GUNS and IDIOTS - IDIOTS and GUNS

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:24 am

Their philosophy is similar to saying, "I don't need alcohol today, I'm already drunk."

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:49 am

A very skewed sense of fear and security. I have been alive for 58+ years, I've been to other countries and through the majority of the US and I've walked through some of the worst parts of both alone at night and I have never needed any weapon, including a firearm.

The people in the video appear to believe the streets of Detroit are so dangerous that they need to walk in a group and carry guns; what that looks like to me is a gang looking for trouble patrolling their turf. Stay home or move if it's that bad in your neighborhood. Better yet, go get a job if you have nothing better to do.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:06 am

Ahso!;1475605 wrote: A very skewed sense of fear and security. I have been alive for 58+ years, I've been to other countries and through the majority of the US and I've walked through some of the worst parts of both alonis at night and I have never needed any weapon, including a firearm.

The people in the video appear to believe the streets of Detroit are so dangerous that they need to walk in a group and carry guns; what that looks like to me is a gang looking for trouble patrolling their turf. Stay home or move if it's that bad in your neighborhood. Better yet, go get a job if you have nothing better to do.

You took the words right from my mouth. “Looking for trouble. The head idiot says “This is the safest place in town right now, and you know it. He's referring to his arsenal, of course. Yeah well, just wait there long enough for the gang bangers to get their guns from the garage and come back for a clean “drive by. The home-owner was right, when seeing someone with guns it's best “To go in the opposite direction. These idiots are easy targets and are just begging to find themselves in someone's cross-hairs. Too much TV and Joan Wayne films.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:14 am

If black on black crime is the issue why are white people carrying guns through black neighborhoods?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:18 am

High Threshold;1475606 wrote: You took the words right from my mouth. “Looking for trouble. The head idiot says “This is the safest place in town right now, and you know it. He's referring to his arsenal, of course. Yeah well, just wait there long enough for the gang bangers to get their guns from the garage and come back for a clean “drive by. The home-owner was right, when seeing someone with guns it's best “To go in the opposite direction. These idiots are easy targets and are just begging to find themselves in someone's cross-hairs. Too much TV and Joan Wayne films.If I were the guy talking to the gun-guy I would have pointed all around me and said that there's no crime happening anywhere I can see right now.

What the gun-guy actually meant by saying where he was standing is the safest place at the moment is that it's safe to stand in that spot with an attitude at that time because there were known guns at hand and other crazy people like him standing with him.

Very screwy logic indeed.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:42 am

Ahso!;1475608 wrote: If I were the guy talking to the gun-guy I would have pointed all around me and said that there's no crime happening anywhere I can see right now.

LOL. He was boasting as if he's the protector in any given situation, against lone gunmen, robbers, and mass murder spree-gorillas. He even said that when he's afoot the community doesn't need the police! But let's see him come back after dark without his goons 360°. Then we'll see what's what.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:59 am

The philosophy sounds very similar to that of an occupied country, such as Ukraine & the Russians. The Russians might claim that the population are safe because they are being protected by Russian Tanks. Same scenario.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:13 am

Sad really, Americans seem to live in fear all the time.

I'd have thought something like that would be more of an issue to anger people. In the UK the water infrastructure had NEVER been I private hands until Thatcher gave it all away when the privatised companies tried cutting people off the resultant outrage had them back off rather quickly they can't cut off supply to a domestic residence. I can't believe people tolerate this kind of thing.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:02 am

gmc;1475621 wrote: Sad really, Americans seem to live in fear all the time.

I'd have thought something like that would be more of an issue to anger people. In the UK the water infrastructure had NEVER been I private hands until Thatcher gave it all away when the privatised companies tried cutting people off the resultant outrage had them back off rather quickly they can't cut off supply to a domestic residence. I can't believe people tolerate this kind of thing.

Like a third world country.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:32 am

gmc;1475621 wrote: Sad really, Americans seem to live in fear all the time.

I'd have thought something like that would be more of an issue to anger people. In the UK the water infrastructure had NEVER been I private hands until Thatcher gave it all away when the privatised companies tried cutting people off the resultant outrage had them back off rather quickly they can't cut off supply to a domestic residence. I can't believe people tolerate this kind of thing.

Astounding! Corruption destroyed the Soviet Union ¦ the U.S. is next.

“You can't succeed in life if you can't wash your ass.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:38 am

Bruv;1475627 wrote: Like a third world country.

Let's see ¦.. a Third World Country. An opulent, multi-millionaire elite and a destitute population. Yep, like a Third World Country.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:14 am

gmc;1475621 wrote: Sad really, Americans seem to live in fear all the time.

I DO NOT Live in Fear, & in my acquaintance, no else does either.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:16 am

PS--I HAVE NEVER IN MY LIFE LIVED IN FEAR, not here, not Europe.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:51 am

I don't live in fear.

The only thing that ever really worries me is all the idiots out there who have driver licenses.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:15 am

LarsMac;1475638 wrote: I don't live in fear.

The only thing that ever really worries me is all the idiots out there who have driver licenses.

There are some who prefer to think we live in fear & misery to suit their own outlook on the world. They are as blind as climate change deniers, yet think of themselves as progressives. They have their own prejudices, & in this way are Bigots.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:49 am

The gun people in the video certainly appear fearful. Though there is the possibility that they are paid thugs.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:06 am

AnneBoleyn;1475634 wrote: I DO NOT Live in Fear, & in my acquaintance, no else does either.

I wasn't actually referring to you in particular it was a general comment. It's seems to be a common theme in American drama where people are worried about losing their jobs and the medical benefits it seems quite common that people are threatened with losing their jobs with no recourse. Whether that is actually the case of course I haven't the faintest idea but the poor generally have no lawyers.

I grew up on housing estate I know what it's like being scared of meeting the wrong people and getting my head kicked in But I didn't have to worry about guns just knives which are bad enough. As an adult you still come across inadequates that try an bully and intimidate but you learn it's not the yappers that you need to worry about

What are these people so afraid off that they feel the need to parade around carrying assault rifles? America isn't any more violent than any other country it's the gun culture that makes the difference and it's something that's really hard to understand.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:25 am

gmc;1475680 wrote: ..... America isn't any more violent than any other country ....
That is most certainly NOT TRUE.

gmc;1475680 wrote: .... it's the gun culture that makes the difference and it's something that's really hard to understand.
A good point. The question that we are afraid to ask is - if the same amount of guns per capita were flooded into any other country, would the level and frequency of violence quickly (or eventually) rise to that of the U.S. I say no.

If you were to compel me to own a firearm I'd banish it to the deepest, darkest recess of my cellar. What do I need one for? I don't. I (we) am so unlikely to wind up destitute or need to defend my life .... whereas a rather large percentage of Americans ....... Americans do live in fear: Fear of unemployment. Fear of losing their money. Fear of being robbed. Fear of being shot to death at the shopping mall. Fear of Al Qaida blowing them up at the green grocer's. Fear of their children being sent to the next war. Fear of the sky falling. But can we blame them?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:43 am

Generally speaking, many of the stories we tell ourselves are violent and they've made those who expose themselves to them more paranoid and fearful. Our culture is also filled with right/wrong, good/bad. We've become divided and that makes us afraid of each other.

An example of the first is the HBO show Homeland which caused a bit of an uproar when the most recent season finale was too subdued and not violent enough.

America watches too much tv and reads too many violent stories. But most of the people just don't seem to care yet those are the people who tend to bitch most.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:53 am

The Waltons - a typical All American Family.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:11 pm

Originally Posted by AnneBoleyn

"I DO NOT Live in Fear, & in my acquaintance, no else does either."

gmc;1475680 wrote: I wasn't actually referring to you in particular it was a general comment.

Of course I know you were not specifically referring to me. I'm telling you that you are generalizing & I have rarely met any real person here living in fear, & I even know lots of old ladies in so-so neighborhoods. I'm just finding it tiresome for you & some others, who have no real way of knowing, telling me how we live here, how we feel here.

You ask: "What are these people so afraid off that they feel the need to parade around carrying assault rifles?" It's not fear, it's machismo.

You say: "America isn't any more violent than any other country it's the gun culture that makes the difference......" America IS the most violent of all "civilized" nations by far. As H. Rap Brown said: "Violence is as American as Cherry Pie." Wish he said Apple, but hey, he is right. This fact, however, still leaves me unafraid. Maybe I'm just stupid.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:16 pm

AnneBoleyn;1475705 wrote: America IS the most violent of all "civilized" nations by far. As H. Rap Brown said: "Violence is as American as Cherry Pie." Wish he said Apple, but hey, he is right. This fact, however, still leaves me unafraid. Maybe I'm just stupid.

Or immune ?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:23 pm

Bruv;1475714 wrote: Or immune ?

No, not immune. Numb? No, not numb. I learned in the sixties, when my own military pointed rifles directly in my face, not 2 inches from my nose, "I can only Die Once." That leads me back to stupid. I remember I was not afraid.

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:52 pm

What the hell were your own countrymen doing pointing guns in your face ? Guns, guns, bloody guns. Love guns, eat guns, sleep with guns, dream about guns. What the hell is the matter with folk ????

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:17 pm

Y'all are making way too much out of this gun thing.

I mean, I am sure that there are things going on in your own country that you could be fretting about rather than reading about all the Yanks shooting each other.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:35 am

LarsMac;1475727 wrote: Y'all are making way too much out of this gun thing.

I mean, I am sure that there are things going on in your own country that you could be fretting about rather than reading about all the Yanks shooting each other.

What happens in the States happens over here a few years later........................apparently, we are grieving over our future prospects.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:21 am

G#Gill;1475722 wrote: What the hell were your own countrymen doing pointing guns in your face ? Guns, guns, bloody guns. Love guns, eat guns, sleep with guns, dream about guns. What the hell is the matter with folk ????

It was during the first March on Washington to protest the Vietnam War & protesters rushed in & stormed the Pentagon. Given that, the military had good reason to be there.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:55 am

LarsMac;1475727 wrote: Y'all are making way too much out of this gun thing.

I mean, I am sure that there are things going on in your own country that you could be fretting about rather than reading about all the Yanks shooting each other.

The b'stards (Moderate Party) we had in government until the last election wanted us to join NATO. Seems to me being that close to kissing Washington's filthy buttocks is reason enough for me to concern myself with the American habit of shooting first and fabricating the answers to the questions that were never even asked.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:38 pm

The problem comes when their lust for gunplay can't be sated at home & they have to resort to moving in on other countries & getting everyone else involved.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:56 pm

nish word AnneBoleyn;1475705 wrote: Originally Posted by AnneBoleyn

"I DO NOT Live in Fear, & in my acquaintance, no else does either."

Of course I know you were not specifically referring to me. I'm telling you that you are generalizing & I have rarely met any real person here living in fear, & I even know lots of old ladies in so-so neighborhoods. I'm just finding it tiresome for you & some others, who have no real way of knowing, telling me how we live here, how we feel here.

You ask: "What are these people so afraid off that they feel the need to parade around carrying assault rifles?" It's not fear, it's machismo.

You say: "America isn't any more violent than any other country it's the gun culture that makes the difference......" America IS the most violent of all "civilized" nations by far. As H. Rap Brown said: "Violence is as American as Cherry Pie." Wish he said Apple, but hey, he is right. This fact, however, still leaves me unafraid. Maybe I'm just stupid.

I know I'm generalising that's why I said it was a general comment. I have the impression a lot of americans live in fear that's why I'm curious and seeking clarification. You all came from somewhere else Americans aren't any more violent than any other nation they're the same sorts of people it's the gun culture that seems to make the difference.

Machismo? A Spanish word since The british have a long tradition of smacking the Spanish around we tend to laugh at the concept and view it as slightly effeminate posing. (look at me with my big ---)

It was during the first March on Washington to protest the Vietnam War & protesters rushed in & stormed the Pentagon. Given that, the military had good reason to be there.

I remember watching the news about the kent state massacre, there have been many occasions when the British government has used troops against their own people it's hard to imagine them doing so nowadays (leaving aside northern Ireland) Thatcher never had the nerve to bring in troops I think she would have dome if she hadn't been frightened of the consequences. Our police are unarmed primarily so they can't be used as a paramilitary tool of oppression.

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:37 pm

FourPart;1475814 wrote: The problem comes when their lust for gunplay can't be sated at home & they have to resort to moving in on other countries & getting everyone else involved.

Contrary to your belief, most of us never play with our guns.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:46 pm

LarsMac;1475826 wrote: Contrary to your belief, most of us never play with our guns.

So you don't actually shoot them? Just keep them locked up in the cupboard then, eh, admiring them through the glass now and then?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:48 am

gmc: "Machismo? A Spanish word since The british have a long tradition of smacking the Spanish around we tend to laugh at the concept and view it as slightly effeminate posing. (look at me with my big ---)"

That's exactly right & that's why I chose the word. It's what I meant to say of those who have a bromance with firearms.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:54 am

LarsMac;1475826 wrote: Contrary to your belief, most of us never play with our guns.
That's true. Until I started talking about taking concealed carry classes I had no idea how many folks I work with have already taken classes and had their permit.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:55 am

High Threshold;1475830 wrote: So you don't actually shoot them? Just keep them locked up in the cupboard then, eh, admiring them through the glass now and then?

Oh, we take them out, and practice with them, and clean them, and make sure they are working properly, but we don't consider them toys.

Same with knives. We keep the sharp and clean, but we don't play with them.

They are not toys.

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:11 am

LarsMac, can you tell me what the attraction and desire, even obsession is of owning a killing implement like a gun, or a large knife ? As most Americans seem to have the same desire ! :-3

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:34 am

G#Gill;1475840 wrote: LarsMac, can you tell me what the attraction and desire, even obsession is of owning a killing implement like a gun, or a large knife ? As most Americans seem to have the same desire ! :-3

Gill, I can only tell you that guns have always been a part of life here. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have owned a gun since I was five years old. I generally don't even give the matter a second thought. It's just the way it is. A lot of people here like me. We are not running about killing people, either.

Sure, there are idiots out there who shouldn't have guns, just like there are idiots out there who should not have cars.

G#Gill · Post by **G#Gill** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:07 am

I suppose it stems from the 'Old West' era of Billy The Kid, the Clanton Gang, the Earps, Butch Cassidy and the Wild Bunch, etc. It's a good job the Brits grew out of the habit of wearing a sword from their waists!

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:46 pm

LarsMac;1475838 wrote: ...... but we don't play with them.

They are not toys.

"Playing with them" is only a figure of speech to demonstrate dislike for the things, but you know that already.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:52 pm

G#Gill;1475849 wrote: I suppose it stems from the 'Old West' era of Billy The Kid, the Clanton Gang, the Earps, Butch Cassidy and the Wild Bunch, etc. It's a good job the Brits grew out of the habit of wearing a sword from their waists!

The disconcerting thing about it all is that Americans consider them "heroes" yet they were all scoundrels and murdering outlaws.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:22 pm

LarsMac;1475843 wrote: Gill, I can only tell you that guns have always been a part of life here. I can't speak for anyone else, but I have owned a gun since I was five years old. I generally don't even give the matter a second thought. It's just the way it is. A lot of people here like me. We are not running about killing people, either.

Sure, there are idiots out there who shouldn't have guns, just like there are idiots out there who should not have cars.
It doesn't answer the question, though, does it, which what is the attraction. We already know it is part of the culture & the general way of life, and has been since the days of the Wild West, where guns were necessary to survive from day to day to protect themselves from those hostile natives who were using their vicious assault bows & arrows, who had the nerve to try defending their home against the invading forces. However, once all these hostilities faded away into the history books, the culture of gun violence & the desire for the status symbol for the deadliest killing tool remains. The question is why.

So the guns are kept in a secure, locked cabinet. So how's that going to help defend you when someone comes to rob you.... "Excuse me a moment, Mr Robber, while I find the key to my Gun Cabinet. Won't keep you long".

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:53 pm

I really don't feel that big a need to justify anything to you. It is what it is. We have guns. We are keeping them.

Yes it would be nice if there was a way to keep idiots from getting their hands on them. But, sadly, that is probably not going to happen for a few generations.

I am not giving mine up in the hopes that the idiots will do likewise. Case closed.

A bumper sticker I saw recently comes to mind.

"If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand."

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:37 am

FourPart;1475874 wrote: It doesn't answer the question, though, does it, which what is the attraction.

I haven't thought it out very thoroughly but my guess is that there are 2 main reasons.

1). Hollywood glorification of the gun-slinger and the Mafia.

2). Any nation that brow-beats its citizens is bound to inadvertently cultivate a population of inferiority complexes. The gun makes them feel adequate.

As I have said, I haven't thought it through but I suspect that American gun owners fall into one or the other category.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:54 am

Chicken & Egg. Hollywood, as with any media, give the Public what they want & yearn for. It then furthers the actions created by the Role Models, which then increase the demand for more & more violent films.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:01 am

Funny how different Nationalities have different traits historical and cultural, many are expressed as caricatures, like the efficient German, hot bloodied Italian, stiff upper lipped English.

How does this tie in with our very own resident Swede ?

One of the key characteristics of Swedish culture is that Swedes are egalitarian in nature, humble and find boasting absolutely unacceptable. In many ways, Swedes prefer to listen to others as opposed to ensuring that their own voice is heard.

When speaking, Swedes speak softly and calmly. It is rare that you were witness a Swede demonstrating anger or strong emotion in public.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:47 am

High Threshold;1475925 wrote: I haven't thought it out very thoroughly but ...

'nuff said.

Just let your preconceptions run fancy free.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:02 am

FourPart;1475933 wrote: Chicken & Egg. Hollywood, as with any media, give the Public what they want & yearn for. It then furthers the actions created by the Role Models, which then increase the demand for more & more violent films.

Well, since you've decided to introduce “the chicken & the egg then it's only fair to say that between “Hollywood films and what the people want it seems VERY clear it was Hollywood films what came first. Unless you think that people went about their lives yearning for a Hollywood film about guns even before film-making was invented. To be even more graphic, you may as well say that the crave to shoot heroin came before the first injection/snort.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:07 am

Bruv;1475934 wrote: Funny how different Nationalities have different traits historical and cultural, many are expressed as caricatures, like the efficient German, hot bloodied Italian, stiff upper lipped English.

How does this tie in with our very own resident Swede ?

One of the key characteristics of Swedish culture is that Swedes are egalitarian in nature, humble and find boasting absolutely unacceptable. In many ways, Swedes prefer to listen to others as opposed to ensuring that their own voice is heard.

When speaking, Swedes speak softly and calmly. It is rare that you were witness a Swede demonstrating anger or strong emotion in public.

The stereotype is correct! The fact that I have lived nearly half of my life abroad renders me exempt. Do not judge my countrymen by what you see from me. You'll be terribly disappointed.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:34 am

High Threshold;1475953 wrote: Well, since you've decided to introduce “the chicken & the egg then it's only fair to say that between “Hollywood films and what the people want it seems VERY clear it was Hollywood films what came first. Unless you think that people went about their lives yearning for a Hollywood film about guns even before film-making was invented. To be even more graphic, you may as well say that the crave to shoot heroin came before the first injection/snort.From Steamboat Willie to Psycho.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:13 am

FourPart;1475955 wrote: From Steamboat Willie to Psycho.

Meaning ..... ?