The world's biggest carmaker admitted last week that it deceived US regulators in exhaust emissions tests by installing a device to give more positive results.
VW has already said that it is setting aside €6.5bn (£4.7bn) to cover the costs of the scandal.
They deliberately installed a device that gave false readings when emission tests were done on a rolling road, readings lowered by the steering being straight ahead.
One of the worlds most prestigious and trusted manufacturers..........what next.....dodgy bankers.......no Santa Clause ?
VW.......what ??
VW.......what ??
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
VW.......what ??
As far as I'm aware, the £4.7 bn put aside is just the beginning. There is a substantial fine to pay as well. I did read £11 bn...didn't I ?
Would that amount of money be enough to finish them ?
Would that amount of money be enough to finish them ?
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
VW.......what ??
....
Attached files
Attached files
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
VW.......what ??
Snowfire;1486666 wrote: As far as I'm aware, the £4.7 bn put aside is just the beginning. There is a substantial fine to pay as well. I did read £11 bn...didn't I ?
Would that amount of money be enough to finish them ?
Sorry I still can't grasp billions, especially in relation to money, it's sounds obscene though.
Would that amount of money be enough to finish them ?
Sorry I still can't grasp billions, especially in relation to money, it's sounds obscene though.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
VW.......what ??
Instructing the software engineers to come up with a way to fool the emissions test is evidence of a criminal conspiracy. We'll see if an executive is prosecuted or if it is the usual token slap-on-the wrist corporate fine.
VW.......what ??
Doesn't say much for theor intelligence for them not to realise that sooner or later they would be found out and that the onsequences would be catastrophic fr the brand. What about skoda and audi I wonder.
VW.......what ??
The bit of the background which strikes me as unbelievable is that the USA car market only buys 45% home-made. Most cars sold in the USA are foreign-built.
There's a sentence in today's Washington Post which refers to "the junkiest clown cars ever to blow a head gasket on an American freeway: the Chevette, the Nova, the Volare, the Escort. Today’s generation of car buyers has forgotten Pearl Harbor but remembers the Ford Pinto" - and then the US legislature unbalanced the US consumer reaction to these clunkers by imposing untenable low emissions standards for diesels. Do any US-manufactured cars have diesel engines?
If you have nothing domestic left to tax, stick uncapped exemplary damage fines on foreigners instead, which is exactly what happened to BP for just holding someone else's hot potato when the top blew off it. Royal Dutch Shell just backed out of the US market this week rather than put up with that risk after Hillary Clinton cast her attention on them.
There's a sentence in today's Washington Post which refers to "the junkiest clown cars ever to blow a head gasket on an American freeway: the Chevette, the Nova, the Volare, the Escort. Today’s generation of car buyers has forgotten Pearl Harbor but remembers the Ford Pinto" - and then the US legislature unbalanced the US consumer reaction to these clunkers by imposing untenable low emissions standards for diesels. Do any US-manufactured cars have diesel engines?
If you have nothing domestic left to tax, stick uncapped exemplary damage fines on foreigners instead, which is exactly what happened to BP for just holding someone else's hot potato when the top blew off it. Royal Dutch Shell just backed out of the US market this week rather than put up with that risk after Hillary Clinton cast her attention on them.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
VW.......what ??
spot;1486964 wrote: The bit of the background which strikes me as unbelievable is that the USA car market only buys 45% home-made. Most cars sold in the USA are foreign-built.
There's a sentence in today's Washington Post which refers to "the junkiest clown cars ever to blow a head gasket on an American freeway: the Chevette, the Nova, the Volare, the Escort. Today’s generation of car buyers has forgotten Pearl Harbor but remembers the Ford Pinto" - and then the US legislature unbalanced the US consumer reaction to these clunkers by imposing untenable low emissions standards for diesels. Do any US-manufactured cars have diesel engines?
If you have nothing domestic left to tax, stick uncapped exemplary damage fines on foreigners instead, which is exactly what happened to BP for just holding someone else's hot potato when the top blew off it. Royal Dutch Shell just backed out of the US market this week rather than put up with that risk after Hillary Clinton cast her attention on them.
Typical reactionary drivel. Corporate America has been blaming the unions for the downfall of American manufacturing since the first company moved to Mexico, in the 80s
True, the Union Leadership failed to think things through when they refused to negotiate more profitable wage agreements.
Simply put, Greed took the reins on both sides of the table. and the Japanese companies stepped into the resulting vacuum. They were quickly followed by the Germans and Swedes, and later the Koreans.
What's left of the Big Three finally learned to build cars again, but it has Proved too little, too late, because the market is far more crowded than it used to be when they held their fortress in Detroit.
In short, it was not Foreign cars that killed Detroit, but short-sighted self interest.
There's a sentence in today's Washington Post which refers to "the junkiest clown cars ever to blow a head gasket on an American freeway: the Chevette, the Nova, the Volare, the Escort. Today’s generation of car buyers has forgotten Pearl Harbor but remembers the Ford Pinto" - and then the US legislature unbalanced the US consumer reaction to these clunkers by imposing untenable low emissions standards for diesels. Do any US-manufactured cars have diesel engines?
If you have nothing domestic left to tax, stick uncapped exemplary damage fines on foreigners instead, which is exactly what happened to BP for just holding someone else's hot potato when the top blew off it. Royal Dutch Shell just backed out of the US market this week rather than put up with that risk after Hillary Clinton cast her attention on them.
Typical reactionary drivel. Corporate America has been blaming the unions for the downfall of American manufacturing since the first company moved to Mexico, in the 80s
True, the Union Leadership failed to think things through when they refused to negotiate more profitable wage agreements.
Simply put, Greed took the reins on both sides of the table. and the Japanese companies stepped into the resulting vacuum. They were quickly followed by the Germans and Swedes, and later the Koreans.
What's left of the Big Three finally learned to build cars again, but it has Proved too little, too late, because the market is far more crowded than it used to be when they held their fortress in Detroit.
In short, it was not Foreign cars that killed Detroit, but short-sighted self interest.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
VW.......what ??
LarsMac;1486968 wrote: Typical reactionary drivel. Corporate America has been blaming the unions for the downfall of American manufacturing since the first company moved to Mexico, in the 80s
True, the Union Leadership failed to think things through when they refused to negotiate more profitable wage agreements.
Simply put, Greed took the reins on both sides of the table. and the Japanese companies stepped into the resulting vacuum. They were quickly followed by the Germans and Swedes, and later the Koreans.
What's left of the Big Three finally learned to build cars again, but it has Proved too little, too late, because the market is far more crowded than it used to be when they held their fortress in Detroit.
In short, it was not Foreign cars that killed Detroit, but short-sighted self interest.
A similar story could be told about British motorcycles in the 60's and 70's. Triumph, BSA and Norton all 'rested on their laurels' and ignored the new, cheaper, more efficient Japanese manufacturers, led by Honda-it's taken nearly 3 decades for Norton and Triumph to recover a half-decent market share! The many strikes at Triumph merely aided the demise....
I wonder where V-dub will go from here? I believe that several models of Audi are also affected.
True, the Union Leadership failed to think things through when they refused to negotiate more profitable wage agreements.
Simply put, Greed took the reins on both sides of the table. and the Japanese companies stepped into the resulting vacuum. They were quickly followed by the Germans and Swedes, and later the Koreans.
What's left of the Big Three finally learned to build cars again, but it has Proved too little, too late, because the market is far more crowded than it used to be when they held their fortress in Detroit.
In short, it was not Foreign cars that killed Detroit, but short-sighted self interest.
A similar story could be told about British motorcycles in the 60's and 70's. Triumph, BSA and Norton all 'rested on their laurels' and ignored the new, cheaper, more efficient Japanese manufacturers, led by Honda-it's taken nearly 3 decades for Norton and Triumph to recover a half-decent market share! The many strikes at Triumph merely aided the demise....
I wonder where V-dub will go from here? I believe that several models of Audi are also affected.
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
VW.......what ??
£15,750.
Today's Norton, from the factory, including tax.
I would, I fear, think twice.
Today's Norton, from the factory, including tax.
I would, I fear, think twice.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
VW.......what ??
spot;1486977 wrote: £15,750.
Today's Norton, from the factory, including tax.
I would, I fear, think twice.
It IS pretty pricey, isn't it? I'm with you on that, Spot. Think I'll stick to 'rice-burners'....
Today's Norton, from the factory, including tax.
I would, I fear, think twice.
It IS pretty pricey, isn't it? I'm with you on that, Spot. Think I'll stick to 'rice-burners'....
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
VW.......what ??
While you're here - who or what IS "Ronnie Pickering"? I red the entire BBC news item and I'm no wiser than when I started.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
VW.......what ??
Sounds like one of those 'Gypsy' bare-knuckle fighters!
Ronnie Pickering Hull driver road rage video goes viral - BBC News
I do know WHAT he is though....He's a 'winker'!
Ronnie Pickering Hull driver road rage video goes viral - BBC News
I do know WHAT he is though....He's a 'winker'!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
VW.......what ??
I'm concerned that other clean diesel vehicles will be tarnished by VW's actions in a rush to judgement by the media. That would be unfortunate.
VW.......what ??
VW Diesels have been superior for a couple of decades, now. I don't think this will hurt sales much.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
VW.......what ??
Wandrin;1487007 wrote: I'm concerned that other clean diesel vehicles will be tarnished by VW's actions in a rush to judgement by the media. That would be unfortunate.
You don't feel Mr Musk's current offering will set them aside? It strikes me he's about the only chap on the planet who has a new-form working product in the field of transportation, and he's done it twice. Were I to buy a car, or seek a trip to orbit, he's the man I'd ring.
Supercar in sheep's clothing? Driving the Tesla Model S P85D
Even home-charging at a domestic electric rate, that's below $10 per 100 miles. Even in the USA that beats the price of diesel.
You don't feel Mr Musk's current offering will set them aside? It strikes me he's about the only chap on the planet who has a new-form working product in the field of transportation, and he's done it twice. Were I to buy a car, or seek a trip to orbit, he's the man I'd ring.
Supercar in sheep's clothing? Driving the Tesla Model S P85D
Even home-charging at a domestic electric rate, that's below $10 per 100 miles. Even in the USA that beats the price of diesel.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
VW.......what ??
If I owned one of these doofered VW cars which has the software to switch to lowest emissions when under test and then full performance / high emissions when on the road, the last thing I'd do is take it in for recall. The one outcome you can guarantee from a recall adjustment to this problem is that your car will end up with lower performance. Why would anyone volunteer for that.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
VW.......what ??
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
VW.......what ??
Sounds like a plan to me, tudedog! Governments con folk all the time, why not car manufacturers too? :wah:
What amuses me is that they've got away with fooling a multi-govt. legislated test for so long!
What amuses me is that they've got away with fooling a multi-govt. legislated test for so long!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
VW.......what ??
spot;1487016 wrote: You don't feel Mr Musk's current offering will set them aside? It strikes me he's about the only chap on the planet who has a new-form working product in the field of transportation, and he's done it twice. Were I to buy a car, or seek a trip to orbit, he's the man I'd ring.
Supercar in sheep's clothing? Driving the Tesla Model S P85D
Even home-charging at a domestic electric rate, that's below $10 per 100 miles. Even in the USA that beats the price of diesel.
I test drove a Tesla. If money were no object and the mileage between charges was greater, I'd be very tempted.
Supercar in sheep's clothing? Driving the Tesla Model S P85D
Even home-charging at a domestic electric rate, that's below $10 per 100 miles. Even in the USA that beats the price of diesel.
I test drove a Tesla. If money were no object and the mileage between charges was greater, I'd be very tempted.
VW.......what ??
Electric cars are definitely a 'work in progress', but they're getting there by degrees. Not so many years ago, electric cars were pretty slow, and didn't have a useful range, plus charge time was huge. In another 5-10 years, I think we'll start to see some useful electric motors making their entree....
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
VW.......what ??
The review I linked to suggests the electric motor is already there. Additional charging areas at gas stations are needed, faster battery charging is needed - at the moment you have to pull up for an hour and subject yourself to a McBurper 2500-calorie choke-hold-and-chips[1] before you can resume your journey. But the electric motor is extraordinary.
[1:] These are not chips at we English know them, they are thin stringed-out damp vile reconstituted starch over which vegetable oil has been misted and an inadequate heat applied. They are more often referred to in their country of origin as "Freedom Fries".
[1:] These are not chips at we English know them, they are thin stringed-out damp vile reconstituted starch over which vegetable oil has been misted and an inadequate heat applied. They are more often referred to in their country of origin as "Freedom Fries".
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
VW.......what ??
spot;1487049 wrote: The review I linked to suggests the electric motor is already there. Additional charging areas at gas stations are needed, faster battery charging is needed - at the moment you have to pull up for an hour and subject yourself to a McBurper 2500-calorie choke-hold-and-chips[1] before you can resume your journey. But the electric motor is extraordinary.
[1:] These are not chips at we English know them, they are thin stringed-out damp vile reconstituted starch over which vegetable oil has been misted and an inadequate heat applied. They are more often referred to in their country of origin as "Freedom Fries".
The electric cars are fast enough already; my only 'beefs' are range and recharge time. When these cars can 'boost charge'to full capacity in 20 minutes or less, without damaging the capacity or life-span of the power-cells, that may well circumvent the need to scoff McBelcher meals whilst you wait, which will doubtless be healthier for everyone!
Whilst we're on the sordid subject of McBelcher, wouldn't it have been more honest of them to play an air-raid siren sound-effect, followed by the slogan "I'm enduring it", rather than that inane whistle, followed by "I'm loving it"?
As regards your footnote;
[1:] These are not chips at we English know them, they are thin stringed-out damp vile reconstituted starch over which vegetable oil has been misted and an inadequate heat applied. They are more often referred to in their country of origin as "Freedom Fries".
Are they hinting at the tendency to liberate the contents of the stomach?
[1:] These are not chips at we English know them, they are thin stringed-out damp vile reconstituted starch over which vegetable oil has been misted and an inadequate heat applied. They are more often referred to in their country of origin as "Freedom Fries".
The electric cars are fast enough already; my only 'beefs' are range and recharge time. When these cars can 'boost charge'to full capacity in 20 minutes or less, without damaging the capacity or life-span of the power-cells, that may well circumvent the need to scoff McBelcher meals whilst you wait, which will doubtless be healthier for everyone!
Whilst we're on the sordid subject of McBelcher, wouldn't it have been more honest of them to play an air-raid siren sound-effect, followed by the slogan "I'm enduring it", rather than that inane whistle, followed by "I'm loving it"?
As regards your footnote;
[1:] These are not chips at we English know them, they are thin stringed-out damp vile reconstituted starch over which vegetable oil has been misted and an inadequate heat applied. They are more often referred to in their country of origin as "Freedom Fries".
Are they hinting at the tendency to liberate the contents of the stomach?
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
VW.......what ??
The sad thing is the diesel engine can be used with other fuels besides well diesel - it's a compression engine. There's a long way to go in it's development and the debate about emissions had now entered the tabloid sphere. What particulates there are are arguable a great deal less harmful than those from petrol engines. So far as I am aware there are no studies showing higher incidences of chest complaints or cancers from those constanty arounsd dieel engines like bus and railway workers omn the nother hand breathing in petrol fumes -used to be literally toxic.
VW.......what ??
Elon Musk says that Teslas will soon have a 600 mile charge range. Meanwhile, a friend who works at one of the larger charging station mfrs says they are selling them almost as fast as they can make them. One of the nearby towns just installed some free charging stations in their downtown area and some other towns are following suit. It will be interesting to watch.
VW.......what ??
Wandrin;1487077 wrote: Elon Musk says that Teslas will soon have a 600 mile charge range. Meanwhile, a friend who works at one of the larger charging station mfrs says they are selling them almost as fast as they can make them. One of the nearby towns just installed some free charging stations in their downtown area and some other towns are following suit. It will be interesting to watch.
600 mile range would be decent. We average 550 to 700 miles a day on some of our runs. If we can make 500-600 miles in a day, and charge overnight at the hotel. the car could make a decent road ranger.
600 mile range would be decent. We average 550 to 700 miles a day on some of our runs. If we can make 500-600 miles in a day, and charge overnight at the hotel. the car could make a decent road ranger.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
VW.......what ??
LarsMac;1487078 wrote: 600 mile range would be decent. We average 550 to 700 miles a day on some of our runs. If we can make 500-600 miles in a day, and charge overnight at the hotel. the car could make a decent road ranger.
Didn't realise the Tesla had such a good range on one charge. Does this range include hills? And start/stop? Or was it tested on a flat test-track in continuous motion??
If it does include hills, and start/stop, then I take back my 'useful range' comment!
Didn't realise the Tesla had such a good range on one charge. Does this range include hills? And start/stop? Or was it tested on a flat test-track in continuous motion??
If it does include hills, and start/stop, then I take back my 'useful range' comment!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
VW.......what ??
Smaug;1487169 wrote: Didn't realise the Tesla had such a good range on one charge. Does this range include hills? And start/stop? Or was it tested on a flat test-track in continuous motion??
If it does include hills, and start/stop, then I take back my 'useful range' comment!
He said "will soon have"
Unknown exactly what that will mean. To be useful that would require the range to cover any traffic conditions.
For the moment, the average electric has up to 400 mile range, assuming moderate driving speed, moderate atmospheric conditions and and "normal road conditions. (Meaning, I would probably get about 200 miles out of the beastie before having to plug it in for 8 hours.)
There are several Teslas on the streets around Boulder, and I have yet to encounter one on the Highway between Cheyenne and Colorado Springs, where average speed is 80 mph. They have one that can reach speeds of 140 mph very quickly, but how long can they sustain highway speeds? Or can they make the trip from Denver to Grand Junction (about 260 miles with several significant elevation changes at relatively high traffic speeds) in one run?
distance over time, regardless of terrain, weather, and traffic conditions. That is really the key to a viable product.
If it does include hills, and start/stop, then I take back my 'useful range' comment!
He said "will soon have"
Unknown exactly what that will mean. To be useful that would require the range to cover any traffic conditions.
For the moment, the average electric has up to 400 mile range, assuming moderate driving speed, moderate atmospheric conditions and and "normal road conditions. (Meaning, I would probably get about 200 miles out of the beastie before having to plug it in for 8 hours.)
There are several Teslas on the streets around Boulder, and I have yet to encounter one on the Highway between Cheyenne and Colorado Springs, where average speed is 80 mph. They have one that can reach speeds of 140 mph very quickly, but how long can they sustain highway speeds? Or can they make the trip from Denver to Grand Junction (about 260 miles with several significant elevation changes at relatively high traffic speeds) in one run?
distance over time, regardless of terrain, weather, and traffic conditions. That is really the key to a viable product.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence