My wife seems to think that ignorant people are taking over the world. So how about you? Are there more intelligent or stupid people in the world?
I say this because Hitler got elected, as did Mussolini. Both of those countries boasted tech-savvy populations, steeped in religion, and with modern political systems.
Yet they both went to Hell. If it could happen before, could it happen again?
File this under, "Why Spot should care about American elections."
Trumping Reason
Trumping Reason
I suppose it depends on what you mean by "ignorant".
Destitute of knowledge, either in general or with respect to a particular fact or subject; unknowing, uninformed, unlearned?
Mein Kampf wasn't ghost-written, you know. If all you do is throw negative words at Hitler you'll never learn anything about recognizing the next one in good time. Hitler wasn't a bogeyman out of folk myth, he was a person.
Destitute of knowledge, either in general or with respect to a particular fact or subject; unknowing, uninformed, unlearned?
Mein Kampf wasn't ghost-written, you know. If all you do is throw negative words at Hitler you'll never learn anything about recognizing the next one in good time. Hitler wasn't a bogeyman out of folk myth, he was a person.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Trumping Reason
spot;1495369 wrote: I suppose it depends on what you mean by "ignorant".
Good point. I defined ignorance in two ways:
Uninformed ignorance - Having never been taught or to not have learned about situations, facts, and society. (Ex: Someone who has never met another culture and is culturally insensitive without meaning to be.)
Deliberate ignorance - Knowing the truth or correct way to act in a society and turning your back on it willfully.( Climate change deniers, Holocaust deniers, and most hate groups.)
Mein Kampf wasn't ghost-written, you know. If all you do is throw negative words at Hitler you'll never learn anything about recognizing the next one in good time. Hitler wasn't a bogeyman out of folk myth, he was a person.
Also important. I've read "Mein Kampf," studied the Third Reich and his rise to power in depth ("The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" is an excellent guide), and even dissected Hitler's speeches in regards to propaganda, glittering generalities and ultra-nationalism. I've also studied the conditions that gave rise to the possibility of his dictatorship. (Mostly the Treaty of Versailles) so I understand how the German people could go so wrong.
My problem is that America seems to have blundered into many of the same conditions lately.
Good point. I defined ignorance in two ways:
Uninformed ignorance - Having never been taught or to not have learned about situations, facts, and society. (Ex: Someone who has never met another culture and is culturally insensitive without meaning to be.)
Deliberate ignorance - Knowing the truth or correct way to act in a society and turning your back on it willfully.( Climate change deniers, Holocaust deniers, and most hate groups.)
Mein Kampf wasn't ghost-written, you know. If all you do is throw negative words at Hitler you'll never learn anything about recognizing the next one in good time. Hitler wasn't a bogeyman out of folk myth, he was a person.
Also important. I've read "Mein Kampf," studied the Third Reich and his rise to power in depth ("The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" is an excellent guide), and even dissected Hitler's speeches in regards to propaganda, glittering generalities and ultra-nationalism. I've also studied the conditions that gave rise to the possibility of his dictatorship. (Mostly the Treaty of Versailles) so I understand how the German people could go so wrong.
My problem is that America seems to have blundered into many of the same conditions lately.
Trumping Reason
I don't think Hitler even qualifies as "Knowing the truth or correct way to act in a society and turning your back on it willfully". I think he believed what he wrote.
He certainly took in a lot of his ideas from other writers who also believed what they wrote. They thought they were right. You and I think they were appallingly wrong because we can apply hindsight, having seen where those awful ideas led. I think you have to know post-1920 history to know how just corrosive and damaging pre-1920 bigotry and racism was.
Before 1920 someone in Hitler's position could call on an almost Europe-wide prejudice to support the hatred and the nationalist supremacy he believed was justified. By the time he died the consequence was obvious. I don't think the consequence was obvious before he wrote his book and offered his services to fix the completely wrecked German economy.
He certainly took in a lot of his ideas from other writers who also believed what they wrote. They thought they were right. You and I think they were appallingly wrong because we can apply hindsight, having seen where those awful ideas led. I think you have to know post-1920 history to know how just corrosive and damaging pre-1920 bigotry and racism was.
Before 1920 someone in Hitler's position could call on an almost Europe-wide prejudice to support the hatred and the nationalist supremacy he believed was justified. By the time he died the consequence was obvious. I don't think the consequence was obvious before he wrote his book and offered his services to fix the completely wrecked German economy.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Trumping Reason
Oh Hitler was ignorant. He was evil. The people who followed him were willfully ignorant. Much like StormTrumpers if you ask me...
Trumping Reason
Ted Cruz was not my first choice for the Republican nomination but as before could hold my nose and vote for the guy as I did during our caucus last March.
I cannot in good conscience vote for Trump. I like sleeping at night. Then I honestly considered voting for Hillary Clinton. That nanosecond caused me hours of PTSD.
Considered abstaining from the Presidential election but could not bear the thought Mrs.Dog's vote for Hillary would go unanswered. At first considered a write-in vote for Ted Cruz and thought better of it as may as well throw my write-in to Marco Rubio since it won't matter anyway.
Meanwhile, our leaders now promote the concept 'We're on the Trump train now'
I'm not going to board.
I cannot in good conscience vote for Trump. I like sleeping at night. Then I honestly considered voting for Hillary Clinton. That nanosecond caused me hours of PTSD.
Considered abstaining from the Presidential election but could not bear the thought Mrs.Dog's vote for Hillary would go unanswered. At first considered a write-in vote for Ted Cruz and thought better of it as may as well throw my write-in to Marco Rubio since it won't matter anyway.
Meanwhile, our leaders now promote the concept 'We're on the Trump train now'
I'm not going to board.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
Trumping Reason
Saint_;1495376 wrote: Also important. I've read "Mein Kampf," studied the Third Reich and his rise to power in depth ("The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" is an excellent guide), and even dissected Hitler's speeches in regards to propaganda, glittering generalities and ultra-nationalism. I've also studied the conditions that gave rise to the possibility of his dictatorship. (Mostly the Treaty of Versailles) so I understand how the German people could go so wrong.
Must confess the Hitler analogy has crossed my mind but it just reminds me of Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Nazi analogies. Use of Hitler is commonly a farfetched attempt to make an argument.
Once tried reading Mein Kamp but didn't get far. Glad I didn't pay for the book. As i learned it was a rambling which was worth reading if you were astute as Winston Churchill.
Of course, read William Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. A good read is a contemporary account in his Berlin Diary.
I really tire of hearing the Hitler analogy. I remember when the cable TV first presented the History Channel. Seemed to be all Hitler all the time to when me and a few friends would just call I the Hitler Channel.
Saint_;1495376 wrote: My problem is that America seems to have blundered into many of the same conditions lately.
That is funny as I look at Hillary and the Bern previewing a much different future.
Bolshevik Revolution
Not a lot differnt than Trump.
Must confess the Hitler analogy has crossed my mind but it just reminds me of Godwin's law (or Godwin's rule of Nazi analogies. Use of Hitler is commonly a farfetched attempt to make an argument.
Once tried reading Mein Kamp but didn't get far. Glad I didn't pay for the book. As i learned it was a rambling which was worth reading if you were astute as Winston Churchill.
Of course, read William Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. A good read is a contemporary account in his Berlin Diary.
I really tire of hearing the Hitler analogy. I remember when the cable TV first presented the History Channel. Seemed to be all Hitler all the time to when me and a few friends would just call I the Hitler Channel.
Saint_;1495376 wrote: My problem is that America seems to have blundered into many of the same conditions lately.
That is funny as I look at Hillary and the Bern previewing a much different future.
Bolshevik Revolution
Not a lot differnt than Trump.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
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AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6631
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
Trumping Reason
Ignorant people will not take over but are used by smart people. After all, if 100 is the average I.Q., think about it. 100 is not smart, whether we like it or not. Also, the schools do not teach critical thinking anymore, esp. in the lower grades.
Trumping Reason
Saint_;1495383 wrote: Oh Hitler was ignorant. He was evil. The people who followed him were willfully ignorant. Much like StormTrumpers if you ask me...
It's wrong to call him evil that just stops consideration of what really happened there's o such thing anyway. The catholic church supported mussolini and hitler right from the get go as did many industrialists including jewish ones because they offered a counter to the socialist and communists the establishment throughtout europe were terrified the people of a populist uprising. Even the UK had tanks and troops on british streets in the years after ww1.
I also think it wrong to call them willfully ignorant they were men of their times rather than willfully ignorant although I do think you have a point when it comes to ignoring the reality of climate change and seeing environmentalists as part of a left wing conspiracy to ruin the economy that seems to be a particularly american phenomenon.
The US had it's own left/right conflicts.
Who owns america now?
posted by saint
Also important. I've read "Mein Kampf," studied the Third Reich and his rise to power in depth ("The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" is an excellent guide), and even dissected Hitler's speeches in regards to propaganda, glittering generalities and ultra-nationalism. I've also studied the conditions that gave rise to the possibility of his dictatorship. (Mostly the Treaty of Versailles) so I understand how the German people could go so wrong.
Interestingly enough alan shirer wrote the rise and fall while blacklisted for his left wing views. I've always thought the mccarthy era was the american fascists having a go at their own jews and communists exceopt they couldn't claim openly to be after the jews. Hitlers rise to power was only obvious afterwards ans after 1933 it too late to stop him. hindsight is a wonderful thing. Wonder of Donald trump knows the history of the term America First and it's connotations.
How likely is trump to win the actual election do you think?
It's wrong to call him evil that just stops consideration of what really happened there's o such thing anyway. The catholic church supported mussolini and hitler right from the get go as did many industrialists including jewish ones because they offered a counter to the socialist and communists the establishment throughtout europe were terrified the people of a populist uprising. Even the UK had tanks and troops on british streets in the years after ww1.
I also think it wrong to call them willfully ignorant they were men of their times rather than willfully ignorant although I do think you have a point when it comes to ignoring the reality of climate change and seeing environmentalists as part of a left wing conspiracy to ruin the economy that seems to be a particularly american phenomenon.
The US had it's own left/right conflicts.
Who owns america now?
posted by saint
Also important. I've read "Mein Kampf," studied the Third Reich and his rise to power in depth ("The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" is an excellent guide), and even dissected Hitler's speeches in regards to propaganda, glittering generalities and ultra-nationalism. I've also studied the conditions that gave rise to the possibility of his dictatorship. (Mostly the Treaty of Versailles) so I understand how the German people could go so wrong.
Interestingly enough alan shirer wrote the rise and fall while blacklisted for his left wing views. I've always thought the mccarthy era was the american fascists having a go at their own jews and communists exceopt they couldn't claim openly to be after the jews. Hitlers rise to power was only obvious afterwards ans after 1933 it too late to stop him. hindsight is a wonderful thing. Wonder of Donald trump knows the history of the term America First and it's connotations.
How likely is trump to win the actual election do you think?