How To Get To Heaven When You Die

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How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

There are some religions out there who teach that there is no such thing as Hell. Some teach that hell is the only the grave. Some teach that hell is a place where souls are burned up in an instant. But that is not what the bible teaches. Today, I am going to demonstrate though the word of God that hell is a literal place of torment.

Where is hell?

Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

(KJV)

Hell is down. Most bible scholars believe that it is in the center of the earth.



Mt 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

(KJV)

Jesus's body remained on the earth, but His Spirit went to the heart of the earth, or center. Where is the heart of something located? In the center.

What is Hell?

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Hell is a prison. It is a prison for those who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. Hell is no laughing matter. There is no party in hell.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. {strange: Gr. other}

(KJV)

Lu 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

First of all notice that this man was not happy. It says that he was tormented in this FLAME. Hell is fire. It is an eternal flame that never goes out.

Mr 9:3 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend} Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend} Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: {offend...: or, cause thee to offend} Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

It says where their worm dieth not and the FIRE is NOT quenched. Hell is eternal torment by fire.

Hell is outer darkness. There is no light there. It is pitch black, forever.

Mt 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mt 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Lu 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Who goes to hell, and what is after hell?

Re 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

(KJV)

One day after everyone has been judged, hell and death will be cast into the lake of fire.

Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The devil is going to be cast into the lake of fire. Notice that it is a place of torment and that torment never ends.

Re 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

(KJV)

Those who reject Jesus Christ and accept the mark of the beast are going to the lake of fire.

Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

(KJV)

Those who reject Jesus Christ won't be found written in the book of life. They also will be cast into the lake of fire.

There is only one way out. That way is Jesus Christ.

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Who is God willing to save from hell and the lake of fire?

Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

How do we do this?

Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ro 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

The bible says that whosoever believeth on Him shall NOT be ashamed. Are you willing to accept Jesus Christ today to be your Savior? Don't be ashamed. Raise your hand right now if you want Jesus Christ to save you and someone will show you from the bible, God's word how you can know without a doubt that you will go to heaven when you die and that you won't have to go to this place called hell.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

God is willing to save ANYONE no matter what you have done, if you will simply call upon upon Jesus Christ to save you. Will you do that today?
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Post by FourPart »

If you're going to quote parables, at least get them right. Jonah was taken into the belly of a Great Fish. There is no mention of a whale, and a whale is not a fish.
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

That was what the Bible translators used for the word, not me.
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Post by FourPart »

xfrodobagginsx;1478388 wrote: That was what the Bible translators used for the word, not me.
Each quote I've seen of the phrase refers to a Great Fish.

This is just one example of how the Bible has been so corrupted over the years. It's one mass of Chinese Whispers. This is just one translation. Just think what it's like over translation of translations & interpretations of interpretations over thousands of years.
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

FourPart;1478389 wrote: Each quote I've seen of the phrase refers to a Great Fish.

This is just one example of how the Bible has been so corrupted over the years. It's one mass of Chinese Whispers. This is just one translation. Just think what it's like over translation of translations & interpretations of interpretations over thousands of years.


Actually, it's an example of a translation. The Bible has never been corrupted. It has been translated into English from Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. There is no corruption.
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Post by FourPart »

xfrodobagginsx;1478488 wrote: Actually, it's an example of a translation. The Bible has never been corrupted. It has been translated into English from Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic. There is no corruption.
Of course it's been corrupted. It's not only a matter of translation, it's a matter of interpretation. With each writing & re-writing it has a different twist put on things according to either how the writer understands things, or how he wanted to portray it - or a combination of both. Even in our own lifetimes we've seen different Popes make announcements of how the Bible has been misinterpreted, thus putting their own twist on it, ready for the next version to be released - and so it goes on.
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

FourPart;1478495 wrote: Of course it's been corrupted. It's not only a matter of translation, it's a matter of interpretation. With each writing & re-writing it has a different twist put on things according to either how the writer understands things, or how he wanted to portray it - or a combination of both. Even in our own lifetimes we've seen different Popes make announcements of how the Bible has been misinterpreted, thus putting their own twist on it, ready for the next version to be released - and so it goes on.


Again, it hasn't been rewritten. There isn't a shred of evidence of that. It has only been translated. The Dead Sea Scrolls prove you wrong. The Bible has been preserved.
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Post by FourPart »

xfrodobagginsx;1478723 wrote: Again, it hasn't been rewritten. There isn't a shred of evidence of that. It has only been translated. The Dead Sea Scrolls prove you wrong. The Bible has been preserved.
Even in English there are loads of different 'Versions', each of them with subtle differences. Over thousands of years of translations & interpretation, be they by honest misunderstanding or design, these subtle differences have changed into major differences.
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

FourPart;1478724 wrote: Even in English there are loads of different 'Versions', each of them with subtle differences. Over thousands of years of translations & interpretation, be they by honest misunderstanding or design, these subtle differences have changed into major differences.


A translation isn't the same as the manuscripts in the original languages. Yes there are translation differences, but you can compare them with the original language and research the meaning to see if it was improperly translated.
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

Christians Do go to heaven:

Mr 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

(KJV)

Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

People in heaven:

Re 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

(KJV)

Jesus Christ is going to rule and reign on the earth. The believers will be with Him on the earth at that time. Right now believer's go to heaven to be with the Lord Jesus Christ because that is where He is.

Jesus Christ is God:

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

(KJV)

Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John declares Him to be God:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

(KJV)

Jesus declares Himself God by calling Himself I am time and time again:

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

(KJV)

I am is God's name.

This prophecy of Jesus's first comming shows that He is God. Who has been from everlasting except God?

Mic 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. {everlasting: Heb. the days of eternity}

Jesus Knows all things proving that He is God:

Joh 16:30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

(KJV)
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Post by FourPart »

Of course their own book of Fairy Tales is going to spout about the "Happy Ever After"storyline, with fine details about some imaginary world where nobody has ever seen. You couldn't expect anything else. The idea of anything else would be like expecting the Daily Mail to support a Socialist Government.
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Post by halfway »

xfrodobagginsx;1477692 wrote: It's not ambiguous regarding salvation and the important doctrines. Some things are hidden for specific times by God. It does not contradict.


Thank you.
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Post by halfway »

Why are people so hateful towards others views?

Do you also hate gays, those of color, and even the opposite sex?

Shame.

Show some love to peoples beliefs.
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Post by FourPart »

halfway;1478900 wrote: Why are people so hateful towards others views?
See Pahu's thread where you asked the same thing where it had no relevance there either.



Do you also hate gays, those of color, and even the opposite sex?


Who is it that officially oppose Gay Rights / Gay Marriage, etc., and the true equality of Women? The Church. Sounds pretty hateful to me.

[quoteShame.
Absolutely.

Show some love to peoples beliefs.


All are born equal, but some are more equal than others?
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Post by halfway »

Why are people so hateful towards others views?

Do you also hate gays, those of color, and even the opposite sex?

Shame.

Show some love to peoples beliefs.
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Post by FourPart »

halfway;1478924 wrote: Why are people so hateful towards others views?

Do you also hate gays, those of color, and even the opposite sex?

Shame.

Show some love to peoples beliefs.
Interesting. I manage to quote you before you say it (again).
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

THIS VIDEO WILL EXPLAIN HOW THE NEW TESTIMENT OF THE BIBLE WAS CANONIZED (CAME TO BE):

WHOLE VIDEO:

Where Did the New Testament Come From? - Today's Christian Videos
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

The bible was written by God through 40 men in 3 languages over a 1,500 year period. These men lived in different parts of the world, some were rich, some were poor, some were educated, some were not, most didn't know each other, nor did they necessarily have access to the other's writings and yet it fits together as if it were written by one person, because it was written by God. It has no true errors or contradictions. There are countless prophecies which have been predicted and fulfilled perfectly in scripture. Many of these prophecies were written hundreds or even thousands of years before they were fulfilled.
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Post by FourPart »

Biblical "Prophecies" are the same as any Clairvoyant, Medium or even a Horoscope. Events are taken by the gullible & crowbarred to see meaning into them in exactly the same way as people see images in the clouds. There have been hundreds of thousands of claims of prophecies having been fulfilled somewhere or another, yet there are more claims of these prophecies having been fulfilled than there are prophecies - and the claims still continue. Every day another prophecy is fulfilled - again, because the last time it was fulfilled was a mistake - that wasn't actually the fulfilment of that prophecy - THIS is the REAL fulfillment. Then another. Just like Horoscopes they are written purposely for people to read into them what they want to see & interpret them in the way they want - or more to the point, in the way they are TOLD to interpret them. How many times has the Great Rapture been prophecised & fanatics thrown themselves off of buildings in the sure belief that the prophecy would be fulfilled & that they would remain unharmed. Did they ever remain unharmed as the prophecies said they would. What about the prophecy of the end of the world & the 2nd coming of the millenium? Nothing happed there either. Where are all these prophecies that have come true - documented ones, that is, not the words of the fairy tale book?
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FourPart;1479517 wrote: Biblical "Prophecies" are the same as any Clairvoyant, Medium or even a Horoscope. Events are taken by the gullible & crowbarred to see meaning into them in exactly the same way as people see images in the clouds. There have been hundreds of thousands of claims of prophecies having been fulfilled somewhere or another, yet there are more claims of these prophecies having been fulfilled than there are prophecies - and the claims still continue. Every day another prophecy is fulfilled - again, because the last time it was fulfilled was a mistake - that wasn't actually the fulfilment of that prophecy - THIS is the REAL fulfillment. Then another. Just like Horoscopes they are written purposely for people to read into them what they want to see & interpret them in the way they want - or more to the point, in the way they are TOLD to interpret them. How many times has the Great Rapture been prophecised & fanatics thrown themselves off of buildings in the sure belief that the prophecy would be fulfilled & that they would remain unharmed. Did they ever remain unharmed as the prophecies said they would. What about the prophecy of the end of the world & the 2nd coming of the millenium? Nothing happed there either. Where are all these prophecies that have come true - documented ones, that is, not the words of the fairy tale book?


It is said that if Buddha really did say everything attributed to him, he would have been speaking for several centuries....although some of Nostradamus's prophesies are a tad close for comfort. In my opinion, there ARE unexplainable things happening occasionally, but there is far more guff and hocus-pocus than substance, and this "muddies the waters" for understanding genuinely puzzling phenomena.
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Post by Smaug »

xfrodobagginsx;1479483 wrote: The bible was written by God through 40 men in 3 languages over a 1,500 year period. These men lived in different parts of the world, some were rich, some were poor, some were educated, some were not, most didn't know each other, nor did they necessarily have access to the other's writings and yet it fits together as if it were written by one person, because it was written by God. It has no true errors or contradictions. There are countless prophecies which have been predicted and fulfilled perfectly in scripture. Many of these prophecies were written hundreds or even thousands of years before they were fulfilled.


Actually, the Bible was written by mankind, using a variety of "media". If you had said "inspired by God", that would have been a little different, but it certainly wasn't written by him! Why have a dog, and bark yourself?
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

Smaug;1479549 wrote: Actually, the Bible was written by mankind, using a variety of "media". If you had said "inspired by God", that would have been a little different, but it certainly wasn't written by him! Why have a dog, and bark yourself?


While you are free to believe that, it's not supported by the actual evidence or the truth.
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Post by Smaug »

xfrodobagginsx;1479611 wrote: While you are free to believe that, it's not supported by the actual evidence or the truth.


And I will continue to do so, in the absence of any credible evidence to the contrary!
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Post by FourPart »

It's like the accused in a Courtroom being innocent until proven guilty.

No-one can prove the non existence of something that doesn't exist. That is the Prosecution.

No-one can prove the existence of something that doesn't exist. That is the defence.

Providing evidence to an alternative explanation is dismissed out of hand & it is considered (by the defence) not to be relevant to the case in hand.
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

Smaug;1479638 wrote: And I will continue to do so, in the absence of any credible evidence to the contrary!


The bible was written by God through 40 men in 3 languages over a 1,500 year period. These men lived in different parts of the world, some were rich, some were poor, some were educated, some were not, most didn't know each other, many of them didn’t have access to the other's writings and yet it fits together as if it were written by one person, because it was written by God. It has no true errors or contradictions. There are countless prophecies which have been predicted and fulfilled perfectly in scripture. Many of these prophecies were written hundreds or even thousands of years before they were fulfilled.

The Predictions that Jesus fulfilled in His coming were in the hundreds. The verse on the left is the prediction written hundreds of years before He came and the verse on the right is where it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ’s actual coming hundreds of years later as testified by the actual eyewitnesses. It is impossible that He is not Messiah, Savior of the world. The ONLY person...past, present or future...who could fulfill all these prophecies is Jesus Christ

Fulfilled Prophecy Tenakh/Hebrew

Scripture New Testament

Micah 5:2 His pre-existence John 1:1, 14

Genesis 3:15 Born of the seed of a woman Matthew 1:18

Genesis 12:3 Of the seed of Abraham Matthew 1:1-16

Genesis 12:3 All nations blessed by Abraham's seed Matthew 8:5, 10

Genesis 22:8 God would provide Himself a Lamb as an offering John 1:29

Genesis 49:10 From the tribe of Judah Matthew 1:1-3

Isaiah 9:6-7 Heir to the throne of David Matthew 1:1

Isaiah 9:6 Called "The mighty God, The everlasting Father" Matthew 1:23

Micah 5:2 Born in Bethlehem Matthew 2:1

Isaiah 7:14 Born of a virgin Matthew 1:18

Isaiah 7:14 His name called Immanuel, "God with us" Matthew 1:23

Psalm 2:7 Declared to be the Son of God Matthew 3:17

Malachi 4:5-6 His messenger before Him in spirit of Elijah Luke 1:17

Malachi 3:1 Preceded by a messenger to prepare His way Matthew 11:7-11

Isaiah 40:3 Messenger crying "Prepare ye the way of the Lord" Matthew 3:3

Deuteronomy 18:15 Would be a Prophet of the children of Israel Matthew 2:15

Hosea 11:1 Called out of Egypt Matthew 2:15

Jeremiah 31:15 Slaughter of the children Matthew2:18

Judges 13:5;Amos 2:11;Lam. 4:7 Would be a Nazarene Matthew 2:23

Isaiah 9:1-2 Brought light to Zabulon & Nephthalm, Galilee of the Gentiles Matthew 4:15

Psalm 72:10 Presented with gifts Matthew 2:1, 11

Isaiah 53:3 Rejected by His own Matthew 21:42; Mark 8:31,12:10; Luke 9:22,17:25 Psalm 118:22-23;

Isaiah 28:16He is the stone which the builders rejected which became the headstone Matthew 21:42; IPeter 2:7

Isaiah 8:14-15 A stone of stumbling to Israel I Peter 2:8

Zechariah 9:9 He entered Jerusalem as a king riding on an ass Matthew 21:5

Psalms 41:9 Betrayed by a friend John 13:21

Zechariah 11:12 Sold for 30 pieces of silver Matthew 26:15; Luke 22:5

Zechariah 11:12 The 30 pieces of silver given for the potter's field Matthew 27:9-10

Zechariah 11:13 The 30 pieces of silver thrown in the temple Matthew 27:5

Zechariah 13:7 Forsaken by His disciples Matthew 26:56

Psalm 35:11 Accused by false witnesses Matthew 26:60

Isaiah 53:7 Silent to accusations Matthew 27:14

Isaiah 35:5-6 Isaiah 29:18 Heal blind/deaf/lame/dumb; Matthew 11:5

Isaiah 61:Preached to the poor/brokenhearted/captives 1 Matthew 11:5

Micah 7:6 Came to bring a sword, not peace Matthew 10:34-35

Isaiah 53:4 He bore our sickness Matthew 8:16-17

Isaiah 50:6, 53:5 Spat upon, smitten and scourged Matthew 27:26, 30

Micah 5:1 Smitten on the cheek Matthew 27:30

Psalm 35:19 Hated without a cause Matthew 27:23

Isaiah 53:5 The sacrificial lamb John 1:29

Isaiah 42:6;Jeremiah 31:31-34Given for a covenant Romans 11:27/Galatians 3:17, 4:24/Hebrews 8:6, 8, 10; 10:16, 29; 12:24; 13:20

Isaiah 42:2-3 Would not strive or cry Mark 7:36

Isaiah 6:9-10 People would hear not and see not Matthew 13:14-15

Isaiah 29:13 People trust in traditions of men Matthew 15:9

Isaiah 29:13 People give God lip service Matthew 15:8

Isaiah 42:1 God delights in Him Matthew 3:17, 17:5

Isaiah 53:5 Wounded for our sins John 6:51

Isaiah 53:10-12 He bore the sins of many Mark 10:45

Daniel 9:26 Messiah not killed for Himself Matthew 20:28

Isaiah 55:5, 60:3,65:1; Malachi1:11;II Samuel 22:44-45; Psalm 2:7-8Gentiles flock to Him

Matthew 8:10

Isaiah 53:12 Crucified with criminals Matthew 27:35

Zechariah 12:10; His body was pierced Ps. 22:16 John 20:25, 27

Psalm 22:16 Thirsty during execution John 19:28

Psalm 69:21 Given vinegar and gall for thirst Matthew 27:34

Psalm 22:18 Soldiers gambled for his garment Matthew 27:35

Psalm 22:7-8 People mocked, "He trusted in God, let Him deliver him!" Matthew 27:43

Psalm 22:17 People sat there looking at Him Matthew 27:36

Psalm 22:1 Cried, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46

Amos 8:9 Darkness over the land Matthew 27:45

Psalm 34:20, Numbers 9:12 No bones broken John 19:33-36

Zechariah 12:10 Side pierced John 19:34

Isaiah 53:9 Buried with the rich Matthew 27:57, 60

Psalm 16:10-11; 49:15 Resurrected from the dead Mark 16:6

Psalm 110:4 Priest after the order of Melchizedek Hebrews 5:5-6; 6:20; 7:15-17

Psalm 68:18 Ascended to right hand of God Luke 24:51

Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto Him, "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make

thine enemies thy footstool Matt 22:44; Mark 12:36;, 16:19; Luke 20:42-43;

Acts 2:34-35; Hebrews 1:13

His coming glory Malachi 3:2-3 Luke 3:17

324 Messianic Prophecies

Gen. 3:15.....He will bruise Satan's head.....Heb. 2:14, 1 Jn. 3:18

Gen. 5:24....The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated....Mk. 6:19

Gen. 9:26,27...The God of Shem will be the Son of Shem...Lu.

3:36

Gen. 12:3...As Abraham's seed,will bless all nations...Acts.

3:25,26

Gen. 12:7...The Promise made to Abraham's Seed...Gal. 3:16

Gen. 14:18...A priest after Melchizedek...Heb. 6:20

Gen. 14:18........A King also........Heb. 7:2

Gen. 14:18...The Last Supper foreshadowed...Mt. 26:26-29

Gen. 17:19.......The Seed of Isaac.......Rom. 9:7

Gen. 22:8...The Lamb of God promised...Jn. 1:29

Gen. 22:18...As Isaac's seed, will bless all nations...Gal. 3:16

Gen.26:2-5..The Seed of Isaac promised as the

Redeemer..Heb.11:18

Gen. 49:10...The time of His coming...Lu. 2:1-7; Gal. 4:4

Gen. 49:10.......The Seed of Judah.......Lu. 3:33

Gen. 49:10......Called Shiloh or One Sent......Jn. 17:3

Gen. 49:10...To come before Judah lost identity...Jn. 11:47-52

Gen. 49:10...To Him shall the obedience of the people be...Jn.

10:16

Ex. 3:13,14........The Great "I Am".......Jn. 4:26

Ex. 12:5...A Lamb without blemish...1 Pet. 1:19

Ex. 12:13...The blood of the Lamb saves from wrath...Rom. 5:8

Ex. 12:21-27...Christ is our Passover...1 Cor. 5;7

Ex. 12:46...Not a bone of the Lamb to be broken...Jn. 19:31-36

Ex. 15:2...His exaltation predicted as Yeshua...Acts 7:55,56

Ex. 15:11...His Character-Holiness...Luke 1:35; Acts 4:27

Ex. 17:6...The Spiritual Rock of Israel...1 Cor. 10;4

Ex. 33:19...His Character-Merciful...Lu. 1:72

Lev.14:11..The leper cleansed-Sign to priesthood..Lu.5:12-14;

Acts 6:7

Lev.16:15-17...Prefigures Christ's once-for-all death...Heb. 9:7-14

Lev.16:27...Suffering outside the Camp...Mt. 27:33; Heb. 13:11,

12

Lev.17:11...The Blood-the life of the flesh...Mt. 26;28; Mk. 10:45

Lev.17:11...It is the blood that makes atonement...1 Jn. 3:14-18

Lev.23:36-37...The Drink-offering: "If any man thirst." ..Jn.

19:31-36

Num. 9:12...Not a bone of Him broken...John 19:31-36

Num. 21:9...The serpent on a pole-Christ lifted up...Jn. 3:14-18

Num. 24:17...Time: "I shall see him, but not now."...Gal. 4:4

Deut. 18:15..."This is of a truth that prophet."...Jn. 6:14

Deut. 18:15-16..."Had ye believed Moses, ye would believe

me."...Jn. 5:45-47

Deut. 18:18...Sent by the Father to speak His word...Jn. 8:28, 29

Deut. 18:19...Whoever will not hear must bear his sin...Jn. 12:15,

Deut. 21:23...Cursed is he that hangs on a tree...Gal. 3:10-13

Ruth 4:4-9...Christ, our kinsman, has redeemed us...Eph. 1:3-7

1 Sam. 2:10...Shall be an anointed King to the Lord...Mt. 28:18;

Jn. 12:15

2 Sam. 7:12...David's Seed...Mt. 1:1

2 Sam. 7:14a...The Son of God... Lu. 1:32

2 Sam. 7:16...David's house established forever...Lu. 3:31; Rev.

22:16

2 Ki. 2:11...The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated...Lu. 24:51

1 Chr. 17:11...David's Seed...Mt. 1:1; 9:27

1 Chr. 17:12, 13a...To reign on David's throne forever...Lu. 1:32,

33

1 Chr. 17:13a..."I will be His Father, He...my Son."...Heb. 1:5

Job 19:23-27...The Resurrection predicted...Jn. 5:24-29

Psa. 2:1-3...The enmity of kings foreordained...Acts 4:25-28
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

Psa. 2:2...To own the title, Anointed (Christ)...Acts 2:36

Ps. 2:6...His Character-Holiness...Jn. 8:46; Rev. 3:7

Ps. 2:6...To own the title King...Mt. 2:2

Ps. 2:7...Declared the Beloved Son...Mt. 3;17

Psa. 2:7, 8...The Crucifixion and Resurrection intimated...Acts

13:29-33

Psa. 2:12...Life comes through faith in Him...Jn. 20:31

Psa. 8:2...The mouths of babes perfect His praise...Mt. 21:16

Psa. 8:5, 6...His humiliation and exaltation...Lu. 24:50-53; 1 Cor.

15:27

Psa. 16:10...Was not to see corruption...Acts 2:31

Psa. 16:9-11...Was to arise from the dead...Jn. 20:9

Psa. 17;15...The resurrection predicted...Lu. 24:6

Psa. 22:1...Forsaken because of sins of others...2 Cor. 5:21

Psa. 22:1...Words spoken from Calvary, "My God..." Mk.

15:34

Psa. 22:2...Darkness upon Calvary...Mt. 27:45

Psa. 22:7...They shoot out the lip and shake the head...Mt.

27:39

Psa. 22:8.."He trusted in God, let Him deliver Him"...Mt.

27:43

Psa. 22:9......Born the Saviour......Lu. 2:7

Psa. 22:14...Died of a broken (ruptured)heart...Jn. 19:34

Psa. 22:14,15...Suffered agony on Calvary...Mk. 15:34-37

Psa. 22:15........He thirsted........Jn. 19:28

Psa. 22:16...They pierced His hands and His feet....Jn.

19:34,37;20:27

Psa. 22:17,18...Stripped Him before the stares of men...Lu.

23:34,35

Psa. 22:18.....They parted His garments.....Jn. 19:23,24

Psa. 22:20,21...He committed Himself to God...Lu.23:46

Psa. 22:20,21..Satanic power bruising the Redeemer's

heel..Heb. 2:14

Psa. 22:22.....His Resurrection declared.....Jn. 20:17

Psa. 22:27...He shall be the governor of the nations...Col 1:16

Psa. 22:31......"It is finished"......Jn. 19:30

Psa. 23:1...."I am the Good Shephard"....Jn. 10:11

Psa. 24:3......His exaltation predicted......Acts 1:11; Phil. 2:9

Psa. 30:3......His resurrection predicted......Acts 2:32

Psa. 31:5..."Into thy hands I commit my spirit"...Lu. 23:46

Psa. 31:11...His acquaintances fled from Him...Mk. 14:50

Psa. 31:13...They took counsel to put Him to death...Jn. 11:53

Psa. 31:14,15..." He trusted in God, let Him deliver him"...Mt.

27:43

Psa. 34:20.....Not a bone of Him broken.....Jn 19:31-36

Psa. 35:11....False witnesses rose up against Him....Mt. 26:59

Psa. 35:19...He was hated without a cause...Jn. 15:25

Psa. 38:11.....His friends stood afar off.....Lu. 23:49

Psa. 40:2-5...The joy of His resurrection predicted...Jn. 20:20

Psa. 40:6-8....His delight-the will of the Father....Jn. 4:34

Psa. 40:9....He was to preach the Righteousness in Israel....Mt.

4:17

Psa. 40:14...Confronted by adversaries in the Garden...Jn. 18:4-6

Psa. 41:9.....Betrayed by a familiar friend.....Jn. 13:18

Psa. 45:2...Words of Grace come from His lips...Lu. 4:22

Psa. 45:6...To own the title, God or Elohim...Heb. 1:8

Psa. 45:7...A special anointing by the Holy Spirit...Mt.3:16;

Heb.1:9

Psa. 45:7,8...Called the Christ (Messiah or Anointed)...Lu. 2:11

Psa. 55:12-14...Betrayed by a friend, not an enemy...Jn. 13:18

Psa. 55:15...Unrepentant death of the Betrayer...Mt. 27:3-5; Acts

1:16-19

Psa. 68:18...To give gifts to men...Eph. 4:7-16

Psa. 68:18...Ascended into Heaven...Lu. 24:51

Psa. 69:4...Hated without a cause...Jn. 15:25

Psa. 69:8...A stranger to own brethren...Lu. 8;20,21

Psa. 69:9...Zealous for the Lord's House...Jn. 2:17

Psa. 69:14-20...Messiah's anguish of soul before crucifixion...Mt.

26:36-45

Psa. 69:20..."My soul is exceeding sorrowful."...Mt. 26:38

Psa. 69:21...Given vinegar in thirst...Mt. 27:34

Psa. 69:26...The Saviour given and smitten by God...Jn. 17:4;

18:11

Psa. 72:10,11...Great persons were to visit Him...Mt. 2:1-11

Psa. 72:16...The corn of wheat to fall into the Ground...Jn. 12:24

Psa. 72:17...His name, Yinon, will produce offspring...Jn. 1:12,13

Psa. 72:17...All nations shall be blessed by Him...Acts 2:11,12,41

Psa. 78:1.2...He would teach in parables...Mt. 13:34-35

Psa. 78:2b...To speak the Wisdom of God with authority...Mt.

7:29

Psa. 88:8...They stood afar off and watched...Lu. 23:49

Psa. 89:27...Emmanuel to be higher than earthly kings...Lu.

1:32,33

Psa. 89:35-37...David's Seed, throne, kingdom endure

forever...Lu. 1:32,33

Psa. 89:36-37...His character-Faithfulness...Rev. 1:5

Psa. 90:2...He is from everlasting (Micah 5:2)...Jn. 1:1

Psa. 91:11,12...Identified as Messianic; used to tempt Christ...Lu.

4;10,11

Psa. 97:9...His exaltation predicted...Acts 1:11;Eph. 1:20

Psa. 100:5...His character-Goodness...Mt. 19:16,17

Psa. 102:1-11...The Suffering and Reproach of Calvary...Jn.

21:16-30

Psa. 102:25-27...Messiah is the Preexistent Son...Heb. 1:10-12

Psa. 109:25...Ridiculed...Mt. 27:39

Psa. 110:1...Son of David...Mt. 22:43

Psa. 110:1...To ascend to the right-hand of the Father...Mk.16:19

Psa. 110:1...David's son called Lord...Mt. 22:44,45

Psa. 110:4...A priest after Melchizedek's order...Heb. 6:20

Psa. 112:4...His character-Compassionate, Gracious, et al... Mt.

9;36

Psa. 118:17,18...Messiah's Resurrection assured...Lu. 24:5-7;1

Cor. 15:20

Psa. 118:22,23...The rejected stone is Head of the corner...Mt.

21:42,43

Psa. 118:26a...The Blessed One presented to Israel...Mt. 21:9

Psa. 118:26b...To come while Temple standing...Mt. 21;12-15

Psa. 132:11...The Seed of David(the fruit of His Body)...Lu. 1:32

Psa. 138:1-6...The supremacy of David's Seed amazes kings... Mt.

2:2-6

Psa. 147:3,6...The earthly ministry of Christ described...Lu. 4:18

Psa. 1:23...He will send the Spirit of God... Jn. 16;7

Song. 5;16...The altogether lovely One...Jn. 1:17

Isa. 6:1...When Isaiah saw His glory... Jn. 12:40-41

Isa. 6:9-10...Parables fall on deaf ears...Mt. 13:13-15

Isa. 6:9-12...Blinded to Christ and deaf to His words...Acts. 28:23-

29

Isa. 7:14...To be born of a virgin...Lu. 1:35

Isa. 7:14...To be Emmanuel-God with us... Mt. 1:18-23

Isa. 8:8...Called Emmanuel...Mt. 28:20

Isa. 8:14...A stone of stumbling, a Rock of offense... 1 Pet. 2:8

Isa. 9:1,2...His ministry to begin in Galilee...Mt. 4:12-17

Isa. 9:6...A child born-Humanity...Lu. 1:31

Isa. 9:6...A Son given-Deity...Lu. 1:32; Jn. 1;14; 1 Tim. 3:16

Isa. 9:6...Declared to be the Son of God with power... Rom. 1:3,4

Isa. 9:6...The Wonderful One, Peleh...Lu. 4:22

Isa. 9:6...The Counsellor, Yaatz...Mt. 13:54

Isa. 9:6...The Mighty God, El Gibor...Mt. 11:20

Isa. 9:6...The Everlasting Father, Avi Adth...Jn. 8:58

Isa. 9:6...The Prince of Peace, Sar Shalom...Jn . 16:33

Isa. 9:7...To establish an everlasting kingdom...Lu. 1:32-33

Isa. 9:7...His Character-Just...Jn. 5:30

Isa. 9:7...No end to his Government, Throne, and Peace...Lu.

1:32-33

Isa. 11:1...Called a Nazarene-the Branch, Netzer...Mt. 2:23

Isa. 11:1...A rod out of Jesse-Son of Jesse...Lu. 3:23,32

Isa. 11:2...The anointed One by the Spirit...Mt. 3;16,17

Isa. 11:2...His Character-Wisdom, Understanding, et al....Jn. 4:4-

26

Isa. 11:4...His Character-Truth...Jn. 14:6

Isa. 11:10...The Gentiles seek Him...Jn. 12:18-21

Isa. 12:2...Called Jesus-Yeshua...Mt. 1:21

Isa. 25:8...The Resurrection predicted...I Cor. 15:54

Isa. 26:19...His power of Resurrection predicted...Jn. 11:43,44

Isa. 28:16...The Messiah is the precious corner stone...Acts

4:11,12

Isa. 29:13...He indicated hypocritical obedience to His Word...Mt.

15:7-9

Isa. 29:14...The wise are confounded by the Word...I Cor. 1:18-31

Isa. 32:2...A Refuge-A man shall be a hiding place...Mt. 23:37

Isa. 35:4...He will come and save you...Mt. 1:21

Isa. 35:5...To have a ministry of miracles...Mt. 11:4-6

Isa. 40:3,4...Preceded by forerunner...Jn. 1:23

Isa. 40:9..."Behold your God."...Jn. 1:36;19:14

Isa. 40:11...A shepherd-compassionatelife-giver...Jn. 10:10-18

Isa. 42:1-4...The Servant-as a faithful, patient redeemer...

Mt.12:18-21
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Posts: 2545
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by xfrodobagginsx »

Isa. 42:2...Meek and lowly... Mt. 11:28-30

Isa. 42:3...He brings hope for the hopeless... Jn. 4

Isa. 42:4...The nations shall wait on His teachings... Jn. 12:20-26

Isa. 42:6...The Light (salvation) of the Gentiles...Lu. 2:32

Isa. 42:1,6...His is a Worldwide compassion... Mt. 28:19,20

Isa. 42:7...Blind eyes opened... Jn. 9:25-38

Isa. 43:11...He is the only Saviour... Acts. 4:12

Isa. 44:3...He will send the Spirit of God... Jn. 16:7,13

Isa. 45:23...He will be the Judge... Jn. 5:22;Rom. 14:11

Isa. 48:12...The First and the Last...Jn. 1:30;Rev. 1:8,17

Isa. 48:17...He came as a Teacher...Jn. 3:2

Isa. 49:1...Called from the womb-His humanity...Mt. 1:18

Isa. 49:5...A Servant from the womb...Lu. 1:31;Phil. 2:7

Isa. 49:6...He is Salvation for Israel...Lu. 2:29-32

Isa. 49:6...He is the Light of the Gentiles...Acts 13:47

Isa. 49:6...He is Salvation unto the ends of the earth... Acts 15:7-

18

Isa. 49:7...He is despised of the Nation... Jn. 8:48-49

Isa. 50:3...Heaven is clothed in black at His humiliation... Lu.

23:44,45

Isa. 50:4...He is a learned counsellor for the weary... Mt. 11:28,29

Isa. 50:5...The Servant bound willingly to obedience... Mt. 26:39

Isa. 50:6a..."I gave my back to the smiters."... Mt. 27:26

Isa. 50:6b...He was smitten on the cheeks... Mt. 26:67

Isa. 50:6c...He was spat upon... Mt. 27:30

Isa. 52:7...To publish good tidings of peace... Lu. 4:14,15

Isa. 52:13...The Servant exalted...Acts 1:8-11; Eph. 1:19-22

Isa. 52:13...Behold, My Servant... Mt. 17:5; Phil. 2:5-8

Isa. 52:14...The Servant shockingly abused... Lu. 18:31-34; Mt.

26:67,68

Isa. 52:15...Nations startled by message of the Servant... Rom.

15:18-21

Isa. 52:15...His blood shed to make atonement for all... Rev. 1:5

Isa. 53:1...His people would not believe Him... Jn. 12:37-38

Isa. 53:2a...He would grow up in a poor family.... Lu. 2:7

Isa. 53:2b...Appearance of an ordinary man... Phil. 2:7-8

Isa. 53:3a...Despised.... Lu. 4:28-29

Isa. 53:3b...Rejected... Mt. 27:21-23

Isa. 53:3c...Great sorrow and grief... Lu. 19:41-42

Isa. 53:3d...Men hide from being associated with Him... Mk.

14:50-52

Isa. 53:4a...He would have a healing ministry... Lu. 6:17-19

Isa. 53:4b...He would bear the sins of the world... 1 Pet. 2:24

Isa. 53:4c...Thought to be cursed by God... Mt. 27:41-43

Isa. 53:5a...Bears penalty for mankind's transgressions... Lu. 23:33

Isa. 53:5b...His sacrifice would provide peace between man and

God... Col. 1:20

Isa. 53:5c...His back would be whipped... Mt. 27:26

Isa. 53:6a...He would be the sin-bearer for all mankind...Gal. 1:4

Isa. 53:6b...God's will that He bear sin for all mankind... 1 Jn.

4:10

Isa. 53:7a...Oppressed and afflicted... Mt. 27:27-31

Isa. 53:7b...Silent before his accusers... Mt. 27:12-14

Isa. 53:7c...Sacrificial lamb... Jn. 1:29

Isa. 53:8a...Confined and persecuted... Mt. 26:47-27:31

Isa. 53:8b...He would be judged... Jn. 18:13-22

Isa. 53:8c...Killed.... Mt. 27:35

Isa. 53:8d...Dies for the sins of the world... 1 Jn. 2:2

Isa. 53:9a...Buried in a rich man's grave... Mt. 27:57

Isa. 53:9b...Innocent and had done no violence... Mk. 15:3

Isa. 53:9c...No deceit in his mouth... Jn. 18:38

Isa. 53:10a...God's will that He die for mankind... Jn. 18:11

Isa. 53:10b...An offering for sin... Mt. 20:28

Isa. 53:10c...Resurrected and live forever.... Mk. 16:16

Isa. 53:10d...He would prosper... Jn. 17:1-5

Isa. 53:11a...God fully satisfied with His suffering... Jn. 12:27

Isa. 53:11b...God's servant... Rom. 5:18-19

Isa. 53:11c...He would justify man before God... Rom. 5:8-9

Isa. 53:11d...The sin-bearer for all mankind... Heb. 9:28

Isa. 53:12a...Exalted by God because of his sacrifice... Mt. 28:18

Isa. 53:12b...He would give up his life to save mankind... Lu.

23:46

Isa. 53:12c...Grouped with criminals... Lu. 23:32

Isa. 53:12d...Sin-bearer for all mankind... 2 Cor. 5:21

Isa. 53:12e...Intercede to God in behalf of mankind... Lu. 23:34

Isa. 55:3...Resurrected by God... Acts 13:34

Isa. 55:4...A witness... Jn. 18:37

Isa. 59:15-16a...He would come to provide salvation... Jn. 6:40

Isa. 59:15-16b...Intercessor between man and God... Mt. 10:32

Isa. 59:20...He would come to Zion as their Redeemer... Lu. 2:38

Isa. 61:1-2a...The Spirit of God upon him... Mt. 3:16-17

Isa. 61:1-2b...The Messiah would preach the good news... Lu.

4:17-21

Isa. 61:1-2c...Provide freedom from the bondage of sin and

death... Jn. 8:31-32

Isa. 61:1-2...Proclaim a period of grace... Jn. 5:24

Jer.23:5-6a...Descendant of David...Lu. 3:23-31

Jer. 23:5-6b...The Messiah would be God... Jn. 13:13

Jer. 23:5-6c...The Messiah would be both God and Man... 1 Tim.

3:16

Jer. 31:22...Born of a virgin... Mt. 1:18-20

Jer. 31:31...The Messiah would be the new covenant... Mt. 26:28

Jer. 33:14-15...Descendant of David... Lu. 3:23-31

Eze.17:22-24...Descendant of David... Lk. 3:23-31

Eze.34:23-24...Descendant of David... Mt. 1:1

Dan. 7:13-14a...He would ascend into heaven... Acts 1:9-11

Dan. 7:13-14b...Highly exalted... Eph. 1:20-22

Dan. 7:13-14c...His dominion would be everlasting... Lu. 1:31-33

Dan. 9:24a...To make an end to sins... Gal. 1:3-5

Dan. 9:24b...He would be holy... Lu. 1:35

Dan. 9:25...Announced to his people 483 years, to the exact day,

after the decree to rebuild the city of Jerusalem... Jn. 12:12-13

Dan. 9:26a...Killed... Mt. 27:35

Dan. 9:26b...Die for the sins of the world... Heb. 2:9

Dan. 9:26c...Killed before the destruction of the temple... Mt.

27:50-51

Dan. 10:5-6...Messiah in a glorified state... Rev. 1:13-16

Hos. 13:14...He would defeat death... 1 Cor. 15:55-57

Joel 2:32...Offer salvation to all mankind... Rom. 10:12-13

Mic. 5:2a...Born in Bethlehem... Mt. 2:1-2

Mic. 5:2b...God's servant... Jn. 15:10

Mic. 5:2c...From everlasting... Jn. 8:58

Hag. 2:6-9...He would visit the second Temple... Lu. 2:27-32

Hag. 2:23...Descendant of Zerubbabel... Lu. 3:23-27

Zech. 3:8...God's servant... Jn. 17:4

Zech. 6:12-13...Priest and King... Heb. 8:1

Zech. 9:9a...Greeted with rejoicing in Jerusalem... Mt. 21:8-10

Zech. 9:9b...Beheld as King... Jn. 12:12-13

Zech. 9:9c...The Messiah would be just... Jn. 5:30

Zech. 9:9d...The Messiah would bring salvation... Luke 19:10

Zech. 9:9e...The Messiah would be humble... Mt. 11:29

Zech. 9:9f...Presented to Jerusalem riding on a donkey... Mt. 21:6-

9

Zech. 10:4...The cornerstone... Eph. 2:20

Zech. 11:4-6a...At His coming, Israel to have unfit leaders... Mt.

23:1-4

Zech. 11:4-6b...Rejection causes God to remove His protection..

Lu. 19:41-44

Zech. 11:4-6c...Rejected in favor of another king... Jn. 19:13-15

Zech. 11:7...Ministry to "poor," the believing remnant... Mt. 9:35-

36

Zech. 11:8a...Unbelief forces Messiah to reject them... Mt. 23:33

Zech. 11:8b...Despised... Mt. 27:20

Zech. 11:9...Stops ministering to the those who rejected Him...

Mt. 13:10-11

Zech. 11:10-11a...Rejection causes God to remove protection...

Lu. 19:41-44

Zech. 11:10-11b...The Messiah would be God... Jn. 14:7

Zech. 11:12-13a...Betrayed for thirty pieces of silver... Mt. 26:14-

15

Zech. 11:12-13b...Rejected... Mt. 26:14-15

Zech. 11:12-13c...Thirty pieces of silver thrown into the house of

the Lord... Mt. 27:3-5

Zech. 11:12-13d...The Messiah would be God... Jn. 12:45

Zech. 12:10a...The Messiah's body would be pierced... Jn. 19:34-

37

Zech. 12:10b...The Messiah would be both God and man... Jn.

10:30

Zech. 12:10c...The Messiah would be rejected... Jn. 1:11

Zech. 13:7a...God's will He die for mankind... Jn. 18:11

Zech. 13:7b...A violent death... Mt. 27:35

Zech. 13:7c...Both God and man.. Jn. 14:9

Zech. 13:7d...Israel scattered as a result of rejecting Him... Mt.

26:31-56

Mal. 3:1a...Messenger to prepare the way for Messiah... Mt. 11:10

Mal. 3:1b...Sudden appearance at the temple... Mk. 11:15-16

Mal. 3:1c...Messenger of the new covenant... Lu. 4:43

Mal. 4:5...Forerunner in the spirit of Elijah... Mt. 3:1-2

Mal. 4:6...Forerunner would turn many to righteousness... Lu.1:16-17
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Smaug
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How To Get To Heaven When You Die

Post by Smaug »

With so many "word of mouth" accounts, especially in the "old testament" handed from father to son over so many years, and so many re-writes and translations, how can anyone possibly be sure? I can see that you believe the Bible implicitly, and without question. I am a natural sceptic, and not inclined to take things wholly at face value, especially a work that has been "edited"many times over the centuries, by many people. I'm quite sure, however, that there WAS a great flood in our Earth's history; too many legends from too many cultures to ignore the possibility. Even the Chinese mention a great flood survivor called Nu' Ar. Noah? The same applies to Jesus AND Mohammed, almost "rock star" famous in their time. I think these people may well have existed, and followed their "calling" with devotion, but the Bible, to me, remains an enigma.
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Post by FourPart »

You have far too much time on your hands (that is, unless you just copied & pasted, of course).

Obviously there was no way I going going through all that, but even from the first few I saw, they were all typical Horoscope / Scam Medium lines, such as "You don't know someone called John do you?". If the answer is Yes, then that's proof that the 'message' is from John (and obviously the same 'John', and if the answer is No, then the response would either be something like "No I didn't think so - just a minute - No, I think it's something like Jane. Do you know a Jane?" (etc). The whole lot is nothing more than flim-slam.

Furthermore, apart from in the Bible, there are no records of the birth of Jesus, which considering there was supposed to have been a census (of which there is also no record) is a bit surprising. Furthermore, no census for tax purposes would require people to return to their place of birth. A good proportion wouldn't even KNOW their place of birth, and it would be of no interest to the Roman exchequer - all they wanted to know it who owed them money & where they were at the time so that they could collect it. The dates of things were all flipped around to fit in with local folklore. There are many religions which believe in Jesus - many of which have totally different dates for 'Christmas'. As for that "He shall receive gifts". Well, WOW!! How many new born babys are NOT showered with gifts ffs.

Plus, 'Virgin' in the sexual sense is only a fairly recent interpretation. It originally meant simply "Pure of Mind".

Personally, I feel The Life Of Brian bears far more similarities to the true story than you care to admit, and is FAR more plausible.
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

FourPart;1479722 wrote: You have far too much time on your hands (that is, unless you just copied & pasted, of course).

Obviously there was no way I going going through all that, but even from the first few I saw, they were all typical Horoscope / Scam Medium lines, such as "You don't know someone called John do you?". If the answer is Yes, then that's proof that the 'message' is from John (and obviously the same 'John', and if the answer is No, then the response would either be something like "No I didn't think so - just a minute - No, I think it's something like Jane. Do you know a Jane?" (etc). The whole lot is nothing more than flim-slam.

Furthermore, apart from in the Bible, there are no records of the birth of Jesus, which considering there was supposed to have been a census (of which there is also no record) is a bit surprising. Furthermore, no census for tax purposes would require people to return to their place of birth. A good proportion wouldn't even KNOW their place of birth, and it would be of no interest to the Roman exchequer - all they wanted to know it who owed them money & where they were at the time so that they could collect it. The dates of things were all flipped around to fit in with local folklore. There are many religions which believe in Jesus - many of which have totally different dates for 'Christmas'. As for that "He shall receive gifts". Well, WOW!! How many new born babys are NOT showered with gifts ffs.

Plus, 'Virgin' in the sexual sense is only a fairly recent interpretation. It originally meant simply "Pure of Mind".

Personally, I feel The Life Of Brian bears far more similarities to the true story than you care to admit, and is FAR more plausible.


You weren't expected to read it all. The point is that the evidence is overwhelming. All of your accusations are not based on fact or reality. The fact is that He was predicted hundreds of years before His birth, then fulfilled hundreds of prophecies in His lifetime.
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Post by halfway »

Amen.
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Post by FourPart »

xfrodobagginsx;1479801 wrote: You weren't expected to read it all. The point is that the evidence is overwhelming. All of your accusations are not based on fact or reality. The fact is that He was predicted hundreds of years before His birth, then fulfilled hundreds of prophecies in His lifetime.


'A' Prophet was predicted. There's nothing, apart from hearsay, to say that's who it was refering to.

"He's not the Messiah - he's a very naughty boy!!"
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

FourPart;1479849 wrote: 'A' Prophet was predicted. There's nothing, apart from hearsay, to say that's who it was refering to.

"He's not the Messiah - he's a very naughty boy!!"


He is the Messiah. He fulfilled hundreds of prophecies.
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Post by FourPart »

xfrodobagginsx;1479976 wrote: He is the Messiah. He fulfilled hundreds of prophecies.
So say those who tell the stories.

So say those who change events to fit the required parameters.

In reality, an unmarried woman who got pregant would have been stoned, despite any claims to having been a virgin.

There are none of those 'fulfilled prophecies' which could not have been equally attributed to plenty of others before, since, or yet to come.
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

FourPart;1479998 wrote: So say those who tell the stories.

So say those who change events to fit the required parameters.

In reality, an unmarried woman who got pregant would have been stoned, despite any claims to having been a virgin.

There are none of those 'fulfilled prophecies' which could not have been equally attributed to plenty of others before, since, or yet to come.


Many times, people didn't turn people in for these offences. Also, there were hundreds of other signs that accompanied, not just a claim of a virgin conceiving.
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Post by FourPart »

xfrodobagginsx;1480197 wrote: Many times, people didn't turn people in for these offences. Also, there were hundreds of other signs that accompanied, not just a claim of a virgin conceiving.
There is no physical record whatsoever of his birth though - just that of the Bible.
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

FourPart;1480231 wrote: There is no physical record whatsoever of his birth though - just that of the Bible.


There is the testimony of those who were eyewitnesses and knew Him personally. No one objected to any of the eyewitness testimony.



I'm sure there's no physical record of George Washington's Birth either, but I bet you don't doubt his existence or the eyewitness history recorded of him by the historians of his day.
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Post by FourPart »

xfrodobagginsx;1480309 wrote: There is the testimony of those who were eyewitnesses and knew Him personally. No one objected to any of the eyewitness testimony.



I'm sure there's no physical record of George Washington's Birth either, but I bet you don't doubt his existence or the eyewitness history recorded of him by the historians of his day.
All of the 'Testimonies' come from the same source & apart from records of his crucifixion there is no physical record of his existence, yet the Biblical story tells of a non-existent census. As far as Washington is concerned, there's no shortage of physical evidence to substantiate his existence. The Bible is full of 'testimonies' of things taken down verbatim, when no-one else was there. The Temptation & the giving of the 10 Commandments, for instance. The Church preaches these sort of incidents as absolute facts, because they're written there in the Bible, but they don't question how anyone came to know exactly what was said when no-one else was there.
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

FourPart;1480338 wrote: All of the 'Testimonies' come from the same source & apart from records of his crucifixion there is no physical record of his existence, yet the Biblical story tells of a non-existent census. As far as Washington is concerned, there's no shortage of physical evidence to substantiate his existence. The Bible is full of 'testimonies' of things taken down verbatim, when no-one else was there. The Temptation & the giving of the 10 Commandments, for instance. The Church preaches these sort of incidents as absolute facts, because they're written there in the Bible, but they don't question how anyone came to know exactly what was said when no-one else was there.


They do NOT come from the same source. They are different eyewitness accounts AND there are lots of historical writings from the historians of His time of Him. So you are kidding yourself. I have already posted them many times, but I can again if you would like. You can't deny history. It's there, stop ignoring it.
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Post by FourPart »

xfrodobagginsx;1480442 wrote: They do NOT come from the same source. They are different eyewitness accounts AND there are lots of historical writings from the historians of His time of Him. So you are kidding yourself. I have already posted them many times, but I can again if you would like. You can't deny history. It's there, stop ignoring it.
I consider the Bible as a single source. It is one book. Written, re-written & translated countless times by people blindly following dogma & their interpretation on things. How many people of his day could read or write in order for these testimonies to have been recorded? Where are these original testimonies. I emphasise, "ORIGINAL", not stories handed down by word of mouth from generation to generation.

When I read a news story I don't blindly accept something, say in the Daily Mail. I know that will have a very Right Wing Bias on it, so I will look for the story from other sources & gradually it shows how things may have been deliberately omitted, or hyped in order to put across the wrong impression. This is exactly the way the Bible works, with its avid readers being like the readers of the Daily Mail, blindly taking everything they see (if that's not an oxymoron) as absolute fact.

All historians have able to prove, at best, is that certain people may have existed. They have proved nothing to affirm such actions or anything that was said or done. The Bible is NOT history. It is Folklore.
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

FourPart;1480443 wrote: I consider the Bible as a single source. It is one book. Written, re-written & translated countless times by people blindly following dogma & their interpretation on things. How many people of his day could read or write in order for these testimonies to have been recorded? Where are these original testimonies. I emphasise, "ORIGINAL", not stories handed down by word of mouth from generation to generation.

The Bible is NOT a single source, except for the fact that it was inspired by God. So, the only way you can truly consider it a single source is if you believe it was truly inspired by God. Do you? It is 66 books, placed together in one. It was NEVER rewritten. Translated, yet we still have the manuscripts in the original languages to compare it to so we know it hasn't been changed. Also, the Dead Sea Scrolls prove that the scriptures were preserved. God preserved His word.

When I read a news story I don't blindly accept something, say in the Daily Mail. I know that will have a very Right Wing Bias on it, so I will look for the story from other sources & gradually it shows how things may have been deliberately omitted, or hyped in order to put across the wrong impression. This is exactly the way the Bible works, with its avid readers being like the readers of the Daily Mail, blindly taking everything they see (if that's not an oxymoron) as absolute fact.

I don't blindly accept things either. I'm glad that the evidence is on the side of the Bible being true. Left wing bias is 90% of the media, so I am not feeling sorry for any Right Wing Bias you might perceive. The Liberals are the KINGS of deliberately omitting information. They are more based on emotion rather than Logic. The Bible is an Amazing Book and there is no other book like it. It is impossible for it to fit together as it does, since it was written by 40 different people over a 1600 year period, in different parts of the world, in different walks of life without God's direction. It's not blind, it's backed by the evidence.

All historians have able to prove, at best, is that certain people may have existed. They have proved nothing to affirm such actions or anything that was said or done. The Bible is NOT history. It is Folklore.

The Bible is History and is backed up by Secular Historians. The facts are on my side, not yours. I can prove it.






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Post by FourPart »

The Bible is History and is backed up by Secular Historians. The facts are on my side, not yours. I can prove it.


That much says it all, really. SECULAR - not HISTORIANS. Secular means that they have their own biased agenda & can therefore be disregarded. What they put forward are NOT facts. They are opinions. They can prove nothing. They have never proved anything. Therefore, if they are unable to prove anything, I very much doubt if you can. You claim you can prove it. Well, go on - prove it.
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

FourPart;1480549 wrote: That much says it all, really. SECULAR - not HISTORIANS. Secular means that they have their own biased agenda & can therefore be disregarded. What they put forward are NOT facts. They are opinions. They can prove nothing. They have never proved anything. Therefore, if they are unable to prove anything, I very much doubt if you can. You claim you can prove it. Well, go on - prove it.


Secular meaning non Christian historians. YES they ARE historians. Many are ROMAN historians. You can't get any more credible in Christ's day than a Roman Historian. If they were to lie about these events, he would die. I don't think that they events are false. Are you saying that George Washington wasn't really the President of the United States and that it is merely the OPINON of the historians that he was? Are you willing to say that about Washington, that it cannot be PROVEN that he was President? I very much doubt if you can. Prove Washington wasn't President. Prove Jesus isn't part of History. The burden of proof is on you now, because the history is on my side, NOT yours.
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

CARLA;1058908 wrote: It won't matter I will be dead. :rolleyes:


Your body will die, but your soul and will live on.
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Post by FourPart »

A Secular Historian is simply one who has his / her own agenda to interpret artifacts to mean what they want them to mean.

Not once have I ever denied the existence of Jesus. That much is recorded, as far as his Crucifixion is concerned. That he may have been some kind of radical guru is not even questioned. The unsubstantiated claims that he was in some way a divinity by proxy is another matter altogether. All of that is hearsay with no evidence whatsoever. Imagine a Political Party's Electoral Manifestos. Each one of them will extol their leader in question as to their wonders & the marvelous deeds they have performed, attributing massive achievements to them, even when, in reality, they had nothing to do with them whatsoever. That is what the Bible is like. All hail the Great Margaret Thatcher / Tony Blair / Karl Marx / Adolf Hitler (delete as applicable), for he / she / they are the Son(s) / Daughter of God. Now - you find any sort of evidence that proves otherwise. Each one of them could be said to be the TRUE Messiah.
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Post by xfrodobagginsx »

FourPart;1480687 wrote: A Secular Historian is simply one who has his / her own agenda to interpret artifacts to mean what they want them to mean.

Not once have I ever denied the existence of Jesus. That much is recorded, as far as his Crucifixion is concerned. That he may have been some kind of radical guru is not even questioned. The unsubstantiated claims that he was in some way a divinity by proxy is another matter altogether. All of that is hearsay with no evidence whatsoever. Imagine a Political Party's Electoral Manifestos. Each one of them will extol their leader in question as to their wonders & the marvelous deeds they have performed, attributing massive achievements to them, even when, in reality, they had nothing to do with them whatsoever. That is what the Bible is like. All hail the Great Margaret Thatcher / Tony Blair / Karl Marx / Adolf Hitler (delete as applicable), for he / she / they are the Son(s) / Daughter of God. Now - you find any sort of evidence that proves otherwise. Each one of them could be said to be the TRUE Messiah.


Had any of the eyewitness testimony of Jesus Miracles not really happened, someone would have written about the fact that they were there and that it never really happened. We never see that about Jesus. Also, Jesus was predicted hundreds of years before His birth and fulfilled hundreds of prophecies with specific details that only He could have fulfilled.
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Post by FourPart »

xfrodobagginsx;1480843 wrote: Had any of the eyewitness testimony of Jesus Miracles not really happened, someone would have written about the fact that they were there and that it never really happened. We never see that about Jesus. Also, Jesus was predicted hundreds of years before His birth and fulfilled hundreds of prophecies with specific details that only He could have fulfilled.


That is a ridiculous statement. Have you seen any eyewitness testimony to say that I haven't performed any miracles?
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