Joan Rivers dies

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:21 pm

The comedian Joan Rivers, whose mastery of the acid one-liner never wavered during a career that spanned five decades and many more surgical procedures, died on Thursday aged 81

I have enjoyed her acerbic wit, although at times she went over the top......like this.

theia · Post by **theia** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:26 pm

RIP Joan. I liked your humour.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:02 pm

RIP Joan

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:18 pm

I didn't like her comedy especially her stand up.

Yet, I liked her. I liked her attitude and pazzazz

I saw the news about the vocal chords operation and I was willing her to pull through.

Great shame. She was the type of lady you wanted to see go out with a bang, not like this.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:56 pm

I'm crushed. I love her. Watched her, read her, saw her. Very sad by this. The only upside is I doubt she suffered. I miss her already.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:02 pm

Bruv: "I have enjoyed her acerbic wit, although at times she went over the top......like this."

She wasn't performing at the time Bruv, she was stating her opinion, her truth. She was entitled as much as anyone else to say how she sees it. I gotta admit, she made sense to me. But, we're Jews. Maybe that has something to do with it. I respect her opinion more than Selena Gomez, that college grad.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 5:04 pm

Oscar Namechange;1463614 wrote: I didn't like her comedy especially her stand up.

Yet, I liked her. I liked her attitude and pazzazz

I saw the news about the vocal chords operation and I was willing her to pull through.

Great shame. She was the type of lady you wanted to see go out with a bang, not like this.

It wasn't an operation, it was a procedure, an endoscopy, requiring anesthesia. Due to her age, she should not have been allowed to have this done as an out-patient, it should have been performed in a hospital. That's the mystery to me.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:00 pm

Anne

I so agree with you as the procedure should've been conducted in a hospital.

as soon as I heard this last week - I knew it wasn't going to be a good out come.

I loved her - I've always loved her wit.

One bold out spoken - strong willed female

I'll miss her show "Fashion Police"

I miss her already

Patsy

Post by **spot** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:14 am

Perhaps someone could tell me, since I'm a long way from understanding the point of most of what she said: was her scabrous use of obscene language an inherent aspect of her humor, or was it incidental? I'm not being sexist, I have just as little admiration toward foul-mouthed male performances. I merely wonder why she did it, since it was so much a part of her public image.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:48 am

spot;1463639 wrote: Perhaps someone could tell me, since I'm a long way from understanding the point of most of what she said: was her scabrous use of obscene language an inherent aspect of her humor, or was it incidental? I'm not being sexist, I have just as little admiration toward foul-mouthed male performances. I merely wonder why she did it, since it was so much a part of her public image.

If you are referring to that clip in the OP, that was not a performance.

She was rather rough at times. One of the last of the great generation of Stand up.

I offer some classic Joan Rivers:

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:15 am

Hilarious.........but I don't think it helped Spot appreciate her humour.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:32 am

AnneBoleyn;1463618 wrote: She wasn't performing at the time Bruv, she was stating her opinion, her truth....................I respect her opinion more than Selena Gomez, that college grad.

I think she was performing, I think everytime a camera points at her she performs. Nothing wrong with that, but to make part of the punchline 'the wiping out' of fish in a barrel.........I thought a step too far.

Even college grads can have opinions......can't they?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:16 am

Bruv;1463644 wrote: I think she was performing, I think everytime a camera points at her she performs. Nothing wrong with that, but to make part of the punchline 'the wiping out' of fish in a barrel.........I thought a step too far.

Even college grads can have opinions......can't they?

That really was her opinion. As for Selena, that was pure sarcasm, as I'm not sure Ms. Gomez even went to high school.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:18 am

spot;1463639 wrote: perhaps someone could tell me, since i'm a long way from understanding the point of most of what she said: Was her scabrous use of obscene language an inherent aspect of her humor, or was it incidental? I'm not being sexist, i have just as little admiration toward foul-mouthed male performances. I merely wonder why she did it, since it was so much a part of her public image.

Yes.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:20 am

Patsy, I loved & agree with every thing you said.

Post by **spot** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:21 am

AnneBoleyn;1463652 wrote: Yes.

