disabled not worth the minimum wage according to lord fraud ..the AA grumpy column

AA grumpy · Post by **AA grumpy** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:08 am

good afternoon from from grumpy towers and welcome to another platefull of sweet and sour grumpy.

i was going to post this shocking revelation last night but i decided to hold it over for todays column.

just when you think the Tories couldn't be more heartless Tory minister Lord Freud shows they can.

The PM’s welfare adviser argued disabled people are “not worth the minimum wage.

The Welfare Reform Minister later said he was “profoundly sorry as he scrambled to save his job after public outrage over the comments.

Even Tory Employment Minister Esther McVey admitted “those words will haunt him.

The Commons heard in stunned silence how, at a fringe meeting, Lord Freud answered a question from a Tory councillor about disabled people and the minimum wage.

Lord Freud was recorded saying: “You make a really good point about the disabled. There is a group, and I know exactly what you mean, where actually as you say they’re not worth the full wage.

The minister then suggested disabled people could “work for £2 an hour.

Lord Freud is a millionaire former City financier

He owns a £2 million pound house in London and a country home in Kent.

Pat Harrington, general secretary of Solidarity, commented: "It is worrying that a government minister holds views like this. Disabled people should be given the same wage as other workers. Arguably they should be a paid a little more to take into account their extra costs. To suggest that they should be paid less is reprehensible. I don't think an apology is enough. He should resign.

AAG

oh yes...the greedy multi millionaire companies would love this

there would be a mad scramble to ditch the polish workers and employ the disabled instead.

can you imagine it artificial limbs in asda, the blind at the chemist chain.. boots, colostomy bags in the co op, mobility scooters in morrisons and wheelchairs in wilkinsons heaven knows what you would find in tescos and the pound shop

shopping in morrisons would become a nightmare as you risk getting mowed down by a moblity scooter en route to the bacon counter.

but this wouldnt matter to the multi millionaire tories who already treat most of us as second class citizens especially the unemployed

what would the disabled become third class citizens?

i even possibly think that secretly gestapo werkfurer herr duncan smith would approve of this plan if the tories ever got back in to power

just because lord fraud caused a fuss today about £2 per hour for the disabled dont think it wouldnt be taken back out of the cupboard dusted

off and re named especially if cameron is returned to number 10 in next years general elections even the labour party would view this with a caustic eye as a good idea.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:29 am

LINK!!! Grumps to put the link in, not Oscar

AA grumpy · Post by **AA grumpy** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:43 am

sorry no link available just checked and the story has been taken down from the bnp website

apart from that the whole piece is here so no link required

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:55 am

I'll verify that It comes from the BNP website and was written by Chris Barnett If Andy needs to attribute the post to the author.

Pat Harrington who comments In the article Is a member of the BNP Executive Committee

AA grumpy · Post by **AA grumpy** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:03 am

thanks oscar but lets talk about the content of the post not trivialties like links and authors

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:09 am

AA grumpy;1466436 wrote: thanks oscar but lets talk about the content of the post not trivialties like links and authors Well, It's just an example of how the class divide Is still prominent In this country and how they seek to continue with It. I'm glad In a way he's said this... It just endorses what they really think.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:12 am

Hitler didn't just slaughter the Jews, he did the same to the disabled.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:13 am

AA grumpy;1466434 wrote: sorry no link available just checked and the story has been taken down from the bnp website

apart from that the whole piece is here so no link required

Grumps, you have copied and pasted, no matter what size the article is, a snippet or the whole thing then you need a link!

You could also do with making it clearer which parts of your posts are copy and paste.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:15 am

Perhaps this helps:

Lord Freud row: Senior Tory backs Welfare Minister over £2 wage for disabled - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

Or this:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/lo ... rs-4445349

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:15 am

AA grumpy;1466436 wrote: thanks oscar but lets talk about the content of the post not trivialties like links and authors

The author may well be trivial to you but if he happens upon his writing here without any acknowledgement that they are his words there will be trouble! He will assume you have stolen his words.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:17 am

Oscar Namechange;1466435 wrote: I'll verify that It comes from the BNP website and was written by Chris Barnett If Andy needs to attribute the post to the author.

Pat Harrington who comments In the article Is a member of the BNP Executive Committee

Now to work out which bit Chris Barnett did actually say. Thank you, why did they pull it off the site.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:37 am

So despite Andy asking we stick to the topic and despite Lars posting other links, you continue down this route.

You clearly have no understanding of what the BNP website Is about or any other political Party for that matter. The BNP want their articles copied and shared. They don't care If the author Is credited or not. They want people talking about their articles, that's how Interest develops. The last thing they worry about Is their articles being copied. In fact, they'd be delighted should Andy post the article on a public forum because they want mainstream discredited. They encourage everyone to share all the time.

The article has not been taken down. It will have been moved to sub headings. The site Is updated with new stories every day. If someone comments on an old article, It puts that old article back to the top of the page and the newest article moves down the page where people may not see It. That's how It works. I was somewhat embarrased only yesterday afternoon to find myself as a new article and on the top page... thankfully, I have moved down the site Into a sub heading.

Now, can we do as Andy asked and get back to topic ?

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:44 am

Oscar Namechange;1466444 wrote: So despite Andy asking we stick to the topic and despite Lars posting other links, you continue down this route.

You clearly have no understanding of what the BNP website Is about or any other political Party for that matter. The BNP want their articles copied and shared. They don't care If the author Is credited or not. They want people talking about their articles, that's how Interest develops. The last thing they worry about Is their articles being copied. In fact, they'd be delighted should Andy post the article on a public forum because they want mainstream discredited. They encourage everyone to share all the time.

The article has not been taken down. It will have been moved to sub headings. The site Is updated with new stories every day. If someone comments on an old article, It puts that old article back to the top of the page and the newest article moves down the page where people may not see It. That's how It works. I was somewhat embarrased only yesterday afternoon to find myself as a new article and on the top page... thankfully, I have moved down the site Into a sub heading.

Now, can we do as Andy asked and get back to topic ?

Well then, should no no trouble to share that link, right?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:50 am

LarsMac;1466445 wrote: Well then, should no no trouble to share that link, right? My pleasure. Only BB did order me not to provide the link for Andy... remember ?

The millionaire minister says slash pay for the disabled | National News | British National Party

https://www.change.org/p/sack-lord-freu ... VZ52DVju6S

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:54 am

Oscar Namechange;1466444 wrote: So despite Andy asking we stick to the topic and despite Lars posting other links, you continue down this route.

You clearly have no understanding of what the BNP website Is about or any other political Party for that matter. The BNP want their articles copied and shared. They don't care If the author Is credited or not. They want people talking about their articles, that's how Interest develops. The last thing they worry about Is their articles being copied. In fact, they'd be delighted should Andy post the article on a public forum because they want mainstream discredited. They encourage everyone to share all the time.

The article has not been taken down. It will have been moved to sub headings. The site Is updated with new stories every day. If someone comments on an old article, It puts that old article back to the top of the page and the newest article moves down the page where people may not see It. That's how It works. I was somewhat embarrased only yesterday afternoon to find myself as a new article and on the top page... thankfully, I have moved down the site Into a sub heading.

Now, can we do as Andy asked and get back to topic ?

If you, Andy or the BNP see no problem about stealing others words then why don't you get on with it on another forum, maybe a BNP exclusive site?

Whilst any of you are posting here you will post links to items copied and posted, I don't care if you think the author won't mind or not.

The rules here are

3. Copyrighted Material :

3.1 Please do not upload, attach or post anything that infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary rights of any party.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:02 am

Betty Boop;1466447 wrote: If you, Andy or the BNP see no problem about stealing others words then why don't you get on with it on another forum, maybe a BNP exclusive site?

Whilst any of you are posting here you will post links to items copied and posted, I don't care if you think the author won't mind or not.

The rules here are

Oh for goodness sake...Can't we just stick to the topic? Especially now we have established the story from Lars with other tabloid links and the original BNP link salvaged from the archives to establish where Andy got the story from.

The BNP website happens to be the most visited political website In the country. People are allowed to read It you know without having to go off and form another forum.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:47 am

Yes. Enough of grabbing Political Brownie Points. This is a diabolical proposition & has to be nipped in the bud.

I, for one have signed the petition & will be sending it to Ebe to get him to forward it to everyone at his Mosque.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:49 am

FourPart;14664 wrote:

I, for one have signed the petition & will be sending it to Ebe to get him to forward it to everyone at his Mosque. I signed It also and have posted It all over the place.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:00 am

If we sack all of the politicians that ever uttered something stupid, we would have no one to run the country.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:03 am

Oscar Namechange;1466438 wrote: Well, It's just an example of how the class divide Is still prominent In this country and how they seek to continue with It. I'm glad In a way he's said this... It just endorses what they really think.

Apparently the conversation was surreptitiously recorded by Labour, not too far away from the phone hacking carry on.

And the man himself confesses to have poorly worded the answer for which he has apologised. He says he meant that some people are so severely disadvantaged they might need to be paid lower than the minimum wage but subsidised by government up to a living wage. This is basically the principle that subsidises companies like Tesco that cover their working hours by employing many on shorter flexible hours to suit the companies trading hours, many of whom have their wages topped up by Government Benefits, that is the bigger scandal to my mind.

Oscar Namechange;1466439 wrote: Hitler didn't just slaughter the Jews, he did the same to the disabled.

Right wingers do tend to be like that......I try and steer clear.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:04 am

The problem here is that until we get the Recall Bill through (for which I have also signed the petition, as well as having written to my MP about) we don't actually have the power to sack our MPs until it comes to the next scheduled election.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:04 am

How did Ebe get into this ?

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:07 am

He's disabled with Polio & has always worked, despite being confined to an electric wheelchair & as such has a lot of other contacts in the Disabled circles as well.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:16 am

FourPart;1466457 wrote: He's disabled with Polio & has always worked, despite being confined to an electric wheelchair & as such has a lot of other contacts in the Disabled circles as well.

Then I imagine he has some sympathy with the man for having his private conversation recorded secretly.

Also that some levels of disability are too severe to warrant an employer paying a minimum wage, although the Government ought to step in to subsidise the wage, as they do for thousands of able bodied on wage top up benefits.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:29 am

I work with brain damaged children. Recently with ' The Sunshine Buses' we took a group of them to Ikea and collected them at the end of the day because Ikea gave them work experience for the day. They were all so excited and had so much fun. Yet, It was also beneficial In that they obtained vital experience In dealing with the general public. Everyone of them was paid the going rate.

Well done Ikea !!!

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:36 am

I wouldn't put it as far as being 'secretly recorded. He may not have been aware that what he was saying was being recorded, but it was said at the Conservative Party Conference, where it's not exactly rocket science to realise that there are microphones all over the place. The fact remains, though, that he made these odious remarks, and this is the Minister for Welfare Reform, yet because he has been made to apologise Cameron refuses to sack him from the Cabinet.

Labour have been accused of putting on a 'faux' protest. If it had been a Labour MP who had made such comments I would have been equally outraged. This is not a Party Political thing, apart from Clegg, as Cameron's puppet will stand by him & support him throughout. However, when it comes to the vote of No-Confidence, I imagine there will be quite a few Tory MPs who will rebel as well.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:49 am

They need to decide exactly what they think of disabled people.

Andrew Selous: 'Disabled are grateful so work harder,' says Tory minister - UK Politics - UK - The Independent

'Disabled are grateful so work harder,' says Tory minister

Interestingly enough that last bastion of journalistic virtue is in agreement with the BNP

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-7a ... EP6EVc1DXM

One thing I find annoying is this tendency to "apologise unreservedly" as if that makes everything all right.

AA grumpy · Post by **AA grumpy** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:34 am

Oscar Namechange;1466444 wrote: So despite Andy asking we stick to the topic and despite Lars posting other links, you continue down this route.

You clearly have no understanding of what the BNP website Is about or any other political Party for that matter. The BNP want their articles copied and shared. They don't care If the author Is credited or not. They want people talking about their articles, that's how Interest develops. The last thing they worry about Is their articles being copied. In fact, they'd be delighted should Andy post the article on a public forum because they want mainstream discredited. They encourage everyone to share all the time.

The article has not been taken down. It will have been moved to sub headings. The site Is updated with new stories every day. If someone comments on an old article, It puts that old article back to the top of the page and the newest article moves down the page where people may not see It. That's how It works. I was somewhat embarrased only yesterday afternoon to find myself as a new article and on the top page... thankfully, I have moved down the site Into a sub heading.

Now, can we do as Andy asked and get back to topic ?

many thanks for the support oscar my fellow far right collegue lets keep spreading the gospel and make the sheep see

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:40 am

AA grumpy;1466467 wrote: many thanks for the support oscar my fellow far right collegue lets keep spreading the gospel and make the sheep see

Bah-ah.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:08 pm

AA grumpy;1466467 wrote: many thanks for the support oscar my fellow far right collegue lets keep spreading the gospel and make the sheep see

And thank you AA grumpy for strengthening my resolve that the right wing is more dangerous than the problems they think they can solve.......by far.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:36 pm

Oh the Irony.

Andy copies and pastes a story that Is actually national headlines and the only reason the BNP ever even got brought Into It was demands to the BNP website.

Back to topic... a sincere and unreserved apology from him Is not enough. Anyone will make a sincere apology If they think It will save their arsse but It still remains that we all now know what exactly he thinks of the disabled.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:02 pm

Bruv;1466471 wrote: And thank you AA grumpy for strengthening my resolve that the right wing is more dangerous than the problems they think they can solve.......by far.

Actually I think UKIP are more of a threat than the openly right wing BNP, they have made xenophobia acceptable and anyone looking at the rest of their policies - well I just can't believe anyone takes them seriously.

Enrol unemployed welfare claimants onto community schemes or retraining workfare programmes.

Just like the Tories anyone unemployed must be a shiftless layabout.

Scrap HS2, all green taxes and wind turbine subsidies.

• Develop shale gas to reduce energy bills and free us from dependence on foreign oil and gas - place the tax revenues into a British Sovereign Wealth Fund.

Fu=k the environment who cares what long term damage is done.

The BNP seem almost sane and reasoned in comparison.

Foreign companies own our Railways | National News | British National Party

The Rail, Maritime and Transport union (RMT) report shows that 20 of the country's 27 private rail contracts were now owned by foreign state-owned or backed railways, mainly from France, Germany and Holland.

The union said that following last week's decision to award the Scotrail franchise to Dutch state-owned firm Abellio, overseas firms now "dominated" the UK's railways.

Just for the record the scottish giovernment is bound by the terms of the franchise agreement which means they cannot favourite a local comopany just because it is local nor subsidise any such bid even if the winning bidder is a state owned comopany, sodding tories again. An independent scotland is likely to be socialist in it's policies renationalising the railways and the power generation is very much on the cards.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:11 pm

Shhhhhh Don't tell Mr Farage...

A UKIP national meeting was held In London Thursday night where Mr Farage was speaking... The BNP Infiltrated that meeting. One of my own election team was In there as a guest of a local UKIP member, who by the way stays In touch as an Ex BNP member. You know what with Farage stating he has no BNP In his Party.... yeah right !!!.. Dear dear dear Nigel, at least we have the brains to check membership cards on the door and any guest must be known by the regional Organiser.

Anyway, by all accounts, Mr Farage's ego that night was startling and hundreds of people applauding every word he said. The overall opinion that as gmc said, he's more dangerous than any far right Party.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:11 pm

I remember a eureka moment during an argument many years ago when a work mate was condemning the unions and so the left for wrecking the country.

I told him then I always had a greater fear of the so called establishment staunch right wing, not necessarily the government but the old school tie brigade that actually run the world, my concern has deepened over the years.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:32 pm

AA grumpy;1466434 wrote: sorry no link available just checked and the story has been taken down from the bnp website

apart from that the whole piece is here so no link required

That the whole piece is here is, potentially, a breach of copyright in itself.

FG rules, as you have been told several times in the past, require that all non-original work be attributed to its source and only a brief quote included.

If you cannot abide by the rules that you have been given then you will be given time out. If you continue to refuse to abide by the rules then you will be banned.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:45 pm

Oscar Namechange;1466444 wrote: So despite Andy asking we stick to the topic and despite Lars posting other links, you continue down this route.

You clearly have no understanding of what the BNP website Is about or any other political Party for that matter. The BNP want their articles copied and shared. They don't care If the author Is credited or not. They want people talking about their articles, that's how Interest develops. The last thing they worry about Is their articles being copied. In fact, they'd be delighted should Andy post the article on a public forum because they want mainstream discredited. They encourage everyone to share all the time.

The article has not been taken down. It will have been moved to sub headings. The site Is updated with new stories every day. If someone comments on an old article, It puts that old article back to the top of the page and the newest article moves down the page where people may not see It. That's how It works. I was somewhat embarrased only yesterday afternoon to find myself as a new article and on the top page... thankfully, I have moved down the site Into a sub heading.

Now, can we do as Andy asked and get back to topic ?

You, clearly, have no understanding of what the Garden is about.

It has been made abundantly clear on many occasions that full articles should not be cut and pasted onto the site in full and that all articles copied from other sites must be attributed - this is to protect the Garden from breach of copyright claims and is non-negotiable and does not depend on your opinion as to whether to originator is happy to have it copied.

Whilst the rules are being blatantly ignored then, no, we cannot go back to discussing the topic - we will either sort out the observance of the rules or we will start removing the offending articles from the site completely.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:57 pm

Bryn Mawr;1466494 wrote: You, clearly, have no understanding of what the Garden is about.

It has been made abundantly clear on many occasions that full articles should not be cut and pasted onto the site in full and that all articles copied from other sites must be attributed - this is to protect the Garden from breach of copyright claims and is non-negotiable and does not depend on your opinion as to whether to originator is happy to have it copied.

Whilst the rules are being blatantly ignored then, no, we cannot go back to discussing the topic - we will either sort out the observance of the rules or we will start removing the offending articles from the site completely.

Yes, I do remember those rules Bryn. When I first read Andy's OP, I knew exactly where It had come from and would have been more than happy to archive the article from the website and post It to protect Forum Garden. The second post by Betty Boop stated that Oscar was not to do that.... why I don't know. My adding the link would have been In Andy's and FG's best interests and this could have been resolved way back. If I am ordered by a Moderator not to link the site for Andy, then I pointed out that the Party would not have a problem In this Instance as I know they wouldn't.

I fully understand the rules here and I could have resolved this Instantly by getting the link for Andy.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:18 pm

Oscar Namechange;1466495 wrote: Yes, I do remember those rules Bryn. When I first read Andy's OP, I knew exactly where It had come from and would have been more than happy to archive the article from the website and post It to protect Forum Garden. The second post by Betty Boop stated that Oscar was not to do that.... why I don't know. My adding the link would have been In Andy's and FG's best interests and this could have been resolved way back. If I am ordered by a Moderator not to link the site for Andy, then I pointed out that the Party would not have a problem In this Instance as I know they wouldn't.

I fully understand the rules here and I could have resolved this Instantly by getting the link for Andy.

No, you could have stuck a plaster over the problem. The problem is Andy's refusal to abide by the rules - he needs to take the action, not you on his behalf.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:19 pm

Andy needs to post the links, no one else. Recently you have been finding the links for him and I don't see why you, I, or anyone else should be doing it for him. The link needs to be in the relevant post. It's just ironic that this time round the link happened to be from the BNP website :rolleyes:

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:24 pm

Protecting the site Is the priority. Andy does not do It maliciously or for any other reason. He just forgets. I have done that In the past when writing a long post, you do sometimes forget when you get to the end of It.

Why the big debate over another member helping him out ? The main concern Is to protect the site first.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:28 pm

AA grumpy;1466467 wrote: many thanks for the support oscar my fellow far right collegue lets keep spreading the gospel and make the sheep see

Ironic. Sheep & "sheeple" is what the left wing calls the right wing.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:29 pm

Oscar Namechange;1466499 wrote: Protecting the site Is the priority. Andy does not do It maliciously or for any other reason. He just forgets. I have done that In the past when writing a long post, you do sometimes forget when you get to the end of It.

Why the big debate over another member helping him out ? The main concern Is to protect the site first.

If Andy finds it impossible to abide by the rules then he will be banned, the same as anyone else in the same situation would be - for him to require a nursemaid is not a solution.

As you say, protecting the site is the priority - each member is responsible for their own actions and I cannot rely on a third party coming along and correcting the omissions.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:33 pm

I think of it as Forum Garden being our host. As such, each of us should take responsibility for our posts and ensure that we don't violate any of the terms and conditions.

I'm sure a lot of work by administrators and moderators goes into keeping this forum running smoothly, most of which is behind the scenes and therefore unseen. Our side of the contract is to minimise the amount of additional work we create for the "staff" by adhering to the rules.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:10 pm

AnneBoleyn;1466501 wrote: Ironic. Sheep & "sheeple" is what the left wing calls the right wing.

That is the case with pretty much anyone with an agenda, these days. Anybody who is not in agreement with them are sheep.

AA grumpy · Post by **AA grumpy** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:18 pm

my apologies BM will do the next post with a link or short self written column

normally i would put a link in but the post had been moved and i thought taken down

so i couldnt put the link in

i take it you are not a BNP fan or of the AA grumpy column LOL!!

(theres nothing wrong with the column grumps ED)

AAG

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:00 am

LarsMac;1466509 wrote: That is the case with pretty much anyone with an agenda, these days. Anybody who is not in agreement with them are sheep.

At least the left & right can agree about something.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:32 am

AnneBoleyn;1466519 wrote: At least the left & right can agree about something.

There is that.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:23 am

AA grumpy;1466513 wrote: my apologies BM will do the next post with a link or short self written column

normally i would put a link in but the post had been moved and i thought taken down

so i couldnt put the link in

i take it you are not a BNP fan or of the AA grumpy column LOL!!

(theres nothing wrong with the column grumps ED)

AAG

If my politics influenced the way the site was moderated then there would be several more ex members than there are - and I would be a failure as a moderator