Tory manifesto

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu May 18, 2017 11:39 am

Just wondering. Anyone out there going to vote for them?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu May 18, 2017 12:09 pm

I am voting against them, but I also feel a sense of doom.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu May 18, 2017 2:56 pm

Voting against, have never voted Tory in my life and can't imagine doing so ever.

I've never meet a Tory in the street either, who are all these Tory voters :-2

Post by **LarsMac** » Thu May 18, 2017 6:52 pm

So, what, exactly, is a Tory.

Here in the States, Tory was the name given the colonists who were loyal to the King after the Declaration of Independence. A lot of them left with Cornwallis and his cronies.

I'm assuming they are the "Conservatives". Kind of like our Republicans.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri May 19, 2017 5:40 am

LarsMac;1509298 wrote: I'm assuming they are the "Conservatives". Kind of like our Republicans.

Yes it is the Conservatives, THIS might help, or Spot will give you a full run down into the history of it all.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri May 19, 2017 5:42 am

Betty Boop;1509291 wrote: Voting against, have never voted Tory in my life and can't imagine doing so ever.

I've never meet a Tory in the street either, who are all these Tory voters :-2

Bit like Brexit, I never meet any until after the vote, there are a lot of closet voters it seems.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri May 19, 2017 8:27 am

What annoys me is how someone once so against leaving the eu lacks the moral integrity to stand uo and say I won't lead the party when it is hell bent on destroying the country like this.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Fri May 19, 2017 8:59 am

Bruv;1509303 wrote: Bit like Brexit, I never meet any until after the vote, there are a lot of closet voters it seems.

Oh, I met a lot of exiters and the majority were farmers!! Was a bit puzzled that they'd vote to loose the EU subsidies that had kept them from sinking for years

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun May 21, 2017 2:10 am

Not to worry nigel says it's all for the best.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun May 21, 2017 3:36 am

Given that I live in a constituency that's as blue rinsed as they come my opinion is going to make no difference whatsoever

(Blue = Conservative = right wing, red = Labour = centre, orange = Liberal Democrats = centre right, Purple = UKIP = nationalist right, Green = Green = environmentalist

Then there's BNP = far right and the various national parties such as the Scottish National Party and Plaid Cymru)

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun May 21, 2017 4:12 am

You see the current Labour party as Centre ?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun May 21, 2017 4:19 am

Bruv;1509384 wrote: You see the current Labour party as Centre ?

It sure ain't left wing.

OK, it's moved from where the Tories were before New Labour lurched to the right back to the centre but it's still far to the right of the Labour of the 70's

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun May 21, 2017 4:29 am

Bryn Mawr;1509385 wrote: It sure ain't left wing.

OK, it's moved from where the Tories were before New Labour lurched to the right back to the centre but it's still far to the right of the Labour of the 70's

It is as far left as is electable these days.

And a lot further left than any Labour party in my lifetime, apart from a brief Michael Foot flirtation maybe.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun May 21, 2017 4:33 am

Bruv;1509388 wrote: It is as far left as is electable these days.

And a lot further left than any Labour party in my lifetime, apart from a brief Michael Foot flirtation maybe.

The leader maybe but he has got to carry the rest of the PLP with him and they're still centre at best.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun May 21, 2017 6:27 am

Apparently Labour is surging in the polls, up into the low 30s. Unfortunately still a long way still behind the tories in the mid 40s.

The socialist economic model seems completely discredited in this country. Honestly I think it might be the best model for the UK (or whatever is left of it after brexit settles) to renationalise all strategic resources: transport, water, power and agriculture and run them not for profit. Keep the NHS, too - it's on its last legs now, brexit will be the death blow as things look at present. But we are looking at a high tax society, and most people won't vote for it.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun May 21, 2017 9:00 am

Bryn Mawr;1509390 wrote: The leader maybe but he has got to carry the rest of the PLP with him and they're still centre at best.

As long as the party members are behind him, and if he can win the election against the odds, he will hopefully carry the PLP with him.

Clodhopper;1509396 wrote: Apparently Labour is surging in the polls, up into the low 30s..

I am pinning my hopes on a surge of young voters registering and yet another election surprise against the predictions.....it can happen again can't it ?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun May 21, 2017 9:07 am

Bruv;1509397 wrote: As long as the party members are behind him, and if he can win the election against the odds, he will hopefully carry the PLP with him.

I am pinning my hopes on a surge of young voters registering and yet another election surprise against the predictions.....it can happen again can't it ?

he hasn't so far, they've fought him tooth and nail since he won the leadership election.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun May 21, 2017 9:12 am

It might change if he can win them an election..................I can dream, can't I ?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun May 21, 2017 10:53 am

Bruv;1509400 wrote: It might change if he can win them an election..................I can dream, can't I ?

