Quite simple. How will you be voting?
Remain In E.U.
Leave E.U.
Undecided
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
As far as I'm concerned, it's a 'no brainer'. If people in this country want to get control of their borders back, and to also make our own laws, and be in control of our own destiny instead of being ruled by an unelected bunch of bigots who appear to be rather corrupt, then the people should vote OUT ! The EU accounts have never been audited as far as I am aware, and is that any way to reassure people in the EU countries that those 'in charge' are being totally honest? The EU Federation just hasn't worked. It has been a vehicle for a few people to get rather rich ! I'm so glad we didn't actually join the Euro, and if I remember rightly, Germany was one of the countries who advised us against it - I think they could see how things were basically collapsing with regard to the Euro.
We must consider what some of the major companies say that we should remain in the EU, but maybe you notice that not all the major companies want to stay in ! Obama is concerned that if we leave the EU they will not have such an easy relationship with Europe. I don't think it will have much affect on the US/EU relationship at all. We are told that if we leave EU then we will get poorer and poorer, on the contrary, I believe it will be the other way round.
I, personally, am 'fed up' with being ordered around by those few unelected bigots who constantly bring in dozens of new laws without any consultation with us. We need to get our country back !
We must consider what some of the major companies say that we should remain in the EU, but maybe you notice that not all the major companies want to stay in ! Obama is concerned that if we leave the EU they will not have such an easy relationship with Europe. I don't think it will have much affect on the US/EU relationship at all. We are told that if we leave EU then we will get poorer and poorer, on the contrary, I believe it will be the other way round.
I, personally, am 'fed up' with being ordered around by those few unelected bigots who constantly bring in dozens of new laws without any consultation with us. We need to get our country back !
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
I rather liked this post I saw on FaceBook today:
Dear America, and in particular Hilary Clinton and Barrack Obama, I have a plan.
In order for the USA to improve trade I think you should immediately remove border control with Mexico and Canada. You would also allow free transit and employment of nationals in these countries allied with unrestricted trade.
To further help this alliance you will pay 6 billion US Dollars to each annually and expect no return.
Obviously before you pass any US laws they will have to comply with the multi-national governing committee.
Your farmers will be given production limits and it is expected most of Florida's citrus production will be allocated to Mexico.
ObamaCare will now also cover any visiting persons from the Alliance, at cost to USA.
We hope you find this acceptable, as the Europe strongly recommends this and will cut you off from any and all trade if you don't comply.
America, is this a bitter pill? Well keep your nose out of others business, let democratic process prevail without quite as much corruption and money throwing as we see with you.
Dear America, and in particular Hilary Clinton and Barrack Obama, I have a plan.
In order for the USA to improve trade I think you should immediately remove border control with Mexico and Canada. You would also allow free transit and employment of nationals in these countries allied with unrestricted trade.
To further help this alliance you will pay 6 billion US Dollars to each annually and expect no return.
Obviously before you pass any US laws they will have to comply with the multi-national governing committee.
Your farmers will be given production limits and it is expected most of Florida's citrus production will be allocated to Mexico.
ObamaCare will now also cover any visiting persons from the Alliance, at cost to USA.
We hope you find this acceptable, as the Europe strongly recommends this and will cut you off from any and all trade if you don't comply.
America, is this a bitter pill? Well keep your nose out of others business, let democratic process prevail without quite as much corruption and money throwing as we see with you.
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
Aren't you voting then FourPart ?
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
FourPart;1495010 wrote: I rather liked this post I saw on FaceBook today:
Hear, Hear!
Hear, Hear!
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
I am torn.
My head tells me we are better off inside, and that most of the paranoia is just that.....paranoia.
My head tells me we are better off inside, and that most of the paranoia is just that.....paranoia.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
As far as I'm concerned, it's a 'no brainer'. If people in this country want to get control of their borders back, and to also make our own laws, and be in control of our own destiny instead of being ruled by an unelected bunch of bigots who appear to be rather corrupt,
I, personally, am 'fed up' with being ordered around by those few unelected bigots who constantly bring in dozens of new laws without any consultation with us. We need to get our country back !
Guess why I voted yes in the scottish referendum.
I think if we lkeave our economy will go down the toilet. Miost of the big comopnaies are foreign owned and thanks to UK's east going laws on redundancies it's cheaper to shut british factories than european ones. (we opted out the social contract remember, trying asking someone who has taken the nopportunity tio opt out of the european working time directive what they think of it, the rationale wass it would make us more competitive in reality it;s been a means to screw workers wags to tyhe floor) Financial services will end up in zurich or somewhere and there will be nothing we can do to stop the big investment fiorms move out. Might still be a few jobs in Uk dependancies money laundering camerons's cronies ill gotten gains.
If you look at the employment and economic policies of the likes of UKip they are basically fascist but without the nice uniforms. Most of the heakth and safety regulation that has made such a big difference to workp;lavces has come from europe.
The immigration that people REALLY REALLY object to and that has done the most harm is that from our former colonies wit vastly different culture
I, personally, am 'fed up' with being ordered around by those few unelected bigots who constantly bring in dozens of new laws without any consultation with us. We need to get our country back !
Guess why I voted yes in the scottish referendum.
I think if we lkeave our economy will go down the toilet. Miost of the big comopnaies are foreign owned and thanks to UK's east going laws on redundancies it's cheaper to shut british factories than european ones. (we opted out the social contract remember, trying asking someone who has taken the nopportunity tio opt out of the european working time directive what they think of it, the rationale wass it would make us more competitive in reality it;s been a means to screw workers wags to tyhe floor) Financial services will end up in zurich or somewhere and there will be nothing we can do to stop the big investment fiorms move out. Might still be a few jobs in Uk dependancies money laundering camerons's cronies ill gotten gains.
If you look at the employment and economic policies of the likes of UKip they are basically fascist but without the nice uniforms. Most of the heakth and safety regulation that has made such a big difference to workp;lavces has come from europe.
The immigration that people REALLY REALLY object to and that has done the most harm is that from our former colonies wit vastly different culture
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
The U.K. economy has managed to keep its head above water not as a result of be part of Europe, but because of its refusal to become part of the Eurozone & insisting on keeping the Pound. The Euro went exactly as predicted. The theory of an internationally acceptable currency may be all well & good - in theory. In practice the value of a currency is dependent on the way each individual country handles its economy and the only way to even come close to a uniform economy is to become a united state being controlled by a single central Government, with no independent say from any of the member states - which, co-incidentally, is exactly the way that Europe has been heading ever since the early days of the Common Market. More & more, people are becoming fed up with the way that the U.K. is steadily losing its sovereignty to Brussels. The Pro Europe Lobby claim that the best way to reform the E.U. is from the inside. Well, we've had getting on towards half a century to make these reforms. What is there to make anyone think that these changes will magically happen if we decide to stay within the Union? The so called negotiations that Cameron has made are not only token gestures, but not even binding, as they would still be liable to ratification by the other member states, who have always overruled the U.K. on such things in the past.
The main question seems to be what we have to offer the E.U., rather than what the E.U. has to offer the U.K. because, thus far, it seems like a one-way deal. We give them something like £10, and they generously reward us with £2 pocket money. How could our economy possibly survive without that £2. We purchase far more from Europe than we sell to them. Would leaving Europe really mean that they won't want to sell things to us any more? The only difference, of course, is that we would be free to negotiate our own prices, rather than be told the prices we have to pay, and that we have to purchase so many goods, whether we want them or not.
I was, and still am in favour of the concept of the Common Market in the way it was originally intended - as a Common Trade Treaty. What I object to is the centralised Government it has become, so I will definitely be voting OUT.
The main question seems to be what we have to offer the E.U., rather than what the E.U. has to offer the U.K. because, thus far, it seems like a one-way deal. We give them something like £10, and they generously reward us with £2 pocket money. How could our economy possibly survive without that £2. We purchase far more from Europe than we sell to them. Would leaving Europe really mean that they won't want to sell things to us any more? The only difference, of course, is that we would be free to negotiate our own prices, rather than be told the prices we have to pay, and that we have to purchase so many goods, whether we want them or not.
I was, and still am in favour of the concept of the Common Market in the way it was originally intended - as a Common Trade Treaty. What I object to is the centralised Government it has become, so I will definitely be voting OUT.
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
Well, at this point, what does the UK, alone, have to offer the world economy as a free-standing nation?
Perhaps economically tied to the commonwealth of your former colonies, you could get along outside of the EU.
I think that the EU was an idea whose time had come, but there are some significant changes that will need to take place before it truly becomes a viable entity. How the member nations can do what needs to be done, without losing their national identities in the process is going to be a real challenge, but unless they work it out, UK will not be the only nation to decide to to leave the union.
On the global scale, 50 years is not a long time in which to expect things to settle down. this process will take a century or two.
Perhaps economically tied to the commonwealth of your former colonies, you could get along outside of the EU.
I think that the EU was an idea whose time had come, but there are some significant changes that will need to take place before it truly becomes a viable entity. How the member nations can do what needs to be done, without losing their national identities in the process is going to be a real challenge, but unless they work it out, UK will not be the only nation to decide to to leave the union.
On the global scale, 50 years is not a long time in which to expect things to settle down. this process will take a century or two.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
Can the Yankees vote? 
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
FourPart, you still haven't voted !!!!
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
FourPart;1495010 wrote: I rather liked this post I saw on FaceBook today:
Dear America, and in particular Hilary Clinton and Barrack Obama, I have a plan.
In order for the USA to improve trade I think you should immediately remove border control with Mexico and Canada. You would also allow free transit and employment of nationals in these countries allied with unrestricted trade.
To further help this alliance you will pay 6 billion US Dollars to each annually and expect no return.
Obviously before you pass any US laws they will have to comply with the multi-national governing committee.
Your farmers will be given production limits and it is expected most of Florida's citrus production will be allocated to Mexico.
ObamaCare will now also cover any visiting persons from the Alliance, at cost to USA.
We hope you find this acceptable, as the Europe strongly recommends this and will cut you off from any and all trade if you don't comply.
America, is this a bitter pill? Well keep your nose out of others business, let democratic process prevail without quite as much corruption and money throwing as we see with you.
I find all of that a bit ironic, given all of the interference and political influence exerted by the Brits in the 19th and early 20th Century here in America.
It was not really until the latter half of the 20th that we (US of A) really started flexing our own muscles on the world front. By then the UK was just a tired old gent trying to remember the good ol' days, and entertaining himself by telling us how we are doing it all wrong.
Dear America, and in particular Hilary Clinton and Barrack Obama, I have a plan.
In order for the USA to improve trade I think you should immediately remove border control with Mexico and Canada. You would also allow free transit and employment of nationals in these countries allied with unrestricted trade.
To further help this alliance you will pay 6 billion US Dollars to each annually and expect no return.
Obviously before you pass any US laws they will have to comply with the multi-national governing committee.
Your farmers will be given production limits and it is expected most of Florida's citrus production will be allocated to Mexico.
ObamaCare will now also cover any visiting persons from the Alliance, at cost to USA.
We hope you find this acceptable, as the Europe strongly recommends this and will cut you off from any and all trade if you don't comply.
America, is this a bitter pill? Well keep your nose out of others business, let democratic process prevail without quite as much corruption and money throwing as we see with you.
I find all of that a bit ironic, given all of the interference and political influence exerted by the Brits in the 19th and early 20th Century here in America.
It was not really until the latter half of the 20th that we (US of A) really started flexing our own muscles on the world front. By then the UK was just a tired old gent trying to remember the good ol' days, and entertaining himself by telling us how we are doing it all wrong.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
@Lars, are you missing the irony ?
It was Obama that told us to stay as we are, part of the EU, with the same type of rules described in that passage. We have affectively open borders and no passport control for our fellow EU members.
It was Obama that told us to stay as we are, part of the EU, with the same type of rules described in that passage. We have affectively open borders and no passport control for our fellow EU members.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
Bruv;1495212 wrote: @Lars, are you missing the irony ?
It was Obama that told us to stay as we are, part of the EU, with the same type of rules described in that passage. We have affectively open borders and no passport control for our fellow EU members.
Well, he did not actually tell you to stay put. He just advised y'all on how it would screw up the current US and UK economic relationship.
It was Obama that told us to stay as we are, part of the EU, with the same type of rules described in that passage. We have affectively open borders and no passport control for our fellow EU members.
Well, he did not actually tell you to stay put. He just advised y'all on how it would screw up the current US and UK economic relationship.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
LarsMac;1495215 wrote: Well, he did not actually tell you to stay put. He just advised y'all on how it would screw up the current US and UK economic relationship.
Like my father used to 'Advise' me to get home by a certain time.........or else ?
Like my father used to 'Advise' me to get home by a certain time.........or else ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
I agree Bruv. This referendum is purely Brit. business and no other nation's business.
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
Well, other than, we outsiders like to know who we're gonna be dealing with.
Besides, y'all were in this at the beginning and it seemed like a good idea at the time. Now, the going gets a bit tough, and y'all want to bail out. I don't much care one way, or the other how you decide. Long as I can get the occasional pack of Jaffa Cakes now and again, whether they come from a member of the EU, or from a rogue Britain, matters not one wit.
Maybe you can come join a commonwealth of all your old colonies, and we can see something of that old Orwellian dream come to pass.
Besides, y'all were in this at the beginning and it seemed like a good idea at the time. Now, the going gets a bit tough, and y'all want to bail out. I don't much care one way, or the other how you decide. Long as I can get the occasional pack of Jaffa Cakes now and again, whether they come from a member of the EU, or from a rogue Britain, matters not one wit.
Maybe you can come join a commonwealth of all your old colonies, and we can see something of that old Orwellian dream come to pass.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
G#Gill;1495179 wrote: FourPart, you still haven't voted !!!!
Yes I have - I was the first one to vote.
Yes I have - I was the first one to vote.
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
LarsMac;1495289 wrote: Well, other than, we outsiders like to know who we're gonna be dealing with.
Besides, y'all were in this at the beginning and it seemed like a good idea at the time. Now, the going gets a bit tough, and y'all want to bail out. I don't much care one way, or the other how you decide. Long as I can get the occasional pack of Jaffa Cakes now and again, whether they come from a member of the EU, or from a rogue Britain, matters not one wit.
Maybe you can come join a commonwealth of all your old colonies, and we can see something of that old Orwellian dream come to pass.
Actually in 1984 the UK was part of oceania dominated the by the americas and known as airstrip one. Our old colonies want nothing to do with us except take money in the form of aid.
Besides, y'all were in this at the beginning and it seemed like a good idea at the time. Now, the going gets a bit tough, and y'all want to bail out. I don't much care one way, or the other how you decide. Long as I can get the occasional pack of Jaffa Cakes now and again, whether they come from a member of the EU, or from a rogue Britain, matters not one wit.
Maybe you can come join a commonwealth of all your old colonies, and we can see something of that old Orwellian dream come to pass.
Actually in 1984 the UK was part of oceania dominated the by the americas and known as airstrip one. Our old colonies want nothing to do with us except take money in the form of aid.
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
FourPart;1495331 wrote: Yes I have - I was the first one to vote.
Many apologies Mr. FourPart.
Many apologies Mr. FourPart.
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
G#Gill;1495008 wrote: We must consider what some of the major companies say that we should remain in the EU, but maybe you notice that not all the major companies want to stay in !
With globalization, the whole point of the Union was to be more competitive. I, too, and worried what might happen economically to Great Britain. Lord knows you guys have taken enough whacks to the wallet these last two decades.
Obama is concerned that if we leave the EU they will not have such an easy relationship with Europe. I don't think it will have much affect on the US/EU relationship at all.
Like most Americans, we'll support anything that England does. Unequivocally. You're our parent country after all. But we do feel a little safer when you are a big, multinational country. It makes us uneasy to think of Europe shattered into little tiny pieces again. It's probably just left over fear from WWI and WWII, though.
With globalization, the whole point of the Union was to be more competitive. I, too, and worried what might happen economically to Great Britain. Lord knows you guys have taken enough whacks to the wallet these last two decades.
Obama is concerned that if we leave the EU they will not have such an easy relationship with Europe. I don't think it will have much affect on the US/EU relationship at all.
Like most Americans, we'll support anything that England does. Unequivocally. You're our parent country after all. But we do feel a little safer when you are a big, multinational country. It makes us uneasy to think of Europe shattered into little tiny pieces again. It's probably just left over fear from WWI and WWII, though.
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
Like most Americans, we'll support anything that England does. Unequivocally. You're our parent country after all. But we do feel a little safer when you are a big, multinational country. It makes us uneasy to think of Europe shattered into little tiny pieces again. It's probably just left over fear from WWI and WWII, though.
Who will save you from donald trump?:sneaky:
Who will save you from donald trump?:sneaky:
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
G#Gill;1495281 wrote: I agree Bruv. This referendum is purely Brit. business and no other nation's business.
Sorry, I disagree - the decision we take will have a knock on effect to the rest of the world's economy. Whilst voting in the referendum is purely for Brits, discussion about the referendum is open to all.
Sorry, I disagree - the decision we take will have a knock on effect to the rest of the world's economy. Whilst voting in the referendum is purely for Brits, discussion about the referendum is open to all.
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
The thing is that all the campaigning, from both sides seems to be based on conjecture about the Bogeyman, with no evidence on way or the other. Threats about the doom & gloom that will result, with nothing to base the threats on. There don't seem to be any arguments being put forward about how we could benefit by remaining in / leaving - and more to the point, with reasons to substantiate it.
I am in favour of leaving. However, I am not naive enough to believe that we quit & then ZAP-POW, suddenly everything becomes hunky-dory overnight. There will be a transitionary period of uncertainty, which would be likely to last 5 - 10 years. New deals will have to be made - but at least we will be free to make those deals on our own terms without having them made for us. When the Common Market began most of our trading was done with Europe, primarily because of the physical distance. Business trading was made by telephone or, at best, by Telex - no internet. Air freight was very limited. Container ships were much smaller. Over the years we have since established Worldwide Trade connections, which have nothing to do with the EU. The pro-EU lobby tend to bandy about the issue of Human Rights. Well, the European Court of Human Rights is separate from the EU - it's not the same thing. We would still remain a signatory to that regardless. Employment Rights? Most of those were in place before the EU, and would probably have taken place in due course without it anyway. Border Control? Border Control doesn't mean NO Immigration. It simply means that we have some control over it, rather than being told that anyone & everyone has the RIGHT to walk into our country to live, work, get free education, health services, benefits (including child benefits which they can send back to their families who have never set foot in the country), etc. The EU have even admitted that wages would increase if we were to leave, stating that whenever there is a shortage of labour, wages increase. Supply & Demand. With an unlimited supply of immigrants from the Eastern Bloc, where a typical wage is something like 50p / hour, and workers who consider working less than minimum wage to be living in the land of milk & honey, employers are exactly going to have any incentive to pay reasonable wages, so long as they can get someone to do it for minimal rate. Furthermore, when only earning minimal rate, the amount of taxes paid will be minimal, if they even reach the level at which they begin to pay tax in the first place. Why should we have to allow any unskilled person into the country simply because they come from Europe, when a highly skilled doctor from India, for example, has to go through a great deal of red tape in order to get a visa?
I am in favour of leaving. However, I am not naive enough to believe that we quit & then ZAP-POW, suddenly everything becomes hunky-dory overnight. There will be a transitionary period of uncertainty, which would be likely to last 5 - 10 years. New deals will have to be made - but at least we will be free to make those deals on our own terms without having them made for us. When the Common Market began most of our trading was done with Europe, primarily because of the physical distance. Business trading was made by telephone or, at best, by Telex - no internet. Air freight was very limited. Container ships were much smaller. Over the years we have since established Worldwide Trade connections, which have nothing to do with the EU. The pro-EU lobby tend to bandy about the issue of Human Rights. Well, the European Court of Human Rights is separate from the EU - it's not the same thing. We would still remain a signatory to that regardless. Employment Rights? Most of those were in place before the EU, and would probably have taken place in due course without it anyway. Border Control? Border Control doesn't mean NO Immigration. It simply means that we have some control over it, rather than being told that anyone & everyone has the RIGHT to walk into our country to live, work, get free education, health services, benefits (including child benefits which they can send back to their families who have never set foot in the country), etc. The EU have even admitted that wages would increase if we were to leave, stating that whenever there is a shortage of labour, wages increase. Supply & Demand. With an unlimited supply of immigrants from the Eastern Bloc, where a typical wage is something like 50p / hour, and workers who consider working less than minimum wage to be living in the land of milk & honey, employers are exactly going to have any incentive to pay reasonable wages, so long as they can get someone to do it for minimal rate. Furthermore, when only earning minimal rate, the amount of taxes paid will be minimal, if they even reach the level at which they begin to pay tax in the first place. Why should we have to allow any unskilled person into the country simply because they come from Europe, when a highly skilled doctor from India, for example, has to go through a great deal of red tape in order to get a visa?
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
It seems to me that we humans have evolved from creatures that used to try something, and if it didn't work, we tried to figure out how to fix it, and make it work.
We now seem ready to toss the thing whenever we decide that we are unhappy with it.
We now seem ready to toss the thing whenever we decide that we are unhappy with it.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
I keep looking at those who advicate leaving and asking myself do i want to live in a country run by these clowns? The ones we have are bad enough it's like deciding between different planks.
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
LarsMac;1495551 wrote: It seems to me that we humans have evolved from creatures that used to try something, and if it didn't work, we tried to figure out how to fix it, and make it work.
We now seem ready to toss the thing whenever we decide that we are unhappy with it.
Now it's a case of when it works, do something to try to fix it. When the fix doesn't work & in fact makes things worse, to keep trying the same fix in the desperate hope that eventually the fix will work, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
We now seem ready to toss the thing whenever we decide that we are unhappy with it.
Now it's a case of when it works, do something to try to fix it. When the fix doesn't work & in fact makes things worse, to keep trying the same fix in the desperate hope that eventually the fix will work, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
FourPart;1495638 wrote: Now it's a case of when it works, do something to try to fix it. When the fix doesn't work & in fact makes things worse, to keep trying the same fix in the desperate hope that eventually the fix will work, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
See: American Education
Also see: The Republican Party
See: American Education
Also see: The Republican Party
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
Here's an interesting point of Government deviancy.
The acclaimed tax funded Government propaganda leaflet (https://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/__data/as ... otland.pdf) states, on page 3:
Who has produced this booklet?
This booklet has been produced by the Electoral Commission.
The Electoral Commission is an independent body that works
across the UK. We have a duty to provide public information about
voting in the referendum. We monitor how campaigners spend
money campaigning in the referendum but we do not regulate or
control what they say in support of their arguments.
Information from lead campaigners
Fair enough, you might say.
The next 2 pages (4 & 5) are unashamedly biased - including big highlighted ticks & pictures on the Pro Europe, and plain text with no pics on the Anti-EU page.
The REAL sneakyness comes, though at the very end, in the very small copyright print.
© The Electoral Commission 2016 (except for Pages 4 and 5 and the box on Page 6)
It speaks for itself really, doesn't it?
The acclaimed tax funded Government propaganda leaflet (https://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/__data/as ... otland.pdf) states, on page 3:
Who has produced this booklet?
This booklet has been produced by the Electoral Commission.
The Electoral Commission is an independent body that works
across the UK. We have a duty to provide public information about
voting in the referendum. We monitor how campaigners spend
money campaigning in the referendum but we do not regulate or
control what they say in support of their arguments.
Information from lead campaigners
Fair enough, you might say.
The next 2 pages (4 & 5) are unashamedly biased - including big highlighted ticks & pictures on the Pro Europe, and plain text with no pics on the Anti-EU page.
The REAL sneakyness comes, though at the very end, in the very small copyright print.
© The Electoral Commission 2016 (except for Pages 4 and 5 and the box on Page 6)
It speaks for itself really, doesn't it?
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
You forgot to mention this on page three ?
They are examples supplied by the appropriate campaigning groups.
On the next two pages there is information on the main
arguments for remaining a member or leaving the European
Union. The content is written by organisations who are
campaigning either for the UK to remain a member or leave the
European Union and is printed exactly as it has been provided.
This content is not written by the Electoral Commission.
They are examples supplied by the appropriate campaigning groups.
On the next two pages there is information on the main
arguments for remaining a member or leaving the European
Union. The content is written by organisations who are
campaigning either for the UK to remain a member or leave the
European Union and is printed exactly as it has been provided.
This content is not written by the Electoral Commission.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
Bruv;1496010 wrote: You forgot to mention this on page three ?
They are examples supplied by the appropriate campaigning groups.
It's not even a matter of the content - it's the presentation & the deceitful way in which it was done.
They are examples supplied by the appropriate campaigning groups.
It's not even a matter of the content - it's the presentation & the deceitful way in which it was done.
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
FourPart;1496025 wrote: It's not even a matter of the content - it's the presentation & the deceitful way in which it was done.
You are complaining about the quality of the different campaign documents, the remain one being the more striking.
The Electoral Commission booklet informs us when the vote takes place, who can vote, the different methods of voting, how you can register to vote, how you actually vote and shows 2 samples of the arguments for and against, plus where you can find the different campaign groups for more information.
You are complaining about the quality of the different campaign documents, the remain one being the more striking.
The Electoral Commission booklet informs us when the vote takes place, who can vote, the different methods of voting, how you can register to vote, how you actually vote and shows 2 samples of the arguments for and against, plus where you can find the different campaign groups for more information.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
My complaint is more of the misleading way in which the Government puts the leaflet across. First of all, right at the start it is clearly stated that the leaflet is produced by the Electoral Commission. Then, the presentation of the centre pages are seen to be ridiculously biased, and you then wonder how could this be an Electoral Commission publication. Finally, right at the very end, hidden in the Copyright statement it admits that the lions share of the information included was NOT by the Electoral Commission. It was just deliberately put together to deceive. What's worse is the way in which that one sided propaganda was paid for by the Tax Payer.
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
FourPart;1496052 wrote: Then, the presentation of the centre pages are seen to be ridiculously biased.........
The pages you speak of are one from the Yes argument and one from the No, where is the bias ?
The pages you speak of are one from the Yes argument and one from the No, where is the bias ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
Bruv;1496054 wrote: The pages you speak of are one from the Yes argument and one from the No, where is the bias ?On which page are the pleasing pictures, and the positively highlighted ticks, with the titles in massive font sizes? Where are the pictures on the No page? Where are the positive highlighted ticks?
If you truly believe that to be a balanced information leaflet, you are either mentally unbalanced yourself, or extremely gullible.
If you truly believe that to be a balanced information leaflet, you are either mentally unbalanced yourself, or extremely gullible.
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
FourPart;1496057 wrote: On which page are the pleasing pictures, and the positively highlighted ticks, with the titles in massive font sizes? Where are the pictures on the No page? Where are the positive highlighted ticks?
If you truly believe that to be a balanced information leaflet, you are either mentally unbalanced yourself, or extremely gullible.
The pamphlets are supplied by the relevant campaign groups.
The positive highlighted ticks are the artwork of the remain group.
The less attractive page that follows it is the artwork of the Out group.
You are judging the effectiveness of the graphic artists work that created the pamphlets. And yes I would agree the Remain one wins hands down.
Any bias is in the Electoral Commission's choice of the better Remain artwork.
All the information supplied is totally unbiased............apart from the campaign leaflets you appear to think reflect the Electoral Commissions bias.
Any bias found in the communication is in the biased eye of the reader.
If you truly believe that to be a balanced information leaflet, you are either mentally unbalanced yourself, or extremely gullible.
The pamphlets are supplied by the relevant campaign groups.
The positive highlighted ticks are the artwork of the remain group.
The less attractive page that follows it is the artwork of the Out group.
You are judging the effectiveness of the graphic artists work that created the pamphlets. And yes I would agree the Remain one wins hands down.
Any bias is in the Electoral Commission's choice of the better Remain artwork.
All the information supplied is totally unbiased............apart from the campaign leaflets you appear to think reflect the Electoral Commissions bias.
Any bias found in the communication is in the biased eye of the reader.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
Bruv;1496078 wrote: The pamphlets are supplied by the relevant campaign groups.
The positive highlighted ticks are the artwork of the remain group.
The less attractive page that follows it is the artwork of the Out group.
You are judging the effectiveness of the graphic artists work that created the pamphlets. And yes I would agree the Remain one wins hands down.
Any bias is in the Electoral Commission's choice of the better Remain artwork.
All the information supplied is totally unbiased............apart from the campaign leaflets you appear to think reflect the Electoral Commissions bias.
Any bias found in the communication is in the biased eye of the reader.
Even someone who was unable to read would be able to see the bias. They wouldn't even need to know what it was about. Just show them the leaflet & ask which way it is biased.
Besides, there is no mention of who designed the leaflet - only who promotes the campaign. Not the same thing.
The positive highlighted ticks are the artwork of the remain group.
The less attractive page that follows it is the artwork of the Out group.
You are judging the effectiveness of the graphic artists work that created the pamphlets. And yes I would agree the Remain one wins hands down.
Any bias is in the Electoral Commission's choice of the better Remain artwork.
All the information supplied is totally unbiased............apart from the campaign leaflets you appear to think reflect the Electoral Commissions bias.
Any bias found in the communication is in the biased eye of the reader.
Even someone who was unable to read would be able to see the bias. They wouldn't even need to know what it was about. Just show them the leaflet & ask which way it is biased.
Besides, there is no mention of who designed the leaflet - only who promotes the campaign. Not the same thing.
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I wouldn't want to you on my jury should I ever go on trial
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
Bruv;1496134 wrote: I wouldn't want to you on my jury should I ever go on trial
- Point 1
Point 2
Point 3
Point 1
Point 2
Point 3
Same information on each list. So which one is biased?
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What are you talking ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
The centre pages of this Electoral Commission leaflet are left side for "remain" in Europe and the right side for "leave" Europe. I did notice that the pretty pictures on the REMAIN page took up a lot of space, along with the large titles and the ticks. The LEAVE page on the right had no pics and displayed a more serious presentation, consequently giving them more room to include more important information, explaining clearly a lot of the benefits of leaving the EU.
I know which page I take more notice of and it isn't the "Ra ra " page with its cheap advertising type presentation, and its pretty pics !
I don't understand where you think there is bias FourPart. On page 3 the Electoral Commission states clearly that the booklet has been produced by them. Immediately below that paragraph in a highlghted 'box' is an explanation concerning the following two pages, which is written in a straight forward and fair manner and also states that the Electoral Commission has not written either of the 2 centre pages, but has printed the two arguments exactly as they have been provided. They also print the two separate websites in bold type. The Electoral Commission have produced the booklet as they stated, but I see no bias either for 'Remain' or 'Leave'.
Having read this booklet carefully, I feel that as long as readers realise that the government are endeavouring to frighten the public into making a 'remain' vote, and so long as the public read carefully between the lines, they will see the advantages of leaving the European Union. How the heck the government can say that the UK will be worse off if they leave, is unbelievable ! Just think what money we will not have to pay every day with only about 20% return - £54 MILLION PER DAY to Europe !
Just that alone should persuade people ! Let alone getting back control of our borders, making our own laws and not having them forced upon us by Europe's unelected bigots - as many as 500 new laws a year !!!! Being able to increase our world trade as well as retaining trade with Europe (Europe does actually need our trade), etc. etc. Norway seems to manage alright without joining the European Union, so does Iceland !
Any way as regards that booklet, I can find no bias in it, only them being as fair as possible.
However the government's leaflet that landed through our front door the other day was full of absolute tosh ! Talk about scaremongering !!
I believe that Europe needs the UK more than the UK needs Europe, the Euro is not very healthy now, and I have a feeling that other countries may want to leave the Union some time soon. In fact I personally feel that the European Union is slowly collapsing and I don't think that all these immigrants are helping one bit. There is definitely unrest in one or two of the main countries, where they are not very happy how the European Union is proceeding.
I know which page I take more notice of and it isn't the "Ra ra " page with its cheap advertising type presentation, and its pretty pics !
I don't understand where you think there is bias FourPart. On page 3 the Electoral Commission states clearly that the booklet has been produced by them. Immediately below that paragraph in a highlghted 'box' is an explanation concerning the following two pages, which is written in a straight forward and fair manner and also states that the Electoral Commission has not written either of the 2 centre pages, but has printed the two arguments exactly as they have been provided. They also print the two separate websites in bold type. The Electoral Commission have produced the booklet as they stated, but I see no bias either for 'Remain' or 'Leave'.
Having read this booklet carefully, I feel that as long as readers realise that the government are endeavouring to frighten the public into making a 'remain' vote, and so long as the public read carefully between the lines, they will see the advantages of leaving the European Union. How the heck the government can say that the UK will be worse off if they leave, is unbelievable ! Just think what money we will not have to pay every day with only about 20% return - £54 MILLION PER DAY to Europe !
Just that alone should persuade people ! Let alone getting back control of our borders, making our own laws and not having them forced upon us by Europe's unelected bigots - as many as 500 new laws a year !!!! Being able to increase our world trade as well as retaining trade with Europe (Europe does actually need our trade), etc. etc. Norway seems to manage alright without joining the European Union, so does Iceland !
Any way as regards that booklet, I can find no bias in it, only them being as fair as possible.
However the government's leaflet that landed through our front door the other day was full of absolute tosh ! Talk about scaremongering !!
I believe that Europe needs the UK more than the UK needs Europe, the Euro is not very healthy now, and I have a feeling that other countries may want to leave the Union some time soon. In fact I personally feel that the European Union is slowly collapsing and I don't think that all these immigrants are helping one bit. There is definitely unrest in one or two of the main countries, where they are not very happy how the European Union is proceeding.
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
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G#Gill;1496202 wrote:
I don't understand where you think there is bias FourPart. On page 3 the Electoral Commission states clearly that the booklet has been produced by them. Immediately below that paragraph in a highlghted 'box' is an explanation concerning the following two pages, which is written in a straight forward and fair manner and also states that the Electoral Commission has not written either of the 2 centre pages, but has printed the two arguments exactly as they have been provided. They also print the two separate websites in bold type. The Electoral Commission have produced the booklet as they stated, but I see no bias either for 'Remain' or 'Leave'.
As I said, it's put together to appear fully legitimate by implying that the leaflet was produced by the Electoral Commission, but concealing the fact that the actual content was not. The disclaimer, admitting that it was not is hidden at the very end in the smallprint of the Copyright notice.
As for your not being swayed by the pretties, but going for the content - good. However those that do the reading tend to have already decided which way they intend to vote. Those who may be swayed are probably going to be those that are more attracted to the eye candy, rather than dull, boring textual information, without pretty pictures. It's not the content that is biased - it's the presentation of it.
I don't understand where you think there is bias FourPart. On page 3 the Electoral Commission states clearly that the booklet has been produced by them. Immediately below that paragraph in a highlghted 'box' is an explanation concerning the following two pages, which is written in a straight forward and fair manner and also states that the Electoral Commission has not written either of the 2 centre pages, but has printed the two arguments exactly as they have been provided. They also print the two separate websites in bold type. The Electoral Commission have produced the booklet as they stated, but I see no bias either for 'Remain' or 'Leave'.
As I said, it's put together to appear fully legitimate by implying that the leaflet was produced by the Electoral Commission, but concealing the fact that the actual content was not. The disclaimer, admitting that it was not is hidden at the very end in the smallprint of the Copyright notice.
As for your not being swayed by the pretties, but going for the content - good. However those that do the reading tend to have already decided which way they intend to vote. Those who may be swayed are probably going to be those that are more attracted to the eye candy, rather than dull, boring textual information, without pretty pictures. It's not the content that is biased - it's the presentation of it.
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FourPart;1496205 wrote: .....................However those that do the reading tend to have already decided which way they intend to vote.
Is that a confession ?
Is that a confession ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
FourPart;1496205 wrote: As I said, it's put together to appear fully legitimate by implying that the leaflet was produced by the Electoral Commission, but concealing the fact that the actual content was not. The disclaimer, admitting that it was not is hidden at the very end in the smallprint of the Copyright notice.
As for your not being swayed by the pretties, but going for the content - good. However those that do the reading tend to have already decided which way they intend to vote. Those who may be swayed are probably going to be those that are more attracted to the eye candy, rather than dull, boring textual information, without pretty pictures. It's not the content that is biased - it's the presentation of it.
I still cannot see where there is bias, FourPart
On page 3 the Electoral Commission states clearly that the booklet has been produced by them................................................................and also states that the Electoral Commission has not written either of the 2 centre pages, but has printed the two arguments exactly as they have been provided. They also print the two separate websites in bold type. Hardly bias is it ?
You say it's the presentation that is biased. The Electoral Commission printed the two centre pages precisely as they were presented to them for publication - the 'Remain' page was rather 'flashy' bordering on sensationalist advertising, whereas the 'Leave' page was far more business-like and serious.
I would love to know who the so-called 'experts' are that the 'remain' group refer to ! I would also love to know how those so-called experts know what will happen if the vote goes to 'remain' ! I think I can safely say that nobody actually knows what will happen if the vote goes either way. If the vote goes to 'leave' it depends what the rest of Europe does then, and whether other countries do similar to UK, as there seem to be murmurings along those lines now. If the vote goes to 'remain' then I have a feeling that I shall be saving my pennies to get a passport as soon as possible, because I do not relish more years of Europe rule. Neither do I relish the thought of TTIP with American big businesses joining with Europe's big businesses to powerfully laud it over the millions of poor ordinary folk.
If people vote to stay in Europe, I have the feeling that our poor country will sink faster into being a third world country with absolutely no control left - being made a laughing stock even more, and sinking under the weight of greatly increased population from Europe ! I have this terrible feeling of dread in my heart, that the sheeple of our once proud and respected country will be swayed by all the bullying scaremongering of the 'remain' lobby and, ignorantly, vote to remain in the European Union. I just hope that I am wrong.
As for your not being swayed by the pretties, but going for the content - good. However those that do the reading tend to have already decided which way they intend to vote. Those who may be swayed are probably going to be those that are more attracted to the eye candy, rather than dull, boring textual information, without pretty pictures. It's not the content that is biased - it's the presentation of it.
I still cannot see where there is bias, FourPart
On page 3 the Electoral Commission states clearly that the booklet has been produced by them................................................................and also states that the Electoral Commission has not written either of the 2 centre pages, but has printed the two arguments exactly as they have been provided. They also print the two separate websites in bold type. Hardly bias is it ?
You say it's the presentation that is biased. The Electoral Commission printed the two centre pages precisely as they were presented to them for publication - the 'Remain' page was rather 'flashy' bordering on sensationalist advertising, whereas the 'Leave' page was far more business-like and serious.
I would love to know who the so-called 'experts' are that the 'remain' group refer to ! I would also love to know how those so-called experts know what will happen if the vote goes to 'remain' ! I think I can safely say that nobody actually knows what will happen if the vote goes either way. If the vote goes to 'leave' it depends what the rest of Europe does then, and whether other countries do similar to UK, as there seem to be murmurings along those lines now. If the vote goes to 'remain' then I have a feeling that I shall be saving my pennies to get a passport as soon as possible, because I do not relish more years of Europe rule. Neither do I relish the thought of TTIP with American big businesses joining with Europe's big businesses to powerfully laud it over the millions of poor ordinary folk.
If people vote to stay in Europe, I have the feeling that our poor country will sink faster into being a third world country with absolutely no control left - being made a laughing stock even more, and sinking under the weight of greatly increased population from Europe ! I have this terrible feeling of dread in my heart, that the sheeple of our once proud and respected country will be swayed by all the bullying scaremongering of the 'remain' lobby and, ignorantly, vote to remain in the European Union. I just hope that I am wrong.
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
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Apparently the vote will be heavily influenced by your age, Gilly you are *cough* a mature voter and are more likely to vote leave, the youngsters who have no recollection of the good old days are happy to be counted as a small part of a large European group...................that is leading me to go for remain.....cos I'm young at heart.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
Bruv;1496227 wrote: Apparently the vote will be heavily influenced by your age, Gilly you are *cough* a mature voter and are more likely to vote leave, the youngsters who have no recollection of the good old days are happy to be counted as a small part of a large European group...................that is leading me to go for remain.....cos I'm young at heart.
Oh for pity's sake Bruv ! I thought you were more intelligent than that! How very disappointing.
You realise that you will not be able to have another referendum for years ! Do you really want to loose control to Europe ? Do you really want to see thousands more migrants swarming into our small country ? You seem to be happy with having to abide unreservedly with whatever new laws are forced onto us, and we are not allowed to refuse to accept these laws, cooked up by an unelected group of power hungry bigots ! We would loose what little identity we have left. It seems that the older people (the grey voters) are the only ones who can foresee huge problems if this country stays in Europe. It seems that we are the only group that can see and understand what this government are doing to this once great country. I personally do not want to be pulled back to life similar to life just post second world war.
Of course you are right, the young people have no idea what it is like to be in the thick of austerity. They think that we are in austerity at the moment, but boy are they in for a shock if they vote to remain in Europe ! Here's me thinking our young people were intelligent and were not easily fooled......................... oh dear !
By the way, have you not questioned why there has been NO audit since the EU was first organised. I ask why no audit ? What has been done with all the billions that have poured into Europe from all the member countries ? I smell corruption, don't you? Why haven't they produced accounts for audit ? What are they hiding ? A legitimate business in this country would be in severe trouble if they did the same !! What a way to run a business ! You want to be a part of that ???
Oh for pity's sake Bruv ! I thought you were more intelligent than that! How very disappointing.
You realise that you will not be able to have another referendum for years ! Do you really want to loose control to Europe ? Do you really want to see thousands more migrants swarming into our small country ? You seem to be happy with having to abide unreservedly with whatever new laws are forced onto us, and we are not allowed to refuse to accept these laws, cooked up by an unelected group of power hungry bigots ! We would loose what little identity we have left. It seems that the older people (the grey voters) are the only ones who can foresee huge problems if this country stays in Europe. It seems that we are the only group that can see and understand what this government are doing to this once great country. I personally do not want to be pulled back to life similar to life just post second world war.
Of course you are right, the young people have no idea what it is like to be in the thick of austerity. They think that we are in austerity at the moment, but boy are they in for a shock if they vote to remain in Europe ! Here's me thinking our young people were intelligent and were not easily fooled......................... oh dear !
By the way, have you not questioned why there has been NO audit since the EU was first organised. I ask why no audit ? What has been done with all the billions that have poured into Europe from all the member countries ? I smell corruption, don't you? Why haven't they produced accounts for audit ? What are they hiding ? A legitimate business in this country would be in severe trouble if they did the same !! What a way to run a business ! You want to be a part of that ???
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
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G#Gill;1496230 wrote: Oh for pity's sake Bruv ! I thought you were more intelligent than that! How very disappointing.
Likewise Gilly.
The migrants ? What migrants, fellow Europeans, or the other economic migrants, or the migrants escaping war zones ?
These laws, which ones are you talking about ? Have you one specific law,or is the straight banana regulations type ones ?
All the world's problems can't be the EU's fault.
I have to say I am not totally happy voting remain, I see a lot of hysteria from both sides, but I would be even more unhappy voting out.
Likewise Gilly.
The migrants ? What migrants, fellow Europeans, or the other economic migrants, or the migrants escaping war zones ?
These laws, which ones are you talking about ? Have you one specific law,or is the straight banana regulations type ones ?
All the world's problems can't be the EU's fault.
I have to say I am not totally happy voting remain, I see a lot of hysteria from both sides, but I would be even more unhappy voting out.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
Well I just hope that people vote with common sense and conscience.
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
EU - In or Out - Straw Poll
posted by ggill
You realise that you will not be able to have another referendum for years ! Do you really want to loose control to Europe ? Do you really want to see thousands more migrants swarming into our small country ? You seem to be happy with having to abide unreservedly with whatever new laws are forced onto us, and we are not allowed to refuse to accept these laws, cooked up by an unelected group of power hungry bigots ! We would loose what little identity we have left. It seems that the older people (the grey voters) are the only ones who can foresee huge problems if this country stays in Europe. It seems that we are the only group that can see and understand what this government are doing to this once great country. I personally do not want to be pulled back to life similar to life just post second world war.
Of course you are right, the young people have no idea what it is like to be in the thick of austerity. They think that we are in austerity at the moment, but boy are they in for a shock if they vote to remain in Europe ! Here's me thinking our young people were intelligent and were not easily fooled......................... oh dear !
Actually it was the wartime generation that took us in to europe and then voted in favour of staying in a referendum instigated by a bunch of morons clinging on to the notion of a britain that still had an empire to trade with.
I too remember the austerity of the seventies and the difference being in europe made to our economy without being a member we would have ended up a fading memory somewhere off in the north sea. Thatcher's proud record of inward investment had nothing to so with her economic policies and everything to do with our membershipm of the eu and her later willingness o sll off our assets to the highest bidder our own politicieans destroyed our industrial economy not the eu.
The policies being put forward by those wanting to leave do not bode well for the future of ordinary working people or for our economy. For instance one of the reasons tata are pulling out of tbe uk is they are joinig in with the krupp thyssen group who as it happens have plants in germany that make the same kind of steel
Port Talbot steel plant could be rescued by German company | UK news | The Guardian
Reuters - After UK exit, Tata may combine European steel business with Thyssenkrupp - source
On one level it sems to mke they are preparing for a leave vote in the referendum - getting thei nuts out before someone lights the fire.
All our major industrial production is foreign owned by foreign companies why keep factories on in the Uk whn they can shut them down so cheaply (thank you tories for the social contract opt out) and move to countries not outside the eu tariff zone why would you invest in a country outside the euroipean trading zone? Vote no and you are standing cap in hand hoping you can still do business in europe with a group of people who have no reason to want to trade unless it is at the most advantageous terms thriough companies that are global in their outlook.
The leave campaign cannot come upo with one instance of eu interference that is stopping brituish companies trading with whoever they like. their whole campagn is a tissue of hysterical nonsense and half truths dreamd up by city dropouts and a half baked wanna be prime ministers more interested in a good sound bite than anything else. before you ask i don't thinik much of the other side either but they have the dubiousd virtue of being half witted.
You realise that you will not be able to have another referendum for years ! Do you really want to loose control to Europe ? Do you really want to see thousands more migrants swarming into our small country ? You seem to be happy with having to abide unreservedly with whatever new laws are forced onto us, and we are not allowed to refuse to accept these laws, cooked up by an unelected group of power hungry bigots ! We would loose what little identity we have left. It seems that the older people (the grey voters) are the only ones who can foresee huge problems if this country stays in Europe. It seems that we are the only group that can see and understand what this government are doing to this once great country. I personally do not want to be pulled back to life similar to life just post second world war.
Of course you are right, the young people have no idea what it is like to be in the thick of austerity. They think that we are in austerity at the moment, but boy are they in for a shock if they vote to remain in Europe ! Here's me thinking our young people were intelligent and were not easily fooled......................... oh dear !
Actually it was the wartime generation that took us in to europe and then voted in favour of staying in a referendum instigated by a bunch of morons clinging on to the notion of a britain that still had an empire to trade with.
I too remember the austerity of the seventies and the difference being in europe made to our economy without being a member we would have ended up a fading memory somewhere off in the north sea. Thatcher's proud record of inward investment had nothing to so with her economic policies and everything to do with our membershipm of the eu and her later willingness o sll off our assets to the highest bidder our own politicieans destroyed our industrial economy not the eu.
The policies being put forward by those wanting to leave do not bode well for the future of ordinary working people or for our economy. For instance one of the reasons tata are pulling out of tbe uk is they are joinig in with the krupp thyssen group who as it happens have plants in germany that make the same kind of steel
Port Talbot steel plant could be rescued by German company | UK news | The Guardian
Reuters - After UK exit, Tata may combine European steel business with Thyssenkrupp - source
On one level it sems to mke they are preparing for a leave vote in the referendum - getting thei nuts out before someone lights the fire.
All our major industrial production is foreign owned by foreign companies why keep factories on in the Uk whn they can shut them down so cheaply (thank you tories for the social contract opt out) and move to countries not outside the eu tariff zone why would you invest in a country outside the euroipean trading zone? Vote no and you are standing cap in hand hoping you can still do business in europe with a group of people who have no reason to want to trade unless it is at the most advantageous terms thriough companies that are global in their outlook.
The leave campaign cannot come upo with one instance of eu interference that is stopping brituish companies trading with whoever they like. their whole campagn is a tissue of hysterical nonsense and half truths dreamd up by city dropouts and a half baked wanna be prime ministers more interested in a good sound bite than anything else. before you ask i don't thinik much of the other side either but they have the dubiousd virtue of being half witted.
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I personally wouldn't have minded if the joining with Europe had been left as the EEC, purely trade and not federal. I did not vote for federal Europe and I was relieved that we kept the pound sterling and refused the Euro.
I don't like being ruled by an unelected group of bigots who can veto anything that the UK puts forward. Also I cannot understand why the European ruling bigots haven't presented their accounts at any time and I believe they have never had an audit, so that alone should bring forth suspicion of corruption. Well I wouldn't trust any group of people who flout laws and rules like that. Why haven't they had audits for pity's sake ? Where has the money really gone ?? No way could I ever sanction that sort of ruling body. How many have been conned by Cameron's and Osborne's fabrications? How many people are that blind ?
I don't like being ruled by an unelected group of bigots who can veto anything that the UK puts forward. Also I cannot understand why the European ruling bigots haven't presented their accounts at any time and I believe they have never had an audit, so that alone should bring forth suspicion of corruption. Well I wouldn't trust any group of people who flout laws and rules like that. Why haven't they had audits for pity's sake ? Where has the money really gone ?? No way could I ever sanction that sort of ruling body. How many have been conned by Cameron's and Osborne's fabrications? How many people are that blind ?
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully