Damning government report on TTIP
Fresh off the press today is the government’s business report on the EU-US trade deal, TTIP, and its potential impacts on the UK. It finds that TTIP will have little economic and political benefit, even going as far as to say that it will pose ‘meaningful costs’ to the UK. These damning conclusions come with no surprise, and reveal that TTIP is ‘likely to provide the UK with few or no benefits’.
Here are the key findings;
(1) There is little reason to think that an EU-US investment chapter will provide the UK with significant economic benefits. No two countries in the world exchange more investment than the UK and the US, and there is no evidence that US or UK investors view either country as suffering from the kinds of political risks against which investment treaties are supposed to protect. Moreover, existing evidence suggests that the presence of an EU-US investment chapter is highly unlikely to encourage investment above and beyond what would otherwise take place. US investors have generally not taken much notice of investment treaties in the past when deciding where, and how much, to invest abroad – even when dealing with far more questionable jurisdictions than the UK.
(2) There is little reason to think that an EU-US investment chapter will provide the UK with significant political benefits. The political relationship between Washington and Whitehall is exceptionally strong, and we are aware of no evidence that it is vulnerable to a meaningful risk of investor-state disputes that would become undesirably “politicized in the absence of an investment treaty. Secondly, we find it unlikely that an EU-US agreement would make significant negotiating partners – like India and China – more or less willing to agree to an investment treaty with the EU. Finally, it is unclear whether the US is particularly keen on an investment protection chapter with the EU, which means the Commission may not be able to use such a chapter as an effective ‘bargaining chip’ in other trade and/or investment negotiations with Washington. However, these are all issues that BIS might wish to explore in further detail.
(3) There is some reason to expect an EU-US investment chapter will impose meaningful economic costs on the UK. Based on Canada’s experience under NAFTA, we would expect an EU-US investment chapter to be regularly invoked by US investors against the UK for governmental actions that would normally not be challengeable under UK law. While we would not expect the UK to lose many of these cases on the merits, the UK will necessarily incur costs to defend itself. Legal costs in investment treaty claims are substantial. The UK government may also find itself subject to pressure to settle some claims, even when there are reasonable prospects of successfully defending the claim on the merits. Finally, given the uncertain meaning of key elements of international investment law, it is possible that the UK would occasionally lose some arbitrations on the merits and be liable for significant damage awards.
(4) There is some reason to expect an EU-US investment chapter to impose meaningful political costs on the UK. Under investment treaties similar to a likely EU-US investment chapter, US investors have brought claims that raise potentially controversial questions. Should US investors bring similar claims against the UK, this will increase the chances that a particular dispute could provoke a backlash against the EU-US economic agreement as a whole or, perhaps more broadly, investor-state arbitration as a governing institution.
Follow this link to read the full report:
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...ion-treaty.pdf
Damning government report on TTIP
Damning government report on TTIP
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
Damning government report on TTIP
In south american and african countries where countries have been forced to privatise utilties by treaties such as this the effects have been catastrophic.
Water privatisation: a worldwide failure? | John Vidal | Global development | The Guardian
Come to that it's been fairly catastrophic in our own country. How long before the water companies start demanding giovernment bailouts tom pay for infrastructure? It's not even good capitalism some things are just far too important to be left to the market, health and education being the two main ones.
Water privatisation: a worldwide failure? | John Vidal | Global development | The Guardian
Come to that it's been fairly catastrophic in our own country. How long before the water companies start demanding giovernment bailouts tom pay for infrastructure? It's not even good capitalism some things are just far too important to be left to the market, health and education being the two main ones.
Damning government report on TTIP
Can anyone explain to me how we got into this situation?
Our utilities including housing worked very well, why did we allow it to change ?
What are the driving forces today that are forcing through these sort of treaties ?
If it is the rich corporations influencing government for mutual benefit, long term the ultra rich will have to retreat to safe places away from the angry masses.
The prospect for the future are frightening.
Our utilities including housing worked very well, why did we allow it to change ?
What are the driving forces today that are forcing through these sort of treaties ?
If it is the rich corporations influencing government for mutual benefit, long term the ultra rich will have to retreat to safe places away from the angry masses.
The prospect for the future are frightening.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
-
AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6631
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
Damning government report on TTIP
The ultra rich aren't afraid of the masses. The masses, push comes to shove, will be machine-gunned down. After all, "If they would rather die, . . . they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population." (Bah Humbug)
Damning government report on TTIP
AnneBoleyn;1495046 wrote: The ultra rich aren't afraid of the masses. The masses, push comes to shove, will be machine-gunned down. After all, "If they would rather die, . . . they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population." (Bah Humbug)
That, Anne, may be nearer the truth for the future than people realise. Oh it's a definite maybe that humans will destroy their own planet one way or another.
No wonder those intelligent beings from out there just skim round earth to check how we savage ignorants are going on, from time to time, then bugger off convinced that we are still pathetic ignorant savages and they won't risk a confrontation. Because you can be sure that, should there ever be a 'visitation' from such intelligents, for the forseable future at least, the visitors would probably be shot on sight out of panic ! We are so terribly warlike, greedy and unfeeling, oh and stupid ! (well those that are supposed to be 'leading' us are )
That, Anne, may be nearer the truth for the future than people realise. Oh it's a definite maybe that humans will destroy their own planet one way or another.
No wonder those intelligent beings from out there just skim round earth to check how we savage ignorants are going on, from time to time, then bugger off convinced that we are still pathetic ignorant savages and they won't risk a confrontation. Because you can be sure that, should there ever be a 'visitation' from such intelligents, for the forseable future at least, the visitors would probably be shot on sight out of panic ! We are so terribly warlike, greedy and unfeeling, oh and stupid ! (well those that are supposed to be 'leading' us are )
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
Damning government report on TTIP
Bruv;1495043 wrote: Can anyone explain to me how we got into this situation?
Our utilities including housing worked very well, why did we allow it to change ?
What are the driving forces today that are forcing through these sort of treaties ?
If it is the rich corporations influencing government for mutual benefit, long term the ultra rich will have to retreat to safe places away from the angry masses.
The prospect for the future are frightening.
Were you around when thatcherism was in vogue? Most people opposed her policies yet look where we are today. How about monetarism - that has got to be one of the biggest cons of all time. It wasn't just thatcher this has been a world wide phenomemon all the hopes and dreams of generation twisted and warped out of all recognition and flushed down the drains. Most people just want to get on with life leaving an open field to those who would run the place. the poor have no lawyers.
Take land ownership for instance. How did so few end up owning so much? In the Uk it was warlords who carved the place up and then convinced us all they had every right to keep what they took by force. When did we decide that all the oil and gas and formerly coal and all the profits belonged to whoever owned the land? Now it's resources and corporations instead of thugs with big swords but the basic principle is the same. Steal what isn't yours then pass laws to make the theft legal anyone who objects is a tree hugging lefty liberal.
Water is a good example. NONE of the Uk's water supply infrastructue was ever in private hands (OK you can find isolated examples) it was all built by local authorities initially then government but it was always a resource that should be supplied to everyone, now it's privately owned and the profits go abroad instead of being reinvested and we have to pass laws to prevent people being left without if they can't pay, never mind what the long term health consequences would be for us all.
We're about to run out of power generation capacity because privately owned comopanies have no incentive to invest in somethuing that will give a return decades in the future.
might not be a good explanation but I could give countless examples.
A Declaration from the Poor oppressed People of England, directed to all that call themselves, or are called Lords of Manors
We whose narnes are subscribed, do in the name of all the poor oppressed people in England, declare unto you, that call your selves lords of Manors, and Lords of the Land, That in regard the King of Righteousness, our Maker, hath inlightened our hearts so far, as to see, That the earth was not made purposely for you, to be Lords of it, and we to be your Slaves, Servants, and Beggers; but it was made to be a common Livelihood to all, without respect of persons: And that your buying and selling of Land, and the Fruits of it, one to another, is The cursed thing, and was brought in by War; which hath, and still does establish murder, and theft, In the hands of some branches of Mankinde over others, which is the greatest outward burden, and unrighteous power, that the Creation groans under: For the power of inclosing Land, and owning Propriety, was brought into the Creation by your Ancestors by the Sword; which first did murther their fellow Creatures, Men, and after plunder or steal away their Land, and left this Land successively to you, their Children. And therefore, though you did not kill or theeve, yet you hold that cursed thing in your hand, by the power of the Sword; and so you justifie the wicked deeds of your Fathers; and that sin of your Fathers, shall be visited upon the Head of you, and your Children, to the third and fourth Generation, and longer too, till your bloody and theeving power be rooted out of the Land.
Leaving aside the biblical bits you could echo the sentiments right down to the present day. you should have a look at the putney debates it's basically (IMO) the same debate we are having now.
Our utilities including housing worked very well, why did we allow it to change ?
What are the driving forces today that are forcing through these sort of treaties ?
If it is the rich corporations influencing government for mutual benefit, long term the ultra rich will have to retreat to safe places away from the angry masses.
The prospect for the future are frightening.
Were you around when thatcherism was in vogue? Most people opposed her policies yet look where we are today. How about monetarism - that has got to be one of the biggest cons of all time. It wasn't just thatcher this has been a world wide phenomemon all the hopes and dreams of generation twisted and warped out of all recognition and flushed down the drains. Most people just want to get on with life leaving an open field to those who would run the place. the poor have no lawyers.
Take land ownership for instance. How did so few end up owning so much? In the Uk it was warlords who carved the place up and then convinced us all they had every right to keep what they took by force. When did we decide that all the oil and gas and formerly coal and all the profits belonged to whoever owned the land? Now it's resources and corporations instead of thugs with big swords but the basic principle is the same. Steal what isn't yours then pass laws to make the theft legal anyone who objects is a tree hugging lefty liberal.
Water is a good example. NONE of the Uk's water supply infrastructue was ever in private hands (OK you can find isolated examples) it was all built by local authorities initially then government but it was always a resource that should be supplied to everyone, now it's privately owned and the profits go abroad instead of being reinvested and we have to pass laws to prevent people being left without if they can't pay, never mind what the long term health consequences would be for us all.
We're about to run out of power generation capacity because privately owned comopanies have no incentive to invest in somethuing that will give a return decades in the future.
might not be a good explanation but I could give countless examples.
A Declaration from the Poor oppressed People of England, directed to all that call themselves, or are called Lords of Manors
We whose narnes are subscribed, do in the name of all the poor oppressed people in England, declare unto you, that call your selves lords of Manors, and Lords of the Land, That in regard the King of Righteousness, our Maker, hath inlightened our hearts so far, as to see, That the earth was not made purposely for you, to be Lords of it, and we to be your Slaves, Servants, and Beggers; but it was made to be a common Livelihood to all, without respect of persons: And that your buying and selling of Land, and the Fruits of it, one to another, is The cursed thing, and was brought in by War; which hath, and still does establish murder, and theft, In the hands of some branches of Mankinde over others, which is the greatest outward burden, and unrighteous power, that the Creation groans under: For the power of inclosing Land, and owning Propriety, was brought into the Creation by your Ancestors by the Sword; which first did murther their fellow Creatures, Men, and after plunder or steal away their Land, and left this Land successively to you, their Children. And therefore, though you did not kill or theeve, yet you hold that cursed thing in your hand, by the power of the Sword; and so you justifie the wicked deeds of your Fathers; and that sin of your Fathers, shall be visited upon the Head of you, and your Children, to the third and fourth Generation, and longer too, till your bloody and theeving power be rooted out of the Land.
Leaving aside the biblical bits you could echo the sentiments right down to the present day. you should have a look at the putney debates it's basically (IMO) the same debate we are having now.
Damning government report on TTIP
TTIP and its associated organisations will allow Corporations to sue governments if they do anything that affects their profits.. Since when did we think that Corporations made the rules...oh yeah they do already behind our back. We are slowly allowing ourselves and any rights we have to be eroded away to make rich men very much richer.
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Damning government report on TTIP
Snowfire;1495055 wrote: TTIP and its associated organisations will allow Corporations to sue governments if they do anything that affects their profits.. Since when did we think that Corporations made the rules...oh yeah they do already behind our back. We are slowly allowing ourselves and any rights we have to be eroded away to make rich men very much richer.
The question is how can the people we elect do that to us ?
In the good old days politicians were men of honour, drawn to the job to improve the life of their fellow citizens.
Now it seems they are just there to feather their own short term nests, not many long term visionaries amongst them these days.
The question is how can the people we elect do that to us ?
In the good old days politicians were men of honour, drawn to the job to improve the life of their fellow citizens.
Now it seems they are just there to feather their own short term nests, not many long term visionaries amongst them these days.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Damning government report on TTIP
As I understand it, the TTIP itself is being constructed in total secrecy. It was Wikileaks that bought to light the proposals being drawn up that even governments aren't party too. In my opinion it is to manipulate the US back into being the most powerful economy on the planet after having it's nose put out of joint over the last decade or so with the success of China, India etc. And we will just tag along like the puppet we are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatla ... artnership
The criticism are profound and wide.
The proposed agreement has been criticized and opposed by unions, charities, NGOs and environmentalists, particularly in Europe.[18][19] The Independent summarizes the negative impact of TTIP as "reducing the regulatory barriers to trade for big business, things like food safety law, environmental legislation, banking regulations and the sovereign powers of individual nations",[20] or more critically as an "assault on European and US societies by transnational corporations".[20] German economist Max Otte stated that the proposed (ISDS) court of arbitration and protection of foreign investment would mean a "complete dis-empowerment of politics"[68] and that, regarding labour economics, free trade agreements typically enforce lower standards and that TTIP would put European workers into direct competition with Americans (and in effect because of the North American Free Trade Agreement with Mexicans), which would impact European social models.[68]
An October 2014 study by Jeronim Capaldo of the Global Development and Environment Institute at Tufts University indicates that there will be losses in terms of net exports, net losses in terms of GDP, loss of labor income, job losses, reduction of the labor share, loss of government revenue and higher financial instability among European countries.[69]
British unions such as Unite and the TUC have opposed TTIP on the grounds that it would undermine the National Health Service and allows for the further privatisation of public services. A Unite spokesperson described TTIP as "about deregulation and a race to the bottom on standards. Unison has fought and won on bringing services back into the public sector. ... We cannot allow TTIP to threaten those successes."[70]
Former Foreign Secretary David Owen said that TTIP would have a significant negative impact on the UK's National Health Service because the Service would be subject to increased competition under the TTIP regime.[71]
It's entirely there to make the big corporations bigger and richer at the expense of even government
Cameron and his trough feeders will love it because it will help him privitise the NHS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatla ... artnership
The criticism are profound and wide.
The proposed agreement has been criticized and opposed by unions, charities, NGOs and environmentalists, particularly in Europe.[18][19] The Independent summarizes the negative impact of TTIP as "reducing the regulatory barriers to trade for big business, things like food safety law, environmental legislation, banking regulations and the sovereign powers of individual nations",[20] or more critically as an "assault on European and US societies by transnational corporations".[20] German economist Max Otte stated that the proposed (ISDS) court of arbitration and protection of foreign investment would mean a "complete dis-empowerment of politics"[68] and that, regarding labour economics, free trade agreements typically enforce lower standards and that TTIP would put European workers into direct competition with Americans (and in effect because of the North American Free Trade Agreement with Mexicans), which would impact European social models.[68]
An October 2014 study by Jeronim Capaldo of the Global Development and Environment Institute at Tufts University indicates that there will be losses in terms of net exports, net losses in terms of GDP, loss of labor income, job losses, reduction of the labor share, loss of government revenue and higher financial instability among European countries.[69]
British unions such as Unite and the TUC have opposed TTIP on the grounds that it would undermine the National Health Service and allows for the further privatisation of public services. A Unite spokesperson described TTIP as "about deregulation and a race to the bottom on standards. Unison has fought and won on bringing services back into the public sector. ... We cannot allow TTIP to threaten those successes."[70]
Former Foreign Secretary David Owen said that TTIP would have a significant negative impact on the UK's National Health Service because the Service would be subject to increased competition under the TTIP regime.[71]
It's entirely there to make the big corporations bigger and richer at the expense of even government
Cameron and his trough feeders will love it because it will help him privitise the NHS
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Damning government report on TTIP
Do we need an uprising of the proletariat ? Better hurry up before UK is sunk under corruption and greed ! Don't laugh, cos it could happen, and so can the uprising !
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
Damning government report on TTIP
So who is negotiating and putting into law the terms of the treaty?
It must be our own politicians ?
It must be our own politicians ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Damning government report on TTIP
Bruv;1495062 wrote: So who is negotiating and putting into law the terms of the treaty?
It must be our own politicians ?
Not politicians as such and all in secret.
From Wikipedia....
Only a few people can access the documents known as "consolidated texts", the drafts containing the most recent results of the negotiations. On the European side, authorised readers include the European Commission negotiators (most of them from the Directorate-General for Trade),[citation needed] MEPs and European Union members' MPs.[62] Upon the insistence of the US, the documents are not transmitted any more as electronic or even printed documents.[6] They are only made available [to authorised readers] in secure rooms at the European Commission HQ in Brussels, in a number of US embassies,[6] and at the offices of member states' trade ministries.[62] In all these secured rooms phones or other types of scanning device are forbidden.[6] Blank sheets of paper, marked with the reader's names, are provided on which visitors can jot down their notes.[62] On the US side, the procedure is similar: only Senators and USTR negotiators may access the documents and must comply with similar conditions.[6] .[6]
It must be our own politicians ?
Not politicians as such and all in secret.
From Wikipedia....
Only a few people can access the documents known as "consolidated texts", the drafts containing the most recent results of the negotiations. On the European side, authorised readers include the European Commission negotiators (most of them from the Directorate-General for Trade),[citation needed] MEPs and European Union members' MPs.[62] Upon the insistence of the US, the documents are not transmitted any more as electronic or even printed documents.[6] They are only made available [to authorised readers] in secure rooms at the European Commission HQ in Brussels, in a number of US embassies,[6] and at the offices of member states' trade ministries.[62] In all these secured rooms phones or other types of scanning device are forbidden.[6] Blank sheets of paper, marked with the reader's names, are provided on which visitors can jot down their notes.[62] On the US side, the procedure is similar: only Senators and USTR negotiators may access the documents and must comply with similar conditions.[6] .[6]
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Damning government report on TTIP
We don't know what we've got till we've got it. Then it's too late
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Damning government report on TTIP
Snowfire;1495064 wrote: We don't know what we've got till we've got it. Then it's too late
Is this the ultimate conspiracy theory ?
Or is it all part of the Out Campaign ?
There are shadowy leaders of financial corporations negotiating with elected politicians in private.
Once the plans are agreed, the European commission can wave it through, without going near the member states governments.
Pushing me toward a No vote.
Is this the ultimate conspiracy theory ?
Or is it all part of the Out Campaign ?
There are shadowy leaders of financial corporations negotiating with elected politicians in private.
Once the plans are agreed, the European commission can wave it through, without going near the member states governments.
Pushing me toward a No vote.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Damning government report on TTIP
Bruv;1495068 wrote: Is this the ultimate conspiracy theory ?
Or is it all part of the Out Campaign ?
There are shadowy leaders of financial corporations negotiating with elected politicians in private.
Once the plans are agreed, the European commission can wave it through, without going near the member states governments.
Pushing me toward a No vote.
That's it in a nutshell. It enables corporations to sue government states
The lies behind this transatlantic trade deal | George Monbiot | Opinion | The Guardian
Or is it all part of the Out Campaign ?
There are shadowy leaders of financial corporations negotiating with elected politicians in private.
Once the plans are agreed, the European commission can wave it through, without going near the member states governments.
Pushing me toward a No vote.
That's it in a nutshell. It enables corporations to sue government states
The lies behind this transatlantic trade deal | George Monbiot | Opinion | The Guardian
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Damning government report on TTIP
As with the TPP, I see more bad than good in the TTIP, unless you're a large corporation without a conscience. It does not seem to benefit the citizens, which is probably why it is being kept secret from them (us).
Damning government report on TTIP
It's not just us It;s an issue in the american pesidential elections.
Trade policy is no longer just for political nerds: it matters in the UK and US | Business | The Guardian
https://www.rt.com/usa/333379-msnbc-cen ... nders-tpp/
Trans-Pacific Partnership: Hillary Clinton says she does not support the agreement | Americas | News | The Independent
Even donald trump brings things like this up
Trump: Obama's Trans-Pacific Partnership Deal Is 'Insanity'
Trade policy is no longer just for political nerds: it matters in the UK and US | Business | The Guardian
https://www.rt.com/usa/333379-msnbc-cen ... nders-tpp/
Trans-Pacific Partnership: Hillary Clinton says she does not support the agreement | Americas | News | The Independent
Even donald trump brings things like this up
Trump: Obama's Trans-Pacific Partnership Deal Is 'Insanity'
Damning government report on TTIP
Could this spell the end or are we expecting too much ?
Massive document leak spells 'end of TTIP' | War On Want
Additionally, they show that the USA is refusing to accept any 'reforms' suggested by the EU to the hugely controversial investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) 'corporate court' mechanism, which allows big business to sue governments for lost profits.
You can stick it ! Why would we sign up to this ?
Massive document leak spells 'end of TTIP' | War On Want
Additionally, they show that the USA is refusing to accept any 'reforms' suggested by the EU to the hugely controversial investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) 'corporate court' mechanism, which allows big business to sue governments for lost profits.
You can stick it ! Why would we sign up to this ?
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Damning government report on TTIP
Not likely How much have you seen about this in the mainstream media? There are mass protests throughout europe butb you wouldn;t know that if you just read the dailay mail or watch the bbc.
TTIP: Jeremy Corbyn, Nigel Farage, Nicola Sturgeon and Natalie Bennett sign appeal to exempt NHS from trade deal | UK Politics | News | The Independent
It's not just the NHS how do privately run prisons grab you.
UKIP by the way want to privatise the NHS anyway.
TTIP: Jeremy Corbyn, Nigel Farage, Nicola Sturgeon and Natalie Bennett sign appeal to exempt NHS from trade deal | UK Politics | News | The Independent
It's not just the NHS how do privately run prisons grab you.
UKIP by the way want to privatise the NHS anyway.
Damning government report on TTIP
gmc;1495239 wrote: Not likely How much have you seen about this in the mainstream media? There are mass protests throughout europe butb you wouldn;t know that if you just read the dailay mail or watch the bbc.
TTIP: Jeremy Corbyn, Nigel Farage, Nicola Sturgeon and Natalie Bennett sign appeal to exempt NHS from trade deal | UK Politics | News | The Independent
It's not just the NHS how do privately run prisons grab you.
UKIP by the way want to privatise the NHS anyway.
Where is the evidence please ?
TTIP: Jeremy Corbyn, Nigel Farage, Nicola Sturgeon and Natalie Bennett sign appeal to exempt NHS from trade deal | UK Politics | News | The Independent
It's not just the NHS how do privately run prisons grab you.
UKIP by the way want to privatise the NHS anyway.
Where is the evidence please ?
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
Damning government report on TTIP
I'm always so suspicious of stuff that is kept behind closed doors - secretive. Stuff like this should always be up for severe investigation and questions like 'Why keep this a big secret ? Why hide it from Joe Bloggs and Cissie Smith ? What the heck are they frightened of if they allow the ordinary folk to see what they are planning ? Jeez, how corrupt ????
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
Damning government report on TTIP
G#Gill;1495275 wrote: Where is the evidence please ?
Ok I take that back slightly. Nigel farage has in the past talked about introducing and insurance backed scheme I see he has backtracked on that quite considerably. I don't trust the man so far as I can throw him. What beggars belief is that thanks to proportional representation ukip might get a seat in the scottish parliament.
Ok I take that back slightly. Nigel farage has in the past talked about introducing and insurance backed scheme I see he has backtracked on that quite considerably. I don't trust the man so far as I can throw him. What beggars belief is that thanks to proportional representation ukip might get a seat in the scottish parliament.
Damning government report on TTIP
gmc;1495295 wrote: Ok I take that back slightly. Nigel farage has in the past talked about introducing and insurance backed scheme I see he has backtracked on that quite considerably. I don't trust the man so far as I can throw him. What beggars belief is that thanks to proportional representation ukip might get a seat in the scottish parliament.
At least with Nigel Farage, he actually answers the questions he is asked and doesn't adopt the usual politicians' ploy of hedgeing around the question and not actually answering ! :rolleyes:
Thinking about it, is there, in fact gmc, any politician that anybody can trust in reality ? I firmly believe that most politicians have their own agendas, and they are looking after number one and making sure that 'I'm all right Jack'.
There are very few politicians that I give credence to. Possibly one is Dennis Skinner MP (Labour) for Bolsover, often kicked out of Westminster for his outspoken rants, and Tony Benn (Labour) unfortunately he died in 2014. He fought in the 60's to decline the hereditary peerage when his father Lord Stansgate died. He was not allowed to attend the House of Commons as a Peer, but he wanted to be an MP and he eventually managed to do so when the law was changed by the governing Conservatives, and he was able to be just a plain Mr.Anthony Wedgewood Benn. A man of integrity. He was well respected by all parties because of his unswerving stance over certain things. He was also the President of "Stop The War" (the Iraq war).
At least with Nigel Farage, he actually answers the questions he is asked and doesn't adopt the usual politicians' ploy of hedgeing around the question and not actually answering ! :rolleyes:
Thinking about it, is there, in fact gmc, any politician that anybody can trust in reality ? I firmly believe that most politicians have their own agendas, and they are looking after number one and making sure that 'I'm all right Jack'.
There are very few politicians that I give credence to. Possibly one is Dennis Skinner MP (Labour) for Bolsover, often kicked out of Westminster for his outspoken rants, and Tony Benn (Labour) unfortunately he died in 2014. He fought in the 60's to decline the hereditary peerage when his father Lord Stansgate died. He was not allowed to attend the House of Commons as a Peer, but he wanted to be an MP and he eventually managed to do so when the law was changed by the governing Conservatives, and he was able to be just a plain Mr.Anthony Wedgewood Benn. A man of integrity. He was well respected by all parties because of his unswerving stance over certain things. He was also the President of "Stop The War" (the Iraq war).
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
Damning government report on TTIP
G#Gill;1495300 wrote: Thinking about it, is there, in fact gmc, any politician that anybody can trust in reality ?
Corbyn ?
Corbyn ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Damning government report on TTIP
gmc;1495239 wrote: Not likely How much have you seen about this in the mainstream media? There are mass protests throughout europe butb you wouldn;t know that if you just read the dailay mail or watch the bbc.
TTIP: Jeremy Corbyn, Nigel Farage, Nicola Sturgeon and Natalie Bennett sign appeal to exempt NHS from trade deal | UK Politics | News | The Independent
It's not just the NHS how do privately run prisons grab you.
UKIP by the way want to privatise the NHS anyway.
Well the Independent has picked up on the fact that the leak could mark the end of TTIP
After the leaks showing just what it really stands for, this could be the end for TTIP | Voices | The Independent
Today’s shock leak of the text of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) marks the beginning of the end for the hated EU-US trade deal, and a key moment in the Brexit debate. The unelected negotiators have kept the talks going until now by means of a fanatical level of secrecy, with threats of criminal prosecution for anyone divulging the treaty’s contents.
Its been reported in the BBC too. No idea about the tabloids. I can't read them while I'm still wiping my feet on them.
TTIP: Jeremy Corbyn, Nigel Farage, Nicola Sturgeon and Natalie Bennett sign appeal to exempt NHS from trade deal | UK Politics | News | The Independent
It's not just the NHS how do privately run prisons grab you.
UKIP by the way want to privatise the NHS anyway.
Well the Independent has picked up on the fact that the leak could mark the end of TTIP
After the leaks showing just what it really stands for, this could be the end for TTIP | Voices | The Independent
Today’s shock leak of the text of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) marks the beginning of the end for the hated EU-US trade deal, and a key moment in the Brexit debate. The unelected negotiators have kept the talks going until now by means of a fanatical level of secrecy, with threats of criminal prosecution for anyone divulging the treaty’s contents.
Its been reported in the BBC too. No idea about the tabloids. I can't read them while I'm still wiping my feet on them.
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Damning government report on TTIP
Snowfire;1495312 wrote: Well the Independent has picked up on the fact that the leak could mark the end of TTIP
After the leaks showing just what it really stands for, this could be the end for TTIP | Voices | The Independent
Its been reported in the BBC too. No idea about the tabloids. I can't read them while I'm still wiping my feet on them.
Here is the Greenpeace site with the docs:
https://ttip-leaks.org/
Interesting
About we got a look at them
After the leaks showing just what it really stands for, this could be the end for TTIP | Voices | The Independent
Its been reported in the BBC too. No idea about the tabloids. I can't read them while I'm still wiping my feet on them.
Here is the Greenpeace site with the docs:
https://ttip-leaks.org/
Interesting
About we got a look at them
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Damning government report on TTIP
LarsMac;1495314 wrote: Here is the Greenpeace site with the docs:
https://ttip-leaks.org/
Interesting
About we got a look at them
There's a lot of that there lawyer speak. I think they're hoping you get bored before you start to understand it. It's like swimming through treacle
https://ttip-leaks.org/
Interesting
About we got a look at them
There's a lot of that there lawyer speak. I think they're hoping you get bored before you start to understand it. It's like swimming through treacle
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Damning government report on TTIP
I'm glad the document has been leaked. Maybe more people/countries will take the stance that France has taken, or probably will take of blocking the damn thing. Hopefully it is doomed.
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully