Trump Reneging On Charity Promise

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:44 pm

Donald Trump said he would donate one million dollars to a charity of her choice if Elizabeth Warren would take a DNA test proving she had Native American lineage.

She did, she does, and now he doesn't want to pay up claiming he never said it.

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:25 pm

Ahso!;1521008 wrote: Donald Trump said he would donate one million dollars to a charity of her choice if Elizabeth Warren would take a DNA test proving she had Native American lineage.

She did, she does, and now he doesn't want to pay up claiming he never said it.

Of course, he denies saying it even though it is on tape.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:43 pm

...quelle surprise...

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:15 am

She is 1/1,024 of possible Native American, could also be South American. 6-10 generations ago.

Now who here still considers her to be Native American.

I am 1/8 Cherokee, My great grandmother was 100 % Cherokee and lived on the Reservation in Oklahoma. I still don't consider myself Native American.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:25 am

YZGI;1521025 wrote: She is 1/1,024 of possible Native American, could also be South American. 6-10 generations ago.

Now who here still considers her to be Native American.

I am 1/16 Cherokee, My great grandmother was 100 % Cherokee and lived on the Reservation in Oklahoma. I still don't consider myself Native American.I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter what percentage is what. What matters is how a person chooses to identify themselves. Outside the playground this is never an issue once we mature. Who cares how you or I identify ourselves, and why should anyone make any sort of issue of it?

That Trump decided to make this an issue without specifying a minimum percentage required and put his money where his mouth is, he should pay up. He was incorrect. He lost the bet. Sometimes 9 as a high card wins.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:44 am

Ahso!;1521026 wrote: I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter what percentage is what. What matters is how a person chooses to identify themselves. Outside the playground this is never an issue once we mature. Who cares how you or I identify ourselves, and why should anyone make any sort of issue of it?

That Trump decided to make this an issue without specifying a minimum percentage required and put his money where his mouth is, he should pay up. He was incorrect. He lost the bet. Sometimes 9 as a high card wins.

If I were him I would pay her $976.63 (1/1024 of a million), I believe if my math is correct (it's probably not).

From what I understand, in the past she used the minority card (Native American) to further herself in some way, ( I would have to research to be sure but this is what I read) . I read somewhere, that she listed it when she got jobs at Harvard and another University.

I would guess that a very high percentage Of North Americans would have some trace of Native American, at least equal to hers.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:50 am

YZGI;1521028 wrote: If I were him I would pay her $976.63 (1/1024 of a million), I believe if my math is correct (it's probably not).

From what I understand, in the past she used the minority card (Native American) to further herself in some way, ( I would have to research to be sure but this is what I read) . I read somewhere, that she listed it when she got jobs at Harvard and another University.

I would guess that a very high percentage Of North Americans would have some trace of Native American, at least equal to hers.

From CNN on Warren's claims:

"Did it play a role in her career?

Harvard Law School in the 1990s touted Warren, then a professor in Cambridge, as being "Native American." They singled her out, Warren later acknowledged, because she had listed herself as a minority in an Association of American Law Schools directory. Critics note that she had not done that in her student applications and during her time as a teacher at the University of Texas.

Warren maintains she never furthered her career by using her heritage to gain advantage, and an in-depth investigation by the Boston Globe, published on September 1, found the same.

"At every step of her remarkable rise in the legal profession," the report read, "the people responsible for hiring her saw her as a white woman."

How did this become a political issue?

It began during Warren's 2012 Senate run, when her opponent, Brown, accused her of lying to get a leg up in her academic career.

"Professor Warren claimed that she was a Native American, a person of color," he said during a debate. "And as you can see, she's not."

Warren shot back that she had not gained any "advantage" -- a claim that has proven impossible to fact check -- and in a subsequent ad again cited family lore."

https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/29/politics ... index.html

Personally, I have some stake in this game. My son is one-eighth Native American, (or First Peoples, as his tribe of origin is Canadian.) We did some research before he entered college and found the Native American label was not generally recognized after 1/16 or in rarer cases, 1/32. I think Senator Warren's claim should be one of family pride only.

BTW, my mother considered her grandson to be Jewish, cause I am!

Besides:

"Six million Americans who describe themselves as white have some African ancestry, according to a new study. In percentage terms, that means that roughly 3.5 percent of self-described white Americans have 1 percent or more African ancestry............. Southern whites are considerably more likely to have African ancestry than whites from other regions: "European Americans with African ancestry comprise as much as 12% of European Americans from Louisiana and South Carolina and about 1 in 10 individuals in other parts of the South."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... 294bb34ce0

Doubt if most of these folks want to label themselves black.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:55 am

YZGI;1521028 wrote: If I were him I would pay her $976.63 (1/1024 of a million), I believe if my math is correct (it's probably not).I didn't notice that Trump promised $100.00 per one percent of NA heritage in her DNA. Did I miss something?

I didn't see Trump admitting that he is 46.1% president and therefore will serve at that capacity and admitting that Clinton should serve as 48.2%.

At what percentage, if any, should Trump be libel for the entire $1 million bet?

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:52 am

Ahso!;1521031 wrote: I didn't notice that Trump promised $100.00 per one percent of NA heritage in her DNA. Did I miss something?

I didn't see Trump admitting that he is 46.1% president and therefore will serve at that capacity and admitting that Clinton should serve as 48.2%.

At what percentage, if any, should Trump be libel for the entire $1 million bet?

The question is,

Do you consider her Native American being 1/1,024th? Maybe.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:58 am

YZGI;1521033 wrote: The question is,

Do you consider her Native American being 1/1,024th? Maybe.I don't have an opinion about it. I couldn't care less what she is or what you are or what I am for that matter. Why should I?

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:07 am

AnneBoleyn;1521030 wrote: From CNN on Warren's claims:

"Did it play a role in her career?

Harvard Law School in the 1990s touted Warren, then a professor in Cambridge, as being "Native American." They singled her out, Warren later acknowledged, because she had listed herself as a minority in an Association of American Law Schools directory. Critics note that she had not done that in her student applications and during her time as a teacher at the University of Texas.

Warren maintains she never furthered her career by using her heritage to gain advantage, and an in-depth investigation by the Boston Globe, published on September 1, found the same.

"At every step of her remarkable rise in the legal profession," the report read, "the people responsible for hiring her saw her as a white woman."

How did this become a political issue?

It began during Warren's 2012 Senate run, when her opponent, Brown, accused her of lying to get a leg up in her academic career.

"Professor Warren claimed that she was a Native American, a person of color," he said during a debate. "And as you can see, she's not."

Warren shot back that she had not gained any "advantage" -- a claim that has proven impossible to fact check -- and in a subsequent ad again cited family lore."

https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/29/politics ... index.html

Personally, I have some stake in this game. My son is one-eighth Native American, (or First Peoples, as his tribe of origin is Canadian.) We did some research before he entered college and found the Native American label was not generally recognized after 1/16 or in rarer cases, 1/32. I think Senator Warren's claim should be one of family pride only.

BTW, my mother considered her grandson to be Jewish, cause I am!

Besides:

"Six million Americans who describe themselves as white have some African ancestry, according to a new study. In percentage terms, that means that roughly 3.5 percent of self-described white Americans have 1 percent or more African ancestry............. Southern whites are considerably more likely to have African ancestry than whites from other regions: "European Americans with African ancestry comprise as much as 12% of European Americans from Louisiana and South Carolina and about 1 in 10 individuals in other parts of the South."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... 294bb34ce0

Doubt if most of these folks want to label themselves black.

I think a lot of those southerners would love to be labeled Black if they can get benefits for it.

She purposely claimed to be Native American, with no more lineage that she has, it's shameful at the very least. There is only one reason to do so when you are 1/1,024th Native American and that is to benefit either professionally or politically.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:23 am

YZGI;1521036 wrote: I think a lot of those southerners would love to be labeled Black if they can get benefits for it.

She purposely claimed to be Native American, with no more lineage that she has, it's shameful at the very least. There is only one reason to do so when you are 1/1,024th Native American and that is to benefit either professionally or politically.That's not accurate, if I understand you correctly.

Warren didn't know until the DNA test what percentage of NA she was. Her belief was based on family lore.

And that's the point. What anyone has ever identified as prior to DNA testing is what they were. The proof of what someone claimed was based mostly on their appearance and/or whatever documentation, like family albums or lore they could produce.

Warren's claims weren't outside the norm. It's when Trump made an issue of it, that, to her credit, she went and did the testing, and then again to her credit, she published the results, probably knowing they would cause her criticism.

At least Warren is a person who can be trusted to be honest and forthcoming.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:57 am

She's late middle age now, I think? Talking about her grandmother? We're going back 100 years then aren't we? If one of your grandparents at that time was black did you sit in the white seats or the black seats? Ok in this case we're talking Native American but doesn't the same principle apply?

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:01 am

It's interesting how Trump handles numbers. The actual higher bound estimate is 1/32. Trump aways picks the number he likes, and usually inflates it. This is a rare case where Trump actually got a number even half correct.

Also most people who take these tests are white. So there's not even a lot of data on genetic markers for native Americans. Meaning she may have additiona NA markers that are unknown to science.

As for tests themselves, Trump is very ignorant to call it junk science. I took one test (ancestry) over the summer. Ended up finding a couple people who were relatives I didn't know about. One person knew my grandmother, and others listed out people I knew from my family tree.

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:17 am

YZGI;1521028 wrote: If I were him I would pay her $976.63 (1/1024 of a million), I believe if my math is correct (it's probably not).

It's a range of percentages, so at minimum it would need to average out 1/32 and 1/1024. That comes out to at least $16,000.

I remember Trump's position was that Warren had no NA heritage. He's good at moving the goal posts and not paying people. What was the point of his boast if he could not pay?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:05 am

yaaarrrgg;1521070 wrote: Also most people who take these tests are white. So there's not even a lot of data on genetic markers for native Americans. Meaning she may have additional NA markers that are unknown to science.That's true. The data base is only as good as its participants.

It's a bit unnerving that there isn't a central data base for this, but instead, each company has it's own.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:45 am

Ahso!;1521026 wrote: I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter what percentage is what. What matters is how a person chooses to identify themselves. Outside the playground this is never an issue once we mature. Who cares how you or I identify ourselves, and why should anyone make any sort of issue of it?

That Trump decided to make this an issue without specifying a minimum percentage required and put his money where his mouth is, he should pay up. He was incorrect. He lost the bet. Sometimes 9 as a high card wins.

This commercial never fails to PO me.

Kyle | Ancestry Stories | Ancestry

When my dad was 6 years old his scoundrel dad passed away. He asked my sister to find out about that guy. My sister contacted relatives we only knew by hearsay which was the best. I went to the local Mormon Temple which is a great resource and helpful. We went full throttle and pretty much got a grip on our family.

After doing a certain amount of research the DNA was surprising. Found out I am The Last Of The Mohicans.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:05 am

I don't know about her European ancestry but if it was eastern European or Russian there is a strong possibility there will be mongol dna somewhere in her lineage, in other words first nation/native american dna is present in europeans just not from the americas.

Trump is a ginger I have seen it suggested that is neanderthal dna showing through although methinks that is a rather dunious claim to make.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:54 am

This is a pretty informative video on why NA DNA is so small. It doesn't address the fact that the line is very small for NA DNA though.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:44 pm

I've been curious why some Native American officials have been so offended by this incident, so I started reading around.

I came across this ABC article and found what I think is the issue with some of them. It's encroachment on their assets (for lack of a better word). Notice Tallbear's protectionist rhetoric. Emphasis mine.

Tallbear, an assistant professor of Native Studies at the University of Alberta, has long been one of the most strident critics of Warren's genealogy claims.

Tallbear, who recently authored "Native American DNA: Origins, Ethics, and Governance," assailed Warrenâ€™s DNA test campaign this week, contending that her strategy is a cynical one, though consistent with Tallbear's experience in recent years as gene-testing technology has evolved.

She said she objects to how Warren maintains she's not seeking tribal membership or affiliation while simultaneously touting scientific evidence about her bloodline.

"Elizabeth Warren and genome scientists ... get to have it both ways," Tallbear said in a statement pinned to her Twitter feed on Tuesday. "They know very well that the broader US public will understand a DNA test to be a true indication of Elizabeth Warren's right to claim Native American identity in some way."

"The broader US public knows nothing about tribal citizenship and histories of settler-colonial meddling in our laws. The broader US public is also investedâ€¦in making what are ultimately settler-colonial claims to all things Indigenous: our bones, blood, land, waters, and ultimately our identities."

Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin, Jr. released an equally embittered statement about Warren's press conference this week.

"Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong," Hoskin Jr. said.

"It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and legitimate uses, while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well-documented and whose heritage is proven. Senator Warren," he added, "is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage."

Tallbear said she has long been frustrated by Warren's claims.

What I read in the above quote is that the fear is that through DNA testing more people will qualify as Native American and thus will increase claims to NA assets thus diluting the membership of tribes thereby negating certain (and many) exclusive rights and claims.

This is understandable, though I think it would be helpful to articulate that more openly so that it can be more widely understood. As it is now it appears they are attacking Warren personally, which I don't think they really want to do, but feel they need to in order to forcefully defend their exclusive rights (and assets).

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:13 pm

YZGI;1521036 wrote: She purposely claimed to be Native American, with no more lineage that she has, it's shameful at the very least. There is only one reason to do so when you are 1/1,024th Native American and that is to benefit either professionally or politically.You keep saying 1/1024, but that's not accurate - it is said to be somewhere between 1/64 and 1/1024. You're using the low end I guess because you think it bolsters your argument. But it doesn't.

If EW had been born 5 generation back would she be considered more NA than she is now? If so, why?

Your argument appears to be one of quantity as in the amount of sugar in a glass of water, when a more accurate comparison would be where the water came from and the not content of additives. Lineage doesn't fade, it only becomes more distant generational-wise, because, of course, time is always moving forward. The 1/64 - 1/1024 number is more a measurement of time (in generations) then it is an amount of indigenous blood level. Yes, DNA is found in blood or other fluids, however it does not measure the properties or density of the liquid itself in this context.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:42 pm

I dare to say, assigning privilege based on genetics is a scary notion.

Jim Crow any one?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:59 pm

tude dog;1521085 wrote: I dare to say, assigning privilege based on genetics is a scary notion.Where do you get the idea that 'privilege' has anything at all to do with this discussion?

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:50 am

Ahso!;1521084 wrote: You keep saying 1/1024, but that's not accurate - it is said to be somewhere between 1/64 and 1/1024. You're using the low end I guess because you think it bolsters your argument. But it doesn't.

If EW had been born 5 generation back would she be considered more NA than she is now? If so, why?

Your argument appears to be one of quantity as in the amount of sugar in a glass of water, when a more accurate comparison would be where the water came from and the not content of additives. Lineage doesn't fade, it only becomes more distant generational-wise, because, of course, time is always moving forward. The 1/64 - 1/1024 number is more a measurement of time (in generations) then it is an amount of indigenous blood level. Yes, DNA is found in blood or other fluids, however it does not measure the properties or density of the liquid itself in this context.

I reckon that makes us all African.

Or are we all God?

God made Adam, God made Eve from Adam, I am descended from Adam and Eve, That makes me descended from God, would that not make me God, just a few generations removed?

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:37 am

It is true that ultimately we are all Africans, since that's where we ultimately come from.

Which makes racism in the US a bit absurd.

A range estimate like "6 to 10 generations" is a bit misleading though. My DNA test came back with percentages, which makes a bit more sense (to me). Meaning, it's a breakdown of where your genes actually come from.

It doesn't matter how many generations ago a gene was introduced. Genes have recessive and dominant characteristics. They are either passed or not. The dominant genes will easily survive.

For example, there's an interesting cat breed breed called "Manx." They have the personality a bit like a dog, and they don't have a tail. But you can't breed two Manx cats together (the litter will be unhealthy). You have to breed a Manx cat with a non-Manx. The resulting litter will result in "normal" cats, and Manx cats. You can easily tell the difference, because the Manx doesn't have a tail. These offspring are not 50% Manx, the hybrids are 100% Manx.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:58 am

YZGI;1521087 wrote: I reckon that makes us all African.

Or are we all God?

God made Adam, God made Eve from Adam, I am descended from Adam and Eve, That makes me descended from God, would that not make me God, just a few generations removed?Well, if any of it were true you'd be God, not through Adam (because Adam was made from clay) but through Jesus (because Jesus's spiritual dad, God The Father raped Mary).

But, yes, we're all African.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:03 am

yaaarrrgg;1521088 wrote: It is true that ultimately we are all Africans, since that's where we ultimately come from.

Which makes racism in the US a bit absurd.

A range estimate like "6 to 10 generations" is a bit misleading though. My DNA test came back with percentages, which makes a bit more sense (to me). Meaning, it's a breakdown of where your genes actually come from.

It doesn't matter how many generations ago a gene was introduced. Genes have recessive and dominant characteristics. They are either passed or not. The dominant genes will easily survive.

For example, there's an interesting cat breed breed called "Manx." They have the personality a bit like a dog, and they don't have a tail. But you can't breed two Manx cats together (the litter will be unhealthy). You have to breed a Manx cat with a non-Manx. The resulting litter will result in "normal" cats, and Manx cats. You can easily tell the difference, because the Manx doesn't have a tail. These offspring are not 50% Manx, the hybrids are 100% Manx.You're correct.

My explanation above is crude, but still accurate, I think. Even if no genes had been passed down to Warren from her Indigenous relatives, that does not negate the fact that she did have at least one in her history. It's quite possible that that could have happened.

The video I posted yesterday explains how.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:13 am

Why is it such a big deal? Americans go on about being scots american, german american irish americam, italian american african american, latin american etc etc why should claiming to be part native american be such a big deal. It's a bit monty python help help I was more oppressed than you.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:33 am

gmc;1521091 wrote: Why is it such a big deal? Americans go on about being scots american, german american irish americam, italian american african american, latin american etc etc why should claiming to be part native american be such a big deal. It's a bit monty python help help I was more oppressed than you.There's a 1M dollar donation to a charity at stake.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:19 pm

gmc;1521091 wrote: Why is it such a big deal? Americans go on about being scots american, german american irish americam, italian american african american, latin american etc etc why should claiming to be part native american be such a big deal. It's a bit monty python help help I was more oppressed than you.

Well said.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:26 pm

Ahso!;1521086 wrote: Where do you get the idea that 'privilege' has anything at all to do with this discussion?

OK, what do you call it when ones race as a deciding factor is considered when somebody wants to advance their career?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:52 pm

tude dog;1521094 wrote: OK, what do you call it when ones race as a deciding factor is considered when somebody wants to advance their career?You obviously call it 'privilege'. I can't make heads or tails of the question as it's posed. Would you like to try again?

The cartoon doesn't help either. They never do.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:06 pm

Seeing Tude Dogs U.S. Border Crossing - Has any one seen this Migrant Caravan marching through mexico on their way to the U.S. ?

There are thousands expecting to cross into the U.S. @ 7-8 thousand.

I don't mean to high jack Ahso's thread. I just caught a portion of this Migrant Caravan on our noon news.

Where's Trump - what on earth are we going to do with all these people? Again!!

Patsy

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:05 pm

Ahso!;1521095 wrote: You obviously call it 'privilege'. I can't make heads or tails of the question as it's posed. Would you like to try again?

I see this is going nowhere, but I am bored.

Something to like Jim Crow? Same concept that is hard to beat.

Ahso!;1521095 wrote: The cartoon doesn't help either. They never do.

Oh, that hurts.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:09 pm

Patsy Warnick;1521096 wrote: Seeing Tude Dogs U.S. Border Crossing - Has any one seen this Migrant Caravan marching through mexico on their way to the U.S. ?

There are thousands expecting to cross into the U.S. @ 7-8 thousand.

I don't mean to high jack Ahso's thread. I just caught a portion of this Migrant Caravan on our noon news.

Where's Trump - what on earth are we going to do with all these people? Again!!

Patsy

The whole thing is about what one's DNA means concerning heritage.

To me such a concept is contrary to human value.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:15 pm

tude dog;1521097 wrote: I see this is going nowhere, but I am bored.

Seriously, reread your question, it's senseless. Sorry, but all we have to use here are words (and cartoons for you). Learn how to put the words in an order that conveys a lucid thought or idea. That's all I'm asking for.

