Ravages of War: LANGUAGE?

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:08 pm

I think it's ridiculous how Americans often say that we would be speaking German if it wasn't for the Americans. Even that idiot Donald Rumsfeld said so, when France refused to support the American invasion of Irak. Anyway, considering it was the Soviet Union who won the war it is possible that we would be speaking Russian if it wasn't for the Americans. On the other hand it was the Germans who told us that we would all be speaking English if Germany lost the war: THEY WERE RIGHT. What's even more funny is that I do speak German – and English and French and Spanish – PLUS my own language. So who do I have “to blame for that?

But you see, in Europe we believe that learning other languages is not a detriment, but A GOOD THING. Of course, Americans have no language at all. The vast majority of them don't speak English very well and that is probably why they have so many kindergarten, primary school, high school, college, university, post office, shopping mall, church, and road rage mass shootings ¦. they cannot communicate in any other way than with the gun.

So if speaking German is such a determining factor in the quality of life (as the Americans seem to think) then maybe learning German would have been a blessing even for the Americans, that way they too might not have waged war since the end of WW II?

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:22 pm

High Threshold;1465074 wrote: I think it's ridiculous how Americans often say that we would be speaking German if it wasn't for the Americans. Even that idiot Donald Rumsfeld said so, when France refused to support the American invasion of Irak. Anyway, considering it was the Soviet Union who won the war it is possible that we would be speaking Russian if it wasn't for the Americans. On the other hand it was the Germans who told us that we would all be speaking English if Germany lost the war: THEY WERE RIGHT. What's even more funny is that I do speak German – and English and French and Spanish – PLUS my own language. So who do I have “to blame for that?

But you see, in Europe we believe that learning other languages is not a detriment, but A GOOD THING. Of course, Americans have no language at all. The vast majority of them don't speak English very well and that is probably why they have so many kindergarten, primary school, high school, college, university, post office, shopping mall, church, and road rage mass shootings ¦. they cannot communicate in any other way than with the gun.

So if speaking German is such a determining factor in the quality of life (as the Americans seem to think) then maybe learning German would have been a blessing even for the Americans, that way they too might not have waged war since the end of WW II?
Now tell us what you really think of the US.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:31 pm

YZGI;1465093 wrote: Now tell us what you really think of the US.

I like Kentucky Fried Chicken, the small-block Chevy, “easy American women, Roger Stauback, and the fact that you can shoot anyone, anytime, anywhere and get away with it by claiming self-defence and an inferiority complex. :-6

What about you - what do you really think of the U.S?

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:49 pm

Well, I rather like it, myself. I am free to do what I want, within reason, and nobody has shot me, yet.

And even better, I have not shot anyone else. (Well, there was that one guy...)

And we have Bacon.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:21 pm

LarsMac;1465113 wrote: Well, I rather like it, myself. I am free to do what I want, within reason, and nobody has shot me, yet.

And even better, I have not shot anyone else. (Well, there was that one guy...)

And we have Bacon.

Mmmmmmmm! Bacon! The only factor differentiating America from an Islamic State!

Attached files

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:06 am

I'm not pro nor anti America but every time I read an American stating they are free to do what they want, within reason. I think, well yes, me too but I'm not American and I don't need it as a tag line to support my country.

Everyone in the world is basically free to do what they want, within reason.

On the flip side, no one in the world is totally and utterly free to do whatever they want.

That add on, 'within reason' amuses me immensely. The addition of those two words renders the first part of the sentence meaningless for me.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:16 am

Betty Boop;1465120 wrote: That add on, 'within reason' amuses me immensely. The addition of those two words renders the first part of the sentence meaningless for me.

You must be a mind-reader.

'Within reason': I'm thinking of the inmates at Abu Graib.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:57 am

You are absolutely right! We really don't even have to be reasonable.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:21 pm

LarsMac;1465127 wrote: You are absolutely right! We really don't even have to be reasonable.

Whatever "reasonable" is.

I am not into expanding the definition as I understand it.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 7:46 pm

The bit about the bacon is only partly true.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:56 am

george bernard shaw

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the conditions that surround him... The unreasonable man adapts surrounding conditions to himself... All progress depends on the unreasonable man."

It's also hindered by the unreasoning and unreasonable. (fundamentalist religious nutters of all stamps)

I like to think there is no more dangerous or frightening creature on earth than a reasonable man pushed to the point when they start to fight. That's why extremists are always shocked when they don't get their own way.

Not sure what I'm getting at here.:-5 a little help please

george bernard shaw

God help England if she had no Scots to think for her!

:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl He just went up in my estimation must try reading something he wrote.

Canadian bacon, john candy's last film.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:05 pm

America:

1. Only nation to land men on the Moon.

2. Invented Rock and Roll.

3. Invented Hollywood, the only truly global movie industry.

4. Invented nuclear weapons and won WWII.

5. Virtually exterminated the indigenous population, stole all their land, then represented itself as the only country on Earth to hold the moral high ground - and got away with it.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:30 pm

Bruv;1465195 wrote: The bit about the bacon is only partly true.
Which makes it not true. I've had bacon in England many times. The exception does not prove the rule, it destroys it.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:33 pm

Saint_;1465227 wrote: America:

1. Only nation to land men on the Moon.

2. Invented Rock and Roll.

3. Invented Hollywood, the only truly global movie industry.

4. Invented nuclear weapons and won WWII.

5. Virtually exterminated the indigenous population, stole all their land, then represented itself as the only country on Earth to hold the moral high ground - and got away with it.

I have objections to #'s 2 & 4---

Yes, Americans per se invented RnR but not without our black fellow Americans, the most important players in it.

Soviet Union, the Allies could not have won without them.

I'm just nit-picking.

Oh, and I'm not sure, judging by this audience, that we "got away with it". I was in Europe during Vietnam, & we sure were not getting away with or from that.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:44 pm

The Germans were working on Heavy Water, with which to arm their Atom Bomb. They had already 'invented' it. It's just that the war ended before they got a chance to complete it.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:52 pm

FourPart;1465238 wrote: The Germans were working on Heavy Water, with which to arm their Atom Bomb. They had already 'invented' it. It's just that the war ended before they got a chance to complete it.

And we managed to steal many of the physicists working on the bomb, we used the know-how they had acquired.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:53 pm

AnneBoleyn;1465240 wrote: And we managed to steal many of the physicists working on the bomb, we used the know-how they had acquired.

So it was really Germany that got to the moon ?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:13 am

Bruv;1465266 wrote: So it was really Germany that got to the moon ?

No, it was Human Beings from the Planet Earth.

As for the USA, everyone here is from some other nation. Every American has 'foreign' background. My paternal grandparents came from Austria; maternally speaking my grandfather was born in NYC but his parents recently emigrated from Germany; my maternal grandma is from Ukraine. What they had in common was that all were Ashkenazi Jews. My parents, both born in NYC considered themselves American Jews, with the American coming first, & I considered myself 100% American. American history was/is my history, not European.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:44 am

AnneBoleyn;1465231 wrote:

Soviet Union, the Allies could not have won without them.

The Soviet Union didn't defeat Japan.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:55 am

The Americans didn't even come into the war until the Japanese attacked them.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:09 am

FourPart;1465303 wrote: The Americans didn't even come into the war until the Japanese attacked them.

My point exactly. Without the Americans in the war, there would have been no North Africa, Italy, or Normandy campaigns and the Japanese would have been free to subjugate China and open another front on Russia. Split between Germany and China, Russia would have fallen and the rest of Europe would have followed. (The Lend Lease Act supplied the Russians who would surely have collapsed with out that aid. Stalin begged Roosevelt to open another front so you can see what pressure they were under.) Supplied with oil from North Africa, and with more time to finish it's nuclear program combined with it's V2 delivery system...Germany would have ruled the world.

You're welcome.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:10 pm

Germany pretty much does rule the world economically.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:09 pm

Saint_;1465304 wrote: My point exactly. Without the Americans in the war, there would have been no North Africa, Italy, or Normandy campaigns and the Japanese would have been free to subjugate China and open another front on Russia. Split between Germany and China, Russia would have fallen and the rest of Europe would have followed. (The Lend Lease Act supplied the Russians who would surely have collapsed with out that aid. Stalin begged Roosevelt to open another front so you can see what pressure they were under.) Supplied with oil from North Africa, and with more time to finish it's nuclear program combined with it's V2 delivery system...Germany would have ruled the world.

You're welcome.

Well said, Thank You.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:00 am

Saint_;1465295 wrote: The Soviet Union didn't defeat Japan.
You be right!

eta--embarrassed to say I forgot about Japan! No excuses, just 'Duhhh'.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:33 am

Saint_;1465304 wrote: My point exactly. Without the Americans in the war, there would have been no North Africa, Italy, or Normandy campaigns and the Japanese would have been free to subjugate China and open another front on Russia. Split between Germany and China, Russia would have fallen and the rest of Europe would have followed. (The Lend Lease Act supplied the Russians who would surely have collapsed with out that aid. Stalin begged Roosevelt to open another front so you can see what pressure they were under.) Supplied with oil from North Africa, and with more time to finish it's nuclear program combined with it's V2 delivery system...Germany would have ruled the world.

