How To Get To Heaven When You Die

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Fri May 26, 2017 7:00 am

Ted;1509408 wrote: Many scholars would disagree with Lars on that. Jesus or Yeshua was indeed a very common name and that is why the individual was designated by his town of origin Such as Mary of Magdela or Jesus of Nazareth. At any rate it is not an important issue.

I agree. The individual was designated by their town of origin.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Fri May 26, 2017 9:08 am

Ahso!;1509213 wrote: Well then the person you're alluding to is not the person depicted in the Christian bible, he's a different person altogether.

There were a few Jesus' as well as others by different names walking the roads of Galilee and Judea around the alleged timeframe. Which one are you intent on focusing on?

I think he is focusing on the one who was prophecied throughout the Old Testiment to come hundreds of years before His birth. The one who performed miracles to prove who He is and the one who died and rose again for our sins. The one who ascended up into heaven in front of hundreds of people and the one who is returning again very soon physically to this earth to rule and reign for eternity.

Fisher Amen · Post by **Fisher Amen** » Fri May 26, 2017 7:02 pm

xfrodobagginsx;1509538 wrote: No. These writings are real historical writings. Check them out.

Early Secular Writings Regarding Christ

Those writings are really compelling evidence. Thank you for sharing.

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Fri May 26, 2017 10:36 pm

During the time that sphericity of the earth was still undecided, a question arose that was considered of great importance, namely, the conception of the antipodes and the problem of deciding whether human beings existed on the earth's opposite side. It was Lactantius who asked, 'Is there anyone so senseless as to believe that there are men whose footsteps are higher than their heads? That the crops and trees grow downward? That the rains and snow and hail fall upwards toward the earth? I am at a loss as to what to say of those, who, when they have once erred, steadily persevere in their folly, and defend one vain thing by another.'

St. Augustine insisted that men could not be allowed by the almighty to live there, since, if they did, they could not see Christ at his second coming, descending through the air.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Sat May 27, 2017 8:36 am

Fuzzy;1509673 wrote: During the time that sphericity of the earth was still undecided, a question arose that was considered of great importance, namely, the conception of the antipodes and the problem of deciding whether human beings existed on the earth's opposite side. It was Lactantius who asked, 'Is there anyone so senseless as to believe that there are men whose footsteps are higher than their heads? That the crops and trees grow downward? That the rains and snow and hail fall upwards toward the earth? I am at a loss as to what to say of those, who, when they have once erred, steadily persevere in their folly, and defend one vain thing by another.'

St. Augustine insisted that men could not be allowed by the almighty to live there, since, if they did, they could not see Christ at his second coming, descending through the air.

First of all, I am not a Catholic. I don't follow St. Augustine, I follow Christ. The authority comes from the Bible, not men. The Bible clearly says that the earth is round and hangs on nothing in outer space, written 3,500 years ago. It also talks about the "empty place" in the sky, seemingly void of stars, which scientists have recently discovered with the help of modern technology.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat May 27, 2017 11:44 am

If one does not read the Bible as ancient midrash one cannot interpret it as was intended. As far as the earth in space is concerned Genesis clearly talks about a three tiered universe which means the earth is between the heavens above and the sheol belowd. like it was sitting on a table with the heaven above and sheol beneath. Some get very creative in their interpretation even having God write the book.

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Sat May 27, 2017 6:36 pm

I refuse to prove that I exist, says god, for proof denies faith and without faith I'm nothing.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Sun May 28, 2017 7:51 am

Ted;1509679 wrote: If one does not read the Bible as ancient midrash one cannot interpret it as was intended. As far as the earth in space is concerned Genesis clearly talks about a three tiered universe which means the earth is between the heavens above and the sheol belowd. like it was sitting on a table with the heaven above and sheol beneath. Some get very creative in their interpretation even having God write the book.

That's not the verse I am referring to. I am talking about Isaiah which states that the earth is round:

Isa 40:22 It is He who sits on the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in;

And Job which states that the earth hangs "On nothing" in outer space:

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

The "Empty Place" discovered:

Huge Hole Found in the Universe

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Sun May 28, 2017 9:24 pm

Fuzzy;1509695 wrote: I refuse to prove that I exist, says god, for proof denies faith and without faith I'm nothing.

Ps 19:1 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the expanse proclaims His handiwork.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon May 29, 2017 12:26 pm

Genesis is very clear. You used the word circle but that is not a sphere.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon May 29, 2017 12:43 pm

I think it was gmc elsewheere pointed out that we do not know what happens after death. I accept that. I will try to do what I can do to make the world a better place before I die. The Christian hope and that of others is a life beyond death. It is a hope in the trus ssense of the word.. To me the essence of Christianity is that it is to be a way of life like Judaism and not a set of "Right" beliefs. Then we are faced with some 22000 variation on the Christian life.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Mon May 29, 2017 4:11 pm

Ted;1509724 wrote: Genesis is very clear. You used the word circle but that is not a sphere.

Circle is round. Earth is round. Ever heard the term "Circle the earth"?

Also this article says that the word there may have been better translated "sphere"

Isaiah 40-22 circle sphere - creation.com

What about the verse that says that the earth hangs "upon nothing" what is your explanation for that?

Or the "empty place" in the north?

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Tue May 30, 2017 6:14 am

Ted;1509730 wrote: I think it was gmc elsewheere pointed out that we do not know what happens after death. I accept that. I will try to do what I can do to make the world a better place before I die. The Christian hope and that of others is a life beyond death. It is a hope in the trus ssense of the word.. To me the essence of Christianity is that it is to be a way of life like Judaism and not a set of "Right" beliefs. Then we are faced with some 22000 variation on the Christian life.

Gmc? Jesus Christ came from the realm of where we go after death (and He created it). I accept what He says. Making the world a better place won't get you to heaven. If it could, then Jesus wouldn't have had to die on the cross and rise from the dead.

Jesus is the one who said Joh 3:18 "He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who practices truth comes to the Light so that his deeds may be made known, that they have been worked in God."

It really is about what you believe in your heart.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue May 30, 2017 10:00 am

xfrod my view of the Bible is very different from yours.It is a very human book written by men, albe it inspired but so were Keats, Browning, Shelly and a whole host of others. 80% of the words attributed to Jesus are words put into his mouth by the evvangelists.if not more. The Bible is a Jeewish book written for Jews and must be interpreted as such. It is not a history book thoughj it contains some history. It is primarily a religious book. I agree with Hans Kung that the Bible is not in and of itself the "Word of God". It becomes for Christians "The Word of God" by virtue of the fact that God sems to speak to Christians through some of those human words. I have to agree with Bishop Spong that literalism is a Gentile Heresy. "The Word of God" in my view rightly belongs to only one and that is the risen one and not a book. In the Gospel of John we see that God will do new things as time goes on and we have to be ready to accept them. The Bible is mostly midrash and not history.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Wed May 31, 2017 2:24 pm

Ted;1509768 wrote: xfrod my view of the Bible is very different from yours.It is a very human book written by men, albe it inspired but so were Keats, Browning, Shelly and a whole host of others. 80% of the words attributed to Jesus are words put into his mouth by the evvangelists.if not more. The Bible is a Jeewish book written for Jews and must be interpreted as such. It is not a history book thoughj it contains some history. It is primarily a religious book. I agree with Hans Kung that the Bible is not in and of itself the "Word of God". It becomes for Christians "The Word of God" by virtue of the fact that God sems to speak to Christians through some of those human words. I have to agree with Bishop Spong that literalism is a Gentile Heresy. "The Word of God" in my view rightly belongs to only one and that is the risen one and not a book. In the Gospel of John we see that God will do new things as time goes on and we have to be ready to accept them. The Bible is mostly midrash and not history.

How do you explain how it all fits together as 1 book even though it was written over a 1600 year period, by men in different parts of the world, many of which did not have access to each other's writings and the hundreds of prophecies that came true already? You have no evidence that the words of Jesus were merely put into His mouth. The eyewitnesses wrote the Bible. Not all of the Bible was written to the Jews. Paul's writings were to the gentiles. I agree that it is not meant to be a history book in a worldly sense, but it IS history of God dealing with man. To not believe God's word literally and to try and interpret it as you wish is the real heresy rather than what is actually meant. The Bible is truth and inspired by God Himself.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed May 31, 2017 3:13 pm

xfrodl. None of the gospels was written by eye witnesses. Prophesy fulfilled. Not realy. After the experience of the very human Jesus of Nazareth some decided he was the messiah so they went looking in the OT to find things to fit sit hime. For instance the OT said he would be born in Bethlehem so that is how it was written. He was born in Nazareth. BFut since the messiah had to come from Bethlehem that is how it was written. The ancient writeers were Jews and they had a very specific way of writing called "midras" To try to interfpret the Bible without that knowledge leads to all kinds of absurdities. Prophets were basically talking of their own time not some distant time in the future.. So we must try to read the Bible from a Jewish perespective. The Christmas story is midrash as is the Crucifixion story. They have much to teach but no history. Another big problem is translation. "A virgin shall conceive" should have read a young maiden. . . "

it has absolultely nothing to do with sex. or being a virgin. Midrash is a style of writing making great use of metaphor and references to past events. When Joshua is supposed to have crossed the Jordon on dry land it was written that way to connect it with the Red sea myth. It was to show how important the story was. There is not one shred of evidence for the exodus as written in the Bible. Reading a book without understanding its background is indeed a heresy. It was never intended to be read that way.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed May 31, 2017 3:16 pm

IfThe writiers nev er intended it to be read literally. They were far from stupid people. They knew the sun could not stop in its tracks for a day. To read the Bible without understanding midrash is indeed heretical. Just as Augustines original sin is a curse foisted on Christianity.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:35 pm

Ted;1509806 wrote: xfrodl. None of the gospels was written by eye witnesses.

Completely false. It was a requirement to be included in the Biblical canon that it was written by an eyewitness and an apostle or someone close to them.

Prophesy fulfilled. Not realy.

False. Hundreds of prophecies fulfilled. I can give you a list of them.

After the experience of the very human Jesus of Nazareth some decided he was the messiah so they went looking in the OT to find things to fit sit hime.

That's interesting. They must have decided that before He was born because Herod tried to have Him killed based on the OT prophecies, they knew He was coming.

For instance the OT said he would be born in Bethlehem so that is how it was written.

He was born in Bethlehem, raised in Nazareth after an angel revealed to His father Joseph that Herod was dead.

He was born in Nazareth. BFut since the messiah had to come from Bethlehem that is how it was written.

So, they are all eyewitnesses who were actually there and they are all lying and you know better because they were there and you weren't?

The ancient writeers were Jews and they had a very specific way of writing called "midras" To try to interfpret the Bible without that knowledge leads to all kinds of absurdities. Prophets were basically talking of their own time not some distant time in the future..

The OT was written hundreds of years before His birth.

So we must try to read the Bible from a Jewish perespective. The Christmas story is midrash as is the Crucifixion story. They have much to teach but no history. Another big problem is translation. "A virgin shall conceive" should have read a young maiden. . . "

Not true. Just because the word young woman is a way of using that word doesn't mean that it meant young woman. Virgin is also a valid usage of the word. The word there is: hmle `almah, al-maw'

feminine of 5958; a lass (as veiled or private):--damsel, maid, virgin.

It's also affirmed in the Gospels. The Holy Spirit came upon Mary and she Conceived.

it has absolultely nothing to do with sex. or being a virgin. Midrash is a style of writing making great use of metaphor and references to past events.

It's not a metaphore. When it is a metaphore, it will tell you that it is one and explain it.

When Joshua is supposed to have crossed the Jordon on dry land it was written that way to connect it with the Red sea myth.

Not a myth.

It was to show how important the story was. There is not one shred of evidence for the exodus as written in the Bible.

False. Hundreds of chariot wheels found in the red sea. Straw found in bricks in egypt.

Reading a book without understanding its background is indeed a heresy. It was never intended to be read that way.

Then stop being a heratic.

THIS VIDEO WILL EXPLAIN HOW THE NEW TESTAMENT OF THE BIBLE WAS CANONIZED (CAME TO BE) PART 1 AUTOMATICALLY MERGES INTO PART 2

WHOLE VIDEO:

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:40 pm

metaphor is metaphor and it is not always announced. Did the sun really stand still for 24? The human race would have perished. xfrod I do not read the Bible literally in general. The Christmas story and the Passion story are both midrash.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:51 pm

Almnost all acholars have understood that the writers of the gospels were not the name appended to them. They were not eyewitnesses. The so called 5 books of Moses were not written by Moses as he was acharacter invented out of the activities of many men. It is not likely that a single Moses existed. No proof for Abraham either. As far as the wheels

in the red sea that is nonsense. Even some Christians like to invent stories.. There is no physical evidence that the exodus as written never occurred. It is a midrash. A literal reading of the Bible bbrings up many absurditie As far as why Jesus came we know how babies come about and they knew that too.s..

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:53 pm

Ted;1509822 wrote: metaphor is metaphor and it is not always announced. Did the sun really stand still for 24? The human race would have perished. xfrod I do not read the Bible literally in general. The Christmas story and the Passion story are both midrash.

Yes the sun really stood still. Did God really create the world and everything in it in 6 days? Yes He did. God is capable to doing anything He wants. Jesus took it literally. You should too. It's all God's word and true. Those who were actually there, know more than you do.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:55 pm

xfrod with all due respect that is pure nonssence. But you want to believve that then I have some swampland for sale in Florida. You could build a condo on it.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:58 pm

Ted;1509823 wrote: Almnost all acholars have understood that the writers of the gospels were not the name appended to them.

Although sometimes penned by scribes, it was dictated by the eyewitnesses.

They were not eyewitnesses.

False.

The so called 5 books of Moses were not written by Moses as he was acharacter invented out of the activities of many men.

False. If that were true, the Jews would have known it was a fraud and not followed the law. Moses is a real person.

It is not likely that a single Moses existed.

Man you are really misinformed.

No proof for Abraham either. As far as the wheels

in the red sea that is nonsense.

No it's true. Chariots in Red Sea: ‘Irrefutable evidence’

Even some Christians like to invent stories..

I just proved you wrong in the link above.

There is no physical evidence that the exodus as written never occurred.

Not true.

It is a midrash. A literal reading of the Bible bbrings up many absurditie As far as why Jesus came we know how babies come about and they knew that too.s..

You are hung up on what some liberal teacher lied to you about. It's only absurd to non Christians who don't believe it.

Would you like to see the prophecies that came true now that I have debunked everything else you have claimed?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:42 pm

xfrod you have fallen for the old line of the literalists. It is the same game they played when I was raised in a fundy church. I do not have to hang my brain in the entrance of the church. You have proven nothing accept you chose not to use the intelligance you were given.. It's like living in the dark ages;. That is the resuilt of the fear of the unknown futre in a very insecure world. It seems to me that some need the Bible to be like a contract signed sealed and delivered. Is someone going to take God to court if it isn't quite the way it seemed to have been promised. If that is what you want to believe then go for it but I do not.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:53 pm

Ted;1509857 wrote: xfrod you have fallen for the old line of the literalists. It is the same game they played when I was raised in a fundy church. I do not have to hang my brain in the entrance of the church. You have proven nothing accept you chose not to use the intelligance you were given.. It's like living in the dark ages;. That is the resuilt of the fear of the unknown futre in a very insecure world. It seems to me that some need the Bible to be like a contract signed sealed and delivered. Is someone going to take God to court if it isn't quite the way it seemed to have been promised. If that is what you want to believe then go for it but I do not.

No, I just know the facts. You are being deceived. You must not have learned much in that fundy Church. I am glad I don't hang my brain in the Liberal camp, where they think that they can just make up any belief they want, contrary to the evidence and contrary to what the Bible actually says. The Bible IS God's word, signed, sealed and delivered. You have been debunked and you have no response to the actual evidence because you are so blinded by the relative thinking scam. It's sad that you can't see reality in front of your face. You forgot to ask for a few of the prophecies of Christ predicted in the OT, fulfilled in the NT. Here are some:

The bible was written through 40 men in 3 languages over a 1,500 year period. These men lived in different parts of the world, some were rich, some were poor, some were educated, some were not, most didn't know each other, many of them didnâ€™t have access to the other's writings and yet it fits together as if it were written by one person, because it was inspired by God. It has no true errors or contradictions. There are countless prophecies which have been predicted and fulfilled perfectly in scripture. Many of these prophecies were written hundreds or even thousands of years before they were fulfilled.

The Predictions that Jesus fulfilled in His coming were in the hundreds. The verse on the left is the prediction written hundreds of years before He came and the verse on the right is where it was fulfilled in Jesus Christâ€™s actual coming hundreds of years later as testified by the actual eyewitnesses. It is impossible that He is not Messiah, Savior of the world. The ONLY person...past, present or future...who could fulfill all these prophecies is Jesus Christ

Fulfilled Prophecy Tenakh/Hebrew

Scripture New Testament

Micah 5:2 His pre-existence John 1:1, 14

Genesis 3:15 Born of the seed of a woman Matthew 1:18

Genesis 12:3 Of the seed of Abraham Matthew 1:1-16

Genesis 12:3 All nations blessed by Abraham's seed Matthew 8:5, 10

Genesis 22:8 God would provide Himself a Lamb as an offering John 1:29

Genesis 49:10 From the tribe of Judah Matthew 1:1-3

Isaiah 9:6-7 Heir to the throne of David Matthew 1:1

Isaiah 9:6 Called "The mighty God, The everlasting Father" Matthew 1:23

Micah 5:2 Born in Bethlehem Matthew 2:1

Isaiah 7:14 Born of a virgin Matthew 1:18

Isaiah 7:14 His name called Immanuel, "God with us" Matthew 1:23

Psalm 2:7 Declared to be the Son of God Matthew 3:17

Malachi 4:5-6 His messenger before Him in spirit of Elijah Luke 1:17

Malachi 3:1 Preceded by a messenger to prepare His way Matthew 11:7-11

Isaiah 40:3 Messenger crying "Prepare ye the way of the Lord" Matthew 3:3

Deuteronomy 18:15 Would be a Prophet of the children of Israel Matthew 2:15

Hosea 11:1 Called out of Egypt Matthew 2:15

Jeremiah 31:15 Slaughter of the children Matthew2:18

Judges 13:5;Amos 2:11;Lam. 4:7 Would be a Nazarene Matthew 2:23

Isaiah 9:1-2 Brought light to Zabulon & Nephthalm, Galilee of the Gentiles Matthew 4:15

Psalm 72:10 Presented with gifts Matthew 2:1, 11

Isaiah 53:3 Rejected by His own Matthew 21:42; Mark 8:31,12:10; Luke 9:22,17:25 Psalm 118:22-23;

Isaiah 28:16He is the stone which the builders rejected which became the headstone Matthew 21:42; IPeter 2:7

Isaiah 8:14-15 A stone of stumbling to Israel I Peter 2:8

Zechariah 9:9 He entered Jerusalem as a king riding on an ass Matthew 21:5

Psalms 41:9 Betrayed by a friend John 13:21

Zechariah 11:12 Sold for 30 pieces of silver Matthew 26:15; Luke 22:5

Zechariah 11:12 The 30 pieces of silver given for the potter's field Matthew 27:9-10

Zechariah 11:13 The 30 pieces of silver thrown in the temple Matthew 27:5

Zechariah 13:7 Forsaken by His disciples Matthew 26:56

Psalm 35:11 Accused by false witnesses Matthew 26:60

Isaiah 53:7 Silent to accusations Matthew 27:14

Isaiah 35:5-6 Isaiah 29:18 Heal blind/deaf/lame/dumb; Matthew 11:5

Isaiah 61:Preached to the poor/brokenhearted/captives 1 Matthew 11:5

Micah 7:6 Came to bring a sword, not peace Matthew 10:34-35

Isaiah 53:4 He bore our sickness Matthew 8:16-17

Isaiah 50:6, 53:5 Spat upon, smitten and scourged Matthew 27:26, 30

Micah 5:1 Smitten on the cheek Matthew 27:30

Psalm 35:19 Hated without a cause Matthew 27:23

Isaiah 53:5 The sacrificial lamb John 1:29

Isaiah 42:6;Jeremiah 31:31-34Given for a covenant Romans 11:27/Galatians 3:17, 4:24/Hebrews 8:6, 8, 10; 10:16, 29; 12:24; 13:20

Isaiah 42:2-3 Would not strive or cry Mark 7:36

Isaiah 6:9-10 People would hear not and see not Matthew 13:14-15

Isaiah 29:13 People trust in traditions of men Matthew 15:9

Isaiah 29:13 People give God lip service Matthew 15:8

Isaiah 42:1 God delights in Him Matthew 3:17, 17:5

Isaiah 53:5 Wounded for our sins John 6:51

Isaiah 53:10-12 He bore the sins of many Mark 10:45

Daniel 9:26 Messiah not killed for Himself Matthew 20:28

Isaiah 55:5, 60:3,65:1; Malachi1:11;II Samuel 22:44-45; Psalm 2:7-8Gentiles flock to Him

Matthew 8:10

Isaiah 53:12 Crucified with criminals Matthew 27:35

Zechariah 12:10; His body was pierced Ps. 22:16 John 20:25, 27

Psalm 22:16 Thirsty during execution John 19:28

Psalm 69:21 Given vinegar and gall for thirst Matthew 27:34

Psalm 22:18 Soldiers gambled for his garment Matthew 27:35

Psalm 22:7-8 People mocked, "He trusted in God, let Him deliver him!" Matthew 27:43

Psalm 22:17 People sat there looking at Him Matthew 27:36

Psalm 22:1 Cried, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46

Amos 8:9 Darkness over the land Matthew 27:45

Psalm 34:20, Numbers 9:12 No bones broken John 19:33-36

Zechariah 12:10 Side pierced John 19:34

Isaiah 53:9 Buried with the rich Matthew 27:57, 60

Psalm 16:10-11; 49:15 Resurrected from the dead Mark 16:6

Psalm 110:4 Priest after the order of Melchizedek Hebrews 5:5-6; 6:20; 7:15-17

Psalm 68:18 Ascended to right hand of God Luke 24:51

Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto Him, "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make

thine enemies thy footstool Matt 22:44; Mark 12:36;, 16:19; Luke 20:42-43;

Acts 2:34-35; Hebrews 1:13

His coming glory Malachi 3:2-3 Luke 3:17

324 Messianic Prophecies

Gen. 3:15.....He will bruise Satan's head.....Heb. 2:14, 1 Jn. 3:18

Gen. 5:24....The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated....Mk. 6:19

Gen. 9:26,27...The God of Shem will be the Son of Shem...Lu.

3:36

Gen. 12:3...As Abraham's seed,will bless all nations...Acts.

3:25,26

Gen. 12:7...The Promise made to Abraham's Seed...Gal. 3:16

Gen. 14:18...A priest after Melchizedek...Heb. 6:20

Gen. 14:18........A King also........Heb. 7:2

Gen. 14:18...The Last Supper foreshadowed...Mt. 26:26-29

Gen. 17:19.......The Seed of Isaac.......Rom. 9:7

Gen. 22:8...The Lamb of God promised...Jn. 1:29

Gen. 22:18...As Isaac's seed, will bless all nations...Gal. 3:16

Gen.26:2-5..The Seed of Isaac promised as the

Redeemer..Heb.11:18

Gen. 49:10...The time of His coming...Lu. 2:1-7; Gal. 4:4

Gen. 49:10.......The Seed of Judah.......Lu. 3:33

Gen. 49:10......Called Shiloh or One Sent......Jn. 17:3

Gen. 49:10...To come before Judah lost identity...Jn. 11:47-52

Gen. 49:10...To Him shall the obedience of the people be...Jn.

10:16

Ex. 3:13,14........The Great "I Am".......Jn. 4:26

Ex. 12:5...A Lamb without blemish...1 Pet. 1:19

Ex. 12:13...The blood of the Lamb saves from wrath...Rom. 5:8

Ex. 12:21-27...Christ is our Passover...1 Cor. 5;7

Ex. 12:46...Not a bone of the Lamb to be broken...Jn. 19:31-36

Ex. 15:2...His exaltation predicted as Yeshua...Acts 7:55,56

Ex. 15:11...His Character-Holiness...Luke 1:35; Acts 4:27

Ex. 17:6...The Spiritual Rock of Israel...1 Cor. 10;4

Ex. 33:19...His Character-Merciful...Lu. 1:72

Lev.14:11..The leper cleansed-Sign to priesthood..Lu.5:12-14;

Acts 6:7

Lev.16:15-17...Prefigures Christ's once-for-all death...Heb. 9:7-14

Lev.16:27...Suffering outside the Camp...Mt. 27:33; Heb. 13:11,

12

Lev.17:11...The Blood-the life of the flesh...Mt. 26;28; Mk. 10:45

Lev.17:11...It is the blood that makes atonement...1 Jn. 3:14-18

Lev.23:36-37...The Drink-offering: "If any man thirst." ..Jn.

19:31-36

Num. 9:12...Not a bone of Him broken...John 19:31-36

Num. 21:9...The serpent on a pole-Christ lifted up...Jn. 3:14-18

Num. 24:17...Time: "I shall see him, but not now."...Gal. 4:4

Deut. 18:15..."This is of a truth that prophet."...Jn. 6:14

Deut. 18:15-16..."Had ye believed Moses, ye would believe

me."...Jn. 5:45-47

Deut. 18:18...Sent by the Father to speak His word...Jn. 8:28, 29

Deut. 18:19...Whoever will not hear must bear his sin...Jn. 12:15,

Deut. 21:23...Cursed is he that hangs on a tree...Gal. 3:10-13

Ruth 4:4-9...Christ, our kinsman, has redeemed us...Eph. 1:3-7

1 Sam. 2:10...Shall be an anointed King to the Lord...Mt. 28:18;

Jn. 12:15

2 Sam. 7:12...David's Seed...Mt. 1:1

2 Sam. 7:14a...The Son of God... Lu. 1:32

2 Sam. 7:16...David's house established forever...Lu. 3:31; Rev.

22:16

2 Ki. 2:11...The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated...Lu. 24:51

1 Chr. 17:11...David's Seed...Mt. 1:1; 9:27

1 Chr. 17:12, 13a...To reign on David's throne forever...Lu. 1:32,

33

1 Chr. 17:13a..."I will be His Father, He...my Son."...Heb. 1:5

Job 19:23-27...The Resurrection predicted...Jn. 5:24-29

Psa. 2:1-3...The enmity of kings foreordained...Acts 4:25-28

Psa. 2:2...To own the title, Anointed (Christ)...Acts 2:36

Ps. 2:6...His Character-Holiness...Jn. 8:46; Rev. 3:7

Ps. 2:6...To own the title King...Mt. 2:2

Ps. 2:7...Declared the Beloved Son...Mt. 3;17

Psa. 2:7, 8...The Crucifixion and Resurrection intimated...Acts

13:29-33

Psa. 2:12...Life comes through faith in Him...Jn. 20:31

Psa. 8:2...The mouths of babes perfect His praise...Mt. 21:16

Psa. 8:5, 6...His humiliation and exaltation...Lu. 24:50-53; 1 Cor.

15:27

Psa. 16:10...Was not to see corruption...Acts 2:31

Psa. 16:9-11...Was to arise from the dead...Jn. 20:9

Psa. 17;15...The resurrection predicted...Lu. 24:6

Psa. 22:1...Forsaken because of sins of others...2 Cor. 5:21

Psa. 22:1...Words spoken from Calvary, "My God..." Mk.

15:34

Psa. 22:2...Darkness upon Calvary...Mt. 27:45

Psa. 22:7...They shoot out the lip and shake the head...Mt.

27:39

Psa. 22:8.."He trusted in God, let Him deliver Him"...Mt.

27:43

Psa. 22:9......Born the Saviour......Lu. 2:7

Psa. 22:14...Died of a broken (ruptured)heart...Jn. 19:34

Psa. 22:14,15...Suffered agony on Calvary...Mk. 15:34-37

Psa. 22:15........He thirsted........Jn. 19:28

Psa. 22:16...They pierced His hands and His feet....Jn.

19:34,37;20:27

Psa. 22:17,18...Stripped Him before the stares of men...Lu.

23:34,35

Psa. 22:18.....They parted His garments.....Jn. 19:23,24

Psa. 22:20,21...He committed Himself to God...Lu.23:46

Psa. 22:20,21..Satanic power bruising the Redeemer's

heel..Heb. 2:14

Psa. 22:22.....His Resurrection declared.....Jn. 20:17

Psa. 22:27...He shall be the governor of the nations...Col 1:16

Psa. 22:31......"It is finished"......Jn. 19:30

Psa. 23:1...."I am the Good Shephard"....Jn. 10:11

Psa. 24:3......His exaltation predicted......Acts 1:11; Phil. 2:9

Psa. 30:3......His resurrection predicted......Acts 2:32

Psa. 31:5..."Into thy hands I commit my spirit"...Lu. 23:46

Psa. 31:11...His acquaintances fled from Him...Mk. 14:50

Psa. 31:13...They took counsel to put Him to death...Jn. 11:53

Psa. 31:14,15..." He trusted in God, let Him deliver him"...Mt.

27:43

Psa. 34:20.....Not a bone of Him broken.....Jn 19:31-36

Psa. 35:11....False witnesses rose up against Him....Mt. 26:59

Psa. 35:19...He was hated without a cause...Jn. 15:25

Psa. 38:11.....His friends stood afar off.....Lu. 23:49

Psa. 40:2-5...The joy of His resurrection predicted...Jn. 20:20

Psa. 40:6-8....His delight-the will of the Father....Jn. 4:34

Psa. 40:9....He was to preach the Righteousness in Israel....Mt.

4:17

Psa. 40:14...Confronted by adversaries in the Garden...Jn. 18:4-6

Psa. 41:9.....Betrayed by a familiar friend.....Jn. 13:18

Psa. 45:2...Words of Grace come from His lips...Lu. 4:22

Psa. 45:6...To own the title, God or Elohim...Heb. 1:8

Psa. 45:7...A special anointing by the Holy Spirit...Mt.3:16;

Heb.1:9

Psa. 45:7,8...Called the Christ (Messiah or Anointed)...Lu. 2:11

Psa. 55:12-14...Betrayed by a friend, not an enemy...Jn. 13:18

Psa. 55:15...Unrepentant death of the Betrayer...Mt. 27:3-5; Acts

1:16-19

Psa. 68:18...To give gifts to men...Eph. 4:7-16

Psa. 68:18...Ascended into Heaven...Lu. 24:51

Psa. 69:4...Hated without a cause...Jn. 15:25

Psa. 69:8...A stranger to own brethren...Lu. 8;20,21

Psa. 69:9...Zealous for the Lord's House...Jn. 2:17

Psa. 69:14-20...Messiah's anguish of soul before crucifixion...Mt.

26:36-45

Psa. 69:20..."My soul is exceeding sorrowful."...Mt. 26:38

Psa. 69:21...Given vinegar in thirst...Mt. 27:34

Psa. 69:26...The Saviour given and smitten by God...Jn. 17:4;

18:11

Psa. 72:10,11...Great persons were to visit Him...Mt. 2:1-11

Psa. 72:16...The corn of wheat to fall into the Ground...Jn. 12:24

Psa. 72:17...His name, Yinon, will produce offspring...Jn. 1:12,13

Psa. 72:17...All nations shall be blessed by Him...Acts 2:11,12,41

Psa. 78:1.2...He would teach in parables...Mt. 13:34-35

Psa. 78:2b...To speak the Wisdom of God with authority...Mt.

7:29

Psa. 88:8...They stood afar off and watched...Lu. 23:49

Psa. 89:27...Emmanuel to be higher than earthly kings...Lu.

1:32,33

Psa. 89:35-37...David's Seed, throne, kingdom endure

forever...Lu. 1:32,33

Psa. 89:36-37...His character-Faithfulness...Rev. 1:5

Psa. 90:2...He is from everlasting (Micah 5:2)...Jn. 1:1

Psa. 91:11,12...Identified as Messianic; used to tempt Christ...Lu.

4;10,11

Psa. 97:9...His exaltation predicted...Acts 1:11;Eph. 1:20

Psa. 100:5...His character-Goodness...Mt. 19:16,17

Psa. 102:1-11...The Suffering and Reproach of Calvary...Jn.

21:16-30

Psa. 102:25-27...Messiah is the Preexistent Son...Heb. 1:10-12

Psa. 109:25...Ridiculed...Mt. 27:39

Psa. 110:1...Son of David...Mt. 22:43

Psa. 110:1...To ascend to the right-hand of the Father...Mk.16:19

Psa. 110:1...David's son called Lord...Mt. 22:44,45

Psa. 110:4...A priest after Melchizedek's order...Heb. 6:20

Psa. 112:4...His character-Compassionate, Gracious, et al... Mt.

9;36

Psa. 118:17,18...Messiah's Resurrection assured...Lu. 24:5-7;1

Cor. 15:20

Psa. 118:22,23...The rejected stone is Head of the corner...Mt.

21:42,43

Psa. 118:26a...The Blessed One presented to Israel...Mt. 21:9

Psa. 118:26b...To come while Temple standing...Mt. 21;12-15

Psa. 132:11...The Seed of David(the fruit of His Body)...Lu. 1:32

Psa. 138:1-6...The supremacy of David's Seed amazes kings... Mt.

2:2-6

Psa. 147:3,6...The earthly ministry of Christ described...Lu. 4:18

Psa. 1:23...He will send the Spirit of God... Jn. 16;7

Song. 5;16...The altogether lovely One...Jn. 1:17

Isa. 6:1...When Isaiah saw His glory... Jn. 12:40-41

Isa. 6:9-10...Parables fall on deaf ears...Mt. 13:13-15

Isa. 6:9-12...Blinded to Christ and deaf to His words...Acts. 28:23-

29

Isa. 7:14...To be born of a virgin...Lu. 1:35

Isa. 7:14...To be Emmanuel-God with us... Mt. 1:18-23

Isa. 8:8...Called Emmanuel...Mt. 28:20

Isa. 8:14...A stone of stumbling, a Rock of offense... 1 Pet. 2:8

Isa. 9:1,2...His ministry to begin in Galilee...Mt. 4:12-17

Isa. 9:6...A child born-Humanity...Lu. 1:31

Isa. 9:6...A Son given-Deity...Lu. 1:32; Jn. 1;14; 1 Tim. 3:16

Isa. 9:6...Declared to be the Son of God with power... Rom. 1:3,4

Isa. 9:6...The Wonderful One, Peleh...Lu. 4:22

Isa. 9:6...The Counsellor, Yaatz...Mt. 13:54

Isa. 9:6...The Mighty God, El Gibor...Mt. 11:20

Isa. 9:6...The Everlasting Father, Avi Adth...Jn. 8:58

Isa. 9:6...The Prince of Peace, Sar Shalom...Jn . 16:33

Isa. 9:7...To establish an everlasting kingdom...Lu. 1:32-33

Isa. 9:7...His Character-Just...Jn. 5:30

Isa. 9:7...No end to his Government, Throne, and Peace...Lu.

1:32-33

Isa. 11:1...Called a Nazarene-the Branch, Netzer...Mt. 2:23

Isa. 11:1...A rod out of Jesse-Son of Jesse...Lu. 3:23,32

Isa. 11:2...The anointed One by the Spirit...Mt. 3;16,17

Isa. 11:2...His Character-Wisdom, Understanding, et al....Jn. 4:4-

26

Isa. 11:4...His Character-Truth...Jn. 14:6

Isa. 11:10...The Gentiles seek Him...Jn. 12:18-21

Isa. 12:2...Called Jesus-Yeshua...Mt. 1:21

Isa. 25:8...The Resurrection predicted...I Cor. 15:54

Isa. 26:19...His power of Resurrection predicted...Jn. 11:43,44

Isa. 28:16...The Messiah is the precious corner stone...Acts

4:11,12

Isa. 29:13...He indicated hypocritical obedience to His Word...Mt.

15:7-9

Isa. 29:14...The wise are confounded by the Word...I Cor. 1:18-31

Isa. 32:2...A Refuge-A man shall be a hiding place...Mt. 23:37

Isa. 35:4...He will come and save you...Mt. 1:21

Isa. 35:5...To have a ministry of miracles...Mt. 11:4-6

Isa. 40:3,4...Preceded by forerunner...Jn. 1:23

Isa. 40:9..."Behold your God."...Jn. 1:36;19:14

Isa. 40:11...A shepherd-compassionatelife-giver...Jn. 10:10-18

Isa. 42:1-4...The Servant-as a faithful, patient redeemer...

Mt.12:18-21

Isa. 42:2...Meek and lowly... Mt. 11:28-30

Isa. 42:3...He brings hope for the hopeless... Jn. 4

Isa. 42:4...The nations shall wait on His teachings... Jn. 12:20-26

Isa. 42:6...The Light (salvation) of the Gentiles...Lu. 2:32

Isa. 42:1,6...His is a Worldwide compassion... Mt. 28:19,20

Isa. 42:7...Blind eyes opened... Jn. 9:25-38

Isa. 43:11...He is the only Saviour... Acts. 4:12

Isa. 44:3...He will send the Spirit of God... Jn. 16:7,13

Isa. 45:23...He will be the Judge... Jn. 5:22;Rom. 14:11

Isa. 48:12...The First and the Last...Jn. 1:30;Rev. 1:8,17

Isa. 48:17...He came as a Teacher...Jn. 3:2

Isa. 49:1...Called from the womb-His humanity...Mt. 1:18

Isa. 49:5...A Servant from the womb...Lu. 1:31;Phil. 2:7

Isa. 49:6...He is Salvation for Israel...Lu. 2:29-32

Isa. 49:6...He is the Light of the Gentiles...Acts 13:47

Isa. 49:6...He is Salvation unto the ends of the earth... Acts 15:7-

18

Isa. 49:7...He is despised of the Nation... Jn. 8:48-49

Isa. 50:3...Heaven is clothed in black at His humiliation... Lu.

23:44,45

Isa. 50:4...He is a learned counsellor for the weary... Mt. 11:28,29

Isa. 50:5...The Servant bound willingly to obedience... Mt. 26:39

Isa. 50:6a..."I gave my back to the smiters."... Mt. 27:26

Isa. 50:6b...He was smitten on the cheeks... Mt. 26:67

Isa. 50:6c...He was spat upon... Mt. 27:30

Isa. 52:7...To publish good tidings of peace... Lu. 4:14,15

Isa. 52:13...The Servant exalted...Acts 1:8-11; Eph. 1:19-22

Isa. 52:13...Behold, My Servant... Mt. 17:5; Phil. 2:5-8

Isa. 52:14...The Servant shockingly abused... Lu. 18:31-34; Mt.

26:67,68

Isa. 52:15...Nations startled by message of the Servant... Rom.

15:18-21

Isa. 52:15...His blood shed to make atonement for all... Rev. 1:5

Isa. 53:1...His people would not believe Him... Jn. 12:37-38

Isa. 53:2a...He would grow up in a poor family.... Lu. 2:7

Isa. 53:2b...Appearance of an ordinary man... Phil. 2:7-8

Isa. 53:3a...Despised.... Lu. 4:28-29

Isa. 53:3b...Rejected... Mt. 27:21-23

Isa. 53:3c...Great sorrow and grief... Lu. 19:41-42

Isa. 53:3d...Men hide from being associated with Him... Mk.

14:50-52

Isa. 53:4a...He would have a healing ministry... Lu. 6:17-19

Isa. 53:4b...He would bear the sins of the world... 1 Pet. 2:24

Isa. 53:4c...Thought to be cursed by God... Mt. 27:41-43

Isa. 53:5a...Bears penalty for mankind's transgressions... Lu. 23:33

Isa. 53:5b...His sacrifice would provide peace between man and

God... Col. 1:20

Isa. 53:5c...His back would be whipped... Mt. 27:26

Isa. 53:6a...He would be the sin-bearer for all mankind...Gal. 1:4

Isa. 53:6b...God's will that He bear sin for all mankind... 1 Jn.

4:10

Isa. 53:7a...Oppressed and afflicted... Mt. 27:27-31

Isa. 53:7b...Silent before his accusers... Mt. 27:12-14

Isa. 53:7c...Sacrificial lamb... Jn. 1:29

Isa. 53:8a...Confined and persecuted... Mt. 26:47-27:31

Isa. 53:8b...He would be judged... Jn. 18:13-22

Isa. 53:8c...Killed.... Mt. 27:35

Isa. 53:8d...Dies for the sins of the world... 1 Jn. 2:2

Isa. 53:9a...Buried in a rich man's grave... Mt. 27:57

Isa. 53:9b...Innocent and had done no violence... Mk. 15:3

Isa. 53:9c...No deceit in his mouth... Jn. 18:38

Isa. 53:10a...God's will that He die for mankind... Jn. 18:11

Isa. 53:10b...An offering for sin... Mt. 20:28

Isa. 53:10c...Resurrected and live forever.... Mk. 16:16

Isa. 53:10d...He would prosper... Jn. 17:1-5

Isa. 53:11a...God fully satisfied with His suffering... Jn. 12:27

Isa. 53:11b...God's servant... Rom. 5:18-19

Isa. 53:11c...He would justify man before God... Rom. 5:8-9

Isa. 53:11d...The sin-bearer for all mankind... Heb. 9:28

Isa. 53:12a...Exalted by God because of his sacrifice... Mt. 28:18

Isa. 53:12b...He would give up his life to save mankind... Lu.

23:46

Isa. 53:12c...Grouped with criminals... Lu. 23:32

Isa. 53:12d...Sin-bearer for all mankind... 2 Cor. 5:21

Isa. 53:12e...Intercede to God in behalf of mankind... Lu. 23:34

Isa. 55:3...Resurrected by God... Acts 13:34

Isa. 55:4...A witness... Jn. 18:37

Isa. 59:15-16a...He would come to provide salvation... Jn. 6:40

Isa. 59:15-16b...Intercessor between man and God... Mt. 10:32

Isa. 59:20...He would come to Zion as their Redeemer... Lu. 2:38

Isa. 61:1-2a...The Spirit of God upon him... Mt. 3:16-17

Isa. 61:1-2b...The Messiah would preach the good news... Lu.

4:17-21

Isa. 61:1-2c...Provide freedom from the bondage of sin and

death... Jn. 8:31-32

Isa. 61:1-2...Proclaim a period of grace... Jn. 5:24

Jer.23:5-6a...Descendant of David...Lu. 3:23-31

Jer. 23:5-6b...The Messiah would be God... Jn. 13:13

Jer. 23:5-6c...The Messiah would be both God and Man... 1 Tim.

3:16

Jer. 31:22...Born of a virgin... Mt. 1:18-20

Jer. 31:31...The Messiah would be the new covenant... Mt. 26:28

Jer. 33:14-15...Descendant of David... Lu. 3:23-31

Eze.17:22-24...Descendant of David... Lk. 3:23-31

Eze.34:23-24...Descendant of David... Mt. 1:1

Dan. 7:13-14a...He would ascend into heaven... Acts 1:9-11

Dan. 7:13-14b...Highly exalted... Eph. 1:20-22

Dan. 7:13-14c...His dominion would be everlasting... Lu. 1:31-33

Dan. 9:24a...To make an end to sins... Gal. 1:3-5

Dan. 9:24b...He would be holy... Lu. 1:35

Dan. 9:25...Announced to his people 483 years, to the exact day,

after the decree to rebuild the city of Jerusalem... Jn. 12:12-13

Dan. 9:26a...Killed... Mt. 27:35

Dan. 9:26b...Die for the sins of the world... Heb. 2:9

Dan. 9:26c...Killed before the destruction of the temple... Mt.

27:50-51

Dan. 10:5-6...Messiah in a glorified state... Rev. 1:13-16

Hos. 13:14...He would defeat death... 1 Cor. 15:55-57

Joel 2:32...Offer salvation to all mankind... Rom. 10:12-13

Mic. 5:2a...Born in Bethlehem... Mt. 2:1-2

Mic. 5:2b...God's servant... Jn. 15:10

Mic. 5:2c...From everlasting... Jn. 8:58

Hag. 2:6-9...He would visit the second Temple... Lu. 2:27-32

Hag. 2:23...Descendant of Zerubbabel... Lu. 3:23-27

Zech. 3:8...God's servant... Jn. 17:4

Zech. 6:12-13...Priest and King... Heb. 8:1

Zech. 9:9a...Greeted with rejoicing in Jerusalem... Mt. 21:8-10

Zech. 9:9b...Beheld as King... Jn. 12:12-13

Zech. 9:9c...The Messiah would be just... Jn. 5:30

Zech. 9:9d...The Messiah would bring salvation... Luke 19:10

Zech. 9:9e...The Messiah would be humble... Mt. 11:29

Zech. 9:9f...Presented to Jerusalem riding on a donkey... Mt. 21:6-

9

Zech. 10:4...The cornerstone... Eph. 2:20

Zech. 11:4-6a...At His coming, Israel to have unfit leaders... Mt.

23:1-4

Zech. 11:4-6b...Rejection causes God to remove His protection..

Lu. 19:41-44

Zech. 11:4-6c...Rejected in favor of another king... Jn. 19:13-15

Zech. 11:7...Ministry to "poor," the believing remnant... Mt. 9:35-

36

Zech. 11:8a...Unbelief forces Messiah to reject them... Mt. 23:33

Zech. 11:8b...Despised... Mt. 27:20

Zech. 11:9...Stops ministering to the those who rejected Him...

Mt. 13:10-11

Zech. 11:10-11a...Rejection causes God to remove protection...

Lu. 19:41-44

Zech. 11:10-11b...The Messiah would be God... Jn. 14:7

Zech. 11:12-13a...Betrayed for thirty pieces of silver... Mt. 26:14-

15

Zech. 11:12-13b...Rejected... Mt. 26:14-15

Zech. 11:12-13c...Thirty pieces of silver thrown into the house of

the Lord... Mt. 27:3-5

Zech. 11:12-13d...The Messiah would be God... Jn. 12:45

Zech. 12:10a...The Messiah's body would be pierced... Jn. 19:34-

37

Zech. 12:10b...The Messiah would be both God and man... Jn.

10:30

Zech. 12:10c...The Messiah would be rejected... Jn. 1:11

Zech. 13:7a...God's will He die for mankind... Jn. 18:11

Zech. 13:7b...A violent death... Mt. 27:35

Zech. 13:7c...Both God and man.. Jn. 14:9

Zech. 13:7d...Israel scattered as a result of rejecting Him... Mt.

26:31-56

Mal. 3:1a...Messenger to prepare the way for Messiah... Mt. 11:10

Mal. 3:1b...Sudden appearance at the temple... Mk. 11:15-16

Mal. 3:1c...Messenger of the new covenant... Lu. 4:43

Mal. 4:5...Forerunner in the spirit of Elijah... Mt. 3:1-2

Mal. 4:6...Forerunner would turn many to righteousness... Lu.1:16-17

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:14 pm

Ted;1509826 wrote: xfrod with all due respect that is pure nonssence. But you want to believve that then I have some swampland for sale in Florida. You could build a condo on it.

Why don't you refute everything that I debunked that you said? Because you are wrong. I hope you will at least look at what I have presented.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Sat Jun 03, 2017 6:48 pm

So I guess you don't have an answer, yet you continue to assert that you are in the right and I am in the wrong? If it starts to make sense to you, you can PM me or comment here and I will gladly show you more evidence.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:44 pm

xfrod I have always said you are entitled to your opinion. I was raised in a very fundamentalist evangelical church and found it evil. God,if one so believes, gave us the mental faculties to seek out the truth. In fact for what its worth the Bible "You shall seek the truth and it will make you free. I've never felt more fre. It also says "study to show theyself approved" If You shoose to accept absurdities as truth that is fine. I do not. That list of quotes was of no possible use to me as hgistorical. Abolutely not. There is some history there but written in midrash which is not to be taken litgerally..

qoo =====ds

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:45 pm

I do not find that a valid question. In my view fundamentalism is a curse to Christianity. We are heading towards religionless Christianity. It is welll known that in Logic an idea or object cannot affirm itself. So for the Bible to say it is "The Word of God" is unacceptable. But maybe I could claim to be God and have that recognized as valid.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:44 pm

Ted;1509917 wrote: xfrod I have always said you are entitled to your opinion. I was raised in a very fundamentalist evangelical church and found it evil. God,if one so believes, gave us the mental faculties to seek out the truth. In fact for what its worth the Bible "You shall seek the truth and it will make you free. I've never felt more fre. It also says "study to show theyself approved" If You shoose to accept absurdities as truth that is fine. I do not. That list of quotes was of no possible use to me as hgistorical. Abolutely not. There is some history there but written in midrash which is not to be taken litgerally..

qoo =====ds

What exactly did you find to be "Evil" about the Church you were raised in? I do see the truth. You quote the Bible passages that tell you to seek the truth, but do you accept the ones that tell you that you must accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior in order to be saved? "Study to show thyself approved" is referring to studying the scriptures. Also, who says that I don't study science, history and other topics as well and see that it lines up with the Bible? I wonder how a person who honestly studies could see it any other way. I don't find God's word to be absurdities. Why would you believe some verses in the Bible and not others? Those quotes are absolutely historical. You can reject them, but you are kidding yourself. There is more too. The writings of Josephus. The Apocriphical writings, the gnostic writings, although flawed, back up the Bible as well. This whole midrash excuse is a way for you to try and interpret God's word as you see fit rather than the way it was intended to be interpreted. By the way, midrash didn't even come about until the 2nd century AD, over 100 years after the Bible was completed. You are kidding yourself.

MidÂ·rash

ËˆmidËŒrÃ¤SH/Submit

noun

noun: Midrash; plural noun: Midrashim; noun: midrash; plural noun: midrashes

an ancient commentary on part of the Hebrew scriptures, attached to the biblical text. The earliest Midrashim come from the 2nd century AD, although much of their content is older.

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:48 am

Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

If this be gods word, did god err when he said it? If he erred, he probably did so in many other things; if he did not Christians must either still maintain the witchcraft delusion or deny the bible delusion.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:36 am

When it comes to Christianity there are some 22000 vvariations on a theme. Many of the comments made by some are simply not the approach I and many others take. They are talking about so me of the variations but not all of them.

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:10 am

The Bible is a lie. It is a fake and a fraud.

I denounce this book and its god.

I hold it in utter detestation.

Every man and woman who has contributed to the relief of the pain and suffering of humanity

has been an infidel to the Bible god.

Every new invention, every new discovery for the benefit of man violates these Biblical edicts.

I say, seek knowledge-defy this tyrant god-it is your only salvation.

Joseph Lewis

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:48 am

The Bible as you describe it I too detest. However an honest study of the midrash is entirely different. Like in Dawkins book "The God Delusion He obviously hasn't been into a church recently." I do agree with him but he is describing a church I'm not part of.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:21 pm

Fuzzy;1509942 wrote: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

If this be gods word, did god err when he said it? If he erred, he probably did so in many other things; if he did not Christians must either still maintain the witchcraft delusion or deny the bible delusion.

No. He did not err when He said that. It was a commandment given to Israel alone, not the Christians who are under grace. You don't know Biblical doctrine obviously. There are dispensations in the Bible, where God deals with man in different ways at different times. The reason for it is because they will lead God's people away from Him and cause them to go to hell. He was protecting His people. Nonetheless, we are no longer under the Mosaic Law we are under Grace.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:17 pm

Ted;1509945 wrote: When it comes to Christianity there are some 22000 vvariations on a theme. Many of the comments made by some are simply not the approach I and many others take. They are talking about so me of the variations but not all of them.

The only correct version of Christianity is tge one that actually does what the Bible says. So many churches do not follow God's word, which is why there is confusion.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:18 pm

Fuzzy;1509957 wrote: The Bible is a lie. It is a fake and a fraud.

Wrong. It's God's word.

I denounce this book and its god.

That's your choice. God has given you that freedom, but you will have to answer to God if you reject His free gift of salvation. Eternity is a long time.

I hold it in utter detestation.

Unbelievers or those who reject Christ:

Ro 8:7 because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be.

8 So then they who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Those are believe in Jesus for salvation:

9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

Every man and woman who has contributed to the relief of the pain and suffering of humanity

has been an infidel to the Bible god.

Every new invention, every new discovery for the benefit of man violates these Biblical edicts.

Absolutely false and illogical. Give some examples.

I say, seek knowledge-defy this tyrant god-it is your only salvation.

He's not a tyrant God, He is the ruler of all things and the creator of all things. He will judge all men. You should think about what you say about Him. His grace will run out.

Joseph Lewis

My response is in bold above

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:35 pm

Ted;1509970 wrote: The Bible as you describe it I too detest. However an honest study of the midrash is entirely different. Like in Dawkins book "The God Delusion He obviously hasn't been into a church recently." I do agree with him but he is describing a church I'm not part of.

Why do you detest it? Midrash didn't come about until 100 years after the Bible was completed.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:51 pm

Sid Roth explains his experience with the demonic.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... l=en&emb=0

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:35 pm

Foxes Book Of Martyrs. A History of the Persecuted Church Through History:

Fox's Book of Martyrs

Fisher Amen · Post by **Fisher Amen** » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:03 am

Fuzzy;1509957 wrote: The Bible is a lie. It is a fake and a fraud.

I denounce this book and its god.

I hold it in utter detestation.

Every man and woman who has contributed to the relief of the pain and suffering of humanity

has been an infidel to the Bible god.

Every new invention, every new discovery for the benefit of man violates these Biblical edicts.

I say, seek knowledge-defy this tyrant god-it is your only salvation.

Joseph Lewis

What would it take for you to actually believe in the Bible?

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:20 pm

Fisher Amen;1510104 wrote: What would it take for you to actually believe in the Bible?

That's a strange question. I guess it would have to be drastic changes in the makeup of my brain.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:16 am

Fuzzy;1510119 wrote: That's a strange question. I guess it would have to be drastic changes in the makeup of my brain.

Then why don't we pray that God will do that for you. If there is no God then you have nothing to lose right?

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:55 pm

Ahh, Pascal's wager. Let's assume for one moment that god exists and I pretended to believe. It would make me a hypocrite and since the old guy is supposedly allknowing, it wouldn't do me any good. If god decides to introduce himself properly, then I will believe in him. If he expects me to believe in him whilst doing his best to hide from me, then I don't. So, I reckon it's his problem, not mine.

However, what I really believe is, that god is just an invention by savage man. I don't know why so many are still clinging to that superstition.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:37 am

Mr. Lewis is entitled to his opinion. Many scholars do not agree with him.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:15 pm

Fuzzy;1510142 wrote: Ahh, Pascal's wager. Let's assume for one moment that god exists and I pretended to believe. It would make me a hypocrite and since the old guy is supposedly allknowing, it wouldn't do me any good. If god decides to introduce himself properly, then I will believe in him. If he expects me to believe in him whilst doing his best to hide from me, then I don't. So, I reckon it's his problem, not mine.

However, what I really believe is, that god is just an invention by savage man. I don't know why so many are still clinging to that superstition.

Why not pray and tell God that if He will reveal Himself to you that you will become a Christian and be willing to do so?

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:39 pm

xfrodobagginsx;1510165 wrote: Why not pray and tell God that if He will reveal Himself to you that you will become a Christian and be willing to do so?

I repeat....what I really believe is, that god is just an invention by savage man. I don't know why so many are still clinging to that superstition.

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:40 pm

Ted;1510152 wrote: Mr. Lewis is entitled to his opinion. Many scholars do not agree with him.

I do.

xfrodobagginsx · Post by **xfrodobagginsx** » Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:16 pm

Fuzzy;1510191 wrote: I repeat....what I really believe is, that god is just an invention by savage man. I don't know why so many are still clinging to that superstition.

...and I understand that. What if you are wrong? So, IF you found out that the Bible really WAS true and that there really IS a God, would you be willing to believe then? Or would you continue to refuse? It would seem to me that if you really don't believe in God or there really is no God what would it hurt to have a willing heart to believe in God IF He were to reveal Himself to you?

Fuzzy · Post by **Fuzzy** » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:21 pm

xfrodobagginsx;1510225 wrote: ...and I understand that. What if you are wrong? So, IF you found out that the Bible really WAS true and that there really IS a God, would you be willing to believe then? Or would you continue to refuse? It would seem to me that if you really don't believe in God or there really is no God what would it hurt to have a willing heart to believe in God IF He were to reveal Himself to you?

Just like you, I'm 100% sure that I'm not wrong in what I believe. I firmly believe that your god can not be proven.