Prince Charles

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri May 15, 2015 3:32 pm

Private letters sent by the Prince of Wales to Labour ministers a decade ago have been published after a lengthy legal battle.

I don't really care, so what is all the fuss about ?

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri May 15, 2015 4:35 pm

Except for the idea that they were "private letters"

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Fri May 15, 2015 11:23 pm

LarsMac;1479262 wrote: Except for the idea that they were "private letters"
Any letter, unless it is specifically specified to be 'Open' is classed as Private.

As usual, though, much of this has been hyped up by the media, accusing him of interfering with politics. He is a U.K. Citizen & is a tax payer & as such, like it or not, he is legally entitled, by statute (No Taxation Without Representation) to have his views represented.

I've not read the letters in question. I'm not even that bothered to do so, but from what I've heard on the news, the subjects he raised were perfectly valid & still of concern today. He pointed out that the troops were being under-funded. Being ex-forces he has first hand knowledge of that, and it's true - the forces are under funded. He also raised points about more consideration being given to the environment. Quite right as well.

The real scandal is not so much about what was said in the letters, but the fact that they fell into the hands of the media in the first place. It's like Governmental Leaks. They go on all the time, and they have their "Leak Enquiries", until the fuss dies down & then conveniently brush it under the carpet & forget it ever happened. The point is, though, that ALL Governmental Employees (which MPs are), and that includes people in the Civil Service have to sign the Official Secrets Act (even I had to sign it when I worked for the DHSS, when it WAS still the DHSS). To breach this act could incur severe penalties, including possible custodial sentences. The thing is that everyday menials probably would incur such penalties for the slightest breach of policy, yet how come the Top Nobs get away with it all the time? They may claim that what they are doing is "In The Public Interest" (to say nothing of the interest in their Bank Accounts), but the fact remains it is still downright illegal, officially tantamount to Treason, and they should be expected to face the consequences in the same way as anyone else.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat May 16, 2015 6:38 am

FourPart;1479270 wrote: Any letter, unless it is specifically specified to be 'Open' is classed as Private.

As usual, though, much of this has been hyped up by the media, accusing him of interfering with politics. He is a U.K. Citizen & is a tax payer & as such, like it or not, he is legally entitled, by statute (No Taxation Without Representation) to have his views represented.

...

Exactly. The private letters of a person, even a public figure should remain private until such time as that person, or his/her estate sees fit to make them available to the public.

Of course, If he was tweeting or posting on Facebook, or posting in a public forum, that may be a different story.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat May 16, 2015 10:17 am

Good grief what's wrong with you all?

He's not a private person he's heir to the throne of a constitutional mionarchy that supposedly has no influence in political decisions. He should not be trying to influence the government of the day and any correspondence where he does we are entitled to know about. If he wants to write publicly fair enough but to try and unfluence in secret is wrong wrong wrong. If he gives up the throne then he can claim a right to privacy but if he wants to use his influence as the heir apparent then it is not a private matter.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sat May 16, 2015 11:13 am

Heir to the throne, maybe, but he still has the same rights as any other citizen. He is already involved in a great number of excellent causes, many of which wouldn't have got off the ground without his intervention - the Prince's Trust, for one. By lobbying Parliament he isn't laying down the rules. He isn't taking control of anything. He is merely making his views known in the same way that any of us have the right to. Furthermore, if you go back far enough through your ancestry the chances are that somewhere you will find that you are directly in line for the throne yourself, and as such you should not have the right to express yourself either.

Besides, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he passes on the accession when it comes to his time anyway. He'll probably abdicate to William.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat May 16, 2015 3:37 pm

FourPart;1479307 wrote: Heir to the throne, maybe, but he still has the same rights as any other citizen. He is already involved in a great number of excellent causes, many of which wouldn't have got off the ground without his intervention - the Prince's Trust, for one. By lobbying Parliament he isn't laying down the rules. He isn't taking control of anything. He is merely making his views known in the same way that any of us have the right to. Furthermore, if you go back far enough through your ancestry the chances are that somewhere you will find that you are directly in line for the throne yourself, and as such you should not have the right to express yourself either.

Besides, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he passes on the accession when it comes to his time anyway. He'll probably abdicate to William.

Bollocks, piffle balderdash. He has the rights his position give him. Did you get handed a large piece of the UK to use as your source of income? No I bet you didn't. Do you think a minister would even read your letter never mind reply in the most sickeningly obsequious terms. No I bet he wouldn't. He was abusing his position.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun May 17, 2015 7:27 am

gmc;1479342 wrote: Bollocks, piffle balderdash. He has the rights his position give him. Did you get handed a large piece of the UK to use as your source of income? No I bet you didn't. Do you think a minister would even read your letter never mind reply in the most sickeningly obsequious terms. No I bet he wouldn't. He was abusing his position.

Good answer! Highly paid welfare recipients, though I do get goofy when the Queen speaks her Xmas message.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun May 17, 2015 1:52 pm

AnneBoleyn;1479360 wrote: Good answer! Highly paid welfare recipients, though I do get goofy when the Queen speaks her Xmas message.

I never watch it as a matter of principle.

We would have had a republic back in the 1650's if it were not for the christian fundamentalists, come to think of it we did but they blew it.

Smaug · Post by **Smaug** » Mon May 18, 2015 5:45 am

AnneBoleyn;1479360 wrote: Good answer! Highly paid welfare recipients, though I do get goofy when the Queen speaks her Xmas message.

Love 'em or loathe 'em, they do bring in a fair revenue from tourism. About 10 years ago , there was a programme (T.V. documentary) on the Royals, and it was estimated that they cost approximately £60 million in state money, but made just over £100 million in tourism revenue! Tourists seem to like all that pomp. For me, as long as they "earn their keep" (pun intended!) I'm happy enough for them to continue.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon May 18, 2015 7:47 am

I love 'em and loathe 'em.

Smaug · Post by **Smaug** » Mon May 18, 2015 9:32 am

Must admit, I'm not sure on where I stand on Prince Charles' letters. You've both got valid points FourPart, GMC. Yes, he's entitled to privacy. Yes, I think that when he uses his "enhanced" social status to influence politicians/legislators, we have a right to know. Maybe he should refrain from politics/political comment and stick to social/green issues, as he has a reasonable track record there (if you can overlook his extensive use of helicopters...), and there would be no need to "snoop" or "censor" his correspondence.

Issue solved, maybe.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon May 18, 2015 9:32 am

I have very mixed feelings about the professional hangers on.

I wouldn't want their job for twice the money, just couldn't keep up the pretence of shaking people's hand and making small talk, for a way of life, 24 hours a day for a whole life time.

Given the choice I would throw them out, but find my chest grows bigger when I think of the dutiful way the Queen has gone about her life of duty......as she sees it.

They will adapt and slowly disappear, but not for a few years.

Smaug · Post by **Smaug** » Mon May 18, 2015 9:45 am

Bruv;1479384 wrote: I have very mixed feelings about the professional hangers on.

I wouldn't want their job for twice the money, just couldn't keep up the pretence of shaking people's hand and making small talk, for a way of life, 24 hours a day for a whole life time.

Given the choice I would throw them out, but find my chest grows bigger when I think of the dutiful way the Queen has gone about her life of duty......as she sees it.

They will adapt and slowly disappear, but not for a few years.

I think I would struggle to remain sane! Making polite, often meaningless smalltalk with people you wouldn't voluntarily spend any time with (arms dealers and dictators spring to mind here...), and possibly despise, all in the public eye! No thanks.

As for the Queen, she's been a good servant and ambassador for this country, in the main, Princess Dianna excepted! I've never known this country without "Lizzie", and I'll miss her when she's gone. Last of a dying breed.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed May 20, 2015 1:21 am

Smaug;1479385 wrote: I think I would struggle to remain sane! Making polite, often meaningless smalltalk with people you wouldn't voluntarily spend any time with (arms dealers and dictators spring to mind here...), and possibly despise, all in the public eye! No thanks.

As for the Queen, she's been a good servant and ambassador for this country, in the main, Princess Dianna excepted! I've never known this country without "Lizzie", and I'll miss her when she's gone. Last of a dying breed.

They have a choice they can walk away from it any time they like and probably have plenty of job opportunities. Other people get to choose between food or pay the bills with little prospect of getting out of the situation they are in. I've been unemployed and unable to find work maybe you need to have been thgere to understand what it's like.

As individuals I have no problem with them (I've actually met prince charles though I doubt he would remember the occasion) with what they represent I find little patience as to the tories and labour just fill the following blank spaces with a rant.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed May 20, 2015 2:15 am

Was Charles meeting and shaking Gerry Adams hand good, is that action political ?

Prince Charles Shakes Hands With Gerry Adams

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed May 20, 2015 4:15 am

Bruv;1479493 wrote: Was Charles meeting and shaking Gerry Adams hand good, is that action political ?

Prince Charles Shakes Hands With Gerry Adams

Of course it is political and at some point the killing has to stop and that means the decison not to pursue vengeance. Don't forget what started all this - the unionists were pretty nasty as well and it still goes on and won't stop until they stop building segregated schools even then it will take a couple of generations.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed May 20, 2015 8:06 am

Then why should we not hear from him openly, it doesn't alter anything if his ideas aren't acted on.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Wed May 20, 2015 10:12 am

Where would the Media be without them? That's one major industry they keep going.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed May 20, 2015 10:17 am

FourPart;1479510 wrote: Where would the Media be without them? That's one major industry they keep going.

Only because there is a market for them, they sell papers/magazines etc.

Smaug · Post by **Smaug** » Wed May 20, 2015 3:27 pm

gmc;1479489 wrote: They have a choice they can walk away from it any time they like and probably have plenty of job opportunities. Other people get to choose between food or pay the bills with little prospect of getting out of the situation they are in. I've been unemployed and unable to find work maybe you need to have been thgere to understand what it's like.

As individuals I have no problem with them (I've actually met prince charles though I doubt he would remember the occasion) with what they represent I find little patience as to the tories and labour just fill the following blank spaces with a rant.

I understand how you feel. The Royals were born into a life of luxury and privilege, something that's denied to most of us plebs, and the media over-expose them, thus "rubbing our noses in it", so to speak. However, they raise a lot of tourism revenue, and are not generally too bad (with 1 or 2 exceptions...) as "ambassadors" for the UK. I've never met a Royal, so I can't comment there, as the nearest thing to Royalty that I've met was Anthony Hopkins!!

Unfortunately, I also know how you feel about unemployment, and how hopeless it can feel, having been unemployed several times in my life, and am unemployed at the moment. Where are all these jobs then, in our "recovering" country?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed May 20, 2015 3:48 pm

Smaug;1479539 wrote: Where are all these jobs then, in our "recovering" country?

Sainsbury shelf stacking 20 hours a week ?

Smaug · Post by **Smaug** » Wed May 20, 2015 4:10 pm

Bruv;1479543 wrote: Sainsbury shelf stacking 20 hours a week ?

Of course, how foolish of me to overlook this "renaissance". How would we know how well our glorious "elite" were doing, if they didn't tell us!:yh_whistl