That's quite true Xxena. What annoys me is the cost of the TV ads, especially the prime time slots. £1,000,000 a slot at least and more. This is a criminal waste of money. I do not believe it is necessary to society. People have the ability to find something when they need it. Not necessarily the Internet, not everyone has this.
Fortunately, although I may have the TV on in the background in the evenings (although I tend to prefer playing music), I record everything I want to watch. This means I'm not bombarded with all the crap and I can fast forward the ads.
Is there a way out of this? I don't know.
Political Correctness
Political Correctness
Far Rider wrote:
I would have pressed charges and when the girls pressed charges against my daughter I'd have taken it to court
What a blasted ridiculous statement. Why on Earth do you think the schools are getting so politically correct? We have to be with people like you sueing us at every turn.
So your attitude is what caused this mess, thanks a lot, Far.
You just admitted you are part of the problem, not the solution.
I would have pressed charges and when the girls pressed charges against my daughter I'd have taken it to court
What a blasted ridiculous statement. Why on Earth do you think the schools are getting so politically correct? We have to be with people like you sueing us at every turn.
So your attitude is what caused this mess, thanks a lot, Far.
You just admitted you are part of the problem, not the solution.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Political Correctness
Generalizing again Jives... people that SUE do so for legitimate reasons
as well as those that do it just to make money. The current problem in the USA
right now is too many are using lawsuits as a way to make quick fast money without ever lifting a finger and working for it, many outright lying in their suits where there is no truth or basis for the suit as a quick way for some fast money. That used to be called FRAUD and ILLEGAL, now PC thinking calles it "confused".
If you noted in my post when I did sue it was NOT to make money.. it was a prove a point that those that break the law should not be given a "get out of Jail"free
card, there are repercussions for negative and antisocial behavior against those that live by the rules and the law. Hence, my suit for the medical bills, I could have done the usual PC thing and gone for all the "pseudo psycholigical garbage" that people do, BUT that would be teaching my kids a very wrong message and I MADE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR when I did what I did the reasoning behind it.
The school wanted to make a point and suspend my daugther for "defending herself" then it should have made a much stronger point for the attackers, which was NOT THEIR FIRST OFFENSE NOR THEIR LAST PRIOR to their final explusion.
Obviously the "slap the hand theory" of political Correctness is a joke and not only does NOT WORK, but its not taken seriously by those that offend and break the laws.. all laws, of justice, of ethics, morals etc.
How about Toledo OHIO this past week... there's a good example of where
your precious Political Correctness gets you and where its headed...
MOB mentaility in full force for the world to see.. and I'm suppose
to feel sorry for these people? GIVE ME A BREAK... and to top it off the
STUPID KKK never even marched .. they left when the brainless mob twits got
going.... unfortunately those dumb nuts just gave creedence no matter how bad the KKK are to what they say to demonize another group of people.
Try and defend their lawlessness and I"ll give you instances where other people in worse situations never rioted and did just the opposite, tried to turn a bad
situation that could have blown up into a lot of violence and turned it into something positive for the world to see.
I tend to be a tad more liberal on some subjects than FAR, possibly the female in me, when it comes to raising my kids. I've never told them an outright NO, but tried to give them examples or set examples of why I am against something and get them to think BEFORE they make a final decision on an issue that might affect
them the rest of their lives. Just as when I am vehemently for some issue personally, they are well aware of that but when they want to discuss alternative
attitudes towards that issue I do and will listen to other sides, sometimes adjusting my decision if the facts warrant it, other times standing firm.
Schools by their nature are places of education, which also means the education of LEARNING to live by the laws of a civil society as well as when you disobey or break those laws there are repercussions and punishment for doing that. In your politically correct society... there is NOTHING... hell has opened the gates and everyone is running around doing whatever the hell they want, when they want and don't care who they affect or hurt while doing it with absolutely NO FEAR
of having to answer for their antisocial actions.
THAT is not society that is chaos, and what we are moving towards faster than
most realize that embrace this idiotic mindset. YOU will reap what you sow and YOU won't like the outcome.. trust me, History has seen it time and time again and too many are still not paying attention and learning from it, that's obvious.
Enjoy your Poltical Correctness until it turns around and BITES you personally, then we'll wait for the whinning and hand wringing about how YOU were wronged.. and then we'll all just smile to ourselves and walk away...leaving you to savor every moment of what you are reaping.
as well as those that do it just to make money. The current problem in the USA
right now is too many are using lawsuits as a way to make quick fast money without ever lifting a finger and working for it, many outright lying in their suits where there is no truth or basis for the suit as a quick way for some fast money. That used to be called FRAUD and ILLEGAL, now PC thinking calles it "confused".
If you noted in my post when I did sue it was NOT to make money.. it was a prove a point that those that break the law should not be given a "get out of Jail"free
card, there are repercussions for negative and antisocial behavior against those that live by the rules and the law. Hence, my suit for the medical bills, I could have done the usual PC thing and gone for all the "pseudo psycholigical garbage" that people do, BUT that would be teaching my kids a very wrong message and I MADE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR when I did what I did the reasoning behind it.
The school wanted to make a point and suspend my daugther for "defending herself" then it should have made a much stronger point for the attackers, which was NOT THEIR FIRST OFFENSE NOR THEIR LAST PRIOR to their final explusion.
Obviously the "slap the hand theory" of political Correctness is a joke and not only does NOT WORK, but its not taken seriously by those that offend and break the laws.. all laws, of justice, of ethics, morals etc.
How about Toledo OHIO this past week... there's a good example of where
your precious Political Correctness gets you and where its headed...
MOB mentaility in full force for the world to see.. and I'm suppose
to feel sorry for these people? GIVE ME A BREAK... and to top it off the
STUPID KKK never even marched .. they left when the brainless mob twits got
going.... unfortunately those dumb nuts just gave creedence no matter how bad the KKK are to what they say to demonize another group of people.
Try and defend their lawlessness and I"ll give you instances where other people in worse situations never rioted and did just the opposite, tried to turn a bad
situation that could have blown up into a lot of violence and turned it into something positive for the world to see.
I tend to be a tad more liberal on some subjects than FAR, possibly the female in me, when it comes to raising my kids. I've never told them an outright NO, but tried to give them examples or set examples of why I am against something and get them to think BEFORE they make a final decision on an issue that might affect
them the rest of their lives. Just as when I am vehemently for some issue personally, they are well aware of that but when they want to discuss alternative
attitudes towards that issue I do and will listen to other sides, sometimes adjusting my decision if the facts warrant it, other times standing firm.
Schools by their nature are places of education, which also means the education of LEARNING to live by the laws of a civil society as well as when you disobey or break those laws there are repercussions and punishment for doing that. In your politically correct society... there is NOTHING... hell has opened the gates and everyone is running around doing whatever the hell they want, when they want and don't care who they affect or hurt while doing it with absolutely NO FEAR
of having to answer for their antisocial actions.
THAT is not society that is chaos, and what we are moving towards faster than
most realize that embrace this idiotic mindset. YOU will reap what you sow and YOU won't like the outcome.. trust me, History has seen it time and time again and too many are still not paying attention and learning from it, that's obvious.
Enjoy your Poltical Correctness until it turns around and BITES you personally, then we'll wait for the whinning and hand wringing about how YOU were wronged.. and then we'll all just smile to ourselves and walk away...leaving you to savor every moment of what you are reaping.
The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya)
Political Correctness
Far Rider wrote: Jives, you normally impress me but on this issue we just disagree. of course id have pressed charges against the girls, the way in which the administration played the heavy hand in getting the attackers off the hook demonstrates injustice. These girls were bullies plain and simple and should have been delt with long before.
Id have been forced to sue to deal with the problem and clear my daughters name.
Is that being part of the problem or is that a consequence of the existing problem? The school failed first or I'd not have to sue.
Crazy that I'm arguing over a hypathetical issue for me.
Hypothetical issues for a group, like here, are usually preempted by issues based in reality for someone that is either living through it currently or has.. therefore discussion is good in the sense it can find the strong and weak points of what was done as it was at that point in time and if it needs fixing you fix it, not, then you leave it be. How do you think case law is determined and courts find verdicts down the line in like situations, or create them if there is no prescedent to base it upon. You ever read or heard when some big court case is being followed by the media that "there is no case law to base any ...... on "...
Same applies here... this highschool and its district have been in operation here for 50 years... up until the last 20 it was basically a small rural community that was starting to grow quickly as a large suburban metropolian area... the incidents of violence and real problems like this were RARE up until the late 80's as I was told by one conselour. Heck.. this highschool in particular had one of the highest ranked shooting teams in the state and the Midwest.. they HAD 2 trophy cases full of the ribbons and trophies their target team took over the years in local, state and from the late 60's through the early 80's.. not any more since the sport of target and competition shooting is no longer politically correct and the laws are now aimed at the lawful owners NOT the criminals that create the havoc.
16 years ago when we built this house and moved here our particular city was barely 9,000 people, 16 years later its double that and we're land locked. The cities surrounding us have doubled and quadrupled in size in that same time.
It stands to reason with such a great influx of people from all areas, all walks of life, what was, no longer is. A school district that had next to NO problems due to small populations, small classes, residents that all knew each other, teachers that knew their students and parents well has turned into a smaller version of
the mega cities like the closest, Chicago.. you have huge hordes of people in a system that now is no longer known and friendly but more of a education mill
to get the students in and turn them out for graduation.. and you are now seeing all the problems that breed within the big cities and their schools. The good with the bad.
To address these problems as one bandaide fixes all is ludricous and that is exactly what Political Correctness tries to do... use one big fix to answer everything for every problem it encounters. Time after time, instance after instance the facts are it does not work and it more often than not creates MORE problems as it goes along.
What I created as a discussion here based on the facts of something that my family actully experienced and lived through 9 years ago... is happening right now somewhere else probably many times over and has happened else where prior to today and will happen after today.. discussion is hardly a moot point... trying to shove it under the carpet under the Guise of Political Correctness is the cureall..it the travesty.
urgh.. phones again.. ciao
Id have been forced to sue to deal with the problem and clear my daughters name.
Is that being part of the problem or is that a consequence of the existing problem? The school failed first or I'd not have to sue.
Crazy that I'm arguing over a hypathetical issue for me.
Hypothetical issues for a group, like here, are usually preempted by issues based in reality for someone that is either living through it currently or has.. therefore discussion is good in the sense it can find the strong and weak points of what was done as it was at that point in time and if it needs fixing you fix it, not, then you leave it be. How do you think case law is determined and courts find verdicts down the line in like situations, or create them if there is no prescedent to base it upon. You ever read or heard when some big court case is being followed by the media that "there is no case law to base any ...... on "...
Same applies here... this highschool and its district have been in operation here for 50 years... up until the last 20 it was basically a small rural community that was starting to grow quickly as a large suburban metropolian area... the incidents of violence and real problems like this were RARE up until the late 80's as I was told by one conselour. Heck.. this highschool in particular had one of the highest ranked shooting teams in the state and the Midwest.. they HAD 2 trophy cases full of the ribbons and trophies their target team took over the years in local, state and from the late 60's through the early 80's.. not any more since the sport of target and competition shooting is no longer politically correct and the laws are now aimed at the lawful owners NOT the criminals that create the havoc.
16 years ago when we built this house and moved here our particular city was barely 9,000 people, 16 years later its double that and we're land locked. The cities surrounding us have doubled and quadrupled in size in that same time.
It stands to reason with such a great influx of people from all areas, all walks of life, what was, no longer is. A school district that had next to NO problems due to small populations, small classes, residents that all knew each other, teachers that knew their students and parents well has turned into a smaller version of
the mega cities like the closest, Chicago.. you have huge hordes of people in a system that now is no longer known and friendly but more of a education mill
to get the students in and turn them out for graduation.. and you are now seeing all the problems that breed within the big cities and their schools. The good with the bad.
To address these problems as one bandaide fixes all is ludricous and that is exactly what Political Correctness tries to do... use one big fix to answer everything for every problem it encounters. Time after time, instance after instance the facts are it does not work and it more often than not creates MORE problems as it goes along.
What I created as a discussion here based on the facts of something that my family actully experienced and lived through 9 years ago... is happening right now somewhere else probably many times over and has happened else where prior to today and will happen after today.. discussion is hardly a moot point... trying to shove it under the carpet under the Guise of Political Correctness is the cureall..it the travesty.
urgh.. phones again.. ciao
The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya)
Political Correctness
I'll say it again, a school is not society. If any of the children had been killed, how would that look?
Can any of you seriously be recommending that we teach that it's OK to kill your fellow students, as long as they are bullying you?
Hello Columbine, goodbye school. Think about it.
Can any of you seriously be recommending that we teach that it's OK to kill your fellow students, as long as they are bullying you?
Hello Columbine, goodbye school. Think about it.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Political Correctness
ArnoldLayne wrote: Jives , thanks I have thought about it.
Perhaps, that without the defense she put up there could well have been a death.
Im am not advocating you teach your students to kill fellow students:-2
I would recommend that a daughter of mine would defend herself against a similar attack.And I would expect the school to advocate a zero tolerance policy to bullying. Apparantly these girls still get off on it
Well...someone finally said it. I figured we'd get around to it eventually. Both sides are right. There's no way to end this thread or this argument simply because there is no way to compromise on either side.
As a school, we can't allow anyone's children to be maimed, injured or killed, even if that child is a bully or an aggressor. Believe me, even screwed-up kid's parents love their children as much as you do.
As a society, we can't teach people it's not OK to defend themselves in a violent situation, because just as it's wrong to hurt others, it's also wrong to let yourself be hurt.
There is no common ground between these positions. They are mutually exclusive.
So here's what we have to hope for, and it's the best we can do. Parents will teach their kids not to be violent and will stress the terrible things that can happen from just one punch. (Don't believe me? Ask the "hockey dad", he's doing 25 to life for that single punch that killed that referee at his son's game.)
Parents wil also teach their children to defend themselves if attacked. (But only until they can extricate themselves from the situation. If you knock out the aggressor, it's not OK to face stomp them when they are down because now you are the aggressor.)
The schools will teach the children that violence of any kind is strictly forbidden and that any violence will result in both sides being punished. Since, like I said before, violence has a terrible way of escalating until things happen that cannot be repaired and each child, (even the mean-spirited ones) is an irreplaceable human being.
It's not a perfect system, but then what human system is? But it's still the best we've got.
Perhaps, that without the defense she put up there could well have been a death.
Im am not advocating you teach your students to kill fellow students:-2
I would recommend that a daughter of mine would defend herself against a similar attack.And I would expect the school to advocate a zero tolerance policy to bullying. Apparantly these girls still get off on it
Well...someone finally said it. I figured we'd get around to it eventually. Both sides are right. There's no way to end this thread or this argument simply because there is no way to compromise on either side.
As a school, we can't allow anyone's children to be maimed, injured or killed, even if that child is a bully or an aggressor. Believe me, even screwed-up kid's parents love their children as much as you do.
As a society, we can't teach people it's not OK to defend themselves in a violent situation, because just as it's wrong to hurt others, it's also wrong to let yourself be hurt.
There is no common ground between these positions. They are mutually exclusive.
So here's what we have to hope for, and it's the best we can do. Parents will teach their kids not to be violent and will stress the terrible things that can happen from just one punch. (Don't believe me? Ask the "hockey dad", he's doing 25 to life for that single punch that killed that referee at his son's game.)
Parents wil also teach their children to defend themselves if attacked. (But only until they can extricate themselves from the situation. If you knock out the aggressor, it's not OK to face stomp them when they are down because now you are the aggressor.)
The schools will teach the children that violence of any kind is strictly forbidden and that any violence will result in both sides being punished. Since, like I said before, violence has a terrible way of escalating until things happen that cannot be repaired and each child, (even the mean-spirited ones) is an irreplaceable human being.
It's not a perfect system, but then what human system is? But it's still the best we've got.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Political Correctness
By their own admission to both the officer on duty and the school authorities that interviewed all of them, the attack was planned and had been in the plans for a few weeks. THAT IS IN ANY COURT OF LAW PREMEDITATED.. SAME AS COLUMBINE if you want to compare the two.. The two girls attack was brutal and vicious and they had no plans of stopping unless they hurt her who knows how badly if not stopped, or until they were stopped - which they also freely admitted.
JUST like Columbine.. my kid fought back, as did a few of the students UNDER attack during the Columbine massacre - if the shooters had not been killed/committed suicide - and they were tried for the murderous spree do you think the court would have then arrested the kids in the rooms they attacked that fought back to stop them and tried to put them on trial for the same type
of PREMEDIATED VIOLENCE ?
Political Correctness is dangerous in the fact that it makes no distinctions in the vast differences in like situations and indivual cases.. it tries to lump everything into one neat pile and treat every situation and every individual the same.
There is a big difference between resorting to extreme means to protect ones self from harm is immediate escape is not a viable option.. vs violence against another for the sheer enjoyment of doing so whatever the reason may be.... which by the way as an instructor for Self Defense via firearms is the NUMBER ONE RULE when in such a situation.. if you can get out immediately without harm to anyone including yourself.. YOU GET THE HELL OUT.. you don't pick a fight you don't jeapordize yourself or others to be cool or be macho !
Both these girls had a history of violent attacks on other students - the school's administration had a history of slapping hands and looking the other way.. these girls had a history of enjoying preying upon others that did not give them immediate gratification of their momentary demands, their parents and the school looked the other way... then they tried it on my daugther who had been taught to defend herself when attacked which she did...
You are right it could have been a kid with a real mental problem that would have done something more than just defend themselves that could have proven lethal
to these 2 girls.. BUT... they made a conscieous choice to stalk and attack people.. no one made them do it... they did it of their own free will with no prodding.. the
risks are theirs to bear when they enter into activies that are antisocial that can have bad outcomes. They have no one to blame but themselves... at age 16 and 17 they are old enough to know right from wrong.. but obviously from their parents on down to the school system they were never taught to take any responsiblity for their decisions and actions. THAT is THEIR problem.. not my kids, other people's kids they attacked or us parents that teach our kids they are responsible for their actions.
The schools are there to teach, the teachers are there to teach.. if the teaching institutions would DEMAND accountability on the juvenile justice system and parents or guardians of their children AND the kids old enough to know better, maybe the school systems would not find themselves into policing more than teaching.
At some point people in your profession have to stand up to the bullying status quo.. be it your unions or others in administration and tell them you will not be their lackies for the political policy that they cater to... they have perverted the purpose of the schools and the teachers with this lopsided political crap and its taking its toll very seriously on a LOT of people and hundreds of thousands of our kids in these systems.
There is nothing wrong with discipline and in school like when all of us here were growing up... school meant obeying the rules, respecting your teachers like them or not, doing what was expected of you without back mouthing everyone around you - shutting up and not whinning about what you liked or didn't like. It was also meant to create a positive competition situation where the kids that didn't care, gave little effort or were a little slower could be given goals to achieve and
form some sense of self esteem along with self discipline and grow into
well functioning adults.
NOW we have this one size fits all way of teaching, governing, disciplining so everyone is the same and equal with warm and fuzzy feelings.. well, maybe the rest of you like being some little kmart clone, but count me OUT..
NOTHING in life is guaranteed other than you are born and YOU WILL DIE ! Everything else inbetween is either what you make of yourself and your life or you might have the luck of the draw and be born rich and politically connected..
or you can take a life of crime and preying upon others and then look to the PC system that tries to wet nurse all you whinning nurdballs and do the "poor me,
my mother didn't breast feed me rountine" so you get your Get out Jail CARD
for free and go on with your antics at the expense of others.
I like being independent and doing for myself, making my goals I set and moving forward to acheive more on my own and without breaking laws and having people hand things to me and that is how I have raised my kids ! I don't think that is too much to ask of others in society around me either. Aferall isn't that what this country and a free society was built upon... or have we gone so far in that full circle there is no way back to where we took the wrong turn ?
JUST like Columbine.. my kid fought back, as did a few of the students UNDER attack during the Columbine massacre - if the shooters had not been killed/committed suicide - and they were tried for the murderous spree do you think the court would have then arrested the kids in the rooms they attacked that fought back to stop them and tried to put them on trial for the same type
of PREMEDIATED VIOLENCE ?
Political Correctness is dangerous in the fact that it makes no distinctions in the vast differences in like situations and indivual cases.. it tries to lump everything into one neat pile and treat every situation and every individual the same.
There is a big difference between resorting to extreme means to protect ones self from harm is immediate escape is not a viable option.. vs violence against another for the sheer enjoyment of doing so whatever the reason may be.... which by the way as an instructor for Self Defense via firearms is the NUMBER ONE RULE when in such a situation.. if you can get out immediately without harm to anyone including yourself.. YOU GET THE HELL OUT.. you don't pick a fight you don't jeapordize yourself or others to be cool or be macho !
Both these girls had a history of violent attacks on other students - the school's administration had a history of slapping hands and looking the other way.. these girls had a history of enjoying preying upon others that did not give them immediate gratification of their momentary demands, their parents and the school looked the other way... then they tried it on my daugther who had been taught to defend herself when attacked which she did...
You are right it could have been a kid with a real mental problem that would have done something more than just defend themselves that could have proven lethal
to these 2 girls.. BUT... they made a conscieous choice to stalk and attack people.. no one made them do it... they did it of their own free will with no prodding.. the
risks are theirs to bear when they enter into activies that are antisocial that can have bad outcomes. They have no one to blame but themselves... at age 16 and 17 they are old enough to know right from wrong.. but obviously from their parents on down to the school system they were never taught to take any responsiblity for their decisions and actions. THAT is THEIR problem.. not my kids, other people's kids they attacked or us parents that teach our kids they are responsible for their actions.
The schools are there to teach, the teachers are there to teach.. if the teaching institutions would DEMAND accountability on the juvenile justice system and parents or guardians of their children AND the kids old enough to know better, maybe the school systems would not find themselves into policing more than teaching.
At some point people in your profession have to stand up to the bullying status quo.. be it your unions or others in administration and tell them you will not be their lackies for the political policy that they cater to... they have perverted the purpose of the schools and the teachers with this lopsided political crap and its taking its toll very seriously on a LOT of people and hundreds of thousands of our kids in these systems.
There is nothing wrong with discipline and in school like when all of us here were growing up... school meant obeying the rules, respecting your teachers like them or not, doing what was expected of you without back mouthing everyone around you - shutting up and not whinning about what you liked or didn't like. It was also meant to create a positive competition situation where the kids that didn't care, gave little effort or were a little slower could be given goals to achieve and
form some sense of self esteem along with self discipline and grow into
well functioning adults.
NOW we have this one size fits all way of teaching, governing, disciplining so everyone is the same and equal with warm and fuzzy feelings.. well, maybe the rest of you like being some little kmart clone, but count me OUT..
NOTHING in life is guaranteed other than you are born and YOU WILL DIE ! Everything else inbetween is either what you make of yourself and your life or you might have the luck of the draw and be born rich and politically connected..
or you can take a life of crime and preying upon others and then look to the PC system that tries to wet nurse all you whinning nurdballs and do the "poor me,
my mother didn't breast feed me rountine" so you get your Get out Jail CARD
for free and go on with your antics at the expense of others.
I like being independent and doing for myself, making my goals I set and moving forward to acheive more on my own and without breaking laws and having people hand things to me and that is how I have raised my kids ! I don't think that is too much to ask of others in society around me either. Aferall isn't that what this country and a free society was built upon... or have we gone so far in that full circle there is no way back to where we took the wrong turn ?
The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya)
Political Correctness
Solution without "compromise" simple.. I reiterate from previous post :
Political Correctness is dangerous in the fact that it makes no distinctions in the vast differences in like situations and individual cases.. it tries to lump everything into one neat pile and treat every situation and every individual the same.
There is a big difference between resorting to extreme means to protect ones self from harm which is immediate escape is not a viable option.. vs violence against another for the sheer enjoyment of doing so whatever the reason may be.... which by the way as an instructor for Self Defense via firearms is the NUMBER ONE RULE when in such a situation.. if you can get out immediately without harm to anyone including yourself.. YOU GET THE HELL OUT.. you don't pick a fight you don't jeapordize yourself or others to be cool or be macho !
Schools by their nature are places of education, which also means the education of LEARNING to live by the laws of a civil society as well as when you disobey or break those laws there are repercussions and punishment for doing that. In your politically correct society... there is NOTHING... hell has opened the gates and everyone is running around doing whatever the hell they want, when they want and don't care who they affect or hurt while doing it with absolutely NO FEAR
of having to answer for their antisocial actions.
Obviously the "slap the hand theory" of political Correctness is a joke and not only does NOT WORK, but its not taken seriously by those that offend and break the laws.. all laws, of justice, of ethics, morals etc.
The FIX is NOT IN THE SCHOOLS, they are only the backup to enforce what should be taught at home, which was in the past and is still today in some homes in the present, but lacking in too too many. YOu want it fixed hold the people responsible that are responsible starting with the parents and then move to the agencies that oversee that when something goes amiss. including the courts and their lawyers and judges who at this point have immunity from stupidity when making rulings on cases that are so blatant a gerbil could figure it out and make better decisions.
Antisocial behavior should not be tolerated or given positive reinforcment to encourage it... punishment should fit the offense or the crime but it has to be done taking the age and the situation of the kids into consideration when young as well as older, but the powers to be should also be held accountable along side of the young offenders from parents to the courts. Maybe if everyone had shared responsibility, you'd see less of this crap happening !
Political Correctness does NOT acknowledge or encompass ANY OF THIS and that is where the problem lies... get rid of it and go back to the basics of commonsense and accountability for one personal acts good , bad or indifferent !
Political Correctness is dangerous in the fact that it makes no distinctions in the vast differences in like situations and individual cases.. it tries to lump everything into one neat pile and treat every situation and every individual the same.
There is a big difference between resorting to extreme means to protect ones self from harm which is immediate escape is not a viable option.. vs violence against another for the sheer enjoyment of doing so whatever the reason may be.... which by the way as an instructor for Self Defense via firearms is the NUMBER ONE RULE when in such a situation.. if you can get out immediately without harm to anyone including yourself.. YOU GET THE HELL OUT.. you don't pick a fight you don't jeapordize yourself or others to be cool or be macho !
Schools by their nature are places of education, which also means the education of LEARNING to live by the laws of a civil society as well as when you disobey or break those laws there are repercussions and punishment for doing that. In your politically correct society... there is NOTHING... hell has opened the gates and everyone is running around doing whatever the hell they want, when they want and don't care who they affect or hurt while doing it with absolutely NO FEAR
of having to answer for their antisocial actions.
Obviously the "slap the hand theory" of political Correctness is a joke and not only does NOT WORK, but its not taken seriously by those that offend and break the laws.. all laws, of justice, of ethics, morals etc.
The FIX is NOT IN THE SCHOOLS, they are only the backup to enforce what should be taught at home, which was in the past and is still today in some homes in the present, but lacking in too too many. YOu want it fixed hold the people responsible that are responsible starting with the parents and then move to the agencies that oversee that when something goes amiss. including the courts and their lawyers and judges who at this point have immunity from stupidity when making rulings on cases that are so blatant a gerbil could figure it out and make better decisions.
Antisocial behavior should not be tolerated or given positive reinforcment to encourage it... punishment should fit the offense or the crime but it has to be done taking the age and the situation of the kids into consideration when young as well as older, but the powers to be should also be held accountable along side of the young offenders from parents to the courts. Maybe if everyone had shared responsibility, you'd see less of this crap happening !
Political Correctness does NOT acknowledge or encompass ANY OF THIS and that is where the problem lies... get rid of it and go back to the basics of commonsense and accountability for one personal acts good , bad or indifferent !
The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya)
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Political Correctness
My opinion:
Schools have to be PC and near-zero tolerant because of the wide diversity they deal with.
Parents have to be responsible for their own kids. If they taught their kids discipline and morality to their own standards, there would be no issue about schools' being PC and zero tolerant. Unfortunately, some parents are leaving discipline training and morality training to the schools.
Schools have no business teaching morality. That is the job of the parents. Teachers already complain there isn't enough time to educate the kids in math, language, technology, etc. Make some room by dropping the social indoctrination classes.
Parents have no right blaming the schools for failing to do the parents' job.
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For those teachers and parents who need a reason to discount my opinion because it hits too close to home and is too difficult to deal with: No, I have no children of my own.
Schools have to be PC and near-zero tolerant because of the wide diversity they deal with.
Parents have to be responsible for their own kids. If they taught their kids discipline and morality to their own standards, there would be no issue about schools' being PC and zero tolerant. Unfortunately, some parents are leaving discipline training and morality training to the schools.
Schools have no business teaching morality. That is the job of the parents. Teachers already complain there isn't enough time to educate the kids in math, language, technology, etc. Make some room by dropping the social indoctrination classes.
Parents have no right blaming the schools for failing to do the parents' job.
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For those teachers and parents who need a reason to discount my opinion because it hits too close to home and is too difficult to deal with: No, I have no children of my own.
Political Correctness
There are far too many parents, and this has been said her before, who are totally unable or are unwilling to take ANY responsibility for the upbringing of their children. Those children will either fail in life or hopefully take on advice and guidance given by teachers, whether that be voluntarily given or not
On the money Arnold old bean. Forget Political correctnes which is a fairly loose ideal and get back to bringing children up with good old fashioned manners. The central tenet of which is thinking of others and behaving appropiately, that should cover it.
I have told this before but a friend of mine teaches 7 years olds, she has her first parents evening after about 6 weeks of teaching the new class and reckons she gets a 90% hit rate recongnizing the parents as they come through the door before the names are called out just from generla demeanor, behaviour, dress accent etc
On the money Arnold old bean. Forget Political correctnes which is a fairly loose ideal and get back to bringing children up with good old fashioned manners. The central tenet of which is thinking of others and behaving appropiately, that should cover it.
I have told this before but a friend of mine teaches 7 years olds, she has her first parents evening after about 6 weeks of teaching the new class and reckons she gets a 90% hit rate recongnizing the parents as they come through the door before the names are called out just from generla demeanor, behaviour, dress accent etc
"I have done my duty. I thank God for it!"
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Political Correctness
ArnoldLayne wrote:
But thats a bit of an oxymoron. The schools have found them selves in such a position because an ever increasing number of parents who dont have the ability/desire to teach their kids morality. Its the parents that do, that are the ones to complain that school doesnt teach the kids morality. Yes you are right in suggesting that school is for learning but the fact is, and has been for donkeys years, schools have always taught morality,responsibility,growing up, they deal with welfare etc. A schoolkid spends more time with a teacher than it does with a parent, so inevitably that is where the main source of influence in moralty will come.
There are far too many parents, and this has been said her before, who are totally unable or are unwilling to take ANY responsibility for the upbringing of their children. Those children will either fail in life or hopefully take on advice and guidance given by teachers, whether that be voluntarily given or not
Excellent argument for home-schooling and private education.
But thats a bit of an oxymoron. The schools have found them selves in such a position because an ever increasing number of parents who dont have the ability/desire to teach their kids morality. Its the parents that do, that are the ones to complain that school doesnt teach the kids morality. Yes you are right in suggesting that school is for learning but the fact is, and has been for donkeys years, schools have always taught morality,responsibility,growing up, they deal with welfare etc. A schoolkid spends more time with a teacher than it does with a parent, so inevitably that is where the main source of influence in moralty will come.
There are far too many parents, and this has been said her before, who are totally unable or are unwilling to take ANY responsibility for the upbringing of their children. Those children will either fail in life or hopefully take on advice and guidance given by teachers, whether that be voluntarily given or not
Excellent argument for home-schooling and private education.
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Political Correctness
You said you weren't eloquent. Liar! 
Political Correctness
Far Rider wrote: Jives Im respectfully disagreeing yet again.
How would it look if one was killed? Which one, The victim or the attacker?
Neither is acceptable, don't you guys get it? You keep advocating that it's OK to attack and possibly kill another student if they are attacking you. It isn't!
I dont think anyone here has advocated giving the right to students to kill bullies.
You're so confused you contradict yourself in the very next paragraph. See?
If I were a student at Columbine and had the opportunity to stop one of those perps by killing him, then I would have...
the question is over self defense.
Wrong. That would be the question if it was not a school. The question is over the absolute zero tolerance of violence at a school. Besides Far, you are still operating under the presumption of innocence of the "victim" when we've already established that she had as much to do with the attack as the "perpetrators.":lol:
Im seriously recommending that when attacked you fight back to the death if necessary depending on the force used against you no matter how old you are or in what setting.
Yes, and that is what Xxena is also so deludedly proposing. Can you guys possibly be serious? You actually advocate students killing other students? That is so off-the-beam and ridiculous as to be comedic.
Let's say you get your way and we begin to allow students to attack and even kill other students that are atacking them. The very first student to die would result in a backlash from the community of Biblical proportions.
Here's a perfect example:
A little girl just walked into my room and told me that she almost started a fight yesterday. I asked, "Why?" She said "Because I heard that she called me a "whore" behind my back." I said, "So? Is this person your friend?" She replied. No..." So I said, "Then why do you care what she says?" Completely lost, just like you two, she replied, "But I can't let her punk me out!" I replied, "If you hit her, you just did. You will be in trouble, you will be the aggressor and she will be the defender."
So you see, what you advocate is irrational, irresponsible and just plain won't work. The attacker will always justify their actions and consider themselves the "victim".
What you and Xxena want will cause wholesale massacre and slaughter. You won't be ending violence, you won't be right, you will just be making the problem worse.
If I were a student at Columbine and had the opportunity to stop one of those perps by killing him, then I would have... My question is this... would I have been prosecuted under a zero tolerance policy? Or the law for doing so? I suspect not.
You miss the point....the Comlumbine killers retailiated after they were attacked. They were pushed down in the locker room, they were slammed into their lockers, they were mercilessly verbally abused. Just like Xxena's daughter.
They were "victims" before they ever became aggressors.
You and Xxena just said that the victims have a right to defend themselves. They just did what you and Xxena are arguing they should be able to do. In your scenario, Xxena's daughter had the right to go ballistic and shoot the girls.So you are now on the side of the Columbine Killers. Boy, are you guys ever confused.
How would it look if one was killed? Which one, The victim or the attacker?
Neither is acceptable, don't you guys get it? You keep advocating that it's OK to attack and possibly kill another student if they are attacking you. It isn't!
I dont think anyone here has advocated giving the right to students to kill bullies.
You're so confused you contradict yourself in the very next paragraph. See?
If I were a student at Columbine and had the opportunity to stop one of those perps by killing him, then I would have...
the question is over self defense.
Wrong. That would be the question if it was not a school. The question is over the absolute zero tolerance of violence at a school. Besides Far, you are still operating under the presumption of innocence of the "victim" when we've already established that she had as much to do with the attack as the "perpetrators.":lol:
Im seriously recommending that when attacked you fight back to the death if necessary depending on the force used against you no matter how old you are or in what setting.
Yes, and that is what Xxena is also so deludedly proposing. Can you guys possibly be serious? You actually advocate students killing other students? That is so off-the-beam and ridiculous as to be comedic.
Let's say you get your way and we begin to allow students to attack and even kill other students that are atacking them. The very first student to die would result in a backlash from the community of Biblical proportions.
Here's a perfect example:
A little girl just walked into my room and told me that she almost started a fight yesterday. I asked, "Why?" She said "Because I heard that she called me a "whore" behind my back." I said, "So? Is this person your friend?" She replied. No..." So I said, "Then why do you care what she says?" Completely lost, just like you two, she replied, "But I can't let her punk me out!" I replied, "If you hit her, you just did. You will be in trouble, you will be the aggressor and she will be the defender."
So you see, what you advocate is irrational, irresponsible and just plain won't work. The attacker will always justify their actions and consider themselves the "victim".
What you and Xxena want will cause wholesale massacre and slaughter. You won't be ending violence, you won't be right, you will just be making the problem worse.
If I were a student at Columbine and had the opportunity to stop one of those perps by killing him, then I would have... My question is this... would I have been prosecuted under a zero tolerance policy? Or the law for doing so? I suspect not.
You miss the point....the Comlumbine killers retailiated after they were attacked. They were pushed down in the locker room, they were slammed into their lockers, they were mercilessly verbally abused. Just like Xxena's daughter.
They were "victims" before they ever became aggressors.
You and Xxena just said that the victims have a right to defend themselves. They just did what you and Xxena are arguing they should be able to do. In your scenario, Xxena's daughter had the right to go ballistic and shoot the girls.So you are now on the side of the Columbine Killers. Boy, are you guys ever confused.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Political Correctness
Far be it for me to speak for others but that is NOT what they, or I, argued for at all.
Yes, you said that a defender should have the right to attack the aggressors. Don't you see where that leads? The Columbine Killers felt that they were the "defenders". And rightly so, they had been attacked over and over again.
What all of you are advocating is violence for violence. That is a death spiral.
Fighting someone off in an attack cannot remotely be seen in the same context as "going ballistic and shooting girls" and none of us has argued for the right to do so.
Really? Why not? If you are sorely outnumbered by your attackers, shouldn't you be able to use a weapon to defend yourself? That's exactly what Dylan Klebold thought.
Simply, that it is not necessary or preferable, to be totally passive in such situations. A long way off of what you suggest.
What you are suggesting is some kind control in a violent situation that just doesn't exist. Like I said before, would you feel that justice was served if Xxena's daughter had suceeded in killing one of the other girls? Under your reasoning, "They deserved it and she was just defending herself!"
But we are still left with a dead child.
But of course, Xxena believes that's OK, since it wasn't her daughter who was left dead. Do you think the mother of the dead girl will react the same way?
You all are expecting the other mother to say, 'Well my daughter deserved it, since she was the attacker."
Yeah right, like that will happen. Zero tolerance, disciplining both parties, regardless of intent (which usually can't be determined anyway, see: Xxena's description of her daughter's history) is the only possible, the only logical way to go.
We cannot, absolutely cannot allow any of the children in our care to be injured, maimed, or killed.
Yes, you said that a defender should have the right to attack the aggressors. Don't you see where that leads? The Columbine Killers felt that they were the "defenders". And rightly so, they had been attacked over and over again.
What all of you are advocating is violence for violence. That is a death spiral.
Fighting someone off in an attack cannot remotely be seen in the same context as "going ballistic and shooting girls" and none of us has argued for the right to do so.
Really? Why not? If you are sorely outnumbered by your attackers, shouldn't you be able to use a weapon to defend yourself? That's exactly what Dylan Klebold thought.
Simply, that it is not necessary or preferable, to be totally passive in such situations. A long way off of what you suggest.
What you are suggesting is some kind control in a violent situation that just doesn't exist. Like I said before, would you feel that justice was served if Xxena's daughter had suceeded in killing one of the other girls? Under your reasoning, "They deserved it and she was just defending herself!"
But we are still left with a dead child.
But of course, Xxena believes that's OK, since it wasn't her daughter who was left dead. Do you think the mother of the dead girl will react the same way?
You all are expecting the other mother to say, 'Well my daughter deserved it, since she was the attacker."
Yeah right, like that will happen. Zero tolerance, disciplining both parties, regardless of intent (which usually can't be determined anyway, see: Xxena's description of her daughter's history) is the only possible, the only logical way to go.
We cannot, absolutely cannot allow any of the children in our care to be injured, maimed, or killed.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Political Correctness
Yeah...I'm getting tired of this too. Like I said before, there's no way to successfully end a debate in which both sides are diametrically opposed and worse yet, both sides are right.
Far and Arnold, I respect your viewpoint and you were nice enough to see mine. Too bad poor Xxena is so charged up she'll never see the other side.
Funny thing is, you have no idea how much I'd like to argue your side. I was the kid who was bullied in school. Being a victim many times over, I know how in my heart I really would have liked to assassinate some of the bullies that made my life so miserable. I could even have done it while they were attacking me, it would have been easy in those days, since everyone carried a pocketknife.
But I think, even then, I realized that it wouldn't have made things better in any way.
Far and Arnold, I respect your viewpoint and you were nice enough to see mine. Too bad poor Xxena is so charged up she'll never see the other side.
Funny thing is, you have no idea how much I'd like to argue your side. I was the kid who was bullied in school. Being a victim many times over, I know how in my heart I really would have liked to assassinate some of the bullies that made my life so miserable. I could even have done it while they were attacking me, it would have been easy in those days, since everyone carried a pocketknife.
But I think, even then, I realized that it wouldn't have made things better in any way.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Political Correctness
Jives wrote: Yeah...I'm getting tired of this too. Like I said before, there's no way to successfully end a debate in which both sides are diametrically opposed and worse yet, both sides are right.
Far and Arnold, I respect your viewpoint and you were nice enough to see mine. Too bad poor Xxena is so charged up she'll never see the other side.
Funny thing is, you have no idea how much I'd like to argue your side. I was the kid who was bullied in school. Being a victim many times over, I know how in my heart I really would have liked to assassinate some of the bullies that made my life so miserable. I could even have done it while they were attacking me, it would have been easy in those days, since everyone carried a pocketknife.
But I think, even then, I realized that it wouldn't have made things better in any way.
Odds are if you weren't the bully, at some point in school you got bullied - but I stand my ground on my daughter's situation - when the medical bills cost me
over $900 for that "bully incident" and more when she had rhinoplasty on her nose after age 18 so she could breath through it again... that truly did cross the line of being bullied.
Chargeded up... yes I was/am... its called maternal instinct.. and it been a son who taken a beating that badly for no reason I would have been just as angry.
I've had my fill of being the law abiding tax paying responsible citizen and watching every looser and user and antisocial jerk get away with what they do cuz no one has the guts to give them a swift kick in the arse that they deserve and make them accountable for what they do that creates problems.
Its almost 3PM.. I've been at City Hall since 10AM for the committee I chair... need to put in my 9 hours here now at work.. later when I have some time to myself.. we'll chat some more...
For the Record Jives.. anything I said is not a personal attack on you I have no problems with you since I don't know you I just don't agree with your liberal approach to such things. People need to be responsible for their actions and I don't see where that is something that can be a compromise situation.
Far and Arnold, I respect your viewpoint and you were nice enough to see mine. Too bad poor Xxena is so charged up she'll never see the other side.
Funny thing is, you have no idea how much I'd like to argue your side. I was the kid who was bullied in school. Being a victim many times over, I know how in my heart I really would have liked to assassinate some of the bullies that made my life so miserable. I could even have done it while they were attacking me, it would have been easy in those days, since everyone carried a pocketknife.
But I think, even then, I realized that it wouldn't have made things better in any way.
Odds are if you weren't the bully, at some point in school you got bullied - but I stand my ground on my daughter's situation - when the medical bills cost me
over $900 for that "bully incident" and more when she had rhinoplasty on her nose after age 18 so she could breath through it again... that truly did cross the line of being bullied.
Chargeded up... yes I was/am... its called maternal instinct.. and it been a son who taken a beating that badly for no reason I would have been just as angry.
I've had my fill of being the law abiding tax paying responsible citizen and watching every looser and user and antisocial jerk get away with what they do cuz no one has the guts to give them a swift kick in the arse that they deserve and make them accountable for what they do that creates problems.
Its almost 3PM.. I've been at City Hall since 10AM for the committee I chair... need to put in my 9 hours here now at work.. later when I have some time to myself.. we'll chat some more...
For the Record Jives.. anything I said is not a personal attack on you I have no problems with you since I don't know you I just don't agree with your liberal approach to such things. People need to be responsible for their actions and I don't see where that is something that can be a compromise situation.
The difference between Congress as envisoned by the Founding Fathers and the Congress we have today is one of them inspires patriots to support it, and the other inspires patriots to buy extra ammo (Angel Shamaya)
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mountainwind
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Political Correctness
There are good manners and respect for other people on one hand and plain licentiousness and abuse on the other, but political correctness? its pernicious its utter ***** and its the last fart of a weasel. Never before in the field of human communication were so many shafted by such *********g rubbish 