The Daily Mail?
It seems to be becoming more common within every circle I move in that people are quoting some really unbelievable things.
A couple of weeks ago a guy, who I thought was better educated than this, told me that the Qua-ran tells its followers to kill all Westerners. When I disagreed stating that he had been given an out of context quote he was adamant he was right. I ended up having to say that I wasn't prepared to believe his statement but there was no way I was going to argue the toss with him. He was very confident he had been told by someone who 'knows'!
Then just last night, a group of people started to run down immigrants whilst sat in a cafe owned by a Polish couple with their two children. Other cafe owners in the area need to come to this cafe to have a lesson in hospitality, wonderful food, cakes, and real coffee. This place in the space of a year has a phenomenal reputation, the owners are hard working and nothing is too much trouble they had even opened up on an evening to allow an English friend to have her party there. I had to leave the table when I heard people spewing about 'bloody immigrants all coming over here to claim benefits, none of them know about hard work just think England was an easy place to come to sponge off the state'. I was cringing from the inside out as were the people that had invited them. We were so embarrassed for the owners who were sat there listening to all this!
I'm beginning to get a sense that if I don't agree with these friends 'opinions' I'm then ostracised. I'll give it a couple more goes of mixing with the first group and if the tensions continue then I'll walk away, it's all rather disappointing given that this group are supposed to be 'spiritual' people.
Does the whole world read...
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Betty Boop
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Does the whole world read...
I sometimes wonder if describing oneself as spiritual is merely a way of saying that ones beliefs are just that little bit more wholesome and "better" than those of others. When I read the works of those who appear to me to be spiritual but who makes no such claims themselves, I can see a huge difference. I can see humility, openness, wisdom and a deep compassion. That doesn't seem to fit with the spirituality that many of us claim.
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
Does the whole world read...
I hate the Daily Mail with passion, along with the Express. Very little journalistic integrity, just sensationalist headlines that pander, for the most part, to the white, Anglo Saxon * ( what ever that means ) middle class, middle England, blue rinse bigots. Its an often ugly experience, reading the DM
* I am often greeted with the phrase "Anglo Saxon" during these types of conversations, to apparently demonstrate how truly "English" they are.
* I am often greeted with the phrase "Anglo Saxon" during these types of conversations, to apparently demonstrate how truly "English" they are.
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Does the whole world read...
It's one of the age old debates within religion and specifically the two main monotheistic religions. Do you read the sacred texts yourself and decide finding your own way to god or do you have it interpreted for you by a priest. It's the origin of the dispute between shia and sunni, cathiolic an protestant.
Wahibism, which is the originator of the current extremist muslim sects teaches loyalty to an imam whose word is the word of god and disputing it is heresy think ayatollah khomeni in iran although he seems quite moderate nowadays.
Jihad is struggle against unbelievers it's used rather a lot in the koran and is open to interpretation, on one level it means war against unbelievers and justifies killing them, like I said it's a question of interpretation.
Not so long ago christians were happily doing the same thing to other christians as well as anyone else they wanted an excuse i kill. Even now you don't have to look very hard to find christians willing to kill in the name of their religion.
Wahibism, which is the originator of the current extremist muslim sects teaches loyalty to an imam whose word is the word of god and disputing it is heresy think ayatollah khomeni in iran although he seems quite moderate nowadays.
Jihad is struggle against unbelievers it's used rather a lot in the koran and is open to interpretation, on one level it means war against unbelievers and justifies killing them, like I said it's a question of interpretation.
Not so long ago christians were happily doing the same thing to other christians as well as anyone else they wanted an excuse i kill. Even now you don't have to look very hard to find christians willing to kill in the name of their religion.
Does the whole world read...
The Daily Mail supported Hitler's Blackshirts during WW2, and very little has changed with their political affiliations ever since.
As to their credibility - I place them on a par with the Sunday Sport, or The Beano.
As to their credibility - I place them on a par with the Sunday Sport, or The Beano.
Does the whole world read...
Snowfire;1471387 wrote: I hate the Daily Mail with passion, along with the Express. Very little journalistic integrity, just sensationalist headlines that pander, for the most part, to the white, Anglo Saxon * ( what ever that means ) middle class, middle England, blue rinse bigots. Its an often ugly experience, reading the DM
* I am often greeted with the phrase "Anglo Saxon" during these types of conversations, to apparently demonstrate how truly "English" they are.
Yeah I mean speaking as someone with celt/viking ancestry with maybe a bit if pict being anglo saxon is not all that it's cracked up to be.
If you want to remind them the native britons were not anglo saxon - they invaded from germany. Most of the landed gentry are descended from norman invaders who in turn conquesred the anglo saxons. Most of the thickos don't know that.
for the most part, to the white, Anglo Saxon * ( what ever that means ) middle class, middle England, blue rinse bigots.
I didn't know oscar had a blue rinse:-2
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
* I am often greeted with the phrase "Anglo Saxon" during these types of conversations, to apparently demonstrate how truly "English" they are.
Yeah I mean speaking as someone with celt/viking ancestry with maybe a bit if pict being anglo saxon is not all that it's cracked up to be.
If you want to remind them the native britons were not anglo saxon - they invaded from germany. Most of the landed gentry are descended from norman invaders who in turn conquesred the anglo saxons. Most of the thickos don't know that.
for the most part, to the white, Anglo Saxon * ( what ever that means ) middle class, middle England, blue rinse bigots.
I didn't know oscar had a blue rinse:-2
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
Does the whole world read...
gmc;1471401 wrote: Yeah I mean speaking as someone with celt/viking ancestry with maybe a bit if pict being anglo saxon is not all that it's cracked up to be.
If you want to remind them the native britons were not anglo saxon - they invaded from germany. Most of the landed gentry are descended from norman invaders who in turn conquesred the anglo saxons. Most of the thickos don't know that.
I didn't know oscar had a blue rinse:-2
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
Kent people were more likely to be Jutes than Anglo Saxons anyway. None of us know for sure. Anglo Saxon is a blanket term used by Nationalists and usually preceded by "white"
If you want to remind them the native britons were not anglo saxon - they invaded from germany. Most of the landed gentry are descended from norman invaders who in turn conquesred the anglo saxons. Most of the thickos don't know that.
I didn't know oscar had a blue rinse:-2
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
Kent people were more likely to be Jutes than Anglo Saxons anyway. None of us know for sure. Anglo Saxon is a blanket term used by Nationalists and usually preceded by "white"
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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Oscar Namechange
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Does the whole world read...
The problem with understanding the Holy Qu'ran Is the amount of times It's been amended and added to by Imam's over the centuries.
Unless you read the entire original text from Mohammed, It's extremely difficult to judge what has been added at a later date.
Example... In the original, Mohammed states ' Be kind to all animals' yet at a later date, this Is to exclude swine.
The problem Is differentiating between radical Jihad and original Islam and very often, the violent passages have been written at a later date to suit the Jihad. Imam's can quite literally make It up as they go along. I've recently seen some Imam In Saudi Arabia state that women who swim In the ocean are guilty of adultry.
The verse of the Holy Quran is often mentioned to malign Islam. The verse does not say infidels it says idolaters. (9:5) And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
This verse, chapter 9 verse 5, is often used as evidence that Islam allows killing of non-Muslims, but what is not recognized is the context and history behind these verses. The history of this verse is that when Prophet Muhammadsa began preaching the unity of God he was persecuted for 13 years, much as Prophets Abraham and Jesus were. Since Muslims who are being persecuted are encouraged to leave for safer areas, rather than create disorder, Muhammadsa and his followers migrated to Medina. After they left, the Meccans attacked them in Medina on and off for a period of nine years until Chapter 9 was revealed.
https://www.alislam.org/egazette/update ... be-killed/
Unless you read the entire original text from Mohammed, It's extremely difficult to judge what has been added at a later date.
