spot;1488062 wrote: There's a string of citations at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timing_of ... ng_Muslims but I've not looked any of them up. They're as basic a set of facts about Islam as the Gospels are to Christianity.
The first female Muslim, possibly the first Muslim convert. Khadijah or Khadīja bint Khuwaylid : 555-620 ce. So, shortly after 610, roughly. Definitely well before 650 then. Often the trouble with trying to tie certain events down to a definite decade, and that's 'AD', as opposed to 'BC'! As I said earlier, decades become far less relevant the further back you go in time, and damn hard to 'pin down' with any certitude. I think that's about as close as we'll come to the rise of Islam, TBH.
Thanks for the link, BTW.
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
AnneBoleyn;1488063 wrote: Only if 'He' won!!!
The winners always write the history....
The winners always write the history....
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
AnneBoleyn;1488063 wrote: Only if 'He' won!!!
There is also that element. But then, what about the Torah - supposedly written by those who would be freed from bondage? Surely 'they' are the losers by remaining in bondage at the time it was written?
There is also that element. But then, what about the Torah - supposedly written by those who would be freed from bondage? Surely 'they' are the losers by remaining in bondage at the time it was written?
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
FourPart;1488085 wrote: There is also that element. But then, what about the Torah - supposedly written by those who would be freed from bondage? Surely 'they' are the losers by remaining in bondage at the time it was written?
The Torah (the first five books of the Old Testament) was - traditionally, I'm not sure what level of factuality you want to introduce to your comment - entirely written by Moses, at which point the Chosen People weren't in bondage at all, they had by then escaped Egypt and the Pharaoh. If you want a more sensible version of the author then the whole of the Torah was compiled by the Scribes of Ezra and again, the Chosen People weren't in bondage at all then either: the Torah only goes as far as the beginning of the rule of the Judges, so none of the Babylonian captivity from which the Scribes of Ezra had been released comes into it.
Who do you think wrote the Torah who would be freed from bondage, and remained in bondage at the time it was written?
The Torah (the first five books of the Old Testament) was - traditionally, I'm not sure what level of factuality you want to introduce to your comment - entirely written by Moses, at which point the Chosen People weren't in bondage at all, they had by then escaped Egypt and the Pharaoh. If you want a more sensible version of the author then the whole of the Torah was compiled by the Scribes of Ezra and again, the Chosen People weren't in bondage at all then either: the Torah only goes as far as the beginning of the rule of the Judges, so none of the Babylonian captivity from which the Scribes of Ezra had been released comes into it.
Who do you think wrote the Torah who would be freed from bondage, and remained in bondage at the time it was written?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Rather than go into the ins & outs of it all, I think this discussion pretty much covers what I mean:
Why do the Jews in John 8:33 say that they have never been enslaved? - Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange
Why do the Jews in John 8:33 say that they have never been enslaved? - Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
FourPart;1488090 wrote: Rather than go into the ins & outs of it all, I think this discussion pretty much covers what I mean:
Why do the Jews in John 8:33 say that they have never been enslaved? - Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange
The "correct answer" (!) says "Forgetful of their servitude in Egypt, Babylon, and at that very time to the Romans, they indignantly deny that they were ever in bondage to any man" and refers to a discussion during the lifetime of Jesus.
Your post is about the writers of the Torah.
Do you really think the Torah was written in the lifetime of Jesus?
Why do the Jews in John 8:33 say that they have never been enslaved? - Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange
The "correct answer" (!) says "Forgetful of their servitude in Egypt, Babylon, and at that very time to the Romans, they indignantly deny that they were ever in bondage to any man" and refers to a discussion during the lifetime of Jesus.
Your post is about the writers of the Torah.
Do you really think the Torah was written in the lifetime of Jesus?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
You are discussing something that written in the time of Jesus. To make a comparison do you think the writers of the New Testament had the Internet.
The discussion from the NT refers to the Torah that had already been written - at the time when the Torah was 'The' Bible - no Old or New Testament. The statement points out that they had, indeed, been in bondage in Egypt & Babylon & adds that even at the current time they were in bondage to the Romans. Yet the writer points out that they deny this servitude, even though it is written that they were. "Let my people go" seems to ring a bell as a quote. The Jews are still awaiting a Messiah. For why? What has that Messiah to offer them?
The discussion from the NT refers to the Torah that had already been written - at the time when the Torah was 'The' Bible - no Old or New Testament. The statement points out that they had, indeed, been in bondage in Egypt & Babylon & adds that even at the current time they were in bondage to the Romans. Yet the writer points out that they deny this servitude, even though it is written that they were. "Let my people go" seems to ring a bell as a quote. The Jews are still awaiting a Messiah. For why? What has that Messiah to offer them?
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
FourPart;1488096 wrote: You are discussing something that written in the time of Jesus. To make a comparison do you think the writers of the New Testament had the Internet.
The discussion from the NT refers to the Torah that had already been written - at the time when the Torah was 'The' Bible - no Old or New Testament. The statement points out that they had, indeed, been in bondage in Egypt & Babylon & adds that even at the current time they were in bondage to the Romans. Yet the writer points out that they deny this servitude, even though it is written that they were. "Let my people go" seems to ring a bell as a quote. The Jews are still awaiting a Messiah. For why? What has that Messiah to offer them?
Go on then, I'll ask. In what way did the writers of the Torah remain in bondage at the time it was written. Because what you wrote, and what I queried, was that "the writers of the Torah remained in bondage at the time it was written". And it's that which had me puzzled, and still has me puzzled, and we both agree that the people in question - the writers of the Torah - were long dead by the time of Jesus.
Perhaps I misunderstand what "in bondage" means. Perhaps it's some sort of code. Perhaps it doesn't refer to slavery in exile, as in Egypt and Babylon, at all.
The Torah, for the sake of clarity, wasn't the Old Testament. It wasn't the Psalms, or the books of the Judges up to Samuel and Eli, or the books of the Kings and the Chronicles, or the books of the major prophets or the minor prophets. The Torah was, is and always will be the first five books of the Old Testament. That's what the word Torah refers to - the five books of the Law.
The discussion from the NT refers to the Torah that had already been written - at the time when the Torah was 'The' Bible - no Old or New Testament. The statement points out that they had, indeed, been in bondage in Egypt & Babylon & adds that even at the current time they were in bondage to the Romans. Yet the writer points out that they deny this servitude, even though it is written that they were. "Let my people go" seems to ring a bell as a quote. The Jews are still awaiting a Messiah. For why? What has that Messiah to offer them?
Go on then, I'll ask. In what way did the writers of the Torah remain in bondage at the time it was written. Because what you wrote, and what I queried, was that "the writers of the Torah remained in bondage at the time it was written". And it's that which had me puzzled, and still has me puzzled, and we both agree that the people in question - the writers of the Torah - were long dead by the time of Jesus.
Perhaps I misunderstand what "in bondage" means. Perhaps it's some sort of code. Perhaps it doesn't refer to slavery in exile, as in Egypt and Babylon, at all.
The Torah, for the sake of clarity, wasn't the Old Testament. It wasn't the Psalms, or the books of the Judges up to Samuel and Eli, or the books of the Kings and the Chronicles, or the books of the major prophets or the minor prophets. The Torah was, is and always will be the first five books of the Old Testament. That's what the word Torah refers to - the five books of the Law.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
spot;1488099 wrote: Go on then, I'll ask. In what way did the writers of the Torah remain in bondage at the time it was written. Because what you wrote, and what I queried, was that "the writers of the Torah remained in bondage at the time it was written". And it's that which had me puzzled, and still has me puzzled, and we both agree that the people in question - the writers of the Torah - were long dead by the time of Jesus.
Perhaps I misunderstand what "in bondage" means. Perhaps it's some sort of code. Perhaps it doesn't refer to slavery in exile, as in Egypt and Babylon, at all.
The Torah, for the sake of clarity, wasn't the Old Testament. It wasn't the Psalms, or the books of the Judges up to Samuel and Eli, or the books of the Kings and the Chronicles, or the books of the major prophets or the minor prophets. The Torah was, is and always will be the first five books of the Old Testament. That's what the word Torah refers to - the five books of the Law.
Theory is that the the Torah was, prior to the Babylonian Captivity, a verbal tradition. Memorized, and passed on from generation to generation, and that it was during the period of captivity that the scholars began writing it down, to preserve the words, rather than relying upon the common memory.
Perhaps I misunderstand what "in bondage" means. Perhaps it's some sort of code. Perhaps it doesn't refer to slavery in exile, as in Egypt and Babylon, at all.
The Torah, for the sake of clarity, wasn't the Old Testament. It wasn't the Psalms, or the books of the Judges up to Samuel and Eli, or the books of the Kings and the Chronicles, or the books of the major prophets or the minor prophets. The Torah was, is and always will be the first five books of the Old Testament. That's what the word Torah refers to - the five books of the Law.
Theory is that the the Torah was, prior to the Babylonian Captivity, a verbal tradition. Memorized, and passed on from generation to generation, and that it was during the period of captivity that the scholars began writing it down, to preserve the words, rather than relying upon the common memory.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
LarsMac;1488113 wrote: Theory is that the the Torah was, prior to the Babylonian Captivity, a verbal tradition. Memorized, and passed on from generation to generation, and that it was during the period of captivity that the scholars began writing it down, to preserve the words, rather than relying upon the common memory.
If they were transcribing in captivity then they can't have been speaking of their captivity. If, on the other hand, they were writing fresh stories about the Babylonian captivity then they weren't, at that same moment, writing the Torah, they were writing Kings and Chronicles and Nehemiah. The bible does, in the book of Ezra, say they did all this transcribing after the end of the Babylonian captivity, in Jerusalem, rather than earlier in Babylon, but I'd agree it's hard to know which position is more likely.
Whichever source you look to as the authorship of the Torah, whether it's the people who passed the stories down by mouth or the people who transcribed those oral copies to writing, the first oral tellers of the Torah, before whom there was no Torah, were not captives. The story they told was of their escape from Egyptian captivity, and nobody would doubt that the oral Torah existed, as unassociated stories that had never yet been brought together, before the Babylonian exile.
If they were transcribing in captivity then they can't have been speaking of their captivity. If, on the other hand, they were writing fresh stories about the Babylonian captivity then they weren't, at that same moment, writing the Torah, they were writing Kings and Chronicles and Nehemiah. The bible does, in the book of Ezra, say they did all this transcribing after the end of the Babylonian captivity, in Jerusalem, rather than earlier in Babylon, but I'd agree it's hard to know which position is more likely.
Whichever source you look to as the authorship of the Torah, whether it's the people who passed the stories down by mouth or the people who transcribed those oral copies to writing, the first oral tellers of the Torah, before whom there was no Torah, were not captives. The story they told was of their escape from Egyptian captivity, and nobody would doubt that the oral Torah existed, as unassociated stories that had never yet been brought together, before the Babylonian exile.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
spot;1488099 wrote:
The Torah, for the sake of clarity, wasn't the Old Testament. It wasn't the Psalms, or the books of the Judges up to Samuel and Eli, or the books of the Kings and the Chronicles, or the books of the major prophets or the minor prophets. The Torah was, is and always will be the first five books of the Old Testament. That's what the word Torah refers to - the five books of the Law.
In which case, that was my misunderstanding. I had understood the Torah to be the original term for the Old Testament as previous to the New Testament then it would simply have been the Testament, which I thought was what the Torah was.
The Torah, for the sake of clarity, wasn't the Old Testament. It wasn't the Psalms, or the books of the Judges up to Samuel and Eli, or the books of the Kings and the Chronicles, or the books of the major prophets or the minor prophets. The Torah was, is and always will be the first five books of the Old Testament. That's what the word Torah refers to - the five books of the Law.
In which case, that was my misunderstanding. I had understood the Torah to be the original term for the Old Testament as previous to the New Testament then it would simply have been the Testament, which I thought was what the Torah was.
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
spot;1487982 wrote: Why should we want to "bring it to heel"? You speak as though any other Monotheist religion provides a better example of equality for women than Islam.
The error isn't in Islam, the error is in Monotheism. Focusing on just one of its expressions is to deliberately miss the point. If you say Islam is inherently anti-feminist, instead of saying all of Monotheism is inherently anti-feminist, you just start a these-say those-say comparative distraction. The enemy in this case is anti-feminism regardless of its source.
The day the Cardinals elect an acknowledged female pope from among their own would be a good day, but I'll not hold my breath waiting for it.
PS. I still can't watch your blasted Youtube propaganda. Write it down. We are not a television broadcaster.
My views about Christian misogyny are well known and my focus, because of the large number of Muslim immigrants and the problems that is causing, was why I ignored Christianity for the moment. The West has basically already brought Christianity to a more civilized state while Islam is still living in the Dark Ages.
Regards
DL
The error isn't in Islam, the error is in Monotheism. Focusing on just one of its expressions is to deliberately miss the point. If you say Islam is inherently anti-feminist, instead of saying all of Monotheism is inherently anti-feminist, you just start a these-say those-say comparative distraction. The enemy in this case is anti-feminism regardless of its source.
The day the Cardinals elect an acknowledged female pope from among their own would be a good day, but I'll not hold my breath waiting for it.
PS. I still can't watch your blasted Youtube propaganda. Write it down. We are not a television broadcaster.
My views about Christian misogyny are well known and my focus, because of the large number of Muslim immigrants and the problems that is causing, was why I ignored Christianity for the moment. The West has basically already brought Christianity to a more civilized state while Islam is still living in the Dark Ages.
Regards
DL
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
LarsMac;1487981 wrote: White Angst. I love it.
I guess that you are not aware of what has been going on in the Netherlands.
If you are a Brit then it must be white angst to you that they just denied Islam permission to build the largest Mosque in all of Britain.
Regards
DL
I guess that you are not aware of what has been going on in the Netherlands.
If you are a Brit then it must be white angst to you that they just denied Islam permission to build the largest Mosque in all of Britain.
Regards
DL
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Betty Boop;1487983 wrote: I'll watch the videos later, too busy at the moment still fighting for EQUAL RIGHTS.
You are very misguided if you believe we actually have equal rights across the board within any other society!
I am aware that the West is not yet walking its talk in that area but the West has a much better mind set than what Islam has to offer women. At least we have not institutionalized child brides or set proper rules to beat our women by.
Regards
DL
You are very misguided if you believe we actually have equal rights across the board within any other society!
I am aware that the West is not yet walking its talk in that area but the West has a much better mind set than what Islam has to offer women. At least we have not institutionalized child brides or set proper rules to beat our women by.
Regards
DL
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Smaug;1487985 wrote: Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Definitely not! In many respects (though not all), Islam is stuck in the 4th century. No matter what the Quran or the Bible spout, women ARE equal to men. Any other view on this is sexism, pure and simple.
Pickthall4:34
"Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other,
In what way do men excel over women, except in violence, and physical strength? There are plenty of bright, rich, influential WOMEN in business; they're not all cooking and making beds! In general, women have a strong instinct to nurture; this is VITAL to the continued survival of our species. The reason MAN feels he is superior is almost certainly down to testosterone-fuelled ego!
As a man, I have to say that sexism is unacceptable in any form, and needs to be consigned to history's rubbish bin!
I agree.
That is partially why I push for a ban on the various head and face mask clothing that Muslim men basically force their women to wear. I see it as a sign of ownership or slavery that should not be seen or tolerated in the free world.
Regards
DL
Definitely not! In many respects (though not all), Islam is stuck in the 4th century. No matter what the Quran or the Bible spout, women ARE equal to men. Any other view on this is sexism, pure and simple.
Pickthall4:34
"Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other,
In what way do men excel over women, except in violence, and physical strength? There are plenty of bright, rich, influential WOMEN in business; they're not all cooking and making beds! In general, women have a strong instinct to nurture; this is VITAL to the continued survival of our species. The reason MAN feels he is superior is almost certainly down to testosterone-fuelled ego!
As a man, I have to say that sexism is unacceptable in any form, and needs to be consigned to history's rubbish bin!
I agree.
That is partially why I push for a ban on the various head and face mask clothing that Muslim men basically force their women to wear. I see it as a sign of ownership or slavery that should not be seen or tolerated in the free world.
Regards
DL
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
spot;1487991 wrote: I shall be interested to see a woman take any Gender-Transparent World athletics record, wake me up when it happens.
Equality under the law is not equality of outcome.
Turn what you said from brute strength to ability to learn or brain power and you would see why boys drop out of school in such large numbers compared to girls.
What would rather be, bright or a brute?
Regards
DL
Equality under the law is not equality of outcome.
Turn what you said from brute strength to ability to learn or brain power and you would see why boys drop out of school in such large numbers compared to girls.
What would rather be, bright or a brute?
Regards
DL
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Smaug;1487994 wrote: So what has Islam ever done for us? (Apart from give us a 'ticking time-bomb' for the biggest religious upheavals we have ever seen, or will ever see?)
I get really turned on by the Afghanistan rape law.
My wife has begun to wonder why I pray to Allah but only on some nights.
Oh alright. I was just kidding.
It is the Dancing Boys that get me going. Wait. did I mention I have a wife.
Regards
DL
I get really turned on by the Afghanistan rape law.
My wife has begun to wonder why I pray to Allah but only on some nights.
Oh alright. I was just kidding.
It is the Dancing Boys that get me going. Wait. did I mention I have a wife.
Regards
DL
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
spot;1487995 wrote: Do you mean Islam, the religion? or do you mean Muslims, people who happen to have been born into an Islamic society. If you mean the religion, sod all - it's been an utter blight on the planet from its first day, as has Christianity and Judaism. If you mean Muslims, they've collectively been world-changingly creative. The renaissance in Western Europe was a direct consequence of their achievement. You owe them your entire culture, such as it is.
Actually, I think the Jews were on their way to a decent and moral religion before Christianity reversed much of what the Jews taught.
Idol worshiping Christianity is not what Jewry would have become.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS
Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."
Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.
"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."
Regards
DL
Actually, I think the Jews were on their way to a decent and moral religion before Christianity reversed much of what the Jews taught.
Idol worshiping Christianity is not what Jewry would have become.
Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS
Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."
Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.
"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."
Regards
DL
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Saint_;1488006 wrote: Pfft. Islam. Mohammad was a criminal and caravan-raiding loser. He got thrown out of his own hometown for Pete's sake. Soon wormhole technology will allow us to see the past and I'll bet that'll be the end of most religions.
I agree with your religious view but wormhole are for space travel, not time travel. If they are even for space travel that is. We still think that entering one is death to whatever enters the event horizon. We would be like bugs meeting a windshield.
Regards
DL
I agree with your religious view but wormhole are for space travel, not time travel. If they are even for space travel that is. We still think that entering one is death to whatever enters the event horizon. We would be like bugs meeting a windshield.
Regards
DL
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
LarsMac;1488011 wrote: You cannot blame Islam for the attitude men have against women. Women have been secondary beings on nearly every society in history, and the religions sprang up as a product of the social attitudes in the societies in which they were born.
Have you seen how Hindis treat their women? Catholics? even many Atheists treat their women with disdain.
Even here in the "Land of the Free" it was not until early in the last century that Canada and the US began to move towards equality.
We are only ahead of the average religion on women's equality by a few generations.
I agree that we have a ways to go but we are rolling along while Islam has its two feet firmly on the brakes.
Regards
DL
Have you seen how Hindis treat their women? Catholics? even many Atheists treat their women with disdain.
Even here in the "Land of the Free" it was not until early in the last century that Canada and the US began to move towards equality.
We are only ahead of the average religion on women's equality by a few generations.
I agree that we have a ways to go but we are rolling along while Islam has its two feet firmly on the brakes.
Regards
DL
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
spot;1488019 wrote: The Christian Crusade of 2003 against Iraq, total Muslim deaths around 1.5 million and rising.
Before you say ooh that wasn't Christians or a Crusade, think. If it had been Muslims invading a Christian country and causing that scale of death, would you blame Islam?
This word "bigot" that you take such exception to, it's not a term of abuse. It's an adjective. It means someone who selectively chooses to highlight the bad things about one group while treading lightly near another. If you don't like the label, change your behavior.
I just asked my wife and she, like me, think being labelled a bigot is a lot worse than bitch. Hmmm.
Ring any bells?
Regards
DL
Before you say ooh that wasn't Christians or a Crusade, think. If it had been Muslims invading a Christian country and causing that scale of death, would you blame Islam?
This word "bigot" that you take such exception to, it's not a term of abuse. It's an adjective. It means someone who selectively chooses to highlight the bad things about one group while treading lightly near another. If you don't like the label, change your behavior.
I just asked my wife and she, like me, think being labelled a bigot is a lot worse than bitch. Hmmm.
Ring any bells?
Regards
DL
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Gnostic Christian Bishop;1488275 wrote: I agree that we have a ways to go but we are rolling along while Islam has its two feet firmly on the brakes.
Regards
DL
Sorry that you have such an ill perception of the Muslim world. There are many societies where women have advanced, and many of those are in predominantly Muslim regions. Meanwhile, there are Christian and other societies where women are still second-class (if that high in stature) citizens. It's not really about Islam. It is about backward-thinking people of every kind.
Regards
DL
Sorry that you have such an ill perception of the Muslim world. There are many societies where women have advanced, and many of those are in predominantly Muslim regions. Meanwhile, there are Christian and other societies where women are still second-class (if that high in stature) citizens. It's not really about Islam. It is about backward-thinking people of every kind.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Gnostic Christian Bishop;1488266 wrote: The West has basically already brought Christianity to a more civilized state
That's a point of view. Insupportable, but a point of view. This is not a relative issue and "more" is not an excuse for "un".
The day the Cardinals elect an acknowledged female pope from among their own would be a good day, but I'll not hold my breath waiting for it. Their current position is unethical and immoral.
You're still flinging youtube clips explicitly at me, in response to my posts, instead of making relevant factual statements, and I keep telling you I'm incapable of using them.
That's a point of view. Insupportable, but a point of view. This is not a relative issue and "more" is not an excuse for "un".
The day the Cardinals elect an acknowledged female pope from among their own would be a good day, but I'll not hold my breath waiting for it. Their current position is unethical and immoral.
You're still flinging youtube clips explicitly at me, in response to my posts, instead of making relevant factual statements, and I keep telling you I'm incapable of using them.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
spot;1488007 wrote: You took an extremist?
Westboro Baptist Church
"If you want, I can supply you with MANY other examples; it's just a question of how much is enough."
Or we could exclude extremists from the discussion, if you'd rather.
What you can't say is that your example is typical but mine is fringe.
Just how many people has the despicable/asswipe of a people, Westboro Church killed Spot? 100??.....200??....1000??
Westboro Baptist Church
"If you want, I can supply you with MANY other examples; it's just a question of how much is enough."
Or we could exclude extremists from the discussion, if you'd rather.
What you can't say is that your example is typical but mine is fringe.
Just how many people has the despicable/asswipe of a people, Westboro Church killed Spot? 100??.....200??....1000??
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
BTS;1488300 wrote: Just how many people has the despicable/asswipe of a people, Westboro Church killed Spot? 100??.....200??....1000??
You can't compare one small two-generation church on one side with an entire thousand-year religion on the other. If you're comparing with Islam, the only comparable contrast is Christianity.
Just how many people has the despicable/asswipe of a people, Christianity, killed? Hundreds and hundreds of millions, one by one by one, which is why Christianity is unforgivable for all time. It has been far and away the most lethal belief system ever invented. Given the choice between the bubonic plague and Christianity, I'll take the virus any day.
It's not surprising Christianity is the core of American fundamentalism.
You can't compare one small two-generation church on one side with an entire thousand-year religion on the other. If you're comparing with Islam, the only comparable contrast is Christianity.
Just how many people has the despicable/asswipe of a people, Christianity, killed? Hundreds and hundreds of millions, one by one by one, which is why Christianity is unforgivable for all time. It has been far and away the most lethal belief system ever invented. Given the choice between the bubonic plague and Christianity, I'll take the virus any day.
It's not surprising Christianity is the core of American fundamentalism.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
spot;1488282 wrote: That's a point of view. Insupportable, but a point of view. This is not a relative issue and "more" is not an excuse for "un".
The day the Cardinals elect an acknowledged female pope from among their own would be a good day, but I'll not hold my breath waiting for it. Their current position is unethical and immoral.
You're still flinging youtube clips explicitly at me, in response to my posts, instead of making relevant factual statements, and I keep telling you I'm incapable of using them.
Why unsupportable? The enlightnment refers to the period when the west started moving away from religuious dominance and the rule of kings -ending the abuse of church and state and towards secular states.
The West has basically already brought Christianity to a more civilized state
Don't normally agree with most of what he says but I think he make a good point. I too will hold my breath for a female pope or even the catholic church acclpting women have a right to choose when to have babies rather than leaving it up to god.
Slavery ended because the secular notion of the rights of man not because someone read it in the bible. Equality for women does not stem from the bible or the koran it's a rational concept that belies the myths of religion.
posted by spot
The error isn't in Islam, the error is in Monotheism.
Maybe just theism?
posted by Larsmac
Have you seen how Hindis treat their women? Catholics? even many Atheists treat their women with disdain.
Even here in the "Land of the Free" it was not until early in the last century that Canada and the US began to move towards equality.
We are only ahead of the average religion on women's equality by a few generations.
All the arguments against rights for women stemmed from an innate cultural belief that women were inferior to men, now where did that cutural belief come from?
The day the Cardinals elect an acknowledged female pope from among their own would be a good day, but I'll not hold my breath waiting for it. Their current position is unethical and immoral.
You're still flinging youtube clips explicitly at me, in response to my posts, instead of making relevant factual statements, and I keep telling you I'm incapable of using them.
Why unsupportable? The enlightnment refers to the period when the west started moving away from religuious dominance and the rule of kings -ending the abuse of church and state and towards secular states.
The West has basically already brought Christianity to a more civilized state
Don't normally agree with most of what he says but I think he make a good point. I too will hold my breath for a female pope or even the catholic church acclpting women have a right to choose when to have babies rather than leaving it up to god.
Slavery ended because the secular notion of the rights of man not because someone read it in the bible. Equality for women does not stem from the bible or the koran it's a rational concept that belies the myths of religion.
posted by spot
The error isn't in Islam, the error is in Monotheism.
Maybe just theism?
posted by Larsmac
Have you seen how Hindis treat their women? Catholics? even many Atheists treat their women with disdain.
Even here in the "Land of the Free" it was not until early in the last century that Canada and the US began to move towards equality.
We are only ahead of the average religion on women's equality by a few generations.
All the arguments against rights for women stemmed from an innate cultural belief that women were inferior to men, now where did that cutural belief come from?
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
LarsMac;1488281 wrote: Sorry that you have such an ill perception of the Muslim world. There are many societies where women have advanced, and many of those are in predominantly Muslim regions. Meanwhile, there are Christian and other societies where women are still second-class (if that high in stature) citizens. It's not really about Islam. It is about backward-thinking people of every kind.
I agree and see Islam leading the pack at this point in time.
Regards
DL
I agree and see Islam leading the pack at this point in time.
Regards
DL
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
spot;1488282 wrote: That's a point of view. Insupportable, but a point of view. This is not a relative issue and "more" is not an excuse for "un".
The day the Cardinals elect an acknowledged female pope from among their own would be a good day, but I'll not hold my breath waiting for it. Their current position is unethical and immoral.
You're still flinging youtube clips explicitly at me, in response to my posts, instead of making relevant factual statements, and I keep telling you I'm incapable of using them.
I consider lurkers when posting but will try to remember your situation.
Regards
DL
The day the Cardinals elect an acknowledged female pope from among their own would be a good day, but I'll not hold my breath waiting for it. Their current position is unethical and immoral.
You're still flinging youtube clips explicitly at me, in response to my posts, instead of making relevant factual statements, and I keep telling you I'm incapable of using them.
I consider lurkers when posting but will try to remember your situation.
Regards
DL
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Gnostic Christian Bishop
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- Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:25 pm
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
spot;1488301 wrote: You can't compare one small two-generation church on one side with an entire thousand-year religion on the other. If you're comparing with Islam, the only comparable contrast is Christianity.
Just how many people has the despicable/asswipe of a people, Christianity, killed? Hundreds and hundreds of millions, one by one by one, which is why Christianity is unforgivable for all time. It has been far and away the most lethal belief system ever invented. Given the choice between the bubonic plague and Christianity, I'll take the virus any day.
It's not surprising Christianity is the core of American fundamentalism.
You have to wonder about the hunger and need people have for a God when they stay into or join a church that is analogous to Hitler's S.S..
It is like they have never heard of pedophiles, the Inquisition or the Crusades.
Regards
DL
Just how many people has the despicable/asswipe of a people, Christianity, killed? Hundreds and hundreds of millions, one by one by one, which is why Christianity is unforgivable for all time. It has been far and away the most lethal belief system ever invented. Given the choice between the bubonic plague and Christianity, I'll take the virus any day.
It's not surprising Christianity is the core of American fundamentalism.
You have to wonder about the hunger and need people have for a God when they stay into or join a church that is analogous to Hitler's S.S..
It is like they have never heard of pedophiles, the Inquisition or the Crusades.
Regards
DL
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Although the West has been steadily heading towards the equality of women for quite a while, the biggest leap towards its goal has to have been WW2.
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
FourPart;1488310 wrote: Although the West has been steadily heading towards the equality of women for quite a while, the biggest leap towards its goal has to have been WW2.
Possibly. I would say when they won the right to vote.
Men knew before WWII that women could work as hard and productively as men. If that was your point.
Regards
DL
Possibly. I would say when they won the right to vote.
Men knew before WWII that women could work as hard and productively as men. If that was your point.
Regards
DL
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
gmc;1488302 wrote: [quote=spot]The error isn't in Islam, the error is in Monotheism. Maybe just theism?No, really. Monotheism. It is the only form of theism which invariably insists that there is an external, omnipotent, omnipresent eternal creator God which is good and judgmental. Every other form of theism, and there are lots, drops that set of dogmatic assertions, and it's that combination of monotheistic beliefs which makes Islam, Christianity, Judaism and the Church of Latter Day Saints so consistently and uniformly backward, so destructive and so despicable.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Gnostic Christian Bishop;1488311 wrote: Possibly. I would say when they won the right to vote.
Men knew before WWII that women could work as hard and productively as men. If that was your point.
Regards
DL
So, history is not your strong point either. Hmmm?
Men knew before WWII that women could work as hard and productively as men. If that was your point.
Regards
DL
So, history is not your strong point either. Hmmm?
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
LarsMac;1488332 wrote: So, history is not your strong point either. Hmmm?
A nice way to correct or inform someone.
Bite me.
Regards
DL
A nice way to correct or inform someone.
Bite me.
Regards
DL
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Gnostic Christian Bishop;1488334 wrote: A nice way to correct or inform someone.
Bite me.
Regards
DL
Well, I didn't want to start out with a lecture. You would probably deliver the same response, and I would have wasted all those words, just to get a "bite me"
Something about diminishing returns comes to mind.
Bite me.
Regards
DL
Well, I didn't want to start out with a lecture. You would probably deliver the same response, and I would have wasted all those words, just to get a "bite me"
Something about diminishing returns comes to mind.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
LarsMac;1488335 wrote: Well, I didn't want to start out with a lecture. You would probably deliver the same response, and I would have wasted all those words, just to get a "bite me"
Something about diminishing returns comes to mind.
You are correct in that the more you put, the less you are worth reading.
Regards
DL
Something about diminishing returns comes to mind.
You are correct in that the more you put, the less you are worth reading.
Regards
DL
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Funny. I've been thinking the same thing for quite some time.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Gnostic Christian Bishop;1488270 wrote: I agree.
That is partially why I push for a ban on the various head and face mask clothing that Muslim men basically force their women to wear. I see it as a sign of ownership or slavery that should not be seen or tolerated in the free world.
Regards
DL
Agreed, GCB. Women are often viewed as mere chattels, subservient to male dominace.
That is partially why I push for a ban on the various head and face mask clothing that Muslim men basically force their women to wear. I see it as a sign of ownership or slavery that should not be seen or tolerated in the free world.
Regards
DL
Agreed, GCB. Women are often viewed as mere chattels, subservient to male dominace.
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Smaug;1488361 wrote: Agreed, GCB. Women are often viewed as mere chattels, subservient to male dominace.
Particularly, I would note, in India.
Very Hindu, India.
Particularly, I would note, in India.
Very Hindu, India.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Smaug;1488361 wrote: Agreed, GCB. Women are often viewed as mere chattels, subservient to male dominace.
They are, even in the West by some. In a free world, it is everyone's 1st duty to insure that all are free and seen to be free.
We need to do this in memory of those that dieds in war for us to be free.
Regards
DL
They are, even in the West by some. In a free world, it is everyone's 1st duty to insure that all are free and seen to be free.
We need to do this in memory of those that dieds in war for us to be free.
Regards
DL
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
spot;1488364 wrote: Particularly, I would note, in India.
Very Hindu, India.
Most of the mainstream religions are homophobic and misogynous. The West is marginally ahead and if we backslide then none of us are free.
Regards
DL
Very Hindu, India.
Most of the mainstream religions are homophobic and misogynous. The West is marginally ahead and if we backslide then none of us are free.
Regards
DL
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Gnostic Christian Bishop;1488393 wrote: Most of the mainstream religions are homophobic and misogynous.
I'm delighted to hear you can name a mainstream religion which is neither homophobic nor misogynous. Which one had you in mind?
The West is marginally ahead and if we backslide then none of us are free.
You're making a lot of mileage out of this "marginally" of yours, I'm not sure why you're flogging it so consistently.
I'm delighted to hear you can name a mainstream religion which is neither homophobic nor misogynous. Which one had you in mind?
The West is marginally ahead and if we backslide then none of us are free.
You're making a lot of mileage out of this "marginally" of yours, I'm not sure why you're flogging it so consistently.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Gnostic Christian Bishop;1488392 wrote: They are, even in the West by some. In a free world, it is everyone's 1st duty to insure that all are free and seen to be free.
We need to do this in memory of those that dies in war for us to be free.
Regards
DL
Indeed. I expect some of them are 'turning in their grave' with the degenerate attitudes we seem to be adopting.
We need to do this in memory of those that dies in war for us to be free.
Regards
DL
Indeed. I expect some of them are 'turning in their grave' with the degenerate attitudes we seem to be adopting.
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
spot;1488395 wrote: I'm delighted to hear you can name a mainstream religion which is neither homophobic nor misogynous. Which one had you in mind?
You're making a lot of mileage out of this "marginally" of yours, I'm not sure why you're flogging it so consistently.
Because we have a ways to go to fully walk our talk.
The exemptions to homophobia and misogyny that come to mind in the mainstream are Buddhism, Quakers and not in the mainstream, my own Gnostic Christianity.
None are perfect in this except Gnostic Christians of my particular brand and even I slip on the odd occasion. :wah:
Regards
DL
You're making a lot of mileage out of this "marginally" of yours, I'm not sure why you're flogging it so consistently.
Because we have a ways to go to fully walk our talk.
The exemptions to homophobia and misogyny that come to mind in the mainstream are Buddhism, Quakers and not in the mainstream, my own Gnostic Christianity.
None are perfect in this except Gnostic Christians of my particular brand and even I slip on the odd occasion. :wah:
Regards
DL
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Smaug;1488397 wrote: Indeed. I expect some of them are 'turning in their grave' with the degenerate attitudes we seem to be adopting.
Not so much adopting, but maintaining.
We have had 60 odd years to perfect what they died for but have been slow to get there because women hearts are too large and male hearts are too small.
We men have not done unto others and definitely not unto women.
It will be nice when we all remember our 1st duty as free men.
Regards
DL
Not so much adopting, but maintaining.
We have had 60 odd years to perfect what they died for but have been slow to get there because women hearts are too large and male hearts are too small.
We men have not done unto others and definitely not unto women.
It will be nice when we all remember our 1st duty as free men.
Regards
DL
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Gnostic Christian Bishop;1488401 wrote: Not so much adopting, but maintaining.
We have had 60 odd years to perfect what they died for but have been slow to get there because women hearts are too large and male hearts are too small.
We men have not done unto others and definitely not unto women.
It will be nice when we all remember our 1st duty as free men.
Regards
DL
I was thinking more of the overt exhibitionism of sex and sexual matters, coupled with society's 'booze culture', but you are right; we have many other shortcomings too!
We have had 60 odd years to perfect what they died for but have been slow to get there because women hearts are too large and male hearts are too small.
We men have not done unto others and definitely not unto women.
It will be nice when we all remember our 1st duty as free men.
Regards
DL
I was thinking more of the overt exhibitionism of sex and sexual matters, coupled with society's 'booze culture', but you are right; we have many other shortcomings too!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Smaug;1488402 wrote: I was thinking more of the overt exhibitionism of sex and sexual matters, coupled with society's 'booze culture', but you are right; we have many other shortcomings too!
Compared to my grandfathers and even my fathers day, the West has become a much better place.
I come from hard rock mining country. When my grandfather moved up, the town he found had a whole section where every other house was either a bootlegger or a whore house. The first thing the men at the mine lumber yard did when he began to wirk there was to have a pool to see whose wife would first seduce him and which co-worker would be first to get grandma.
When my father went to work, the trend was to stand by the mine fence where the foreman used to pick the men required for the shift. He was not picket for some time and asked the foreman why he was being passed over. The foreman said it was because my dad had not offered my mother.
My dad worked the next day and not because he offered my mother.
In my own working life, I have seen men take advantage of women as well but not as flagrantly as in my parents day.
Europe might have been more civilized but not Canada.
Today, few women are bothered by men taking advantage.
We have a ways to go but to lose that progress to a religion that cannot get past its homophobia and misogyny would be to insult all of us alive today.
Regards
DL
Compared to my grandfathers and even my fathers day, the West has become a much better place.
I come from hard rock mining country. When my grandfather moved up, the town he found had a whole section where every other house was either a bootlegger or a whore house. The first thing the men at the mine lumber yard did when he began to wirk there was to have a pool to see whose wife would first seduce him and which co-worker would be first to get grandma.
When my father went to work, the trend was to stand by the mine fence where the foreman used to pick the men required for the shift. He was not picket for some time and asked the foreman why he was being passed over. The foreman said it was because my dad had not offered my mother.
My dad worked the next day and not because he offered my mother.
In my own working life, I have seen men take advantage of women as well but not as flagrantly as in my parents day.
Europe might have been more civilized but not Canada.
Today, few women are bothered by men taking advantage.
We have a ways to go but to lose that progress to a religion that cannot get past its homophobia and misogyny would be to insult all of us alive today.
Regards
DL
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Gnostic Christian Bishop;1488405 wrote: Compared to my grandfathers and even my fathers day, the West has become a much better place.
I come from hard rock mining country. When my grandfather moved up, the town he found had a whole section where every other house was either a bootlegger or a whore house. The first thing the men at the mine lumber yard did when he began to wirk there was to have a pool to see whose wife would first seduce him and which co-worker would be first to get grandma.
When my father went to work, the trend was to stand by the mine fence where the foreman used to pick the men required for the shift. He was not picket for some time and asked the foreman why he was being passed over. The foreman said it was because my dad had not offered my mother.
My dad worked the next day and not because he offered my mother.
In my own working life, I have seen men take advantage of women as well but not as flagrantly as in my parents day.
Europe might have been more civilized but not Canada.
Today, few women are bothered by men taking advantage.
We have a ways to go but to lose that progress to a religion that cannot get past its homophobia and misogyny would be to insult all of us alive today.
Regards
DL
Sounds pretty grim in 'your neck of the woods', GCB. Until the 60's, it was all fairly 'prim and proper' in most of the UK, but now we have girls getting totally 'bladdered'(steaming drunk) on Friday or Saturday night (blokes too!), and having sex pretty much where they feel like it!
I've seen them going at it on the beach; even the risk of getting sand 'in the works' doesn't seem to bother them!
I come from hard rock mining country. When my grandfather moved up, the town he found had a whole section where every other house was either a bootlegger or a whore house. The first thing the men at the mine lumber yard did when he began to wirk there was to have a pool to see whose wife would first seduce him and which co-worker would be first to get grandma.
When my father went to work, the trend was to stand by the mine fence where the foreman used to pick the men required for the shift. He was not picket for some time and asked the foreman why he was being passed over. The foreman said it was because my dad had not offered my mother.
My dad worked the next day and not because he offered my mother.
In my own working life, I have seen men take advantage of women as well but not as flagrantly as in my parents day.
Europe might have been more civilized but not Canada.
Today, few women are bothered by men taking advantage.
We have a ways to go but to lose that progress to a religion that cannot get past its homophobia and misogyny would be to insult all of us alive today.
Regards
DL
Sounds pretty grim in 'your neck of the woods', GCB. Until the 60's, it was all fairly 'prim and proper' in most of the UK, but now we have girls getting totally 'bladdered'(steaming drunk) on Friday or Saturday night (blokes too!), and having sex pretty much where they feel like it!
I've seen them going at it on the beach; even the risk of getting sand 'in the works' doesn't seem to bother them!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Gnostic Christian Bishop;1488405 wrote: Compared to my grandfathers and even my fathers day, the West has become a much better place.
I come from hard rock mining country. When my grandfather moved up, the town he found had a whole section where every other house was either a bootlegger or a whore house. The first thing the men at the mine lumber yard did when he began to wirk there was to have a pool to see whose wife would first seduce him and which co-worker would be first to get grandma.
When my father went to work, the trend was to stand by the mine fence where the foreman used to pick the men required for the shift. He was not picket for some time and asked the foreman why he was being passed over. The foreman said it was because my dad had not offered my mother.
My dad worked the next day and not because he offered my mother.
In my own working life, I have seen men take advantage of women as well but not as flagrantly as in my parents day.
Europe might have been more civilized but not Canada.
Today, few women are bothered by men taking advantage.
We have a ways to go but to lose that progress to a religion that cannot get past its homophobia and misogyny would be to insult all of us alive today.
Regards
DL
It is always a mistake to label an entire religious organization based upon the behavior of a few adherents. Look at what the Westboro folks in Topeka have done for Christians, and what if we all formed our opinion of all Gnostics based upon our interactions with the ones we have met here on FG?
I come from hard rock mining country. When my grandfather moved up, the town he found had a whole section where every other house was either a bootlegger or a whore house. The first thing the men at the mine lumber yard did when he began to wirk there was to have a pool to see whose wife would first seduce him and which co-worker would be first to get grandma.
When my father went to work, the trend was to stand by the mine fence where the foreman used to pick the men required for the shift. He was not picket for some time and asked the foreman why he was being passed over. The foreman said it was because my dad had not offered my mother.
My dad worked the next day and not because he offered my mother.
In my own working life, I have seen men take advantage of women as well but not as flagrantly as in my parents day.
Europe might have been more civilized but not Canada.
Today, few women are bothered by men taking advantage.
We have a ways to go but to lose that progress to a religion that cannot get past its homophobia and misogyny would be to insult all of us alive today.
Regards
DL
It is always a mistake to label an entire religious organization based upon the behavior of a few adherents. Look at what the Westboro folks in Topeka have done for Christians, and what if we all formed our opinion of all Gnostics based upon our interactions with the ones we have met here on FG?
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
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Gnostic Christian Bishop
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Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Smaug;1488406 wrote: Sounds pretty grim in 'your neck of the woods', GCB. Until the 60's, it was all fairly 'prim and proper' in most of the UK, but now we have girls getting totally 'bladdered'(steaming drunk) on Friday or Saturday night (blokes too!), and having sex pretty much where they feel like it!
I've seen them going at it on the beach, even the risk of getting sand 'in the works' doesn't seem to bother them!
You forget your own history of every man of means having a mistress or two but if your grandfather and father did not talk of such things you would never know.
As to your young generation drinking so much, I agree that it is really stupid when everyone knows that smoking pot is a lot healthier.
Perhaps your UK parents should talk to them more about such things than your parents did to you of their own past.
Regards
DL
I've seen them going at it on the beach, even the risk of getting sand 'in the works' doesn't seem to bother them!
You forget your own history of every man of means having a mistress or two but if your grandfather and father did not talk of such things you would never know.
As to your young generation drinking so much, I agree that it is really stupid when everyone knows that smoking pot is a lot healthier.
Perhaps your UK parents should talk to them more about such things than your parents did to you of their own past.
Regards
DL