You're welcome.

Actually italy had been defeated in the mediterranean cape matapan etc etc. taranto is what convinced the japanese it would be possible to attack a fleet in harbour and led on to pearl harbour supposed to have and north africa which was why the afrika corps got involved, lend lease had nothing to do with the battles in 1940, 41 and 42 el alemain was a purely british victory with the australians playing rather an important role in it. The battle of britain was in 1940 and no thenks to the americans we won it. The bombing offensive was already underway before the americans joined in. It's easy to forget the russians had better tanks than the germans and their air force once it got going proved to be a match for the german one. The us wasn't the only combatant against the japanese it was the British and commonwealth troops that kicked them out of burma and malaysia and what was to become vietnam. There was a british carrier fleet operating in the pacific in the klatter part of 1944 and in 1945 - there were four british carriers at okinawa for instance - you just never see them mentioned in american histories or films about the period.

The russians did defeat the japanese at least in manchuria, as part of the yalta agreement they invaded manchuria and chased the japanese to the coast in some of the hardest fought battles of ww2.

I wouldn't underplay the part america played but it's an insult to everybody else involved to claim ww2 solely as a great american victory.

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:50 am

gmc;1465365 wrote: Actually italy had been defeated in the mediterranean cape matapan etc etc. taranto is what convinced the japanese it would be possible to attack a fleet in harbour and led on to pearl harbour supposed to have and north africa which was why the afrika corps got involved, lend lease had nothing to do with the battles in 1940, 41 and 42 el alemain was a purely british victory with the australians playing rather an important role in it. The battle of britain was in 1940 and no thenks to the americans we won it. The bombing offensive was already underway before the americans joined in. It's easy to forget the russians had better tanks than the germans and their air force once it got going proved to be a match for the german one. The us wasn't the only combatant against the japanese it was the British and commonwealth troops that kicked them out of burma and malaysia and what was to become vietnam. There was a british carrier fleet operating in the pacific in the klatter part of 1944 and in 1945 - there were four british carriers at okinawa for instance - you just never see them mentioned in american histories or films about the period.

The russians did defeat the japanese at least in manchuria, as part of the yalta agreement they invaded manchuria and chased the japanese to the coast in some of the hardest fought battles of ww2.

I wouldn't underplay the part america played but it's an insult to everybody else involved to claim ww2 solely as a great american victory.

Agreed.

What we (America) brought to the party was a massive manufacturing apparatus that was far away from the German and Japanese military reach. We could turn out the machinery and armament far out of the reach of enemy planes. The same with the Soviets. Their manufacturing was far east if the German offensive, and while the Germans were having a great time overrunning the abandoned farmlands of Western Russia and Ukraine, the Arms factories in the East were cranking out Tanks and guns and planes.

THAT is what turned the tide for the Allies.

But then, without the American personnel, I doubt that the Allies would have been able to invade Hitlers "Fortress Europe" and bring the two-front war to a reality, either.

While we were instrumental in bringing about the end of that war, we did not do it alone. The Soviets could have finished Hitler on their own, but it would have taken much longer, and I am not sure many Europeans would have liked the world that resulted from such a Soviet victory.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:34 am

LarsMac;1465366 wrote: Agreed.

What we (America) brought to the party was a massive manufacturing apparatus that was far away from the German and Japanese military reach. We could turn out the machinery and armament far out of the reach of enemy planes. The same with the Soviets. Their manufacturing was far east if the German offensive, and while the Germans were having a great time overrunning the abandoned farmlands of Western Russia and Ukraine, the Arms factories in the East were cranking out Tanks and guns and planes.

THAT is what turned the tide for the Allies.

But then, without the American personnel, I doubt that the Allies would have been able to invade Hitlers "Fortress Europe" and bring the two-front war to a reality, either.

While we were instrumental in bringing about the end of that war, we did not do it alone. The Soviets could have finished Hitler on their own, but it would have taken much longer, and I am not sure many Europeans would have liked the world that resulted from such a Soviet victory.

I would agree with you there, also you could probably make a good case that without nuclear weapons there would have been another war in europe by now

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:10 pm

And we're still paying the interest on the loan.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:45 pm

gmc;1465365 wrote: it's an insult to everybody else involved to claim ww2 solely as a great american victory.

There you go again...assuming that Americans want to live in a world that is real and worry about insulting anyone...