There's an interesting pamphlet from the Council on Foreign Relations (Report No. 72: "Revising U.S. Grand Strategy Toward China") which is well worth reading twice.
A copy can be found at, for example, http://carnegieendowment.org/files/Tellis_Blackwill.pdf
Here's a paragraph:Given this painful history, it is not surprising that China’s primary
strategic goal in contemporary times has been the accumulation of
“comprehensive national power. This pursuit of power in all its dimen-
sions—economic, military, technological, and diplomatic—is driven by
the conviction that China, a great civilization undone by the hostility
of others, could never attain its destiny unless it amassed the power
necessary to ward off the hostility of those opposed to this quest. This
conception, shared by all Chinese leaders since 1949, reflects a vision of
politics that views conflict as intrinsic to the human condition. In this
“parabellum paradigm, superior power alone creates order. China’s
success as a state requires its leaders to possess greater capabilities than
any other entity inside or outside its borders.
What strikes me so forcibly is the mirror imagery of the statement. From outside the USA, it makes at least as much sense to turn the statement completely around:It is not surprising that America’s primary strategic goal in contemporary times has been the accumulation of “comprehensive national power. This pursuit of power in all its dimensions - economic, military, technological, and diplomatic - is driven by the conviction that America could never attain its manifest destiny unless it amassed the power necessary to ward off the hostility of those opposed to this quest. This conception, shared by all American leaders since 1948, reflects a vision of politics that views conflict as intrinsic to the human condition. In this “parabellum paradigm, superior power alone creates order. America’s success as a state requires its leaders to possess greater capabilities than any other entity inside or outside its borders.
Had I written those words, people would no doubt have criticized me for bias. But they sound far more sustainable in my version than they do in the original, don't you think.
US relations with China
US relations with China
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
US relations with China
I would actually find the secondary version more plausible. In fact, if taken from the American version it puts America in a far better light than they seem to the rest of the world as the section only refers to 'National' Power. Any country is perfectly entitled to run its own affairs howsoever they choose within their own borders. This is hardly the record that America has. Change 'China / Chinese' for 'America / American' & 'National' for 'International' & you have it.
US relations with China
Shall we play that game again?
The CFR version:More fundamentally, it requires that others accept this order as legitimate, which
the historian Wang Gungwu has described as a “principle of superiority
underwriting Beijing’s “long-hallowed tradition of treating foreign
countries as all alike but unequal and inferior to China. Consistent
with this principle, Henry Kissinger, describing the traditional sinocentric
system, has correctly noted that China “considered itself, in a sense,
the sole sovereign government of the world, wherein the emperor’s
purview was not “a sovereign state of ‘China’...but ‘All Under Heaven,’
of which China formed the central, civilized part.
and the mirror-world reality we live under:More fundamentally, it requires that others accept this order as legitimate, which historians traditionally describe as American Exceptionalism, a “principle of superiority underwriting Washington’s “long-hallowed tradition of treating foreign countries as all alike but unequal and inferior to America. Consistent with this principle, President George W Bush, describing the traditional US-centric system, has correctly noted that “Now, we can see a new world coming into view wherein the President’s purview was not a sovereign United States of America, but "A world in which there is the very real prospect of a New World Order" in which America formed the central, controlling part, and calling for a domestic refocus: "we cannot lead a new world abroad if, at home, it’s politics as usual on American defense and diplomacy [...] It’s time to rise above the parochial and the pork barrel, to do what is necessary, what’s right and what will enable this nation to play the leadership role required of us.".
Does nobody remember President Obama addressing the United Nations with this nugget: "Some may disagree, but I believe America is exceptional"?
The CFR lives in Topsy-Turvy Land.
