New Canadian Administration And God - Not So Much

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:20 am

Canada's newly elected PM Justin Trudeau's administration is truly diverse and free.

Half of the New Canadian Cabinet Members Chose to Skip “So Help Me God” in Their Oaths of Office

In their oaths of office, they each said: “I, (name), do solemnly and sincerely promise and swear/declare that I will truly and faithfully, and to the best of my skill and knowledge, execute the powers and trusts reposed in me as (cabinet title).

Individuals had the choice of affirming their oaths, which allowed them to replace the word “swear with the word “declare and to omit the expression “So help me God.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:10 am

Interesting link. Religion in america sems to be a really toxic subject.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:22 am

gmc;1489235 wrote: Interesting link. Religion in america sems to be a really toxic subject.

You got that from the link you provided?

What, exactly, do you mean by that statement, and how did you arrive at that conclusion from that link?

BTW, that option has been available in most civil positions in the US for years. I believe in most cases the option is to Affirm, rather than declare, but the option has been there for a very long time.

The Constitution has never required such phrases.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:24 am

gmc;1489235 wrote: Interesting link. Religion in america seems to be a really toxic subject.Actually, it's any push back of religion that's the toxic subject.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 12:16 pm

LarsMac;1489240 wrote: You got that from the link you provided?

What, exactly, do you mean by that statement, and how did you arrive at that conclusion from that link?

BTW, that option has been available in most civil positions in the US for years. I believe in most cases the option is to Affirm, rather than declare, but the option has been there for a very long time.

The Constitution has never required such phrases.

You got that from the link you provided?

No I just commented that I found the link interesting it is a website I will be exploring.

That religion is a toxic subject is an impression I have gained from reading many news articles in american newspapers and watching american news programmes - for instance we don't have religious nutter blowing up abortion clinics. Over here attempts by the religious to spread their poison are increasingly meeting hostility christian parties at the last election in the main lost their deposits and I live in the hope seperate religious schools and their baleful influence will eventually be banned in this country (scotland that is ) though I am not holding my breath.

In the UK the religion of the politicians is not very often an issue in the main people don't really care.

I've also come across this

The Atheist Experience TV Show

They talk about coming out as an atheist I have the impression the pressure to keep your mouth shut and conform is incredible.

The discussions don't actually tell me anything I didn't already know but the attitude and hostility they get from some of the callers I find breathtaking as is the ignorance. In considering these issues learning how to articulate them is useful is sorting out one's own position so i find the above and ahso's link interesting. I read the bible end to end as a teenager moved to the koran and started reading the sanskrit texts (in translation of course) by which point I had decided I could not believe any of this crap, the more I learn the more I find it hard to understand why anyone does.

Then of course there are characters like this

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 27221.html

You couldn't make it up could you.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 2:29 pm

gmc, we are nuts here over religion. Starbucks Xmas coffee cup is red, without any mention of the holiday. Conservative Christians are bellowing Starbucks is part of the "War on Xmas" that they made up. Bunch of whiners.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:21 pm

AnneBoleyn;1489260 wrote: gmc, we are nuts here over religion. Starbucks Xmas coffee cup is red, without any mention of the holiday. Conservative Christians are bellowing Starbucks is part of the "War on Xmas" that they made up. Bunch of whiners.

Link please.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:36 pm

tude dog;1489264 wrote: Link please.Can't spell? Take your pick:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=c ... ontroversy

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:28 pm

Ahso!;1489267 wrote: Can't spell? Take your pick:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=c ... ontroversy

NO

I asked for a link from Ann. I would not presume to know exactly what she is referring to. Ann is more than capable of speaking for herself.

Your interruption is more than useless.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:38 am

AnneBoleyn;1489260 wrote: gmc, we are nuts here over religion. Starbucks Xmas coffee cup is red, without any mention of the holiday. Conservative Christians are bellowing Starbucks is part of the "War on Xmas" that they made up. Bunch of whiners.

Christmas is a pagan festival hijacked by the christian church - as is easter come to that - for the simple rason that they could not stop people celebrating the change in the seasons, indeed at one time I'm sure christmas was banned by the church for just that reason I know it was in this country by the puritans - mankind was after put on earth to suffer and die before going to heaven laugh and the devil gets in I'm sure you know the type although you do seem (in the US I mean) to go in more for the happy clappies. What war on christmas are they on about?

yep it was in america as well.

The Surprising Truth: Christians Once Banned Christmas

I already boycott starbucks as they are one of the companies that don't pay a fair amount of taxes in the UK

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:13 am

gmc;1489272 wrote: What war on christmas are they on about?It's basically an accusation made by conservatives when tradition is not strictly followed. In this case Starbucks put out a coffee cup in the traditional christmas red but without any religious symbols on it, and instead, they chose a more neutral symbol.

"War" has unfortunately become a term used often in our vocabulary, since it's a state we like to promote. That's a very sad fact. Just about everything involves descriptor such as "war" "aggression" "resistance" "battle" "battleground" "assault" "enemy" "combatant" and others that are telling of the collective American psyche. You hear it at business meetings, political events, local school board meetings, casual conversations - it's everywhere - and it's very disheartening. This is why we see our police abusing their authority, white gun rights advocates marching around black neighborhoods openly displaying their firearms.

We're all at war with the world and each other.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:24 am

Christmas Parade or Holiday Parade?

Officially it is the Holiday Parade. Everybody I know calls it the Christmas Parade. Makes sense considering Santa Claus seems to always make it there.

Granada Hills Chamber of Commerce can call it what they want, it's their parade and I am not one to rain on it. It always struck me as odd, though. Seems the Los Angeles Times can't keep it straight.

Granada Hills Christmas Parade

Granada Hills' 12th annual holiday parade, the largest of its kind in the San Fernando Valley, will begin at 1:30 p.m. today at the intersection of Chatsworth Street and Petit Avenue.

The parade, sponsored by the Granada Hills Chamber of Commerce, will proceed west along Chatsworth to Lindley Avenue. Afterward, Santa Claus will light a 65-foot Christmas tree at Chatsworth Street and Zelzah Avenue.

LA Times

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:29 am

tude dog;1489275 wrote: christmas parade or holiday parade?

Officially it is the holiday parade. Everybody i know calls it the christmas parade. Makes sense considering santa claus seems to always make it there.

Granada hills chamber of commerce can call it what they want, it's their parade and i am not one to rain on it. It always struck me as odd, though. Seems the los angeles times can't keep it straight.

la times

omfg! You do realize that christmas is a holiday? That fact makes the terms interchangeable.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:05 am

Ahso!;1489276 wrote: omfg! You do realize that christmas is a holiday? That fact makes the terms interchangeable.

No, they are not.

This year's Holiday Parade The date is Sunday December 6.

Celebrate Hanukkah 2015

On Sunday evening (Dec. 6)

Never known it to be referred to as a Chanukah Parade and I doubt that this year will be any different.

Officially it is the Holiday Parade through in the hearts and minds of the local residents it will always be the Christmas Parade.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:11 am

tude dog;1489277 wrote: No, they are not.

This year's Holiday Parade The date is Sunday December 6.

Celebrate Hanukkah 2015

On Sunday evening (Dec. 6)

Never known it to be referred to as a Chanukah Parade and I doubt that this year will be any different.

Officially it is the Holiday Parade through in the hearts and minds of the local residents it will always be the Christmas Parade.I'm having difficulty parsing most of this.

But you think you know what's in the hearts and minds of each and every resident?

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:15 am

Ahso!;1489278 wrote: I'm having difficulty parsing most of this.

But you think you know what's in the hearts and minds of each and every resident?

Not really, but it sure sounded good. I can say I've never ever heard it referred to anything other than Christmas Parade.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:14 pm

I have chosen to be an ecumenist in the broadest sense of the term. I accept the validity of all of the great faiths. I do not need to denigrate anyone because of their faith. Yes much harm has been done in the name of God. However a lot of the criticisms of faith today display a complete lack of knowledge in the directions of some of these faiths. Christianity is a faith that has in many places already changed. Diana Butler-Bass has published a book entitles "Christianity after Religion". There will of course always be the extremists. As far as the celebration of the various faith events such as Christmas Parades or Ramadan. Each are free in Canada to do so. I can understand why some want to curtail the phrases in public places because Canada is a multicultural nation. I suggest in schools that several faith traditions should be considered because their faiths are based on culture in part.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:03 pm

tude dog;1489264 wrote: Link please.

If you still require a link then you are not paying attention. Google it. As for Ahso providing one while I was offline, to me there is nothing wrong with that as this is a Public Forum.

Thank you.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:18 pm

tude dog;1489279 wrote: Not really, but it sure sounded good. I can say I've never ever heard it referred to anything other than Christmas Parade.

Xmas is a National Holiday. We were founded by Xians, most of our citizens are, or come from Xians, whether or not they go to a church. I certainly believe that most of your fellow residents refer to this as the Xmas Parade, and yes, while making it seem like a general holiday parade is not really accurate.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:56 pm

I've only just got home from work so wasn't about at the beginning of this thread. Since then the subject seems to have diversified somewhat, but I was curious at how the initial post was about how Canada had included the new option, then everyone seemed to be saying that it wasn't new, but that America had been doing it for years. Surely the original statement was that it was something new to Canada, and nothing to do with America.

It's been the same way in the UK for ages as well. When I first had to swear out a County Court Judgement I was asked if I had any objections to swearing on the Bible. I said that I had no objections, but that it wouldn't have any meaning because of my contempt for the Bible, so I was allowed to swear a Civil Declaration. Last year I had to swear another one out & the choice of swearing on the Bible wasn't even available any more.

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:28 pm

FourPart;1489304 wrote: I've only just got home from work so wasn't about at the beginning of this thread. Since then the subject seems to have diversified somewhat, but I was curious at how the initial post was about how Canada had included the new option, then everyone seemed to be saying that it wasn't new, but that America had been doing it for years. Surely the original statement was that it was something new to Canada, and nothing to do with America.

It's been the same way in the UK for ages as well. When I first had to swear out a County Court Judgement I was asked if I had any objections to swearing on the Bible. I said that I had no objections, but that it wouldn't have any meaning because of my contempt for the Bible, so I was allowed to swear a Civil Declaration. Last year I had to swear another one out & the choice of swearing on the Bible wasn't even available any more.

I doubt that it was a "New option". I am pretty sure that Canada has long ago grown away from that requirement.

I think that it is only really a big deal as a note on the passing the prior administration who probably DID swear on the bible, and say "so help me God."

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:27 pm

AnneBoleyn;1489260 wrote: gmc, we are nuts here over religion. Starbucks Xmas coffee cup is red, without any mention of the holiday. Conservative Christians are bellowing Starbucks is part of the "War on Xmas" that they made up. Bunch of whiners.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:44 am

You'd think pagans would be upset about the way the festival at the turn of the year (saturnalia to the romans) has been hijacked by the christian church. Never mind at least the days of the week are named after pagan gods

Encyclopedia Mythica: Origin of the names of the days

- don't tell the fundamentalists or who knows what they might start to campaign for.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:12 pm

I don't like Starbucks coffee. Never been in a store, but did buy in grocery. I prefer Columbian, or Dunkin Donuts.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Nov 13, 2015 1:24 am

Columbian's too sweet for my taste as are the african coffees prefer old brown java when I can get it otherwise I go for the full strength stuff. We don't have dunkin donuts (at least not where I live) but there's always greggs when out and about.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:55 pm

Some of the world's well known and respected theologians have been asking for a complete reformation in the Christian church. Their desire is to bring it into the 21st century. A lot of what we see in here is the same old criticisms of the past. The Christian faith is changing. God as an experiential reality not a being sitting up there on his throne, Jesus not a God but a prophet and wanting the best for all of mankind, Satan is a creation of the Mesopotamians and borrowed by many others, . We are trying to return to the original Christian faith and bring it up to date. I was raised in a very fundamentalist church and I found it down right evil. We need to return to being "The people of the way".

People need to learn how to read and interpret these ancient documents such as the Bible, the Quor'an, The sacred texts of all the faiths. They contain much wisdom. The Christian church is at fault for not teaching these skills.

Will the church survive? Only time will tell.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:40 pm

Ted;1489688 wrote: Some of the world's well known and respected theologians have been asking for a complete reformation in the Christian church. Their desire is to bring it into the 21st century. A lot of what we see in here is the same old criticisms of the past. The Christian faith is changing. God as an experiential reality not a being sitting up there on his throne, Jesus not a God but a prophet and wanting the best for all of mankind, Satan is a creation of the Mesopotamians and borrowed by many others, . We are trying to return to the original Christian faith and bring it up to date. I was raised in a very fundamentalist church and I found it down right evil. We need to return to being "The people of the way".

People need to learn how to read and interpret these ancient documents such as the Bible, the Quor'an, The sacred texts of all the faiths. They contain much wisdom. The Christian church is at fault for not teaching these skills.

Will the church survive? Only time will tell.

Sadly, I suspect any significant change would be met with serious opposition. Look how much resistance the Pope encounters with discussions of fairly minor "adjustments"

I think it would prove easier to come up with an entirely new "religion" to which people could convert, than to change the way the Church, or rather The Churches, consider the "sacred texts"

And there are too many people the like of Osteen, and the like getting rich off of the old ways, to want to embrace change. If they could see a real profit in it, they might come around.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:09 pm

I like Joel Osteen. Joyce Meyer, too. Strange, I know. I believe they believe.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:48 pm

Joel Osteen

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:04 pm

tude dog;1489702 wrote: Joel Osteen

How could that have been Christian Bale on sax? He's only 41. Sure looks like him though. What does Frank Zappa have to do with..............? Who cares, great video, thanks TD.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:06 pm

Cosmik

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:08 pm

AnneBoleyn;1489704 wrote: How could that have been Christian Bale on sax? He's only 41. Sure looks like him though. What does Frank Zappa have to do with..............? Who cares, great video, thanks TD.

Does look like Bale. But I think that was recorded Long before Bale was even an idea in his daddy's head.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:14 pm

I looked it up. Both Bale & Cosmik were "released" in 1974! Maybe that sax player died & Christian was immediately his reincarnation. Makes sense, right? :-3

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:54 pm

Ummm,

OK, sure.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:02 pm