What drivel this is.The Washington state governor, Jay Inslee, declared a state of emergency and visited the scene on Monday. He emphasised that the cause of the crash remained unknown.
“There are four things we need to do: express compassion for these families, respect first responders, stay off [Interstate 5] and suspend judgment. No one knows what happened in this incident.â€
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... peed-limit
No one knows what happened in this incident?
I saw an overhead photo on the news yesterday and said two things.
Firstly I said "what utter twat of a designer thought that kink in the rail line is an acceptable choice?"
And then I said "It's blatantly obvious that the very first time a driver forgets to slow down for that kink, the train will tear itself apart".
Jay Inslee needs a remedial course in making intelligent contributions instead of trying to appear pious.
We had exactly the same happen to a tram in Croydon last year. The fault lies with the route design office, you cannot make the man at the wheel a scapegoat.
Mindless soundbites
Mindless soundbites
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Mindless soundbites
spot;1516036 wrote: What drivel this is.The Washington state governor, Jay Inslee, declared a state of emergency and visited the scene on Monday. He emphasised that the cause of the crash remained unknown.
“There are four things we need to do: express compassion for these families, respect first responders, stay off [Interstate 5] and suspend judgment. No one knows what happened in this incident.â€
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... peed-limit
No one knows what happened in this incident?
I saw an overhead photo on the news yesterday and said two things.
Firstly I said "what utter twat of a designer thought that kink in the rail line is an acceptable choice?"
And then I said "It's blatantly obvious that the very first time a driver forgets to slow down for that kink, the train will tear itself apart".
Jay Inslee needs a remedial course in making intelligent contributions instead of trying to appear pious.
We had exactly the same happen to a tram in Croydon last year. The fault lies with the route design office, you cannot make the man at the wheel a scapegoat.
Well, the operator was supposed to mind the 30 mph speed limit. I suppose he could have got by at 35 or 40, but 80 was apparently pushing his luck, a tad.
“There are four things we need to do: express compassion for these families, respect first responders, stay off [Interstate 5] and suspend judgment. No one knows what happened in this incident.â€
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... peed-limit
No one knows what happened in this incident?
I saw an overhead photo on the news yesterday and said two things.
Firstly I said "what utter twat of a designer thought that kink in the rail line is an acceptable choice?"
And then I said "It's blatantly obvious that the very first time a driver forgets to slow down for that kink, the train will tear itself apart".
Jay Inslee needs a remedial course in making intelligent contributions instead of trying to appear pious.
We had exactly the same happen to a tram in Croydon last year. The fault lies with the route design office, you cannot make the man at the wheel a scapegoat.
Well, the operator was supposed to mind the 30 mph speed limit. I suppose he could have got by at 35 or 40, but 80 was apparently pushing his luck, a tad.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Mindless soundbites
spot;1516036 wrote: What drivel this is.The Washington state governor, Jay Inslee, declared a state of emergency and visited the scene on Monday. He emphasised that the cause of the crash remained unknown.
“There are four things we need to do: express compassion for these families, respect first responders, stay off [Interstate 5] and suspend judgment. No one knows what happened in this incident.â€
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... peed-limit
No one knows what happened in this incident?
I saw an overhead photo on the news yesterday and said two things.
Firstly I said "what utter twat of a designer thought that kink in the rail line is an acceptable choice?"
And then I said "It's blatantly obvious that the very first time a driver forgets to slow down for that kink, the train will tear itself apart".
Jay Inslee needs a remedial course in making intelligent contributions instead of trying to appear pious.
We had exactly the same happen to a tram in Croydon last year. The fault lies with the route design office, you cannot make the man at the wheel a scapegoat.
I'll wait for the results from the NTSB investagation.
“There are four things we need to do: express compassion for these families, respect first responders, stay off [Interstate 5] and suspend judgment. No one knows what happened in this incident.â€
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... peed-limit
No one knows what happened in this incident?
I saw an overhead photo on the news yesterday and said two things.
Firstly I said "what utter twat of a designer thought that kink in the rail line is an acceptable choice?"
And then I said "It's blatantly obvious that the very first time a driver forgets to slow down for that kink, the train will tear itself apart".
Jay Inslee needs a remedial course in making intelligent contributions instead of trying to appear pious.
We had exactly the same happen to a tram in Croydon last year. The fault lies with the route design office, you cannot make the man at the wheel a scapegoat.
I'll wait for the results from the NTSB investagation.
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
Mindless soundbites
tude dog;1516043 wrote: I'll wait for the results from the NTSB investagation.
You will?
They'll blame the driver. They invariably blame the driver. The fact that the corner was impossible to negotiate at speed, due to a blatant and catastrophic design error just waiting for a train to not slow down, will be completely ignored and left unmentioned.
Howling before the investigation about the design error strikes me as public-spirited. Just look at the site on Google Earth, it screams cost-cutting design error by refusing to acquire sufficient railroad access to build an adequately curved line instead of a sharp bend.
You will?
They'll blame the driver. They invariably blame the driver. The fact that the corner was impossible to negotiate at speed, due to a blatant and catastrophic design error just waiting for a train to not slow down, will be completely ignored and left unmentioned.
Howling before the investigation about the design error strikes me as public-spirited. Just look at the site on Google Earth, it screams cost-cutting design error by refusing to acquire sufficient railroad access to build an adequately curved line instead of a sharp bend.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Mindless soundbites
spot;1516044 wrote: You will?
They'll blame the driver. They invariably blame the driver. The fact that the corner was impossible to negotiate at speed, due to a blatant and catastrophic design error just waiting for a train to not slow down, will be completely ignored and left unmentioned.
Howling before the investigation about the design error strikes me as public-spirited. Just look at the site on Google Earth, it screams cost-cutting design error by refusing to acquire sufficient railroad access to build an adequately curved line instead of a sharp bend.
Surely, you are mistaken, sir. I am certain that the railroad designers took into account every safety factor to support the most advanced railroad technology when laying out those tracks in 1912.
They'll blame the driver. They invariably blame the driver. The fact that the corner was impossible to negotiate at speed, due to a blatant and catastrophic design error just waiting for a train to not slow down, will be completely ignored and left unmentioned.
Howling before the investigation about the design error strikes me as public-spirited. Just look at the site on Google Earth, it screams cost-cutting design error by refusing to acquire sufficient railroad access to build an adequately curved line instead of a sharp bend.
Surely, you are mistaken, sir. I am certain that the railroad designers took into account every safety factor to support the most advanced railroad technology when laying out those tracks in 1912.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Mindless soundbites
LarsMac;1516045 wrote: Surely, you are mistaken, sir. I am certain that the railroad designers took into account every safety factor to support the most advanced railroad technology when laying out those tracks in 1912.Is that when it was built?1912? Ouch! Cost cutting is an understatement.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Mindless soundbites
LarsMac;1516045 wrote: Surely, you are mistaken, sir. I am certain that the railroad designers took into account every safety factor to support the most advanced railroad technology when laying out those tracks in 1912.
I guarantee you're wrong. That road interchange, with the bridge carrying the railway over the new road, cannot possibly be more than ten years old and the path taken by the track cannot possibly be the same as it was in 1912, that rail path was laid out this century. We could, if you think I'm mistaken, delve and discover.
I would guess that in 1912 the line was straight and there was a road crossing the rail track with no warning bell, just the view up and down the track itself. Look at how many lanes the new road has - did they do that in 1912? No, they didn't. Neither did they take lanes round curves like that either.
What the modern designer has done is to introduce a potentially lethal zigzag into the rail track to take it over the road on a new bridge. The zigzag wasn't designed for passenger trains running the route at 80mph, hence the new operating requirement to slow down or die which wasn't there when the railroad was built a hundred years back.
Here's the current layout from some map app or other. The Old Pacific Highway might have been there in 1912 but those two multi-lane halves of Interstate 5 quite certainly weren't. You might concede that the line very likely used to drift in a neat curve to join those two north-south lines at the left of the area, while I go and find out when the most recent i5 upgrade happened to that junction.
Attached files
I guarantee you're wrong. That road interchange, with the bridge carrying the railway over the new road, cannot possibly be more than ten years old and the path taken by the track cannot possibly be the same as it was in 1912, that rail path was laid out this century. We could, if you think I'm mistaken, delve and discover.
I would guess that in 1912 the line was straight and there was a road crossing the rail track with no warning bell, just the view up and down the track itself. Look at how many lanes the new road has - did they do that in 1912? No, they didn't. Neither did they take lanes round curves like that either.
What the modern designer has done is to introduce a potentially lethal zigzag into the rail track to take it over the road on a new bridge. The zigzag wasn't designed for passenger trains running the route at 80mph, hence the new operating requirement to slow down or die which wasn't there when the railroad was built a hundred years back.
Here's the current layout from some map app or other. The Old Pacific Highway might have been there in 1912 but those two multi-lane halves of Interstate 5 quite certainly weren't. You might concede that the line very likely used to drift in a neat curve to join those two north-south lines at the left of the area, while I go and find out when the most recent i5 upgrade happened to that junction.
Attached files
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Mindless soundbites
spot;1516056 wrote: I guarantee you're wrong. That road interchange, with the bridge carrying the railway over the new road, cannot possibly be more than ten years old and the path taken by the track cannot possibly be the same as it was in 1912, that rail path was laid out this century. We could, if you think I'm mistaken, delve and discover.
I would guess that in 1912 the line was straight and there was a road crossing the rail track with no warning bell, just the view up and down the track itself. Look at how many lanes the new road has - did they do that in 1912? No, they didn't. Neither did they take lanes round curves like that either.
What the modern designer has done is to introduce a potentially lethal zigzag into the rail track to take it over the road on a new bridge. The zigzag wasn't designed for passenger trains running the route at 80mph, hence the new operating requirement to slow down or die which wasn't there when the railroad was built a hundred years back.
I am fairly certain that the rail line was laid out during the early building of the municipalities in the early 20th Century. That line was there long before the Interstate Highway was built. The Rail crosses a waterway and that is why it has the turns, which were perfectly safe for earlier rail systems.
They may have reworked the tracks in the late 20th in preparation for more modern rail traffic, and obviously had to restructure the rail line for the Interstate highway to run under it, but they used the same right of way. It is very unlikely that the right of way was changed to accommodate the interstate.
However, there are numerous discussions in the public documents surrounding the plans to provide high speed rail service to the region, and some genius decided that the existing tracks would be fine, as long as the operators minded the speed postings.
I would guess that in 1912 the line was straight and there was a road crossing the rail track with no warning bell, just the view up and down the track itself. Look at how many lanes the new road has - did they do that in 1912? No, they didn't. Neither did they take lanes round curves like that either.
What the modern designer has done is to introduce a potentially lethal zigzag into the rail track to take it over the road on a new bridge. The zigzag wasn't designed for passenger trains running the route at 80mph, hence the new operating requirement to slow down or die which wasn't there when the railroad was built a hundred years back.
I am fairly certain that the rail line was laid out during the early building of the municipalities in the early 20th Century. That line was there long before the Interstate Highway was built. The Rail crosses a waterway and that is why it has the turns, which were perfectly safe for earlier rail systems.
They may have reworked the tracks in the late 20th in preparation for more modern rail traffic, and obviously had to restructure the rail line for the Interstate highway to run under it, but they used the same right of way. It is very unlikely that the right of way was changed to accommodate the interstate.
However, there are numerous discussions in the public documents surrounding the plans to provide high speed rail service to the region, and some genius decided that the existing tracks would be fine, as long as the operators minded the speed postings.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Mindless soundbites
LarsMac;1516057 wrote: I am fairly certain that the rail line was laid out during the early building of the municipalities in the early 20th Century. That line was there long before the Interstate Highway was built. The Rail crosses a waterway and that is why it has the turns, which were perfectly safe for earlier rail systems.
They may have reworked the tracks in the late 20th in preparation for more modern rail traffic, and obviously had to restructure the rail line for the Interstate highway to run under it, but they used the same right of way. It is very unlikely that the right of way was changed to accommodate the interstate.
However, there are numerous discussions in the public documents surrounding the plans to provide high speed rail service to the region, and some genius decided that the existing tracks would be fine, as long as the operators minded the speed postings.
Here we are - the date that bridge was built. 2015-2017. And the route broke new ground for 14 miles including that bridge.
"The project included the construction of five upgraded at-grade crossings and several grade-separated overpasses and underpasses along Interstate 5 in Dupont and near JBLM" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Defiance_Bypass
They may have reworked the tracks in the late 20th in preparation for more modern rail traffic, and obviously had to restructure the rail line for the Interstate highway to run under it, but they used the same right of way. It is very unlikely that the right of way was changed to accommodate the interstate.
However, there are numerous discussions in the public documents surrounding the plans to provide high speed rail service to the region, and some genius decided that the existing tracks would be fine, as long as the operators minded the speed postings.
Here we are - the date that bridge was built. 2015-2017. And the route broke new ground for 14 miles including that bridge.
"The project included the construction of five upgraded at-grade crossings and several grade-separated overpasses and underpasses along Interstate 5 in Dupont and near JBLM" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Defiance_Bypass
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Mindless soundbites
spot;1516059 wrote: Here we are - the date that bridge was built. 2015-2017. And the route broke new ground for 14 miles including that bridge.
"The project included the construction of five upgraded at-grade crossings and several grade-separated overpasses and underpasses along Interstate 5 in Dupont and near JBLM" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Defiance_Bypass
Well, ...,
You are correct. That was an absolutely stupid plan to lay that line in such a fashion, knowing that they would be running high-speed trains on that line.
"The project included the construction of five upgraded at-grade crossings and several grade-separated overpasses and underpasses along Interstate 5 in Dupont and near JBLM" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Defiance_Bypass
Well, ...,
You are correct. That was an absolutely stupid plan to lay that line in such a fashion, knowing that they would be running high-speed trains on that line.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Mindless soundbites
Keep your eye open for the "Driver to blame" bit.
Which will be odd if 7 staff members were up front in the driving cab, don't you think? I don't know whether they were but it will become clearer in a few days. I'm just puzzled by that big number.
Which will be odd if 7 staff members were up front in the driving cab, don't you think? I don't know whether they were but it will become clearer in a few days. I'm just puzzled by that big number.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Mindless soundbites
spot;1516063 wrote: Keep your eye open for the "Driver to blame" bit.
Which will be odd if 7 staff members were up front in the driving cab, don't you think? I don't know whether they were but it will become clearer in a few days. I'm just puzzled by that big number.
Well, it was the "Inaugural Run" of the new route, so there may have been a bunch of mid-level management riding along to see that things went according to plan.
Which will be odd if 7 staff members were up front in the driving cab, don't you think? I don't know whether they were but it will become clearer in a few days. I'm just puzzled by that big number.
Well, it was the "Inaugural Run" of the new route, so there may have been a bunch of mid-level management riding along to see that things went according to plan.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Mindless soundbites
Ahso!;1516051 wrote: Is that when it was built?1912? Ouch! Cost cutting is an understatement.
Well, I was wrong about that. That particular line, as Spot found, was all new material and roadbed.
Well, I was wrong about that. That particular line, as Spot found, was all new material and roadbed.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Mindless soundbites
I might quote your increasingly risible President Narcissus at this point:The train accident that just occurred in DuPont, WA shows more than ever why our soon to be submitted infrastructure plan must be approved quickly. Seven trillion dollars spent in the Middle East while our roads, bridges, tunnels, railways (and more) crumble! Not for long! 10:41 AM - 18 Dec 2017. "Shows more than ever why"?
On the contrary, it suggests Americans should rely on their well-constructed utilities of the past and eschew new-fangled cost-cutting capitalist exploitation in the public arena.
On the contrary, it suggests Americans should rely on their well-constructed utilities of the past and eschew new-fangled cost-cutting capitalist exploitation in the public arena.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Mindless soundbites
Can't remember where but the report I first saw on this said that a local ?Senator? or someone with the right to speak out warned of exactly this occurring at this place at a public consultation event BEFORE this was ever built.
Let's see what comes out.
Let's see what comes out.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Mindless soundbites
:-3spot;1516066 wrote: I might quote your increasingly risible President Narcissus at this point:The train accident that just occurred in DuPont, WA shows more than ever why our soon to be submitted infrastructure plan must be approved quickly. Seven trillion dollars spent in the Middle East while our roads, bridges, tunnels, railways (and more) crumble! Not for long! 10:41 AM - 18 Dec 2017. "Shows more than ever why"?
On the contrary, it suggests Americans should rely on their well-constructed utilities of the past and eschew new-fangled cost-cutting capitalist exploitation in the public arena.
That is funny, you crack me up.:-3
On the contrary, it suggests Americans should rely on their well-constructed utilities of the past and eschew new-fangled cost-cutting capitalist exploitation in the public arena.
That is funny, you crack me up.:-3
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
Mindless soundbites
I have to agree with Spot on this one. Ultimately it comes down to Power & Money, and it is far easier to scapegoat a single person than it is to find fault in an entire institution, where additional liabilities & litigation come into play. Ok, so the driver shouldn't have been going that fast, but the design that was the main cause of the problem was an accident waiting to happen.