So - correct me if I misunderstand - without her shocking use of obscenities she'd have just been another run-of-the-mill comedian in a world already oversupplied with comedians? The shocking use of obscenities was the point of her performance?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:25 am

spot;1463654 wrote: So - correct me if I misunderstand - without her shocking use of obscenities she'd have just been another run-of-the-mill comedian in a world already oversupplied with comedians? The shocking use of obscenities was the point of her performance?

No, it was Not the point of her performance. It was Part of her performance, to speak frankly, to say what others think but won't say. Like her good friend, Howard Stern. She was definitely Not run-of-the-mill either, but a trail blazer for women comedians. I don't think the world is over-supplied with comedians, but is over-supplied with greedy people, corrupt politicians & religious extremists of any stripe.

Post by **spot** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:33 am

AnneBoleyn;1463656 wrote: No, it was Not the point of her performance. It was Part of her performance [...] She was definitely Not run-of-the-mill either, but a trail blazer for women comedians.

I'll ask, since I can't see that an answer exists - how can you tell? Did she give any performances without the obscenities, allowing comparison? If she did and she still shone then obviously you're right, but if she never did I can't see anything other than faith to support your belief. Maybe she did and you can point me to a description.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:49 am

I continue to miss the 167 wild animals that Is repoted to have made this coat and many others she sported.

Attached files

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:54 am

spot;1463657 wrote: I'll ask, since I can't see that an answer exists - how can you tell? Did she give any performances without the obscenities, allowing comparison? If she did and she still shone then obviously you're right, but if she never did I can't see anything other than faith to support your belief. Maybe she did and you can point me to a description.

Some quotes.............will that do?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:54 am

spot;1463657 wrote: I'll ask, since I can't see that an answer exists - how can you tell? Did she give any performances without the obscenities, allowing comparison? If she did and she still shone then obviously you're right, but if she never did I can't see anything other than faith to support your belief. Maybe she did and you can point me to a description.

Yes, she certainly did give many, if not most, of her performances without obscenities. I have been watching Joan Rivers for 50 years now, she came up around the time of the Beatles. At the time, she was about 30 & single & most of her humor revolved around that "condition". At a live performance I saw, I remember her joke that her family home was on route to the freeway & her dad hung a neon sign on their front lawn "Last single girl before freeway," mimicking similar last chance signs before highways, i.e. 'last chance to buy gas (petrol to you). She mocked herself. The "dirty" humor came only recently, actually, as it is not the time of Lenny Bruce & dirty humor is acceptable. Several comedians, like Jerry Seinfeld, have kept their vow only to do "clean" humor. Joan had many other talents; she was a jewelry designer (a good one, at modest prices), an author, an actress. She has hosted talk shows, daytime shows as well as night. We are not allowed to "curse" on network TV here. She had a quick, acerbic wit & was brutally honest. She only "picked on" those who deliberately put themselves out to be mocked, i.e. the Kartrashians. She never, ever mocked average people.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:57 am

Bruv, good examples.

Oscar, no one is perfect. Most wealthy women sport furs, and many nouveau riche & wannabees as well. Even Lady Gaga, who is a staunch gay rights supporter, & supposed humanist, wears furs.

Post by **spot** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:00 am

AnneBoleyn;1463662 wrote: I have been watching Joan Rivers for 50 years now, she came up around the time of the Beatles.Ah - there's the bit I was missing. I was unaware of her history, I only ever saw her once and that was a televised interview last year with an unpleasant little tosser called Graham Norton - think Jonathan Ross without the brains. She swore in every sentence from start to finish and I was, not unreasonably, repelled. The swearing seemed the only reason anyone had invited this insanely smug hell-bat into the studio. I defer to your better-informed opinion.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:02 am

We get the Graham Norton show here too, on BBC America. Unwatchable.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:02 am

spot;1463657 wrote: I'll ask, since I can't see that an answer exists - how can you tell? Did she give any performances without the obscenities, allowing comparison? If she did and she still shone then obviously you're right, but if she never did I can't see anything other than faith to support your belief. Maybe she did and you can point me to a description.

Well, here is Joan being serious:

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:07 am

Lars, I've seen her say similar things like that before, but this tape is exceptional. Thanks!

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:08 am

I am wondering if Spot is trying to endear himself to Oscar with the Ross put downs.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:12 am

Bruv;1463670 wrote: I am wondering if Spot is trying to endear himself to Oscar with the Ross put downs. You really are a s,hit stirrer arn't you?

Seen the latest on Paul Ross? Dogging, snorting meow meow until his eyes exploded, cheating on his wife?

The exposure In the tabloids couldn't have happened to a more revolting odious cretin

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:15 am

Oscar Namechange;1463672 wrote: You really are a s,hit stirrer arn't you?

Seen the latest on Paul Ross? Dogging, snorting meow meow until his eyes exploded, cheating on his wife?

The exposure In the tabloids couldn't have happened to a more revolting odious cretin

Paul ?

Whats that got to do with the price of fish ?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:22 am

Bruv;1463673 wrote: Paul ?

Whats that got to do with the price of fish ? I'm leaving you here.... you know exactly what you're trying to do.... and so do I.

Back to topic... Joan Rivers personal attacks on other female celebs, I particually remember her onslaught on Betty White fed nations of women who loved a good b.itch about other women.... but didn't have the balls to say outright.... Audiences of women would guffaw heatedly at her because, secretly, deep down, she was saying exactly what they thought but PC did not allow them to say.

Post by **spot** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:26 am

Oscar Namechange;1463672 wrote: Seen the latest on Paul Ross?

I had to look up the name on Wikipedia, I was unaware of his existence until you mentioned him. I'm by no means convinced a cretin could take "The Life and Works of Ezra Pound" as his specialist subject in a celebrity edition of Mastermind or win the top prize on an episode of All Star Family Fortunes (though I'm less sure of myself as far as the latter feat is concerned, having no idea what winning the top prize on an episode of All Star Family Fortunes entails). Cretins, by contrast, have trouble forming sentences much less reading poetry.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:41 am

I recall Theia once agreeing with me on Paul Ross. That's good enough for me.

Equally Graham Norton Is similary educated, having recieved an honorary doctorate degree from University College Cork.

Norton currently writes an advice column in The Daily Telegraph newspaper. In October 2010, these columns were made into a book entitled Ask Graham, published by John Blake Publishing.

Graham Norton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Horses for courses.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:44 am

Oscar Namechange;1463675 wrote:

Back to topic... Joan Rivers personal attacks on other female celebs, I particually remember her onslaught on Betty White fed nations of women who loved a good b.itch about other women.... but didn't have the balls to say outright.... Audiences of women would guffaw heatedly at her because, secretly, deep down, she was saying exactly what they thought but PC did not allow them to say.

Exactly.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:44 am

Oscar Namechange;1463675 wrote: I'm leaving you here.... you know exactly what you're trying to do.... and so do I.

Back to topic... Joan Rivers personal attacks on other female celebs, I particually remember her onslaught on Betty White fed nations of women who loved a good b.itch about other women.... but didn't have the balls to say outright.... Audiences of women would guffaw heatedly at her because, secretly, deep down, she was saying exactly what they thought but PC did not allow them to say.

Joan Rivers and Betty White were friends. She always said that Betty White was her hero.

But, yeah, she made fun of a lot of women celebs. Most of them had it coming.

Post by **spot** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:45 am

Oscar Namechange;1463680 wrote: Horses for courses.Except I didn't call Graham Norton a cretin, so his educational attainments scarcely come into the matter. You're back in write-only mode, oscar.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:52 am

Instead of picking apart my words, how about we stick to topic and talk about Joan Rivers?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:53 am

LarsMac;1463682 wrote: Joan Rivers and Betty White were friends. She always said that Betty White was her hero.

But, yeah, she made fun of a lot of women celebs. Most of them had it coming.

You have it coming when you put yourself out there, deliberately seeking attention & being overpaid. If you can't stand the heat..........

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:58 am

AnneBoleyn;1463687 wrote: You have it coming when you put yourself out there, deliberately seeking attention & being overpaid. If you can't stand the heat..........

We have a comedian here. Frankie Boyle equally outrageous at attacking celebs. He does go a bit far such as the time he chose Katie Price's disabled son as his target. But the Irony Is, they then bitterly complain to the TV companies when they become the victim but the truth Is, they probably guffawed as much as the next man when the target was someone else.

