Brexit Poll!

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:24 pm

Let's have our own election!

Are you for or against Brexit?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:55 pm

Saint_;1497449 wrote: Let's have our own election!

Are you for or against Brexit?

I firmly believe that it would be madness to come out at this point.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:16 pm

I thought we had a poll already.

But for me it's remain.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Wed Jun 22, 2016 2:42 pm

Its been a painful process for me. I'm as far away from Farage as you could probably get. The last thing I am is a "Little Englander"

I'm not convinced that the EU can be reformed. Cameron left the last negotiation process with next to FA and many of the Remain's reasons to stay (plague and pestilence ) were also put to Norway and never came to fruition

There are many reasons why I could have gone either way. There are genuine reasons for both.

I will be voting to Leave. even though I'm joined by the less savoury elements of our society, who are voting Out, for less savoury reasons.

Oh !.......Tony Benn would have voted to leave and always knew what he was talking about

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:05 am

posted by snowfire

I'm not convinced that the EU can be reformed. Cameron left the last negotiation process with next to FA and many of the Remain's reasons to stay (plague and pestilence ) were also put to Norway and never came to fruition

Leaving is really going to help with that isn't it. Norway has to pay in to the eu put up with the same regfulations and has no say in what happens.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:25 am

Snowfire;1497463 wrote: Its been a painful process for me. I'm as far away from Farage as you could probably get. The last thing I am is a "Little Englander"

I'm not convinced that the EU can be reformed. Cameron left the last negotiation process with next to FA and many of the Remain's reasons to stay (plague and pestilence ) were also put to Norway and never came to fruition

There are many reasons why I could have gone either way. There are genuine reasons for both.

I will be voting to Leave. even though I'm joined by the less savoury elements of our society, who are voting Out, for less savoury reasons.

Oh !.......Tony Benn would have voted to leave and always knew what he was talking about

The insult applied to Civil Service bureaucrats, before the EU was an issue, was "Mandarin". You'll recall Yes Minister and the derisive laughter that invariably went with the suggestion that Government money might be spent beyond London. In Cornwall, London is still the ultimate dirty word. Round here a project fails or succeeds depending on access either to the lottery or to an EU financial initiative, the Civil Service still laughs at the notion of spending in the provinces.

I'm pleased you found persuasive arguments though, and I'd hate to see FG of one mind on any topic. I agree sovereignty is diluted by membership, I just happen to think that's a damn good idea seeing the way this country habitually behaves when left to make its own decisions. Given the choice of scrapping government from Brussels or from Westminster I'd not think twice.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:33 am

And I thought you were one of the good guys Snowfire.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 5:52 am

Bruv;1497495 wrote: And I thought you were one of the good guys Snowfire.

No I eat babies and like to kick old ladies

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:47 am

I am disconnected from reality, so I voted for exit. I grew up on movies like "The Four Feathers," "Captain Horatio Hornblower," and even "To Sir with Love." But most especially, every "Sherlock Holmes" story known to mankind. So I have a rose-colored love for the England of old. I liked the scrappy, independent spirit of the Empire upon which "the sun never sets." The Brittania that "ruled the waves."

Yeah, I know that probably has no more to do with modern England than Davy Crockett or the Wild West has to do with modern America, but there it is. Jolly good, eh what?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:05 am

Saint_;1497501 wrote: I am disconnected from reality, so I voted for exit. I grew up on movies like "The Four Feathers," "Captain Horatio Hornblower," and even "To Sir with Love." But most especially, every "Sherlock Holmes" story know to mankind. So I have a rose-colored love for the England of old. I liked the scrappy, independent spirit of the Empire upon which "the sun never sets." The Brittania the "ruled the waves."

Yeah, I know that probably has no more to do with modern England than Davy Crockett or the Wild West has to do with modern America, but there it is. Jolly good, eh what?

How are you voting at all ?

The British essence remains the same as way back then, with a degree of self deprecating humour thrown in.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:05 am

Snowfire;1497500 wrote: No I eat babies and like to kick old ladies

Not ALL bad then ?

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:09 am

Bruv;1497509 wrote: How are you voting at all ?

It's easy. It's a poll in Forumgarden and I am a member of Forumgarden!

The British essence remains the same as way back then, with a degree of self deprecating humour thrown in.

British humor is the best in the world. (See: Monte Python)

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:17 am

Bruv;1497510 wrote: Not ALL bad then ?

I'm assuming that since you couldn't decide one way or the other for a while, you must have, even for a moment, thought of voting out. I'm glad that something bought you back from the brink. Sadly, as painful as it was, that something wasn't as convincing to me as it presumably was to you. Both sides had their hideous characters with their hideous hyperbole and down right scary lies.

I think people have to be extremely arrogant to think they know all the answers to all of the questions and then sit back, wafting their opinions like they are two a penny and the rest of us can't think for ourselves.

I'm waiting for the "told you so" from those who always know it all....unless of course, we dont succumb to the plague and pestilence

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:22 am

Bruv;1497509 wrote:

The British essence remains the same as way back then, with a degree of self deprecating humour thrown in.

I happen to think this is one of our most endearing traits. We can at least join in the mocking from others and probably make a better job of it

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:27 am

Just out of curiousity, what do all of your Englanders think is the biggest reason for the "Brexit" movement? Something must have set it off.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:27 am

Both sides used over the top arguments, both threw in patriotism and such to pull us their way.

A lot of it was half truths that needed to be looked deeper into, such as the 350 million nonsense.

I could have tossed a coin to be honest. The argument that won me over was, that to remain is less dangerous.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:31 am

check out this real-time graph. You can click on different demographics to see who's voting what. More importantly, it looks dead even right now at 44% / 44%!

Britain’s EU referendum: The Economist’s “Brexit poll-tracker | The Economist

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:32 am

Saint_;1497515 wrote: Just out of curiousity, what do all of your Englanders think is the biggest reason for the "Brexit" movement? Something must have set it off.

The experts will be along in a minute but......the EU is in trouble, it has gone a lot further than we thought back in 1975. It was a common market, now it is a on it's way to be a confederation of countries.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:49 am

Saint_;1497515 wrote: Just out of curiousity, what do all of your Englanders think is the biggest reason for the "Brexit" movement? Something must have set it off.

The cause is a power struggle in the right-wing Conservative party which has run for thirty years between the in and the out factions. The referendum was triggered by the Conservative Party guaranteeing to hold a referendum as a sweetener before the last general election, in order to gather back as many Leave voters who would otherwise have voted for the rebel camp and thereby kept the Conservative Party from regaining control of the House of Commons. It was a short-term benefit at the price of a shocking long-term risk.

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:53 am

TTIP hasnt gone away.

TTIP: European Commission attempts to resurrect deal as countries go cold on plan | Europe | News | The Independent

The European Commission is attempting to rebuild support for its controversial TTIP trade deal with America – amid concern countries across the continent are going cold on the plan.

Great if your a big fat Corporation looking to sue governments if your profits don't meet expectations

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:17 pm

Each time TTIP comes up in the European Parliament, all the UK MEPs get stacks of emails from 38 Degrees activists expressing concern that they should take a stand against it.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:47 am

If it were all just because of Right Wing Tories, it wouldn't have got a majority vote across the electorate. After all, the Tories (all across the Left Wing to the Right Wing side of the Tories) were voted into power on less than 30% of the vote. That would make the balance of Right Wing Tories only about 10%, yet the Referendum came up with 52% in favour of Leave. This clearly included Left Wing as well as Right.

Even with the results all being in, there are still a number of "What ifs". Such as "What if Cameron had succeeded on negotiating an exemption from Open Door policy?", or "What if there had been a more balanced representation in Parliament of the people's views - would the majority be bigger?".

There are so many reasons for the UK wanting to get out, and uncontrolled immigration was obviously going to play a leading role in the argument.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:52 am

Holy smokes. You guys really went and did it. I can't believe it. I used to read posts here on this board about UKIP and I thought they were just some extreme fringe group like our Tea Party. Scotland voted one way and England the other. So there goes the neighborhood. Commentators last night said that while London wanted to stay, the entire countryside wanted to leave, which says a bit about who has actually benefitted from the union and who hasn't.

Well, I agree with our well-spoken President when he says, "the U.S. respects the decision of U.K. voters to leave the European Union, and the special relationship between the countries will endure."

Meanwhile, the entire world has gone pure, hair-on-fire, batsh*t crazy....

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:02 am

It wasn't a landslide, Saint_, although a clear majority. Also it points out the very small population of the UK as compared to the US.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:04 am

AnneBoleyn;1497597 wrote: It wasn't a landslide, Saint_, although a clear majority. Also it points out the very small population of the UK as compared to the US.

Yeah, and that's pretty much the worst dase scenario because it means that slightly less than half the population is unhappy about the outcome which is the worst statistical case.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:17 am

AnneBoleyn;1497597 wrote: It wasn't a landslide, Saint_, although a clear majority. Also it points out the very small population of the UK as compared to the US.

Oh, and Anne? You can call me just "Saint." You don't need the underscore...we're friends.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:36 am

The thing is that if the EU hadn't have been so inflexible with the negotiations Cameron supposedly offered - particularly regarding the matter of Border Control - the result could have been so different. Now, they have called our bluff - and lost.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:41 am

Saint_;1497595 wrote: Holy smokes. You guys really went and did it. I can't believe it. I used to read posts here on this board about UKIP and I thought they were just some extreme fringe group like our Tea Party. Scotland voted one way and England the other. So there goes the neighborhood. Commentators last night said that while London wanted to stay, the entire countryside wanted to leave, which says a bit about who has actually benefitted from the union and who hasn't.

Well, I agree with our well-spoken President when he says, "the U.S. respects the decision of U.K. voters to leave the European Union, and the special relationship between the countries will endure."

Meanwhile, the entire world has gone pure, hair-on-fire, batsh*t crazy....

I want to know who of my friends and acquaintances are liars. I don't recall anyone telling me they were voting for Brexit.......some of them must have done.

London's result is possibly because a lot of them are migrants, it is very multicultural, some areas are like downtown Beijing, Kingston,Warsaw,Katmandu......and Islamabad.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:42 am

FourPart;1497608 wrote: Now, they have called our bluff - and lost.

Right.....it's them that has lost........silly buggers.They will learn.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:09 pm

Saint_;1497601 wrote: Oh, and Anne? You can call me just "Saint." You don't need the underscore...we're friends.

I'm gonna call you Saint:yh_love

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:43 pm

Don't forget, it may be stating the obvious, but non-UK Nationals didn't get to vote, no matter how long they may have been living & working here as EU Citizens.