I might be cynical but loose the election and leave the poison chalice of Brexit to the Tories, use the failure to win as a lever to force Corbyn out and set up shop for next time?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sun May 21, 2017 2:22 pm

Bryn Mawr;1509401 wrote: I might be cynical but loose the election and leave the poison chalice of Brexit to the Tories, use the failure to win as a lever to force Corbyn out and set up shop for next time?

Yes.....you are cynical.

Corbyns on record as saying if Labour lose this time, he is going nowhere due to the grass roots membership backing him.

I seriously think he might just win.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun May 21, 2017 2:39 pm

The SNP are the third largest party in terms of number of seats in the westminster parliament.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/09/14/wh ... -politics/

Raw seat numbers make the SNP a powerful contender – with 54 MPs they are by far the largest of the parties listed in the Commons. They are also the party most likely to be considered by people to be a “main British party, with 36% (71% in Scotland).

[QUOTE]Raw seat numbers make the SNP a powerful contender – with 54 MPs they are by far the largest of the parties listed in the Commons. They are also the party most likely to be considered by people to be a “main British party, with 36% (71% in Scotland).

Their potential is limited by the fact that they are a regional party – and that their region may not be a part of the UK for much longer. Whilst we didn’t survey to what extent people would consider voting SNP, we can calculate from the size of the Scottish electorate compared to the UK electorate as a whole that the maximum vote potential for the SNP is about 8.7%.

What they actually do and say is vastluy different from what is reported in the mainstream media. For instance nicola sturgeon is NOT calling for a referendum now making theresa mays now is not the time for a second scottish referendum rather redundant. They also gained stas and councils in the recent local elections - the one that was portrayed as a win for the tories. The snp winning the number of seats they got last time surprised everybody including the snp themselves coming as it did after the no vote but the option of having a second referendum if there was a material change in circumstances was in their manifesto unlike theresa may they have a mandate to rule. Labour have commited electoral suicide in scotlanmd and still haven't worked out what went wrong.

Posted by clodhopper

The socialist economic model seems completely discredited in this country. Honestly I think it might be the best model for the UK (or whatever is left of it after brexit settles) to renationalise all strategic resources: transport, water, power and agriculture and run them not for profit. Keep the NHS, too - it's on its last legs now, brexit will be the death blow as things look at present. But we are looking at a high tax society, and most people won't vote for it.

I wouldnl't say that every election more than two thirds of the voters vote against the tories and their policies it's only our warped electoral system that gets them elected.

I don't understand why labour have not backed a second referendum once the details of the deal are known, that woul;d have got 48 million votes for a kick off plus all those who voted to leave as a way of protesting the status quo and are beginni9ong to grasp the consequences.

posted by bruv

As long as the party members are behind him, and if he can win the election against the odds, he will hopefully carry the PLP with him.

i don;t think they grasp how toxic a brand new labour is and how the tony blair effect lingfers on. You can trace the decline in the labour party from his a gordon browns time in office.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Wed May 24, 2017 2:53 am

My understanding of the leftist brexit position is pretty vague. My suspicion is that Corbyn and his lot are basically brexit because they would find it hard to implement their economic model while constrained by EU budget rules. I actually think Corbyn did more harm to the Remain cause by his lacklustre campaigning than if he'd been openly and enthusiastically brexit. My impression is that he was there because he had to be as leader of a party that was generally Remain.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed May 24, 2017 2:57 am

Clodhopper;1509485 wrote: My understanding of the leftist brexit position is pretty vague. My suspicion is that Corbyn and his lot are basically brexit because they would find it hard to implement their economic model while constrained by EU budget rules. I actually think Corbyn did more harm to the Remain cause by his lacklustre campaigning than if he'd been openly and enthusiastically brexit. My impression is that he was there because he had to be as leader of a party that was generally Remain.

They're going to find it even harder after brexit especially if we just walk away from the single market.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Wed May 24, 2017 3:18 am

Yep.

Bit of speculation: We know that May was mildly Remain. She claims that she needs a large majority to negotiate from a strong position. That seems a bit odd at first sight because the EU won't care if her majority is 1 or 1,000. However, if she gets a majority of say, 200, her government can ignore the brexit diehards in Parliament and by having the leading brexiters as the leaders of the exit process the finger is clearly pointed at them if they fail to deliver (despite attempts to blame Remainers and the BBC). Is she setting up to negotiate the softest possible brexit when the leading brexit bigmouths have failed to deliver on their promises?

Let's not forget: We are due £350 million a week for the NHS and the exit negotiations will be easy. Johnson and Davis have told us so.