Example... In the original, Mohammed states ' Be kind to all animals' yet at a later date, this Is to exclude swine.
The problem Is differentiating between radical Jihad and original Islam and very often, the violent passages have been written at a later date to suit the Jihad. Imam's can quite literally make It up as they go along. I've recently seen some Imam In Saudi Arabia state that women who swim In the ocean are guilty of adultry.
The verse of the Holy Quran is often mentioned to malign Islam. The verse does not say infidels it says idolaters. (9:5) And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
This verse, chapter 9 verse 5, is often used as evidence that Islam allows killing of non-Muslims, but what is not recognized is the context and history behind these verses. The history of this verse is that when Prophet Muhammadsa began preaching the unity of God he was persecuted for 13 years, much as Prophets Abraham and Jesus were. Since Muslims who are being persecuted are encouraged to leave for safer areas, rather than create disorder, Muhammadsa and his followers migrated to Medina. After they left, the Meccans attacked them in Medina on and off for a period of nine years until Chapter 9 was revealed.
https://www.alislam.org/egazette/update ... be-killed/
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Does the whole world read...
Oscar Namechange;1471414 wrote: The problem with understanding the Holy Qu'ran Is the amount of times It's been amended and added to by Imam's over the centuries.
Unless you read the entire original text from Mohammed, It's extremely difficult to judge what has been added at a later date.
Example... In the original, Mohammed states ' Be kind to all animals' yet at a later date, this Is to exclude swine.
The problem Is differentiating between radical Jihad and original Islam and very often, the violent passages have been written at a later date to suit the Jihad. Imam's can quite literally make It up as they go along. I've recently seen some Imam In Saudi Arabia state that women who swim In the ocean are guilty of adultry.
The verse of the Holy Quran is often mentioned to malign Islam. The verse does not say infidels it says idolaters. (9:5) And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
This verse, chapter 9 verse 5, is often used as evidence that Islam allows killing of non-Muslims, but what is not recognized is the context and history behind these verses. The history of this verse is that when Prophet Muhammadsa began preaching the unity of God he was persecuted for 13 years, much as Prophets Abraham and Jesus were. Since Muslims who are being persecuted are encouraged to leave for safer areas, rather than create disorder, Muhammadsa and his followers migrated to Medina. After they left, the Meccans attacked them in Medina on and off for a period of nine years until Chapter 9 was revealed.
https://www.alislam.org/egazette/update ... be-killed/
You been reading the Sunday Mail.........................haven't you ?
Unless you read the entire original text from Mohammed, It's extremely difficult to judge what has been added at a later date.
Example... In the original, Mohammed states ' Be kind to all animals' yet at a later date, this Is to exclude swine.
The problem Is differentiating between radical Jihad and original Islam and very often, the violent passages have been written at a later date to suit the Jihad. Imam's can quite literally make It up as they go along. I've recently seen some Imam In Saudi Arabia state that women who swim In the ocean are guilty of adultry.
The verse of the Holy Quran is often mentioned to malign Islam. The verse does not say infidels it says idolaters. (9:5) And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free. Surely, Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.
This verse, chapter 9 verse 5, is often used as evidence that Islam allows killing of non-Muslims, but what is not recognized is the context and history behind these verses. The history of this verse is that when Prophet Muhammadsa began preaching the unity of God he was persecuted for 13 years, much as Prophets Abraham and Jesus were. Since Muslims who are being persecuted are encouraged to leave for safer areas, rather than create disorder, Muhammadsa and his followers migrated to Medina. After they left, the Meccans attacked them in Medina on and off for a period of nine years until Chapter 9 was revealed.
https://www.alislam.org/egazette/update ... be-killed/
You been reading the Sunday Mail.........................haven't you ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
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Does the whole world read...
Bruv;1471422 wrote: You been reading the Sunday Mail.........................haven't you ? Don't attempt to belittle me little man. I've probably done more research Into the Interpretations of the Holy Qu'ran than you will In your entire life.
Typical smart arsse reply from someone who can't answer a post with anything Intelligent enough to contribute to the subject.
Typical smart arsse reply from someone who can't answer a post with anything Intelligent enough to contribute to the subject.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Does the whole world read...
Oscar Namechange;1471423 wrote: Don't attempt to belittle me little man. I've probably done more research Into the Interpretations of the Holy Qu'ran than you will In your entire life.
Typical smart arsse reply from someone who can't answer a post with anything Intelligent enough to contribute to the subject.
Why are you talking about the Quran (with that cute accent) when the subject of the thread is the Daily Mail ?
Just asking.
Typical smart arsse reply from someone who can't answer a post with anything Intelligent enough to contribute to the subject.
Why are you talking about the Quran (with that cute accent) when the subject of the thread is the Daily Mail ?
Just asking.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Does the whole world read...
Oscar Namechange;1471423 wrote: Don't attempt to belittle me little man. I've probably done more research Into the Interpretations of the Holy Qu'ran than you will In your entire life.
Typical smart arsse reply from someone who can't answer a post with anything Intelligent enough to contribute to the subject.
Go for it blue rinse woman. Your words shall strike terror in the hearts of those who dare to mock. Must admit though the image doesn't quite fit.
posted by snowfire
Kent people were more likely to be Jutes than Anglo Saxons anyway. None of us know for sure. Anglo Saxon is a blanket term used by Nationalists and usually preceded by "white"
Not in scotland it's not.
Typical smart arsse reply from someone who can't answer a post with anything Intelligent enough to contribute to the subject.
Go for it blue rinse woman. Your words shall strike terror in the hearts of those who dare to mock. Must admit though the image doesn't quite fit.
posted by snowfire
Kent people were more likely to be Jutes than Anglo Saxons anyway. None of us know for sure. Anglo Saxon is a blanket term used by Nationalists and usually preceded by "white"
Not in scotland it's not.
Does the whole world read...
Daily Mail often makes FoxNews seem a smart choice.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
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Oscar Namechange
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Does the whole world read...
gmc;1471434 wrote: Go for it blue rinse woman. .
Suspensoir
Suspensoir
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Does the whole world read...
gmc;1471434 wrote:
Not in scotland it's not. No, you lot just dress up and run about like William Wallace. My point was, Nationalists will always find ways of telling us how wonderfully patriotic and English/Scottish/Mercan they are and how important their decendancy* is, whether its known or just perceived.
* Is that even a proper word ??
Not in scotland it's not. No, you lot just dress up and run about like William Wallace. My point was, Nationalists will always find ways of telling us how wonderfully patriotic and English/Scottish/Mercan they are and how important their decendancy* is, whether its known or just perceived.
* Is that even a proper word ??
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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Oscar Namechange
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Does the whole world read...
Bruv;1471428 wrote: Why are you talking about the Quran (with that cute accent) when the subject of the thread is the Daily Mail ?
Just asking.
In order to prove beyond doubt that the Daily Mail Is misquoting the Holy Qu'ran, one must read an entire reliably translated original 7th century text. I doubt anyone here has ever done that so how can anyone claim they don't believe the verses quoted? Even then, you would have to compare the original script to amendments over the last few centuries.
Anyone can google original verses of the book which do actually speak of slaying all Idolaters. Idolaters being those who worship another Idol such as Christ.
One thing I do know... people who can quote the Qua'ran are usually more Informed that those who can't. If you don't believe something, then It's up to you to research the source to verify It.
This Is a perfect example of how Islam Is misinterpreted by It's own followers. That's the problem... making It up as they go along to suit.
Saudi Arabia issues fatwa - forbidding the building of SNOWMEN - Mirror Online
Just asking.
In order to prove beyond doubt that the Daily Mail Is misquoting the Holy Qu'ran, one must read an entire reliably translated original 7th century text. I doubt anyone here has ever done that so how can anyone claim they don't believe the verses quoted? Even then, you would have to compare the original script to amendments over the last few centuries.
Anyone can google original verses of the book which do actually speak of slaying all Idolaters. Idolaters being those who worship another Idol such as Christ.
One thing I do know... people who can quote the Qua'ran are usually more Informed that those who can't. If you don't believe something, then It's up to you to research the source to verify It.
This Is a perfect example of how Islam Is misinterpreted by It's own followers. That's the problem... making It up as they go along to suit.
Saudi Arabia issues fatwa - forbidding the building of SNOWMEN - Mirror Online
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Does the whole world read...
Oscar Namechange;1471498 wrote: In order to prove beyond doubt that the Daily Mail Is misquoting the Holy Qu'ran, one must read an entire reliably translated original 7th century text. I doubt anyone here has ever done that so how can anyone claim they don't believe the verses quoted? Even then, you would have to compare the original script to amendments over the last few centuries.
Anyone can google original verses of the book which do actually speak of slaying all Idolaters. Idolaters being those who worship another Idol such as Christ.
One thing I do know... people who can quote the Qua'ran are usually more Informed that those who can't. If you don't believe something, then It's up to you to research the source to verify It.
This Is a perfect example of how Islam Is misinterpreted by It's own followers. That's the problem... making It up as they go along to suit.
Saudi Arabia issues fatwa - forbidding the building of SNOWMEN - Mirror Online
Is it safe to reply now ?
The Daily Mail were not quoting or misquoting anything, the thread's use of the Daily Mail was....I think......comical, aligning it's mentality with easily lead or bigoted people.
The thread opening post.....paraphrased.........asks if everybody is now tainted with the same gullibility and bias as Mail readers, then relates 2 stories, one happens to be about the Quran and the other about migrants, typical Mail stories, with both arguing in a recognisable Mail style.
I could be wrong........I often am.
Anyone can google original verses of the book which do actually speak of slaying all Idolaters. Idolaters being those who worship another Idol such as Christ.
One thing I do know... people who can quote the Qua'ran are usually more Informed that those who can't. If you don't believe something, then It's up to you to research the source to verify It.
This Is a perfect example of how Islam Is misinterpreted by It's own followers. That's the problem... making It up as they go along to suit.
Saudi Arabia issues fatwa - forbidding the building of SNOWMEN - Mirror Online
Is it safe to reply now ?
The Daily Mail were not quoting or misquoting anything, the thread's use of the Daily Mail was....I think......comical, aligning it's mentality with easily lead or bigoted people.
The thread opening post.....paraphrased.........asks if everybody is now tainted with the same gullibility and bias as Mail readers, then relates 2 stories, one happens to be about the Quran and the other about migrants, typical Mail stories, with both arguing in a recognisable Mail style.
I could be wrong........I often am.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
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- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Does the whole world read...
Bruv;1471504 wrote: Is it safe to reply now ?
The Daily Mail were not quoting or misquoting anything, the thread's use of the Daily Mail was....I think......comical, aligning it's mentality with easily lead or bigoted people.
The thread opening post.....paraphrased.........asks if everybody is now tainted with the same gullibility and bias as Mail readers, then relates 2 stories, one happens to be about the Quran and the other about migrants, typical Mail stories, with both arguing in a recognisable Mail style.
I could be wrong........I often am.
Readership
List of newspapers in the United Kingdom by circulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now go and look up the amount of times The Sun has been sued.
The gullibility Invariably lies with The Sun readers.
The Daily Mail were not quoting or misquoting anything, the thread's use of the Daily Mail was....I think......comical, aligning it's mentality with easily lead or bigoted people.
The thread opening post.....paraphrased.........asks if everybody is now tainted with the same gullibility and bias as Mail readers, then relates 2 stories, one happens to be about the Quran and the other about migrants, typical Mail stories, with both arguing in a recognisable Mail style.
I could be wrong........I often am.
Readership
List of newspapers in the United Kingdom by circulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now go and look up the amount of times The Sun has been sued.
The gullibility Invariably lies with The Sun readers.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Does the whole world read...
Oscar Namechange;1471498 wrote: Saudi Arabia issues fatwa - forbidding the building of SNOWMEN - Mirror Online
Ahh, but they were probably Snowhammeds.
Also, despite what he may say about making any image being anti Islam, it's not difficult to find articles on Islamic art, regarding statues etc.
Just one of them:
Ahh, but they were probably Snowhammeds.
Also, despite what he may say about making any image being anti Islam, it's not difficult to find articles on Islamic art, regarding statues etc.
Just one of them:
Does the whole world read...
Oscar Namechange;1471505 wrote: Readership
List of newspapers in the United Kingdom by circulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now go and look up the amount of times The Sun has been sued.
The gullibility Invariably lies with The Sun readers.
Fail to see your logic, I believe the Irish have a high proportion of academics, writers, doctors, learned men and women, but are popularly the butt of many a good joke.
The Irish are short hand for simple souls, the Mail is short hand for bigotry, bigotry is not illegal.
List of newspapers in the United Kingdom by circulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Now go and look up the amount of times The Sun has been sued.
The gullibility Invariably lies with The Sun readers.
Fail to see your logic, I believe the Irish have a high proportion of academics, writers, doctors, learned men and women, but are popularly the butt of many a good joke.
The Irish are short hand for simple souls, the Mail is short hand for bigotry, bigotry is not illegal.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
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- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Does the whole world read...
Bruv;1471530 wrote: Fail to see your logic, I believe the Irish have a high proportion of academics, writers, doctors, learned men and women, but are popularly the butt of many a good joke.
The Irish are short hand for simple souls, the Mail is short hand for bigotry, bigotry is not illegal.
What ?
The Irish are short hand for simple souls, the Mail is short hand for bigotry, bigotry is not illegal.
What ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Does the whole world read...
Oscar Namechange;1471531 wrote: What ?
You have to read the posts in sequence as if it were a conversation, otherwise you might get easily confused, and have joined up thinking.
Try from the start and get back to us.
You have to read the posts in sequence as if it were a conversation, otherwise you might get easily confused, and have joined up thinking.
Try from the start and get back to us.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Does the whole world read...
Bruv;1471538 wrote: You have to read the posts in sequence as if it were a conversation, otherwise you might get easily confused, and have joined up thinking.
Try from the start and get back to us.
I miss the old IRC Chat Rooms.
Try from the start and get back to us.
I miss the old IRC Chat Rooms.
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Oscar Namechange
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- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Does the whole world read...
Bruv;1471538 wrote: You have to read the posts in sequence as if it were a conversation, otherwise you might get easily confused, and have joined up thinking.
Try from the start and get back to us.
And the Irish racist slur ?
Try from the start and get back to us.
And the Irish racist slur ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Does the whole world read...
Oscar Namechange;1471541 wrote: And the Irish racist slur ?
Pardon ?
Pardon ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
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Does the whole world read...
Bruv;1471554 wrote: Pardon ?
Racist
Racist
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Does the whole world read...
Oscar Namechange;1471568 wrote: Racist
Ain't you got no campaigning to do ?
Ain't you got no campaigning to do ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Does the whole world read...
Oscar Namechange;1471498 wrote: In order to prove beyond doubt that the Daily Mail Is misquoting the Holy Qu'ran, one must read an entire reliably translated original 7th century text. I doubt anyone here has ever done that so how can anyone claim they don't believe the verses quoted? Even then, you would have to compare the original script to amendments over the last few centuries.
Anyone can google original verses of the book which do actually speak of slaying all Idolaters. Idolaters being those who worship another Idol such as Christ.
One thing I do know... people who can quote the Qua'ran are usually more Informed that those who can't. If you don't believe something, then It's up to you to research the source to verify It.
This Is a perfect example of how Islam Is misinterpreted by It's own followers. That's the problem... making It up as they go along to suit.
Saudi Arabia issues fatwa - forbidding the building of SNOWMEN - Mirror Online
I certainly believe the copy I read was entirely reliable in its translation - you're making unwarranted assumptions.
Anyone can google original verses of the book which do actually speak of slaying all Idolaters. Idolaters being those who worship another Idol such as Christ.
One thing I do know... people who can quote the Qua'ran are usually more Informed that those who can't. If you don't believe something, then It's up to you to research the source to verify It.
This Is a perfect example of how Islam Is misinterpreted by It's own followers. That's the problem... making It up as they go along to suit.
Saudi Arabia issues fatwa - forbidding the building of SNOWMEN - Mirror Online
I certainly believe the copy I read was entirely reliable in its translation - you're making unwarranted assumptions.
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Oscar Namechange
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- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Does the whole world read...
Bryn Mawr;1471590 wrote: I certainly believe the copy I read was entirely reliable in its translation - you're making unwarranted assumptions.
With the greatest of respect Bryn.. How would you know It was entirely reliable In translation unless you had read the original entire text In Arabic. ?
As It happens, all my Muslim pals are deeply suspicious of translated Qu'ran Into English.
I make no unwarrented assumptions. I go entirely by what my Muslim friends and neighbours and I have discussed over many years. Those Muslims being a cross section of Iraqi, Turkish, Pakistani etc.
http://www.meforum.org/717/assessing-en ... -the-quran
With the greatest of respect Bryn.. How would you know It was entirely reliable In translation unless you had read the original entire text In Arabic. ?
As It happens, all my Muslim pals are deeply suspicious of translated Qu'ran Into English.
I make no unwarrented assumptions. I go entirely by what my Muslim friends and neighbours and I have discussed over many years. Those Muslims being a cross section of Iraqi, Turkish, Pakistani etc.
http://www.meforum.org/717/assessing-en ... -the-quran
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Does the whole world read...
Oscar Namechange;1471600 wrote: With the greatest of respect Bryn.. How would you know It was entirely reliable In translation unless you had read the original entire text In Arabic. ?
As It happens, all my Muslim pals are deeply suspicious of translated Qu'ran Into English.
I make no unwarrented assumptions. I go entirely by what my Muslim friends and neighbours and I have discussed over many years. Those Muslims being a cross section of Iraqi, Turkish, Pakistani etc.
Assessing English Translations of the Qur'an :: Middle East Quarterly
I throw that back at you, how do you know that any translation you've read is any more reliable?
I admit that I'm assuming that you don't read seventh century Arabic but given the difficulty some of my Muslim friends have had trying to learn even modern Arabic I think that's a safe bet. Any confirmation I might require I can always get from my niece who is fluent enough to have convinced an Egyptian taxi driver that she was Syrian
Muslims in general and the Imams in particular are deeply suspicious of translations of the Qu'ran - it's one of the ways that the leadership of Islam try to maintain their power in the same way as the Christian Church did at the same stage of its development by refusing to allow the Bible to be translated from the Latin.
Your unwarranted assumption was :-
so how can anyone claim they don't believe the verses quoted?
Which specifically assumes that no-one here has read the Qu'ran. Having grown up in Leicester with a lot of Muslim friends and the having lived and worked in the East End for decades I've had many opportunities to discuss the Qu'ran and the similarities and differences between the religions - in those discussions having read the Qu'ran was a prerequisite.
As It happens, all my Muslim pals are deeply suspicious of translated Qu'ran Into English.
I make no unwarrented assumptions. I go entirely by what my Muslim friends and neighbours and I have discussed over many years. Those Muslims being a cross section of Iraqi, Turkish, Pakistani etc.
Assessing English Translations of the Qur'an :: Middle East Quarterly
I throw that back at you, how do you know that any translation you've read is any more reliable?
I admit that I'm assuming that you don't read seventh century Arabic but given the difficulty some of my Muslim friends have had trying to learn even modern Arabic I think that's a safe bet. Any confirmation I might require I can always get from my niece who is fluent enough to have convinced an Egyptian taxi driver that she was Syrian
Muslims in general and the Imams in particular are deeply suspicious of translations of the Qu'ran - it's one of the ways that the leadership of Islam try to maintain their power in the same way as the Christian Church did at the same stage of its development by refusing to allow the Bible to be translated from the Latin.
Your unwarranted assumption was :-
so how can anyone claim they don't believe the verses quoted?
Which specifically assumes that no-one here has read the Qu'ran. Having grown up in Leicester with a lot of Muslim friends and the having lived and worked in the East End for decades I've had many opportunities to discuss the Qu'ran and the similarities and differences between the religions - in those discussions having read the Qu'ran was a prerequisite.
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Does the whole world read...
Bryn Mawr;1471605 wrote: I throw that back at you, how do you know that any translation you've read is any more reliable?
I admit that I'm assuming that you don't read seventh century Arabic but given the difficulty some of my Muslim friends have had trying to learn even modern Arabic I think that's a safe bet. Any confirmation I might require I can always get from my niece who is fluent enough to have convinced an Egyptian taxi driver that she was Syrian
Muslims in general and the Imams in particular are deeply suspicious of translations of the Qu'ran - it's one of the ways that the leadership of Islam try to maintain their power in the same way as the Christian Church did at the same stage of its development by refusing to allow the Bible to be translated from the Latin.
Your unwarranted assumption was :-
Which specifically assumes that no-one here has read the Qu'ran. Having grown up in Leicester with a lot of Muslim friends and the having lived and worked in the East End for decades I've had many opportunities to discuss the Qu'ran and the similarities and differences between the religions - in those discussions having read the Qu'ran was a prerequisite.
Likewise Bryn... I have spent many many years discussing this and politics with my Muslim friends In short, I have always taken my husbands best pal's advice on the Qu'ran. When looking for translation and clarification. to get a true picture without learning Arabic, source and read several translations before arriving at the assumption that only one Is true and precise. Compare several translations before deciding that one Is true.
I admit that I'm assuming that you don't read seventh century Arabic but given the difficulty some of my Muslim friends have had trying to learn even modern Arabic I think that's a safe bet. Any confirmation I might require I can always get from my niece who is fluent enough to have convinced an Egyptian taxi driver that she was Syrian
Muslims in general and the Imams in particular are deeply suspicious of translations of the Qu'ran - it's one of the ways that the leadership of Islam try to maintain their power in the same way as the Christian Church did at the same stage of its development by refusing to allow the Bible to be translated from the Latin.
Your unwarranted assumption was :-
Which specifically assumes that no-one here has read the Qu'ran. Having grown up in Leicester with a lot of Muslim friends and the having lived and worked in the East End for decades I've had many opportunities to discuss the Qu'ran and the similarities and differences between the religions - in those discussions having read the Qu'ran was a prerequisite.
Likewise Bryn... I have spent many many years discussing this and politics with my Muslim friends In short, I have always taken my husbands best pal's advice on the Qu'ran. When looking for translation and clarification. to get a true picture without learning Arabic, source and read several translations before arriving at the assumption that only one Is true and precise. Compare several translations before deciding that one Is true.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Does the whole world read...
All translations, especially those of religious text, have always been open to the interpretations of the translator. Even more so when you get translations of translations, etc.