Migrants
Migrants
Starting from this moment, no what ifs, no what should have beens, no why or how we got to this situation........What is the way forward with the Syrian and other assorted migrants entering the EU ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
Well, it is a long term project. First step is to help these folk decide whether they plan to be refugees, or if they want to be immigrants.
Refugees should have a long term plan of returning to their homeland. For those people, the road is a tough one, because the people they left at home may not want them back.
Immigrants need to be integrated into their new home.
We are still busy fretting over where they belong, and not wanting to accept them into our "culture"
I think it is getting to be time that humans abandon the idea of nation and boarder, and all that, but that idea has a lot of enemies.
It's not going to be easy.
I don't know how to get there from here, but then, neither does anyone else. We need to make that first step, of deciding as a planet where is it we want to go with all this.
Refugees should have a long term plan of returning to their homeland. For those people, the road is a tough one, because the people they left at home may not want them back.
Immigrants need to be integrated into their new home.
We are still busy fretting over where they belong, and not wanting to accept them into our "culture"
I think it is getting to be time that humans abandon the idea of nation and boarder, and all that, but that idea has a lot of enemies.
It's not going to be easy.
I don't know how to get there from here, but then, neither does anyone else. We need to make that first step, of deciding as a planet where is it we want to go with all this.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
-
Patsy Warnick
- Posts: 4567
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:53 am
Migrants
Lars
Well said..
It's not going to be easy
Patsy
Well said..
It's not going to be easy
Patsy
Migrants
The only possible way that there can be tens of thousands of people walking into Europe each day through the Syrian border is that the Turks - what utter bimbo ever thought the Turks, of all people, should be allowed into the European Union! - have opened their crossings and stood aside to let it happen. Every single Syrian and Iraqi currently walking through Yugoslavia and Hungary came over that Turkish border into the European Union.
As for Plastic Cameron, who didn't send a ferry to empty the Calais camps of a mere 3,000 a couple of months ago, his decision to bring more from Syrian camps direct instead of reducing the pressure on the European mainland, thereby increasing the influx by exactly the number he imports to the UK, don't imagine he's doing that accidentally. It's the most cynical antisocial political move I've seen in years, he should be asked to account.
As for Plastic Cameron, who didn't send a ferry to empty the Calais camps of a mere 3,000 a couple of months ago, his decision to bring more from Syrian camps direct instead of reducing the pressure on the European mainland, thereby increasing the influx by exactly the number he imports to the UK, don't imagine he's doing that accidentally. It's the most cynical antisocial political move I've seen in years, he should be asked to account.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Migrants
Why aren't they trying to get into iran or saudi arabia where at least the culture is similar rather than europe.
Migrants
gmc;1486540 wrote: Why aren't they trying to get into iran or saudi arabia where at least the culture is similar rather than europe.
The culture's similar?
Iran is Persian, Syria is Arab. It's as different as China and India. Different languages, different heritage, Iranians are Aryan, Syrians are Semitic, the only common attribute Iran and Syria share is the Koran.
Given that Iran backs the Syrian government they're scarcely likely to help any Syrian refugee tactless enough to show up at the Iranian border having walked the entire width of Northern Iraq across ISIS-held territory.
And Saudi Arabia is the country financing the attack on Syria in the first place, they're a direct cause of the mass migration!
The culture's similar?
Iran is Persian, Syria is Arab. It's as different as China and India. Different languages, different heritage, Iranians are Aryan, Syrians are Semitic, the only common attribute Iran and Syria share is the Koran.
Given that Iran backs the Syrian government they're scarcely likely to help any Syrian refugee tactless enough to show up at the Iranian border having walked the entire width of Northern Iraq across ISIS-held territory.
And Saudi Arabia is the country financing the attack on Syria in the first place, they're a direct cause of the mass migration!
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Migrants
spot;1486538 wrote: The only possible way that there can be tens of thousands of people walking into Europe each day through the Syrian border is that the Turks - what utter bimbo ever thought the Turks, of all people, should be allowed into the European Union! - have opened their crossings and stood aside to let it happen. Every single Syrian and Iraqi currently walking through Yugoslavia and Hungary came over that Turkish border into the European Union.
As for Plastic Cameron, who didn't send a ferry to empty the Calais camps of a mere 3,000 a couple of months ago, his decision to bring more from Syrian camps direct instead of reducing the pressure on the European mainland, thereby increasing the influx by exactly the number he imports to the UK, don't imagine he's doing that accidentally. It's the most cynical antisocial political move I've seen in years, he should be asked to account.
Couldn't agree more on these points, Spot! Turkey is a predominantly Muslim country, and is an easy means of entering the EU, legally OR illegally. Talk about 'weak link' in the chain!!
I must confess to a certain amount of trepidation, as so many people complacently believe the state-sponsored bull about mass immigration being good for us. It's not. It's causing a backlash that could very easily be the death of us!
As for Plastic Cameron, who didn't send a ferry to empty the Calais camps of a mere 3,000 a couple of months ago, his decision to bring more from Syrian camps direct instead of reducing the pressure on the European mainland, thereby increasing the influx by exactly the number he imports to the UK, don't imagine he's doing that accidentally. It's the most cynical antisocial political move I've seen in years, he should be asked to account.
Couldn't agree more on these points, Spot! Turkey is a predominantly Muslim country, and is an easy means of entering the EU, legally OR illegally. Talk about 'weak link' in the chain!!
I must confess to a certain amount of trepidation, as so many people complacently believe the state-sponsored bull about mass immigration being good for us. It's not. It's causing a backlash that could very easily be the death of us!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
Migrants
LarsMac;1486536 wrote: We are still busy fretting over where they belong, and not wanting to accept them into our "culture"
I think it is getting to be time that humans abandon the idea of nation and boarder, and all that, but that idea has a lot of enemies.
An idealistic point of view, but one I lean towards, we are all, after all, who we are are by accident of birth.
The problem is that people turn inward to protect what they see as theirs, that is why there is the rise of the right wing across the world.
I think it is getting to be time that humans abandon the idea of nation and boarder, and all that, but that idea has a lot of enemies.
An idealistic point of view, but one I lean towards, we are all, after all, who we are are by accident of birth.
The problem is that people turn inward to protect what they see as theirs, that is why there is the rise of the right wing across the world.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
spot;1486538 wrote: The only possible way that there can be tens of thousands of people walking into Europe each day through the Syrian border is that the Turks - what utter bimbo ever thought the Turks, of all people, should be allowed into the European Union! - have opened their crossings and stood aside to let it happen. Every single Syrian and Iraqi currently walking through Yugoslavia and Hungary came over that Turkish border into the European Union.
As for Plastic Cameron, who didn't send a ferry to empty the Calais camps of a mere 3,000 a couple of months ago, his decision to bring more from Syrian camps direct instead of reducing the pressure on the European mainland, thereby increasing the influx by exactly the number he imports to the UK, don't imagine he's doing that accidentally. It's the most cynical antisocial political move I've seen in years, he should be asked to account.
What exactly is wrong with the Turkish ?
And I thought you were of the kumbaya brigade, one world one people, open borders for all.
What about all the people in Greece and Italy ? They are from North Africa presumably and escaping other problems.............some of them financial.
Although Cameron's move of taking the minimum number directly from the camps is tokenism, I thought it was a clever idea, cutting out the dangers of the sea crossing, but many of those lost at sea are not coming from Syria.
As for Plastic Cameron, who didn't send a ferry to empty the Calais camps of a mere 3,000 a couple of months ago, his decision to bring more from Syrian camps direct instead of reducing the pressure on the European mainland, thereby increasing the influx by exactly the number he imports to the UK, don't imagine he's doing that accidentally. It's the most cynical antisocial political move I've seen in years, he should be asked to account.
What exactly is wrong with the Turkish ?
And I thought you were of the kumbaya brigade, one world one people, open borders for all.
What about all the people in Greece and Italy ? They are from North Africa presumably and escaping other problems.............some of them financial.
Although Cameron's move of taking the minimum number directly from the camps is tokenism, I thought it was a clever idea, cutting out the dangers of the sea crossing, but many of those lost at sea are not coming from Syria.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
Bruv;1486551 wrote: An idealistic point of view, but one I lean towards, we are all, after all, who we are are by accident of birth.
The problem is that people turn inward to protect what they see as theirs, that is why there is the rise of the right wing across the world.
One of the major issues I have is the fact that many of these 'immigrants', especially muslims, have no wish to integrate with us, they want us to fall in with their way of thinking. This is a growing problem, with intransigent people in both 'camps'. The rise of the far-right is directly linked to this, and MASS IMMIGRATION merely fuels this fire!! If we do nothing to rectify this situation, we are in grave danger of being 'swallowed whole' by this rapidly rising tide!
Here's a couple of good examples;
Example #2 shows how much some Muslims want to integrate...And that figure is growing daily!
The problem is that people turn inward to protect what they see as theirs, that is why there is the rise of the right wing across the world.
One of the major issues I have is the fact that many of these 'immigrants', especially muslims, have no wish to integrate with us, they want us to fall in with their way of thinking. This is a growing problem, with intransigent people in both 'camps'. The rise of the far-right is directly linked to this, and MASS IMMIGRATION merely fuels this fire!! If we do nothing to rectify this situation, we are in grave danger of being 'swallowed whole' by this rapidly rising tide!
Here's a couple of good examples;
Example #2 shows how much some Muslims want to integrate...And that figure is growing daily!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
Migrants
Bruv;1486552 wrote: What exactly is wrong with the Turkish ?The Armenian genocide; the total constant unchanging corruption of the government, military and civil administration from the fall of Constantinople in 1453 until today; the mere existence of the kebab; Midnight Express... would you like me to get into my stride at this point or give over. I can think of no other nation which could compete against Japan for the title of "Most Uncivilized Society In Living Memory" and win, not even if Rwanda entered.
And I thought you were of the kumbaya brigade, one world one people, open borders for all.
What about all the people in Greece and Italy ? They are from North Africa presumably and escaping other problems.............some of them financial.
Although Cameron's move of taking the minimum number directly from the camps is tokenism, I thought it was a clever idea, cutting out the dangers of the sea crossing, but many of those lost at sea are not coming from Syria.
You neglect the fact that those coming through on foot have already left Syria and Iraq, while those "tokens", as you put it, never left and never would have left were it not for Cameron arranging their transport to the UK. Taking migrants on the hoof instead of those from camps leaves the overall count of migrants lower. Cameron is deliberately pissing on Europe by refusing to relieve the pressure on the ground.
Those crossing the Mediterranean are a negligible few by comparison at the moment with those walking across the Turkish border.
And I thought you were of the kumbaya brigade, one world one people, open borders for all.
What about all the people in Greece and Italy ? They are from North Africa presumably and escaping other problems.............some of them financial.
Although Cameron's move of taking the minimum number directly from the camps is tokenism, I thought it was a clever idea, cutting out the dangers of the sea crossing, but many of those lost at sea are not coming from Syria.
You neglect the fact that those coming through on foot have already left Syria and Iraq, while those "tokens", as you put it, never left and never would have left were it not for Cameron arranging their transport to the UK. Taking migrants on the hoof instead of those from camps leaves the overall count of migrants lower. Cameron is deliberately pissing on Europe by refusing to relieve the pressure on the ground.
Those crossing the Mediterranean are a negligible few by comparison at the moment with those walking across the Turkish border.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Migrants
Smaug;1486553 wrote: One of the major issues I have is the fact that many of these 'immigrants', especially muslims, have no wish to integrate with us, they want us to fall in with their way of thinking. This is a growing problem, with intransigent people in both 'camps'. The rise of the far-right is directly linked to this, and MASS IMMIGRATION merely fuels this fire!! If we do nothing to rectify this situation, we are in grave danger of being 'swallowed whole' by this rapidly rising tide!
Here's a couple of good examples;
Good ?
I hear Stephen Yaxley-Lennon AKA Tommy Robinson,Andrew McMaster and Paul Harris,jailed for mortgage fraud has been recalled to complete his jail term for breach of conditions
He and the other fellow have history, Robinson is a bit of a chancer in my opinion, the area he is traveling through has probably enjoyed visits from himself and the EDL, many of who are simply nasty totally paranoiac people.
There many areas of London dominated by different cultures, some Jewish, Caribbean, Chinese, and some Muslim, any street patrols that restrict passers movement and legal practices such as drinking alcohol, are best dealt with by the law. Many take place at night by hooded youth who are just thugs.They are the equivalent of muggers and should be targeted as such by police.
Here's a couple of good examples;
Good ?
I hear Stephen Yaxley-Lennon AKA Tommy Robinson,Andrew McMaster and Paul Harris,jailed for mortgage fraud has been recalled to complete his jail term for breach of conditions
He and the other fellow have history, Robinson is a bit of a chancer in my opinion, the area he is traveling through has probably enjoyed visits from himself and the EDL, many of who are simply nasty totally paranoiac people.
There many areas of London dominated by different cultures, some Jewish, Caribbean, Chinese, and some Muslim, any street patrols that restrict passers movement and legal practices such as drinking alcohol, are best dealt with by the law. Many take place at night by hooded youth who are just thugs.They are the equivalent of muggers and should be targeted as such by police.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
Bruv;1486558 wrote: Good ?
I hear Stephen Yaxley-Lennon AKA Tommy Robinson,Andrew McMaster and Paul Harris,jailed for mortgage fraud has been recalled to complete his jail term for breach of conditions
He and the other fellow have history, Robinson is a bit of a chancer in my opinion, the area he is traveling through has probably enjoyed visits from himself and the EDL, many of who are simply nasty totally paranoiac people.
There many areas of London dominated by different cultures, some Jewish, Caribbean, Chinese, and some Muslim, any street patrols that restrict passers movement and legal practices such as drinking alcohol, are best dealt with by the law. Many take place at night by hooded youth who are just thugs.They are the equivalent of muggers and should be targeted as such by police.
Like it or lump it, these things are happening as we speak; the police don't want too much involvement for fear of being labelled as 'racist', thus the police tend to 'duck' this issue as much as possible. This also happened at Royal Wootton Bassett when our dead servicemen were being repatriated; Muslim hate clerics (Choudray was one) whipped up a mob of hard-line thugs to abuse the cortege(s) and what did the 'Rozzers' do? Naff all...Remember??
When are we going to wake up to the danger? Probably when it's too late to avoid MASS BLOODSHED!!:-5:-5
The reason I quoted these as 'good' examples is to illustrate the folly that permits these violent and intransigent people to flourish; and that's down to serial incompetent governments with 'ostrich syndrome'!
I hear Stephen Yaxley-Lennon AKA Tommy Robinson,Andrew McMaster and Paul Harris,jailed for mortgage fraud has been recalled to complete his jail term for breach of conditions
He and the other fellow have history, Robinson is a bit of a chancer in my opinion, the area he is traveling through has probably enjoyed visits from himself and the EDL, many of who are simply nasty totally paranoiac people.
There many areas of London dominated by different cultures, some Jewish, Caribbean, Chinese, and some Muslim, any street patrols that restrict passers movement and legal practices such as drinking alcohol, are best dealt with by the law. Many take place at night by hooded youth who are just thugs.They are the equivalent of muggers and should be targeted as such by police.
Like it or lump it, these things are happening as we speak; the police don't want too much involvement for fear of being labelled as 'racist', thus the police tend to 'duck' this issue as much as possible. This also happened at Royal Wootton Bassett when our dead servicemen were being repatriated; Muslim hate clerics (Choudray was one) whipped up a mob of hard-line thugs to abuse the cortege(s) and what did the 'Rozzers' do? Naff all...Remember??
When are we going to wake up to the danger? Probably when it's too late to avoid MASS BLOODSHED!!:-5:-5
The reason I quoted these as 'good' examples is to illustrate the folly that permits these violent and intransigent people to flourish; and that's down to serial incompetent governments with 'ostrich syndrome'!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
Migrants
spot;1486556 wrote: The Armenian genocide; the total constant unchanging corruption of the government, military and civil administration from the fall of Constantinople in 1453 until today; the mere existence of the kebab; Midnight Express... would you like me to get into my stride at this point or give over. I can think of no other nation which could compete against Japan for the title of "Most Uncivilized Society In Living Memory" and win, not even if Rwanda entered.
You neglect the fact that those coming through on foot have already left Syria and Iraq, while those "tokens", as you put it, never left and never would have left were it not for Cameron arranging their transport to the UK. Taking migrants on the hoof instead of those from camps leaves the overall count of migrants lower. Cameron is deliberately pissing on Europe by refusing to relieve the pressure on the ground.
Those crossing the Mediterranean are a negligible few by comparison at the moment with those walking across the Turkish border.
And I thought you were being serious............the existence of the kebab ??? Not solely Turkish of course, then Japan competing as being uncivilised.......you had me rolling on the floor laughing.....wetting myself.
The second point you make is true enough I would concede.
You neglect the fact that those coming through on foot have already left Syria and Iraq, while those "tokens", as you put it, never left and never would have left were it not for Cameron arranging their transport to the UK. Taking migrants on the hoof instead of those from camps leaves the overall count of migrants lower. Cameron is deliberately pissing on Europe by refusing to relieve the pressure on the ground.
Those crossing the Mediterranean are a negligible few by comparison at the moment with those walking across the Turkish border.
And I thought you were being serious............the existence of the kebab ??? Not solely Turkish of course, then Japan competing as being uncivilised.......you had me rolling on the floor laughing.....wetting myself.
The second point you make is true enough I would concede.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
Smaug;1486562 wrote: Like it or lump it, these things are happening as we speak; the police don't want too much involvement for fear of being labelled as 'racist', thus the police tend to 'duck' this issue as much as possible. This also happened at Royal Wootton Bassett when our dead servicemen were being repatriated; Muslim hate clerics (Choudray was one) whipped up a mob of hard-line thugs to abuse the cortege(s) and what did the 'Rozzers' do? Naff all...Remember??
When are we going to wake up to the danger? Probably when it's too late to avoid
MASS BLOODSHED!!:-5:-5
Because the "Rozzers" don't steam in waving their batons don't mean they are doing Naff all.
If you really want riots as they pass through Wootton Basset High street, they could do just that.
The way I understand it the police video everything and then pick them up at home later.
Then you get the problem of extremists jailed and radicalising others.
When are we going to wake up to the danger? Probably when it's too late to avoid
MASS BLOODSHED!!:-5:-5
Because the "Rozzers" don't steam in waving their batons don't mean they are doing Naff all.
If you really want riots as they pass through Wootton Basset High street, they could do just that.
The way I understand it the police video everything and then pick them up at home later.
Then you get the problem of extremists jailed and radicalising others.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
Bruv;1486566 wrote: Because the "Rozzers" don't steam in waving their batons don't mean they are doing Naff all.
If you really want riots as they pass through Wootton Basset High street, they could do just that.
The way I understand it the police video everything and then pick them up at home later.
Then you get the problem of extremists jailed and radicalising others.
Then deport them! Or jail them in company with all the other extremists in political prisons, rather than in the mainstream prison system. Hard solutions for hard problems, methinks.
What would have been wrong with arresting these hardliners anyway? Bet white folk would have been arrested if the situation was reversed!!
If you really want riots as they pass through Wootton Basset High street, they could do just that.
The way I understand it the police video everything and then pick them up at home later.
Then you get the problem of extremists jailed and radicalising others.
Then deport them! Or jail them in company with all the other extremists in political prisons, rather than in the mainstream prison system. Hard solutions for hard problems, methinks.
What would have been wrong with arresting these hardliners anyway? Bet white folk would have been arrested if the situation was reversed!!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
Migrants
Smaug;1486553 wrote: One of the major issues I have is the fact that many of these 'immigrants', especially muslims, have no wish to integrate with us, they want us to fall in with their way of thinking. This is a growing problem, with intransigent people in both 'camps'. The rise of the far-right is directly linked to this, and MASS IMMIGRATION merely fuels this fire!! If we do nothing to rectify this situation, we are in grave danger of being 'swallowed whole' by this rapidly rising tide!
Here's a couple of good examples;
Example #2 shows how much some Muslims want to integrate...And that figure is growing daily!
Well, that first guy, Tommy whathisname, I wouldn't want him hanging around my neighborhood, either. He's a bit of a prick.
Here's a couple of good examples;
Example #2 shows how much some Muslims want to integrate...And that figure is growing daily!
Well, that first guy, Tommy whathisname, I wouldn't want him hanging around my neighborhood, either. He's a bit of a prick.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Migrants
LarsMac;1486570 wrote: Well, that first guy, Tommy whathisname, I wouldn't want him hanging around my neighborhood, either. He's a bit of a prick.
I quite agree, but you all seem to be missing the point, namely, that naive, complacent incompetence, coupled with 'ostrich syndrome' has provided the perfect breeding ground for these extreme viewpoints to flourish! NEITHER of these groups of 'hard-liners' would have had the fuel to feed their respective fires if we hadn't opened the doors wide to mass immigration and multiculturalism in the first place!:-5
How much more evidence does it take to convince people that we have a problem?
Massive race riots?
Civil war?
Sharia law?
Insurrection?
Fascist government?
The way we're NOT dealing with things, any of the above is not just possible, it's a high order of probability!
Take a look at this. If things continue as they are, this is how the future will look in Englamabad in a couple of decades....
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/370013 ... and-cities
Read and digest.
I quite agree, but you all seem to be missing the point, namely, that naive, complacent incompetence, coupled with 'ostrich syndrome' has provided the perfect breeding ground for these extreme viewpoints to flourish! NEITHER of these groups of 'hard-liners' would have had the fuel to feed their respective fires if we hadn't opened the doors wide to mass immigration and multiculturalism in the first place!:-5
How much more evidence does it take to convince people that we have a problem?
Massive race riots?
Civil war?
Sharia law?
Insurrection?
Fascist government?
The way we're NOT dealing with things, any of the above is not just possible, it's a high order of probability!
Take a look at this. If things continue as they are, this is how the future will look in Englamabad in a couple of decades....
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/370013 ... and-cities
Read and digest.
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
Migrants
Seems to me you are getting away from the spirit that Bruv intended with this thread.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Migrants
LarsMac;1486578 wrote: Seems to me you are getting away from the spirit that Bruv intended with this thread.
Possibly so, Lars. Though there is a relationship (of sorts), insomuch as the issues highlighted above would indicate that our power to aid these many peopleis, in reality, somewhat limited. We are not a bottomless pit. Threads do tend to do that fairly often, I notice!
Possibly so, Lars. Though there is a relationship (of sorts), insomuch as the issues highlighted above would indicate that our power to aid these many peopleis, in reality, somewhat limited. We are not a bottomless pit. Threads do tend to do that fairly often, I notice!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
Migrants
LarsMac;1486578 wrote: Seems to me you are getting away from the spirit that Bruv intended with this thread.
Possibly so, Lars. Threads do tend to 'meader' quite a bit, I notice.
There is a relationship (of sorts) to the first post, insomuch as the above posts would indicate that our power to help is, in reality, somewhat limited. We are not a 'bottomless pit'.
Possibly so, Lars. Threads do tend to 'meader' quite a bit, I notice.
There is a relationship (of sorts) to the first post, insomuch as the above posts would indicate that our power to help is, in reality, somewhat limited. We are not a 'bottomless pit'.
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
Migrants
Long term, the only way to actually fix the refugee problem is to fix the places these people are fleeing from so that they no longer want to leave home and find a safe place to live.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Migrants
Ignore post #21; an error message indicated no internet, and there was no sign of post #20. Suddenly, there's post #20 out of nowhere....
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
Migrants
LarsMac;1486581 wrote: Long term, the only way to actually fix the refugee problem is to fix the places these people are fleeing from so that they no longer want to leave home and find a safe place to live.
Yes, I think that's the way forward. We must be careful about that, though; we've all seen what hasty 'regime change' can bring. Persuasion and education are two important keywords here....In conjunction with carefully monitored and accountable financial help at times.
Yes, I think that's the way forward. We must be careful about that, though; we've all seen what hasty 'regime change' can bring. Persuasion and education are two important keywords here....In conjunction with carefully monitored and accountable financial help at times.
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
Migrants
LarsMac;1486570 wrote: Well, that first guy, Tommy whathisname, I wouldn't want him hanging around my neighborhood, either. He's a bit of a prick.
See Smaug even an American can recognise a knob when they see them.
See Smaug even an American can recognise a knob when they see them.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
Smaug;1486572 wrote: I quite agree, but you all seem to be missing the point, namely, that naive, complacent incompetence, coupled with 'ostrich syndrome' has provided the perfect breeding ground for these extreme viewpoints to flourish! NEITHER of these groups of 'hard-liners' would have had the fuel to feed their respective fires if we hadn't opened the doors wide to mass immigration and multiculturalism in the first place!:-5
How much more evidence does it take to convince people that we have a problem?
Massive race riots?
Civil war?
Sharia law?
Insurrection?
Fascist government?
The way we're NOT dealing with things, any of the above is not just possible, it's a high order of probability!
Take a look at this. If things continue as they are, this is how the future will look in Englamabad in a couple of decades....
White Britons are now a minority in 4 towns and cities | UK | News | Daily Express
Read and digest.
Begging your pardon that article sounds like Goebbles, he came out with the same sort of lines about the untermensch because they had big noses.
The Express article tells us that we have some dark skinned citizens, next it will be beware of the Gingers.
We have had several rather large uprisings from angry West Indian youth ably assisted by their fellow white British under achievers due mainly to being the suppressed underclass, many living in inner cities shared by massively subsidised banks, amongst luxuriously stocked shops, that they see every day as they go to sign on at the employment agency.
Not really Race riots.
Civil war, Sharia Law, Fascist government and Insurr-bloody-ection ? Are you over thinking this a little ?
How much more evidence does it take to convince people that we have a problem?
Massive race riots?
Civil war?
Sharia law?
Insurrection?
Fascist government?
The way we're NOT dealing with things, any of the above is not just possible, it's a high order of probability!
Take a look at this. If things continue as they are, this is how the future will look in Englamabad in a couple of decades....
White Britons are now a minority in 4 towns and cities | UK | News | Daily Express
Read and digest.
Begging your pardon that article sounds like Goebbles, he came out with the same sort of lines about the untermensch because they had big noses.
The Express article tells us that we have some dark skinned citizens, next it will be beware of the Gingers.
We have had several rather large uprisings from angry West Indian youth ably assisted by their fellow white British under achievers due mainly to being the suppressed underclass, many living in inner cities shared by massively subsidised banks, amongst luxuriously stocked shops, that they see every day as they go to sign on at the employment agency.
Not really Race riots.
Civil war, Sharia Law, Fascist government and Insurr-bloody-ection ? Are you over thinking this a little ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
LarsMac;1486581 wrote: Long term, the only way to actually fix the refugee problem is to fix the places these people are fleeing from so that they no longer want to leave home and find a safe place to live.
Fix what we broke ?
I keep hearing how troubled these areas have always been, as if the recent western interference doesn't matter.
Fix what we broke ?
I keep hearing how troubled these areas have always been, as if the recent western interference doesn't matter.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
Bruv;1486586 wrote: Fix what we broke ?
I keep hearing how troubled these areas have always been, as if the recent western interference doesn't matter.
Well you did start the discussion with:
Starting from this moment, no what ifs, no what should have beens, no why or how we got to this situation...
I am attempting to follow that directive.
But, yes, the causal chain goes way back to the industrialized West colonial periods and the extraction of resources with little regard for the local population. That is a given, and there's little point in rehashing all of that.
I keep hearing how troubled these areas have always been, as if the recent western interference doesn't matter.
Well you did start the discussion with:
Starting from this moment, no what ifs, no what should have beens, no why or how we got to this situation...
I am attempting to follow that directive.
But, yes, the causal chain goes way back to the industrialized West colonial periods and the extraction of resources with little regard for the local population. That is a given, and there's little point in rehashing all of that.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Migrants
But............... "the only way to actually fix the refugee problem is to fix the places these people are fleeing from"....would be to enter into the ongoing conflict.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
Bruv;1486588 wrote: But............... "the only way to actually fix the refugee problem is to fix the places these people are fleeing from"....would be to enter into the ongoing conflict.
Or, of course, we could just stop paying the rebel organizers and exporting arms to their mercenary forces, that might help.
It's not a matter of how do we stop it, the local government can stop if it if we allow it to. The problem is how to stop our amoral political leaders from starting yet more civil wars round those parts.
Or, of course, we could just stop paying the rebel organizers and exporting arms to their mercenary forces, that might help.
It's not a matter of how do we stop it, the local government can stop if it if we allow it to. The problem is how to stop our amoral political leaders from starting yet more civil wars round those parts.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Migrants
Smaug;1486572 wrote:
Read and digest.
If you want me to read and digest, can I suggest it's something of substance and not from the Express nor the Daily Mail. Both have headlines and articles that are aimed at manipulating the reader via half truths, scaremongering, carefully managed photos and damn lies. They bring nothing to this argument whatsoever. They are rags on which to place your muddy boots.
Read and digest.
If you want me to read and digest, can I suggest it's something of substance and not from the Express nor the Daily Mail. Both have headlines and articles that are aimed at manipulating the reader via half truths, scaremongering, carefully managed photos and damn lies. They bring nothing to this argument whatsoever. They are rags on which to place your muddy boots.
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Migrants
spot;1486593 wrote: Or, of course, we could just stop paying the rebel organizers and exporting arms to their mercenary forces, that might help.
It's not a matter of how do we stop it, the local government can stop if it if we allow it to. The problem is how to stop our amoral political leaders from starting yet more civil wars round those parts.
Think it was yourself that answered my query about local arms manufacturers, thought they were self sufficient on that front.And I don't think finance is a problem.
It's not a matter of how do we stop it, the local government can stop if it if we allow it to. The problem is how to stop our amoral political leaders from starting yet more civil wars round those parts.
Think it was yourself that answered my query about local arms manufacturers, thought they were self sufficient on that front.And I don't think finance is a problem.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
Bruv;1486599 wrote: Think it was yourself that answered my query about local arms manufacturers, thought they were self sufficient on that front.And I don't think finance is a problem.
We're talking about the Syrian rebel groups? Not one of them manufactures its own arms.
The Iranians manufacture their own arms because of the long-term embargo. The Iranians supply the government of Syria with arms.
Western governments arm the rebel groups, and if money was an irrelevance you'd think the bean-counters in London and Washington would keep the cash for domestic issues. They don't. They pay the organizers of the rebel factions in Syria, just as they paid the organizers of the rebel factions in Libya in order to topple the government there.
This continues to be interference by Western governments in the internal affairs of a sovereign state - Syria, this time - just as the destruction of Libya and Iraq was.
We're talking about the Syrian rebel groups? Not one of them manufactures its own arms.
The Iranians manufacture their own arms because of the long-term embargo. The Iranians supply the government of Syria with arms.
Western governments arm the rebel groups, and if money was an irrelevance you'd think the bean-counters in London and Washington would keep the cash for domestic issues. They don't. They pay the organizers of the rebel factions in Syria, just as they paid the organizers of the rebel factions in Libya in order to topple the government there.
This continues to be interference by Western governments in the internal affairs of a sovereign state - Syria, this time - just as the destruction of Libya and Iraq was.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Migrants
spot;1486608 wrote: We're talking about the Syrian rebel groups? Not one of them manufactures its own arms.
The Iranians manufacturer their own arms because of the long-term embargo. The Iranians supply the government of Syria with arms.
Western governments arm the rebel groups, and if money was an irrelevance you'd think the bean-counters in London and Washington would keep the cash for domestic issues. They don't. They pay the organizers of the rebel factions in Syria, just as they paid the organizers of the rebel factions in Libya in order to topple the government there.
This continues to be interference by Western governments in the internal affairs of a sovereign state - Syria, this time - just as the destruction of Libya and Iraq was.
It is very confusing though, isn't it ?
Assad is supposedly the bad guy, at the moment, with some of the rebels as good guys, on top of that there is ISIL, bad guys as agreed by everyone.
Suspect the country is awash with arms, and each group involved has outside financial support and supplies, without western involvement.
The current state of play
The Iranians manufacturer their own arms because of the long-term embargo. The Iranians supply the government of Syria with arms.
Western governments arm the rebel groups, and if money was an irrelevance you'd think the bean-counters in London and Washington would keep the cash for domestic issues. They don't. They pay the organizers of the rebel factions in Syria, just as they paid the organizers of the rebel factions in Libya in order to topple the government there.
This continues to be interference by Western governments in the internal affairs of a sovereign state - Syria, this time - just as the destruction of Libya and Iraq was.
It is very confusing though, isn't it ?
Assad is supposedly the bad guy, at the moment, with some of the rebels as good guys, on top of that there is ISIL, bad guys as agreed by everyone.
Suspect the country is awash with arms, and each group involved has outside financial support and supplies, without western involvement.
The current state of play
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
I think you need to ask whether having the al Assad family in charge of the government of Syria is a worse bad than the American-led destabilization of that government. Even if the governance was bad - and I'd dispute that, just as I would about the Libyan government and the Iraq government before each was toppled by Western destabilization - it was far far less bad than what happened as a result of the interference, in all three cases. Foreseeably so.
The resulting anarchy is the intended result. Libya, Iraq and Syria are less powerful states than they were. That's a lousy reason for the destruction - they were the best available governments for the citizens of their respective countries, and many of their citizens said as much, and meant it.
The resulting anarchy is the intended result. Libya, Iraq and Syria are less powerful states than they were. That's a lousy reason for the destruction - they were the best available governments for the citizens of their respective countries, and many of their citizens said as much, and meant it.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Migrants
Snowfire;1486596 wrote: If you want me to read and digest, can I suggest it's something of substance and not from the Express nor the Daily Mail. Both have headlines and articles that are aimed at manipulating the reader via half truths, scaremongering, carefully managed photos and damn lies. They bring nothing to this argument whatsoever. They are rags on which to place your muddy boots.
Are you a Telegraph reader? If so, here's one from them...
Whites 'leaving cities as migrants move in' - Telegraph
And an article (one of many) from Migration watch.
Migration Watch UK | An independent, voluntary, non-political body concerned about the scale of immigration into the UK.
Whilst I would agree that rags such as the Express, The Sun, and The Daily Mail are sensationalist, they aren't always wrong....Especially if they've sourced their figures from Migration watch, or other reputable sources. The trouble is that the above-mentioned papers have 'cried wolf' or told ultra-distorted versions of the truth on many previous occasions, thus seriously eroding their credibility. I hope these links suffice to clarify this matter!
Are you a Telegraph reader? If so, here's one from them...
Whites 'leaving cities as migrants move in' - Telegraph
And an article (one of many) from Migration watch.
Migration Watch UK | An independent, voluntary, non-political body concerned about the scale of immigration into the UK.
Whilst I would agree that rags such as the Express, The Sun, and The Daily Mail are sensationalist, they aren't always wrong....Especially if they've sourced their figures from Migration watch, or other reputable sources. The trouble is that the above-mentioned papers have 'cried wolf' or told ultra-distorted versions of the truth on many previous occasions, thus seriously eroding their credibility. I hope these links suffice to clarify this matter!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
Migrants
Smaug;1486651 wrote: Are you a Telegraph reader? If so, here's one from them...1. If you have to go back ten years for an article then you're clutching at straws.
2. Describing Migration Watch as unbiased is ludicrous, it's as reputable as a man seen at midnight near a rabbit warren with ferrets in both pockets, a dark lantern, a lurcher, and carrying a cosh just in case.
2. Describing Migration Watch as unbiased is ludicrous, it's as reputable as a man seen at midnight near a rabbit warren with ferrets in both pockets, a dark lantern, a lurcher, and carrying a cosh just in case.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Migrants
spot;1486633 wrote: I think you need to ask whether having the al Assad family in charge of the government of Syria is a worse bad than the American-led destabilization of that government. Even if the governance was bad - and I'd dispute that, just as I would about the Libyan government and the Iraq government before each was toppled by Western destabilization - it was far far less bad than what happened as a result of the interference, in all three cases. Foreseeably so.
The resulting anarchy is the intended result. Libya, Iraq and Syria are less powerful states than they were. That's a lousy reason for the destruction - they were the best available governments for the citizens of their respective countries, and many of their citizens said as much, and meant it.
Do you honestly believe that the destabilization was the purpose of actions taken by any of the sides involved in this situation ?
I am with you as far as that was the result, but to act with the best intentions which go badly wrong is not the same.
It's not enough to ask "What did they expect ?"
What advantage would be gained by causing anarchy to reign ?
The resulting anarchy is the intended result. Libya, Iraq and Syria are less powerful states than they were. That's a lousy reason for the destruction - they were the best available governments for the citizens of their respective countries, and many of their citizens said as much, and meant it.
Do you honestly believe that the destabilization was the purpose of actions taken by any of the sides involved in this situation ?
I am with you as far as that was the result, but to act with the best intentions which go badly wrong is not the same.
It's not enough to ask "What did they expect ?"
What advantage would be gained by causing anarchy to reign ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
Bruv;1486658 wrote: Do you honestly believe that the destabilization was the purpose of actions taken by any of the sides involved in this situation ?Can you think of a better description of the Libyan disaster than the consequence of deliberate destabilization by Western governments?
Do you really think the Syrian disaster has any different cause?
Both Libya and Syria were non-aligned independent anti-capitalist countries. Yes, I'm quite sure destroying their economic example was the primary purpose of the destabilization. You cannot seriously think it was done in the interest of the citizens of either country? How could those citizens possibly, under any likely outcome, have benefited? They're trivial side effects who just happen to be resettling where they can't be invaded again, and it serves Europe damn well right for sitting back while the problem was created in the first place.
Do you really think the Syrian disaster has any different cause?
Both Libya and Syria were non-aligned independent anti-capitalist countries. Yes, I'm quite sure destroying their economic example was the primary purpose of the destabilization. You cannot seriously think it was done in the interest of the citizens of either country? How could those citizens possibly, under any likely outcome, have benefited? They're trivial side effects who just happen to be resettling where they can't be invaded again, and it serves Europe damn well right for sitting back while the problem was created in the first place.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Migrants
The point I have trouble with is your statement "The resulting anarchy is the intended result."
I shall repeat............What advantage would be gained by causing anarchy to reign ?
You can alter 'would' to 'could', as in, what advantage could be gained, by those who deliberately caused these events to unfold ?
I am not disagreeing with the outside interference being a major factor in causing the problems we are experiencing, but for that meddlings aim to be the destabilization profits nobody.
I shall repeat............What advantage would be gained by causing anarchy to reign ?
You can alter 'would' to 'could', as in, what advantage could be gained, by those who deliberately caused these events to unfold ?
I am not disagreeing with the outside interference being a major factor in causing the problems we are experiencing, but for that meddlings aim to be the destabilization profits nobody.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
It's not often I agree with Britain First, but this image of theirs does give food for thought.
Migrants
FourPart;1486662 wrote: It's not often I agree with Britain First, but this image of theirs does give food for thought.
More food for thought paranoiacs if you want more food is the Suns front page daily. I check it out on the news stand with a chuckle and a cringe HERE is todays offering.
More food for thought paranoiacs if you want more food is the Suns front page daily. I check it out on the news stand with a chuckle and a cringe HERE is todays offering.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
Bruv;1486660 wrote: The point I have trouble with is your statement "The resulting anarchy is the intended result."
Step back a moment, and tell me what possible reason you think the Americans had in imposing their total economic blockade of Cuba for the last half century. Is there any possible cause you can come up with other than that Cuba is a non-aligned independent anti-capitalist country and the Americans were attempting to bring about the downfall of the Cuban government, regardless of the consequences to the citizens of Cuba?
If you can accept that they did it there for that reason, why do you have trouble extending the concept?
Step back a moment, and tell me what possible reason you think the Americans had in imposing their total economic blockade of Cuba for the last half century. Is there any possible cause you can come up with other than that Cuba is a non-aligned independent anti-capitalist country and the Americans were attempting to bring about the downfall of the Cuban government, regardless of the consequences to the citizens of Cuba?
If you can accept that they did it there for that reason, why do you have trouble extending the concept?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Migrants
That was due to the Communist ideology on America's doorstep.........and stopping it's spread..............OK you have convinced me...............Nobody directly benefits......other than the capitalist money making machine.................that is America.
Them Ayrabs are right the Americans are the devil
Them Ayrabs are right the Americans are the devil
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
Betty Boop
- Posts: 16988
- Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:17 pm
- Location: The end of the World
Migrants
Bruv;1486683 wrote: More food for thought paranoiacs if you want more food is the Suns front page daily. I check it out on the news stand with a chuckle and a cringe HERE is todays offering.
I do the same Bruv, I saw that today and instantly wondered where they'd fabricated the numbers up from.
I do the same Bruv, I saw that today and instantly wondered where they'd fabricated the numbers up from.
Migrants
Betty Boop;1486690 wrote: I do the same Bruv, I saw that today and instantly wondered where they'd fabricated the numbers up from.
Well..................I think in strange ways at times.............my initial thought was "The Gulf Stream is hurling billions and billions of gallons of water our way" Which is technically true................ as I understand it.......but of course we benefit from that as it is a weather phenomenon that gives us our temperate climate and of course the water washes around us as sea without engulfing us under it all.
But to the uneducated and criminally gullible it might just be beyond their comprehension.
The migrants are heading in our direction because they are moving from Syria..........north westerly (?) toward us, whether we are their intended destination is open to question.
(I do go on sometimes don't I ?)
Well..................I think in strange ways at times.............my initial thought was "The Gulf Stream is hurling billions and billions of gallons of water our way" Which is technically true................ as I understand it.......but of course we benefit from that as it is a weather phenomenon that gives us our temperate climate and of course the water washes around us as sea without engulfing us under it all.
But to the uneducated and criminally gullible it might just be beyond their comprehension.
The migrants are heading in our direction because they are moving from Syria..........north westerly (?) toward us, whether we are their intended destination is open to question.
(I do go on sometimes don't I ?)
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
Bruv;1486683 wrote: More food for thought paranoiacs if you want more food is the Suns front page daily. I check it out on the news stand with a chuckle and a cringe HERE is todays offering.
It may well be paranoid, but as the saying goes, just because you know you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. The map is obviously intended as propaganda, of that there can be no doubt, but it is essentially correct. The area is surrounded by Free Countries, which are so much easier to get to in order to seek refuge which, by definition, is what they are claiming to do. However, despite already being in safe countries, they continue to head in a North Westerly direction towards those countries that offer benefits. One has to question their real motivation.
It may well be paranoid, but as the saying goes, just because you know you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. The map is obviously intended as propaganda, of that there can be no doubt, but it is essentially correct. The area is surrounded by Free Countries, which are so much easier to get to in order to seek refuge which, by definition, is what they are claiming to do. However, despite already being in safe countries, they continue to head in a North Westerly direction towards those countries that offer benefits. One has to question their real motivation.
Migrants
FourPart;1486695 wrote: One has to question their real motivation.
They are fleeing a civil war.......................remember.
Wind it back a little and put yourself in their position..............imagine the family sitting around talking about what they can do.
They could be people with businesses, stable lives with war damaged property, with deaths of many family or friends prompting them to gather whatever they can carry and seek safety for the remaining loved ones.
This not just a two week break or a simple house move, they are leaving everything that they know in fear for their lives.
The choices are move over the nearest border and hunker down in a tent living off hand outs until it all blows over, so they can go back.
Move over the nearest border and compete with the locals for a living and homes, or move deeper into whatever country they enter and compete with the locals and the other thousands of new comers, pushing up that nearest countries population by hundreds of thousands.
Or decide to go for broke and head for the biggest richest most safe countries to ensure the future of your family.
And don't forget a quarter of a million people have lost their lives.........it's a war they are fleeing.
They are fleeing a civil war.......................remember.
Wind it back a little and put yourself in their position..............imagine the family sitting around talking about what they can do.
They could be people with businesses, stable lives with war damaged property, with deaths of many family or friends prompting them to gather whatever they can carry and seek safety for the remaining loved ones.
This not just a two week break or a simple house move, they are leaving everything that they know in fear for their lives.
The choices are move over the nearest border and hunker down in a tent living off hand outs until it all blows over, so they can go back.
Move over the nearest border and compete with the locals for a living and homes, or move deeper into whatever country they enter and compete with the locals and the other thousands of new comers, pushing up that nearest countries population by hundreds of thousands.
Or decide to go for broke and head for the biggest richest most safe countries to ensure the future of your family.
And don't forget a quarter of a million people have lost their lives.........it's a war they are fleeing.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Migrants
As far as I can tell, the migrants at Calais appear to be mostly young men and it is my belief that they are 'economic' migrants attempting to get to the UK to benefit from our 'services' . It is very difficult to see any genuine refugees from war zones at Calais.
This is possibly why Cameron has said he will take refugees from the Mediterranean area, as they are more likely to be genuine refugees fleeing the terrible conflict in their home countries. These sort of refugees one has to feel great sympathy for and feel glad, selfishly, that it is them and not us, in that terrible situation.
All those people masquerading as refugees when they are just trying to take advantage of a nation's generosity as migrants, should be ordered back to their mother countries.
The sooner the UK brings in a points system for immigration like Australia and Canada, the better all round. I believe that we would be only able to bring in this system when we are not a member of the EU. Then we can have much better controls over our borders.
The UK is a tiny country and there is not enough room to cater for thousands of extra people. Germany, France, America are much better able to cater for such influxes of people - they have much more room.
This is possibly why Cameron has said he will take refugees from the Mediterranean area, as they are more likely to be genuine refugees fleeing the terrible conflict in their home countries. These sort of refugees one has to feel great sympathy for and feel glad, selfishly, that it is them and not us, in that terrible situation.
All those people masquerading as refugees when they are just trying to take advantage of a nation's generosity as migrants, should be ordered back to their mother countries.
The sooner the UK brings in a points system for immigration like Australia and Canada, the better all round. I believe that we would be only able to bring in this system when we are not a member of the EU. Then we can have much better controls over our borders.
The UK is a tiny country and there is not enough room to cater for thousands of extra people. Germany, France, America are much better able to cater for such influxes of people - they have much more room.
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
Migrants
G#Gill;1486705 wrote: All those people masquerading as refugees when they are just trying to take advantage of a nation's generosity as migrants, should be ordered back to their mother countries.Why, out of interest? Just because you were born here, what makes you feel more entitled to the economic advantage of living in this country than any other person on the planet? In what way are they any less deserving of the advantage?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.