The CFR version:More fundamentally, it requires that others accept this order as legitimate, which
the historian Wang Gungwu has described as a “principle of superiority
underwriting Beijing’s “long-hallowed tradition of treating foreign
countries as all alike but unequal and inferior to China. Consistent
with this principle, Henry Kissinger, describing the traditional sinocentric
system, has correctly noted that China “considered itself, in a sense,
the sole sovereign government of the world, wherein the emperor’s
purview was not “a sovereign state of ‘China’...but ‘All Under Heaven,’
of which China formed the central, civilized part.
and the mirror-world reality we live under:More fundamentally, it requires that others accept this order as legitimate, which historians traditionally describe as American Exceptionalism, a “principle of superiority underwriting Washington’s “long-hallowed tradition of treating foreign countries as all alike but unequal and inferior to America. Consistent with this principle, President George W Bush, describing the traditional US-centric system, has correctly noted that “Now, we can see a new world coming into view wherein the President’s purview was not a sovereign United States of America, but "A world in which there is the very real prospect of a New World Order" in which America formed the central, controlling part, and calling for a domestic refocus: "we cannot lead a new world abroad if, at home, it’s politics as usual on American defense and diplomacy [...] It’s time to rise above the parochial and the pork barrel, to do what is necessary, what’s right and what will enable this nation to play the leadership role required of us.".
Does nobody remember President Obama addressing the United Nations with this nugget: "Some may disagree, but I believe America is exceptional"?
The CFR lives in Topsy-Turvy Land.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
US relations with China
Still works.
US relations with China
Who by their purchasing power has given China a boost to these supposed ambitions ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
US relations with China
Bruv;1478530 wrote: Who by their purchasing power has given China a boost to these supposed ambitions ?
Me! Me! It was me, I did it!
Me! Me! It was me, I did it!
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6631
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
US relations with China
Bruv;1478530 wrote: Who by their purchasing power has given China a boost to these supposed ambitions ?
As if there was a choice? There isn't. Everything we want is made in China thanks to their slave wages & greedy capitalists.
As if there was a choice? There isn't. Everything we want is made in China thanks to their slave wages & greedy capitalists.
US relations with China
AnneBoleyn;1478542 wrote: As if there was a choice? There isn't. Everything we want is made in China thanks to their slave wages & greedy capitalists.
Erect a trade barrier around your country, no manufactured end user or parts product comes in from anywhere without paying a 200% federal import tax.
Slave wages? If you had a genuinely anonymous poll of every sufficiently old adult resident of China asking whether they feel better off, wealthier and less tense today than they did in, say, 1965 or 1975 or 1987 or 1995, do you suppose the majority would tick "yes" in each column? I do.
And in America?
No, me neither.
Erect a trade barrier around your country, no manufactured end user or parts product comes in from anywhere without paying a 200% federal import tax.
Slave wages? If you had a genuinely anonymous poll of every sufficiently old adult resident of China asking whether they feel better off, wealthier and less tense today than they did in, say, 1965 or 1975 or 1987 or 1995, do you suppose the majority would tick "yes" in each column? I do.
And in America?
No, me neither.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
US relations with China
AnneBoleyn;1478542 wrote: As if there was a choice? There isn't. Everything we want is made in China thanks to their slave wages & greedy capitalists.
The purchaser in the shop always has the choice.
After making that post I discovered that Japan has over taken the US as China's biggest debtor.
The purchaser in the shop always has the choice.
After making that post I discovered that Japan has over taken the US as China's biggest debtor.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
US relations with China
Even the labelling on items you buy in the stores can be misleading. They may say "Made In U.K.", but when you break it down you're likely to find that nearly all the components are made in such countries as China. It's the difference between "Made In U.K." & "Assembled In U.K.".
US relations with China
I'd rather it was assembled in China, it's so much more likely to be reliable.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
US relations with China
And as well as Silicone Chips they make better Fish & Chips.
US relations with China
FourPart;1478570 wrote: And as well as Silicone Chips they make better Fish & Chips.
There is, to the best of my knowledge, no politically correct name that describes such a food outlet. But there's a lot of them around.
There is, to the best of my knowledge, no politically correct name that describes such a food outlet. But there's a lot of them around.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6631
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
US relations with China
Bruv;1478546 wrote: The purchaser in the shop always has the choice.
After making that post I discovered that Japan has over taken the US as China's biggest debtor.
The purchaser better be prepared to go home. I can't think of any electronic sold here not made in China, not matter what the company.
After making that post I discovered that Japan has over taken the US as China's biggest debtor.
The purchaser better be prepared to go home. I can't think of any electronic sold here not made in China, not matter what the company.
US relations with China
AnneBoleyn;1478605 wrote: The purchaser better be prepared to go home. I can't think of any electronic sold here not made in China, not matter what the company.
And how many homeless and unemployed on food stamps ?
We are the same, it's a shame though isn't it?
And how many homeless and unemployed on food stamps ?
We are the same, it's a shame though isn't it?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6631
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
US relations with China
spot;1478568 wrote: I'd rather it was assembled in China, it's so much more likely to be reliable.
I think you are dead wrong, as dead as many pets here who ate food made in China; the crap they pass off here is scandalous, i.e. things used in home construction. I don't blame the Chinese worker at all, I blame the crooks & the corner-cutters making the profit. Things used to last a long time, were able to be repaired, & if you can't remember that, you have an agenda.
More reliable than what, btw? My old Panasonic stereo, which I received from my parents when I was in middle-school like 50 years ago, still works! I believe it was a British product. My Farberware broiler, over 45 years old, made in the USA, still works too. Neither product, now made elsewhere, will ever be able to make that claim. Our products, from both our nations, were the tops, period.
I think you are dead wrong, as dead as many pets here who ate food made in China; the crap they pass off here is scandalous, i.e. things used in home construction. I don't blame the Chinese worker at all, I blame the crooks & the corner-cutters making the profit. Things used to last a long time, were able to be repaired, & if you can't remember that, you have an agenda.
More reliable than what, btw? My old Panasonic stereo, which I received from my parents when I was in middle-school like 50 years ago, still works! I believe it was a British product. My Farberware broiler, over 45 years old, made in the USA, still works too. Neither product, now made elsewhere, will ever be able to make that claim. Our products, from both our nations, were the tops, period.
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AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6631
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
US relations with China
Bruv;1478606 wrote: And how many homeless and unemployed on food stamps ?
We are the same, it's a shame though isn't it?
Nothing wrong with having food stamps, no shame, but not enough money is given. Homeless? The Greatest Shame of all. It's those effin pigs, the least amount of people who control the most of everything. It's feudalism, and we all are complicit.
We are the same, it's a shame though isn't it?
Nothing wrong with having food stamps, no shame, but not enough money is given. Homeless? The Greatest Shame of all. It's those effin pigs, the least amount of people who control the most of everything. It's feudalism, and we all are complicit.
US relations with China
AnneBoleyn;1478607 wrote: I think you are dead wrong, as dead as many pets here who ate food made in China; the crap they pass off here is scandalous
For goodness sake then, don't buy it. Buy selectively. Buy the stuff that works, like I do.
For goodness sake then, don't buy it. Buy selectively. Buy the stuff that works, like I do.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6631
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
US relations with China
Re: the pet food. The ingredients which hurt the pets were not listed as coming from China. Many things that have parts made in China are not listed either. As for me, I am always selective, as well as I am able. I'm not a consumerist who just buys stuff just to have it.
US relations with China
AnneBoleyn;1478612 wrote: Re: the pet food. The ingredients which hurt the pets were not listed as coming from China. Many things that have parts made in China are not listed either.The responsibility goes all the way back down the supply chain. If a US-assembled product X kills dogs then its US brand name value will flatline and some American in Purchasing will never be employed in an executive job again.
If my Android phone fails to satisfy me I'll not buy another THL handset again. So far I've bought four for the family because I rate them as high quality handsets.
If my Android phone fails to satisfy me I'll not buy another THL handset again. So far I've bought four for the family because I rate them as high quality handsets.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
US relations with China
AnneBoleyn;1478608 wrote: Nothing wrong with having food stamps, no shame, but not enough money is given. Homeless? The Greatest Shame of all. It's those effin pigs, the least amount of people who control the most of everything. It's feudalism, and we all are complicit.
You are talking to someone who believes deeply in universal social care who has several times in my work life been supported by the benefit system.
You can only buy what is in the store, the international buyers can choose to buy abroad cheaply in order to maximise profits now, without thinking about the unemployment caused and the drop in wages to enhance future profit.
The sophisticated western commercial system is slowly killing itself.
You are talking to someone who believes deeply in universal social care who has several times in my work life been supported by the benefit system.
You can only buy what is in the store, the international buyers can choose to buy abroad cheaply in order to maximise profits now, without thinking about the unemployment caused and the drop in wages to enhance future profit.
The sophisticated western commercial system is slowly killing itself.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth