! As a matter of fact I'm not really sure that I ..... uh ........ believe ..... um .......
FourPart;1461664 wrote: As I said, it's the Gun Culture. ......
The gun yes, but also a national inferiority complex that manifests itself in a “stand your ground custom of merit. This is where law is secondary to the expression of demanding respect of the submissive kind. This is where a more serious “crime can be overlooked (if you flatter or kowtow the police) but a very trivial matter can escalate into a shooting (as we see in this of many other examples) if you treat the situation with calm and aloofness.
Another fatal shooting
I know I shouldn't say.....but......I don't think America does "calm and aloofness" like us Europeans.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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High Threshold
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Another fatal shooting
Bruv;1461925 wrote: I know I shouldn't say.....but......I don't think America does "calm and aloofness" like us Europeans.
I think I might have to agree with that, but isn't it the consequence of the national, American, inferiority-complex that I was just talking about? Anyway, the report I read was that these two fellows were walking off the curbing. What a crime, huh! The police, the report claims, told them to get off the tarmack but one of them (both?) ignored it and carried on. In my own little way I call that "calm and aloof". That was the real crime ... not begging forgivness with a "yes sir, constable sir" - "awfully sorry, sir" - "my mistake, sir" ...... la-de-da-de-da. The copper felt that his authority had been slain and his personal ego damaged. The poor, big, pistol-packing, uniformed brute!
I think I might have to agree with that, but isn't it the consequence of the national, American, inferiority-complex that I was just talking about? Anyway, the report I read was that these two fellows were walking off the curbing. What a crime, huh! The police, the report claims, told them to get off the tarmack but one of them (both?) ignored it and carried on. In my own little way I call that "calm and aloof". That was the real crime ... not begging forgivness with a "yes sir, constable sir" - "awfully sorry, sir" - "my mistake, sir" ...... la-de-da-de-da. The copper felt that his authority had been slain and his personal ego damaged. The poor, big, pistol-packing, uniformed brute!
Another fatal shooting
High Threshold;1461912 wrote: This alone I find extremely odd! As a matter of fact I'm not really sure that I ..... uh ........ believe ..... um .......
Please note that those weren't my claims - merely quoting the report.
Please note that those weren't my claims - merely quoting the report.
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High Threshold
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Another fatal shooting
FourPart;1461951 wrote: Please note that those weren't my claims - merely quoting the report.
Yes, I know.
Yes, I know.
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Oscar Namechange
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Another fatal shooting
Dig deeper and Invariably there's more than meets the eye.
Police Say Ferguson’s “Good Kid” Michael Brown Allegedly Robbed a Store Moments Before His Death
Police Say Ferguson’s “Good Kid” Michael Brown Allegedly Robbed a Store Moments Before His Death
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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High Threshold
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Another fatal shooting
Oscar Namechange;1462040 wrote: Dig deeper and Invariably there's more than meets the eye.
Police Say Ferguson’s “Good Kid” Michael Brown Allegedly Robbed a Store Moments Before His Death
Ah well, there you are then! He deserved to die.
Police Say Ferguson’s “Good Kid” Michael Brown Allegedly Robbed a Store Moments Before His Death
Ah well, there you are then! He deserved to die.
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Oscar Namechange
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Another fatal shooting
High Threshold;1462042 wrote: Ah well, there you are then! He deserved to die. I'm not saying that for one minute. I just find the lefts media assumption that some rampant cop shot dead an Innocent for no reason rather repugnant.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Another fatal shooting
I just saw a press conference with the Ferguson Police chief stating that the officer who shot brown did not know that Brown was a suspect in the reported robbery.
That is a bit confusing.
That is a bit confusing.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Another fatal shooting
The report says Allegedly several times, the video shows nothing other than a bit of rough handling........but even if he had just robbed the shop, I still don't think he should be gunned to death.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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High Threshold
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Another fatal shooting
Oscar Namechange;1462047 wrote: I'm not saying that for one minute.
Perhaps not, but you must admit that your comment does lean in that direction.
LarsMac;1462048 wrote: I just saw a press conference with the Ferguson Police chief stating that the officer who shot brown did not know that Brown was a suspect in the reported robbery.
Oh well, the ends justify the murder, eh?
Bruv;1462052 wrote: ...... I still don't think he should be gunned to death.
..... not to put too fine a point on it.
Perhaps not, but you must admit that your comment does lean in that direction.
LarsMac;1462048 wrote: I just saw a press conference with the Ferguson Police chief stating that the officer who shot brown did not know that Brown was a suspect in the reported robbery.
Oh well, the ends justify the murder, eh?
Bruv;1462052 wrote: ...... I still don't think he should be gunned to death.
..... not to put too fine a point on it.
Another fatal shooting
The article says that the officer was responding to a 911 call. He was therefore on alert.
Someone then attacks him in his patrol car & tries to take his gun away from him.
The attacker gets shot in the process.
A riot ensues because the attacker was black & an all round good kid, who could do no wrong.
Video evidence then comes to light that unmistakenly identifies the 'all round good kid' as the person involved in the 911 call concerning the robbery.
These are the facts, as reported.
Ladies & Gentlemen of the Jury, I leave you to make your verdict.
Someone then attacks him in his patrol car & tries to take his gun away from him.
The attacker gets shot in the process.
A riot ensues because the attacker was black & an all round good kid, who could do no wrong.
Video evidence then comes to light that unmistakenly identifies the 'all round good kid' as the person involved in the 911 call concerning the robbery.
These are the facts, as reported.
Ladies & Gentlemen of the Jury, I leave you to make your verdict.
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High Threshold
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Another fatal shooting
FourPart;1462085 wrote: The article says that the officer was responding to a 911 call. He was therefore on alert.
Someone then attacks him in his patrol car & tries to take his gun away from him.
The attacker gets shot in the process.
A riot ensues because the attacker was black & an all round good kid, who could do no wrong.
Video evidence then comes to light that unmistakenly identifies the 'all round good kid' as the person involved in the 911 call concerning the robbery.
These are the facts, as reported.
I see.
FourPart;1462085 wrote: Ladies & Gentlemen of the Jury, I leave you to make your verdict.
A bit too late for that. It turns out that the all round good kid who was caught on camera, made presumably the first bad judgement of his mere 17-whatever years, and was executed by a trigger-happy police officer without the benefit of a trial.
Someone then attacks him in his patrol car & tries to take his gun away from him.
The attacker gets shot in the process.
A riot ensues because the attacker was black & an all round good kid, who could do no wrong.
Video evidence then comes to light that unmistakenly identifies the 'all round good kid' as the person involved in the 911 call concerning the robbery.
These are the facts, as reported.
I see.
FourPart;1462085 wrote: Ladies & Gentlemen of the Jury, I leave you to make your verdict.
A bit too late for that. It turns out that the all round good kid who was caught on camera, made presumably the first bad judgement of his mere 17-whatever years, and was executed by a trigger-happy police officer without the benefit of a trial.
Another fatal shooting
Right..................... thats it..... arm all super market security guards , shoot shoppers that set off the security alarm at the exits.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Another fatal shooting
Let's be rational for a minute, shall we? The story goes that the police officer struggled with the victim who then tried to grab his gun.
After seeing the video of the robbery, where the defendant obviously physically intimidates the owner who catches him, I would say that the probability of that story being true has increased.
It still doesn't mean that deadly force should have been used, but it does make it more likely that it might have been needed.
After seeing the video of the robbery, where the defendant obviously physically intimidates the owner who catches him, I would say that the probability of that story being true has increased.
It still doesn't mean that deadly force should have been used, but it does make it more likely that it might have been needed.
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recovering conservative
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Another fatal shooting
Oscar Namechange;1462047 wrote: I'm not saying that for one minute. I just find the lefts media assumption that some rampant cop shot dead an Innocent for no reason rather repugnant.
Yes, you are saying that! Not directly...just leaving the usual trail of breadcrumbs in the same way that the police chief did, who released that information just prior to his funeral.
Someone who looks like the victim got into an argument with a store clerk...grabbed a box of cigars off the shelf, threatened the clerk who approached him, and then walked out the door. And the fact that he was later gunned down by a cop (who did not identify him or suspect him of that theft) is right wing karma in Foxnews land!
Yes, you are saying that! Not directly...just leaving the usual trail of breadcrumbs in the same way that the police chief did, who released that information just prior to his funeral.
Someone who looks like the victim got into an argument with a store clerk...grabbed a box of cigars off the shelf, threatened the clerk who approached him, and then walked out the door. And the fact that he was later gunned down by a cop (who did not identify him or suspect him of that theft) is right wing karma in Foxnews land!
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recovering conservative
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Another fatal shooting
Saint_;1462107 wrote: Let's be rational for a minute, shall we? The story goes that the police officer struggled with the victim who then tried to grab his gun.
After seeing the video of the robbery, where the defendant obviously physically intimidates the owner who catches him, I would say that the probability of that story being true has increased.
It still doesn't mean that deadly force should have been used, but it does make it more likely that it might have been needed.
The cop's story sounds like a contrivance; especially after considering it along with a stack of recent stories on police abuse of powers in Ferguson. One of the highlights is the Daily Beast expose of an incident where the police arrested the wrong man for a crime, threw him in a jail cell overnight without a bed, stormed the jail cell when he argued over his treatment, bloodied his face, and then charged him with "property damage" for getting blood on his uniform: The Day Ferguson Cops Were Caught in a Bloody Lie - The Daily Beast
No doubt there are many similar stories that are fueling the riots and anarchy afterwards, as an increasingly right wing confiscatory economic regime is being maintained by the gradual creation of a police state....at least in the poorest areas of the Nation! I have to wonder if some of the political policymakers and the oligarchs who pay them, noticed that in Latin America, Africa and most of Asia, the rich do not make concessions to the poor like a War On Poverty and the baby steps taken since the 60's to reduce class divisions. No, they have police who operate as paramilitary forces that suppress uprisings in brutal fashion, and bust down doors to take away suspected leaders in the middle of the night. And then they have brutal "justice" systems where defendants with no money have no defense from spending long years in prison. I'm sure that the John Galt and Howard Roarke wannabes in America have been taking notes and asking 'why don't we do like they do? It's a lot cheaper to suppress the mob than provide decent housing and the chance for a decent education and good-paying jobs.'
Unfortunately, the lesson for average citizens is that: if you engage in peaceful protest and sitdown demonstrations in the America of today, you get your head bashed in and treated like a violent criminal by police dressed like stormtroopers! That was the lesson of the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations three years ago...and it's the same lesson the peaceful environmental activists and antiwar demonstrators have been given also. A fascist tyranny does not respect opposition of any type, and only fears the ones who will react violently. When riots and civil strife threaten the public order, they will make a calculation to either: ramp up suppression or make some concessions. Like they say: the squeaky wheel gets the grease!
After seeing the video of the robbery, where the defendant obviously physically intimidates the owner who catches him, I would say that the probability of that story being true has increased.
It still doesn't mean that deadly force should have been used, but it does make it more likely that it might have been needed.
The cop's story sounds like a contrivance; especially after considering it along with a stack of recent stories on police abuse of powers in Ferguson. One of the highlights is the Daily Beast expose of an incident where the police arrested the wrong man for a crime, threw him in a jail cell overnight without a bed, stormed the jail cell when he argued over his treatment, bloodied his face, and then charged him with "property damage" for getting blood on his uniform: The Day Ferguson Cops Were Caught in a Bloody Lie - The Daily Beast
No doubt there are many similar stories that are fueling the riots and anarchy afterwards, as an increasingly right wing confiscatory economic regime is being maintained by the gradual creation of a police state....at least in the poorest areas of the Nation! I have to wonder if some of the political policymakers and the oligarchs who pay them, noticed that in Latin America, Africa and most of Asia, the rich do not make concessions to the poor like a War On Poverty and the baby steps taken since the 60's to reduce class divisions. No, they have police who operate as paramilitary forces that suppress uprisings in brutal fashion, and bust down doors to take away suspected leaders in the middle of the night. And then they have brutal "justice" systems where defendants with no money have no defense from spending long years in prison. I'm sure that the John Galt and Howard Roarke wannabes in America have been taking notes and asking 'why don't we do like they do? It's a lot cheaper to suppress the mob than provide decent housing and the chance for a decent education and good-paying jobs.'
Unfortunately, the lesson for average citizens is that: if you engage in peaceful protest and sitdown demonstrations in the America of today, you get your head bashed in and treated like a violent criminal by police dressed like stormtroopers! That was the lesson of the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations three years ago...and it's the same lesson the peaceful environmental activists and antiwar demonstrators have been given also. A fascist tyranny does not respect opposition of any type, and only fears the ones who will react violently. When riots and civil strife threaten the public order, they will make a calculation to either: ramp up suppression or make some concessions. Like they say: the squeaky wheel gets the grease!
Another fatal shooting
One thing you should always remember when the Media get their teeth into a potentially explosive situation, the last thing they want is to let it calm down. If they can promote it further & stir up a few riots here & there, then they get increased ratings & more money.
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High Threshold
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Another fatal shooting
FourPart;1462120 wrote: One thing you should always remember when the Media get their teeth into a potentially explosive situation, the last thing they want is to let it calm down. If they can promote it further & stir up a few riots here & there, then they get increased ratings & more money.
I agree with this 376% but then the question must be asked; Why would anyone actually purchase a newspaper in the first place? I don't. I occasionally glance through the Metro, as it's lying on the seat of the bus, and even the rubbish in that disgusts me. Can you imagine actually paying for the thing!!! There is absolutely nothing in the newspaper of any worth at all. Newspapers are a curse on mankind.
I agree with this 376% but then the question must be asked; Why would anyone actually purchase a newspaper in the first place? I don't. I occasionally glance through the Metro, as it's lying on the seat of the bus, and even the rubbish in that disgusts me. Can you imagine actually paying for the thing!!! There is absolutely nothing in the newspaper of any worth at all. Newspapers are a curse on mankind.
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recovering conservative
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Another fatal shooting
High Threshold;1462125 wrote: I agree with this 376% but then the question must be asked; Why would anyone actually purchase a newspaper in the first place? I don't. I occasionally glance through the Metro, as it's lying on the seat of the bus, and even the rubbish in that disgusts me. Can you imagine actually paying for the thing!!! There is absolutely nothing in the newspaper of any worth at all. Newspapers are a curse on mankind.
I'm still a newspaper subscriber. But, we still have an independent...fairly decent local paper. And besides, when we're done reading it (which doesn't take long these days), they make good doggie papers for our aging dog who can't hold it for his twice-daily walks anymore.
I'm still a newspaper subscriber. But, we still have an independent...fairly decent local paper. And besides, when we're done reading it (which doesn't take long these days), they make good doggie papers for our aging dog who can't hold it for his twice-daily walks anymore.
Another fatal shooting
recovering conservative;1462133 wrote: I'm still a newspaper subscriber. But, we still have an independent...fairly decent local paper. And besides, when we're done reading it (which doesn't take long these days), they make good doggie papers for our aging dog who can't hold it for his twice-daily walks anymore.
Ah, we have the Daily Mail for that. Purpose made
Ah, we have the Daily Mail for that. Purpose made
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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High Threshold
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Another fatal shooting
recovering conservative;1462133 wrote: I'm still a newspaper subscriber. But, we still have an independent...fairly decent local paper. And besides, when we're done reading it (which doesn't take long these days), they make good doggie papers for our aging dog who can't hold it for his twice-daily walks anymore.
:wah:
Snowfire;1462135 wrote: Ah, we have the Daily Mail for that. Purpose made
I must admit that page 3 of The Sun has some rather interesting articles. It's good to see that there is at least one news outlet that keeps the masses on their toes.
But as Jim Hacker once said,
"The Daily Mirror is read by the people who think they run the country. The Guardian is read by people who think they "ought" to run the country. The Times is read by the people who actually "do" run the country. The Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country. The Financial Times is read by people who "own" the country. The Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by "another" country. The Daily Telegraph is read by the people who think it is .......... and Sun readers don't care "who" runs the country - as long as she's got big tits."
:wah:
Snowfire;1462135 wrote: Ah, we have the Daily Mail for that. Purpose made
I must admit that page 3 of The Sun has some rather interesting articles. It's good to see that there is at least one news outlet that keeps the masses on their toes.
But as Jim Hacker once said,
"The Daily Mirror is read by the people who think they run the country. The Guardian is read by people who think they "ought" to run the country. The Times is read by the people who actually "do" run the country. The Daily Mail is read by the wives of the people who run the country. The Financial Times is read by people who "own" the country. The Morning Star is read by people who think the country ought to be run by "another" country. The Daily Telegraph is read by the people who think it is .......... and Sun readers don't care "who" runs the country - as long as she's got big tits."
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Oscar Namechange
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Another fatal shooting
Snowfire;1462135 wrote: Ah, we have the Daily Mail for that. Purpose made
" Whether anyone likes It or not, we have a free press In this country and while those who sneer at the Daily Mail for being right wing, they forget It was the Daily Mail that campaigned for 10 years for justice for Stephen Lawrence. If we didn't have that free press, we would not be the democracy we are"
Or words to that effect as best as my memory serves me.... who said that ?
Ian Hislop
" Whether anyone likes It or not, we have a free press In this country and while those who sneer at the Daily Mail for being right wing, they forget It was the Daily Mail that campaigned for 10 years for justice for Stephen Lawrence. If we didn't have that free press, we would not be the democracy we are"
Or words to that effect as best as my memory serves me.... who said that ?
Ian Hislop
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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High Threshold
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Another fatal shooting
Oscar Namechange;1462167 wrote: " Whether anyone likes It or not, we have a free press In this country and while those who sneer at the Daily Mail for being right wing, they forget It was the Daily Mail that campaigned for 10 years for justice for Stephen Lawrence. If we didn't have that free press, we would not be the democracy we are"
You make a valid point, however I do believe that democracy would be BETTER served if the media were dedicated to honest reporting, instead of coveting their own political agendas and tweeking (and second-guessing) the facts in order to fit that agenda. Honest reporting would do the world a lot more good than perpetuating turmoil.
Personally, I much prefer one media source (if it were unbiased and honest) than a dozen just making it up as they go along. In other words, better to have real Democracy than a watered-down ad hoc version of it.
You make a valid point, however I do believe that democracy would be BETTER served if the media were dedicated to honest reporting, instead of coveting their own political agendas and tweeking (and second-guessing) the facts in order to fit that agenda. Honest reporting would do the world a lot more good than perpetuating turmoil.
Personally, I much prefer one media source (if it were unbiased and honest) than a dozen just making it up as they go along. In other words, better to have real Democracy than a watered-down ad hoc version of it.
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Oscar Namechange
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Another fatal shooting
recovering conservative;1462111 wrote: Yes, you are saying that! Not directly...just leaving the usual trail of breadcrumbs in the same way that the police chief did, who released that information just prior to his funeral.
!
No doubt I'll get some flack for this but... If the pro gun lobby In America vote that the population has the right to bear arms, then this Is the ultimate outcome.
If In America you are dumb enough to attempt to rob your local store, chances are, someone's going to call the cops and you'll find yourself In a stand off with them.
Want to avoid that? Then don't attempt to rob your local store. The very nature of the act will put you In a perilous situation.
Police officers In the USA have absolutely no Idea whether they are going to go home to their families each day. The entire nation carries guns, so It's common sense that police officers are going to fear the worst when dealing with a robber. That's because of the gun culture In that country. If those robbing their local store haven't got the brains to understand that, then It's not the police departments fault.
Whites killed by US police stand at 8.7 % and before you think that's low, In 2013 black or black American population was standing at 13.2 %. By the law of averages, cops will shoot black people just as much as they are likely to shoot whites.
However, how many cities did you see on fire from the 8.7 % of whites shot by police?
We have the same In England.
The Met accounts for more than one in five deaths related to police contact in England Wales since 1990. This statistic peaked in 1993 when 19 of the year's 41 deaths were recorded as relating to the force.
Datablog: deaths after police contact or in police custody | News | theguardian.com
But our police shoot black Mark Duggan, a drug dealing, gun carrying gangster and the country Is on fire and rioting....
No kid deserves to be killed, I'm not saying that but this Is about accepting responsibilty and accountability. Instead of looking at the police, look at the Mother who raised her child to go out and rob those people who are just trying to make a living.
!
No doubt I'll get some flack for this but... If the pro gun lobby In America vote that the population has the right to bear arms, then this Is the ultimate outcome.
If In America you are dumb enough to attempt to rob your local store, chances are, someone's going to call the cops and you'll find yourself In a stand off with them.
Want to avoid that? Then don't attempt to rob your local store. The very nature of the act will put you In a perilous situation.
Police officers In the USA have absolutely no Idea whether they are going to go home to their families each day. The entire nation carries guns, so It's common sense that police officers are going to fear the worst when dealing with a robber. That's because of the gun culture In that country. If those robbing their local store haven't got the brains to understand that, then It's not the police departments fault.
Whites killed by US police stand at 8.7 % and before you think that's low, In 2013 black or black American population was standing at 13.2 %. By the law of averages, cops will shoot black people just as much as they are likely to shoot whites.
However, how many cities did you see on fire from the 8.7 % of whites shot by police?
We have the same In England.
The Met accounts for more than one in five deaths related to police contact in England Wales since 1990. This statistic peaked in 1993 when 19 of the year's 41 deaths were recorded as relating to the force.
Datablog: deaths after police contact or in police custody | News | theguardian.com
But our police shoot black Mark Duggan, a drug dealing, gun carrying gangster and the country Is on fire and rioting....
No kid deserves to be killed, I'm not saying that but this Is about accepting responsibilty and accountability. Instead of looking at the police, look at the Mother who raised her child to go out and rob those people who are just trying to make a living.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Betty Boop
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Another fatal shooting
Oscar Namechange;1462167 wrote: " Whether anyone likes It or not, we have a free press In this country and while those who sneer at the Daily Mail for being right wing, they forget It was the Daily Mail that campaigned for 10 years for justice for Stephen Lawrence. If we didn't have that free press, we would not be the democracy we are"
Or words to that effect as best as my memory serves me.... who said that ?
Ian Hislop
Just a minor nag, if that is your paraphrasing please do not put quotation marks round it, thank you.
Or words to that effect as best as my memory serves me.... who said that ?
Ian Hislop
Just a minor nag, if that is your paraphrasing please do not put quotation marks round it, thank you.
Another fatal shooting
Oscar Namechange;1462167 wrote: " Whether anyone likes It or not, we have a free press In this country and while those who sneer at the Daily Mail for being right wing, they forget It was the Daily Mail that campaigned for 10 years for justice for Stephen Lawrence. If we didn't have that free press, we would not be the democracy we are"
Or words to that effect as best as my memory serves me.... who said that ?
Ian Hislop
My problem with the DM isn't necessarily that its right wing. The Times and the Telegraph are hardly bastions of the Left, they pretty much support the establishment but are at least head and shoulders above the Mail for upholding genuine principles in journalism, on the whole. My issue is their honesty in a lot of their reporting - and they are not alone in this but lead the way by a country mile - and their ability to manufacture and conjure the most appalling fearmongering. They pander to the withering, mithering (there's that word again) highly Anglo Saxon middle class, blue rinse, hang 'em high, chop their hands off, Johnny foreigner hating brigade.
Whats wrong with the papers that try at least tell us the truth and what really happens in the world, rather than stir up the pot, just to allow Major Farquar (ret) and his angry wife an excuse to shout "bring back the birch"
Or words to that effect as best as my memory serves me.... who said that ?
Ian Hislop
My problem with the DM isn't necessarily that its right wing. The Times and the Telegraph are hardly bastions of the Left, they pretty much support the establishment but are at least head and shoulders above the Mail for upholding genuine principles in journalism, on the whole. My issue is their honesty in a lot of their reporting - and they are not alone in this but lead the way by a country mile - and their ability to manufacture and conjure the most appalling fearmongering. They pander to the withering, mithering (there's that word again) highly Anglo Saxon middle class, blue rinse, hang 'em high, chop their hands off, Johnny foreigner hating brigade.
Whats wrong with the papers that try at least tell us the truth and what really happens in the world, rather than stir up the pot, just to allow Major Farquar (ret) and his angry wife an excuse to shout "bring back the birch"
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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Oscar Namechange
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Another fatal shooting
Snowfire;1462172 wrote: My problem with the DM isn't necessarily that its right wing. The Times and the Telegraph are hardly bastions of the Left, they pretty much support the establishment but are at least head and shoulders above the Mail for upholding genuine principles in journalism, on the whole. My issue is their honesty in a lot of their reporting - and they are not alone in this but lead the way by a country mile - and their ability to manufacture and conjure the most appalling fearmongering. They pander to the withering, mithering (there's that word again) highly Anglo Saxon middle class, blue rinse, hang 'em high, chop their hands off, Johnny foreigner hating brigade.
Whats wrong with the papers that try at least tell us the truth and what really happens in the world, rather than stir up the pot, just to allow Major Farquar (ret) and his angry wife an excuse to shout "bring back the birch"
How can you say the DM Is read by ' Johnny foreigner hating brigade.' when the DM went with the headlines, naming Stephen Lawrence's alleged killers before they were arrested and tried, daring them to sue?
How can you say It's readers are ' Johnny foreigner hating brigade' when many of them got behind the DM's campaign for 10 years to bring those named to justice?
It's a total contradiction of a misconception by many who don't actually even read the paper.
Whats wrong with the papers that try at least tell us the truth and what really happens in the world, rather than stir up the pot, just to allow Major Farquar (ret) and his angry wife an excuse to shout "bring back the birch"
How can you say the DM Is read by ' Johnny foreigner hating brigade.' when the DM went with the headlines, naming Stephen Lawrence's alleged killers before they were arrested and tried, daring them to sue?
How can you say It's readers are ' Johnny foreigner hating brigade' when many of them got behind the DM's campaign for 10 years to bring those named to justice?
It's a total contradiction of a misconception by many who don't actually even read the paper.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Another fatal shooting
And it should be congratulated for taking such a stance. My point is it's rare when should be the norm.
When deliberating the problems in the middle east, Ukraine, China, North American politics, European economic monetary issues, who should I read ? Bill O'Reilly or Noam Chomsky ? Richard Littlejohn or Robert Fisk ?
When deliberating the problems in the middle east, Ukraine, China, North American politics, European economic monetary issues, who should I read ? Bill O'Reilly or Noam Chomsky ? Richard Littlejohn or Robert Fisk ?
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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Oscar Namechange
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Another fatal shooting
Snowfire;1462175 wrote: And it should be congratulated for taking such a stance. My point is it's rare when should be the norm.
When deliberating the problems in the middle east, Ukraine, China, North American politics, European economic monetary issues, who should I read ? Bill O'Reilly or Noam Chomsky ? Richard Littlejohn or Robert Fisk ?
There In a nutshell you have the perfect example of which Hislop was saying.... the right to choice, the right to freedom of press, the right and the freedom In which to choose what you read, and who writes It. That's democracy for you. Or would you prefer a state regualted media?
When deliberating the problems in the middle east, Ukraine, China, North American politics, European economic monetary issues, who should I read ? Bill O'Reilly or Noam Chomsky ? Richard Littlejohn or Robert Fisk ?
There In a nutshell you have the perfect example of which Hislop was saying.... the right to choice, the right to freedom of press, the right and the freedom In which to choose what you read, and who writes It. That's democracy for you. Or would you prefer a state regualted media?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Another fatal shooting
Oscar Namechange;1462176 wrote: There In a nutshell you have the perfect example of which Hislop was saying.... the right to choice, the right to freedom of press, the right and the freedom In which to choose what you read, and who writes It. That's democracy for you. Or would you prefer a state regualted media?
From where do you glean that I might prefer a State regulated media ?
My choice is to wipe up the dog **** with the Daily Mail rather than read it
From where do you glean that I might prefer a State regulated media ?
My choice is to wipe up the dog **** with the Daily Mail rather than read it
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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Oscar Namechange
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Another fatal shooting
Snowfire;1462177 wrote: From where do you glean that I might prefer a State regulated media ?
My choice is to wipe up the dog **** with the Daily Mail rather than read it
Then If you don't read It, how do you know how many articles have been printed praising old Johnny Foriegner?
My choice is to wipe up the dog **** with the Daily Mail rather than read it
Then If you don't read It, how do you know how many articles have been printed praising old Johnny Foriegner?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Another fatal shooting
Oscar Namechange;1462178 wrote: Then If you don't read It, how do you know how many articles have been printed praising old Johnny Foriegner?
Well I always afford you the courtesy of glancing at your links when you post them, before rolling my eyes and shaking my head
Well I always afford you the courtesy of glancing at your links when you post them, before rolling my eyes and shaking my head
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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Oscar Namechange
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Another fatal shooting
Snowfire;1462179 wrote: Well I always afford you the courtesy of glancing at your links when you post them, before rolling my eyes and shaking my head The articles I have linked here are fractional In comparison to the thousands printed every year.
Linking, reading, choosing to agree... It's all selective.
Linking, reading, choosing to agree... It's all selective.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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High Threshold
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Another fatal shooting
Oscar Namechange;1462169 wrote: Whites killed by US police stand at 8.7 % and before you think that's low, In 2013 black or black American population was standing at 13.2 %. By the law of averages, cops will shoot black people just as much as they are likely to shoot whites.
However, how many cities did you see on fire from the 8.7 % of whites shot by police?
I'm going to take a stab at putting some light onto this dilemma without any facts, figures or statistics. Just guessing.
Criminals are the minority of any community, not the majority. But if police brutality or any other social injustice is committed, then the community it affects the most will (and should) react in proportion to its affect.
If a white criminal is apprehended, it is most often regarded by the white community as a crime of greed, (for example) and the brutality he/she might receive from the police is thought of as “isolated.
If a black criminal is apprehended, it is often regarded by the black community as a crime of “necessity ¦.. allow me to play with words and superlatives just for the sake of the discussion. The black community sees police brutality, in this case, as just another example of indirect, racist sentiment.
Now you can say it's simply a matter of playing the racist card to their advantage - but they do have a point.
However, how many cities did you see on fire from the 8.7 % of whites shot by police?
I'm going to take a stab at putting some light onto this dilemma without any facts, figures or statistics. Just guessing.
Criminals are the minority of any community, not the majority. But if police brutality or any other social injustice is committed, then the community it affects the most will (and should) react in proportion to its affect.
If a white criminal is apprehended, it is most often regarded by the white community as a crime of greed, (for example) and the brutality he/she might receive from the police is thought of as “isolated.
If a black criminal is apprehended, it is often regarded by the black community as a crime of “necessity ¦.. allow me to play with words and superlatives just for the sake of the discussion. The black community sees police brutality, in this case, as just another example of indirect, racist sentiment.
Now you can say it's simply a matter of playing the racist card to their advantage - but they do have a point.