Post by **spot** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:27 am

AnneBoleyn;1463662 wrote: We are not allowed to "curse" on network TV here.If I may, I'll explore this notion of obscenity as an optional extra where the medium allows it, and whether it has an inherently comic value. You mentioned Lenny Bruce but I never at any stage thought his use of obscenity had any comic intent - quite the reverse, I think he used it to pull his audience up short and make them listen to his meaning rather than bark their amusement like automata. People these days laughing automatically whenever they hear swearing on stage is just mindless, however common it undoubtedly is as a phenomenon.

There was an Englishman who performed largely in the United States by the name of Bob Hope. He was famed, among other things, for entertaining the troops in combat R&R zones. Can you imagine him taking advantage of the lack of broadcasting equipment to descend into the use of obscenities on stage? I certainly can't.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:53 am

Lenny was operating out of the times we lived in back then, when swear words in public were illegal. Lenny bravely challenged these laws, if I remember correctly he did serve time for obscenity. My real awareness came during the Berkeley CA 'Free Speech Movement' in the early '60's.

Free Speech Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lenny was a freedom pioneer for the first amendment.

Bob Hope. I can see him "descend into the use of obscenities on stage" if it had been socially acceptable & would make more $$ doing it. He didn't need to though. I found him funny until he chose to be a spokesperson for my government in Vietnam instead of merely entertaining the troops. I came to equate him with that, which is a shame because when he generalized politics humorously instead of being Fox News Advance Team I thought he was quite enjoyable. He was a great host of the Academy Awards, too.

Vietnam really killed humor for years.

Post by **Peter Lake** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:32 pm

Comedy is no different to politics in that we all have choice. Joan may not have been endearing to the British elite who kid themselves they never use expletives but world population, she appealed to millions who do. That is the real world, not some ridiculous notion that any human being never comes across as insulting or offensive. What is offensive to some, is not to others and it's about accepting, that in life, we don't all think the same. It has nothing to do with standards, i have seen footage of England's elite swearing far guttural than any comedian at fox hunts. Bob Hope may not have used offensive language but then, he did not appeal to the entire world, millions found him boring. Comedians find their own niche and target audience, they do not appeal to the global population because everyone has different tastes. To assume that one persons taste must be the same taste of others is also the same as politics, to force one taste upon another. I didn't like Ms River's comedy as it happens but she had millions of fans and that counts for everything.

You don't have to speak like docker to be offensive. Oscar's favourite.

Stand Up Simon Evans - YouTube

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:57 pm

Peter Lake;1463697 wrote: Oscar's favourite.

Stand Up Simon Evans - YouTube

He lives In Hove so I am biased. We all talk like that In Brighton and Hove :wah:

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:39 pm

Oscar Namechange;1463698 wrote: He lives In Hove so I am biased. We all talk like that In Brighton and Hove :wah:

Yes, he's very good

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:24 pm

Oscar Namechange;1463675 wrote: I'm leaving you here.... you know exactly what you're trying to do.... and so do I.

Make a little joke?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:27 pm

I found the Jerry Lewis verses Joan Rivers tiff on YouTube......was that serious ?

theia · Post by **theia** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:37 pm

Channel 5 is showing one of Joan's shows now. The Joan Rivers Position.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:35 am

Bruv;1463702 wrote: I found the Jerry Lewis verses Joan Rivers tiff on YouTube......was that serious ?

Yes. Jerry Lewis is a vicious man. Ask his kids & ex-wife. He takes himself way too seriously & is arrogant. I loved 'Martin & Lewis' & some of his early solo movies (of course I was a silly kid at the time), but he is nothing like that persona.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:46 am

AnneBoleyn;1463765 wrote: Yes. Jerry Lewis is a vicious man. Ask his kids & ex-wife. He takes himself way too seriously & is arrogant. I loved 'Martin & Lewis' & some of his early solo movies (of course I was a silly kid at the time), but he is nothing like that persona.

I learned a long time ago to not consider a person's private life when appreciating their public talent.

In fact, the less I know about "celebrities off-stage lives", the better.

People are, after all, just human.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:32 am

Yes. Jimmy Saville & Rolf Harris - such marvellous entertainers.

Post by **spot** » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:16 am

FourPart;1463775 wrote: Yes. Jimmy Saville & Rolf Harris - such marvellous entertainers.

I can vouch for Rolf Harris as being a marvelous entertainer having seen him on stage. A man can be many things. You may choose to disparage the fellow but you can't deny his artistic talent.