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:36 am

Patsy Warnick;1521096 wrote: Seeing Tude Dogs U.S. Border Crossing - Has any one seen this Migrant Caravan marching through mexico on their way to the U.S. ?

There are thousands expecting to cross into the U.S. @ 7-8 thousand.

I don't mean to high jack Ahso's thread. I just caught a portion of this Migrant Caravan on our noon news.

Where's Trump - what on earth are we going to do with all these people? Again!!

Patsy

I think the number is somewhere around 4000, but even so, most of them will likely find something else to do along the way.

We have a lot bigger problems in this country than a few thousand immigrants wandering through Mexico.

But Trump and company would have you fretting over them than watching his gut the US economy.

If you want to be really scared, you should probably go read the Reuters feed.

Correction: So, it's grown in the last day or so.

https://apnews.com/999ba27e4c89481ab7cc4e5becdab987

Still, a few thousand people in Mexico are a lot less of a threat than what is going on in the rest of the world, I think.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1MX0E7

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:59 am

LarsMac;1521100 wrote: I think the number is somewhere around 4000, but even so, most of them will likely find something else to do along the way.

We have a lot bigger problems in this country than a few thousand immigrants wandering through Mexico.

But Trump and company would have you fretting over them than watching his gut the US economy.

If you want to be really scared, you should probably go read the Reuters feed.

Correction: So, it's grown in the last day or so.

Still, a few thousand people in Mexico are a lot less of a threat than what is going on in the rest of the world, I think.

[url=https://apnews.com/999ba27e4c89481ab7cc4e5becdab987]Weary migrants still far from reaching US border

It is a real tear-jerker story, truly sad. By itself is more a story of how we have lost control of our own borders and nothing said about the cost to us citizens who pay for such uncontrolled relentless migration. A mob approaches, illegal immigration continues as usual.

OH, BTW, who first started those poor folk walking and just who are they?

Trump's missile treaty pullout could escalate tension with China

Another news story to choose from which grabs one's attention from what truly matters.

Post by **LarsMac** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:05 pm

tude dog;1521101 wrote: Weary migrants still far from reaching US border

It is a real tear-jerker story, truly sad. By itself is more a story of how we have lost control of our own borders and nothing said about the cost to us citizens who pay for such uncontrolled relentless migration. A mob approaches, illegal immigration continues as usual.
The point of the story was that this "mob" is very far from our border, with a very long way to go, and hardly a threat to our existence.

tude dog;1521101 wrote: OH, BTW, who first started those poor folk walking and just who are they?
Had you actually read the story, you might know some answers to those questions.

tude dog;1521101 wrote: Trump's missile treaty pullout could escalate tension with China

Another news story to choose from which grabs one's attention from what truly matters.

True, There are far more pressing matters that our dear president might find to occupy his time, if he was truly concerned with accomplishing anything useful. Though somehow, stirring up China and Russia seems that it might rate a bit higher on the scale than a bunch of poor people wandering through Mexico.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:56 pm

LarsMac;1521102 wrote: The point of the story was that this "mob" is very far from our border, with a very long way to go, and hardly a threat to our existence.

Had you actually read the story, you might know some answers to those questions.

Admittedly I did not read it carefully. Gave it a second look and I didn't find what I was looking for. I'll just take it that it was all just spontaneous, or with little or no organization.

Sure it is far away and by itself is no threat to our existence and only came up because of the coming elections. It wasn't all that long ago a similar mass assault came to our borders. It has been a problem for seemingly forever. Not a small problem for many of us who live(d) in border states.

I really hate picking on our southern border illegals as many flies into our country just to overstay their visas.

LarsMac;1521102 wrote: True, There are far more pressing matters that our dear president might find to occupy his time, if he was truly concerned with accomplishing anything useful. Though somehow, stirring up China and Russia seems that it might rate a bit higher on the scale than a bunch of poor people wandering through Mexico.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:07 pm

tude dog;1521103 wrote: Admittedly I did not read it carefully. Gave it a second look and I didn't find what I was looking for.Sometimes information leaks out of us.

Try reading objectively.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:13 pm

Ahso!;1521104 wrote: Sometimes information leaks out of us.

Try reading objectively.

Oh great swami, just what is it?

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:18 pm

I'm just trying to be helpful.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:45 pm

tude dog;1521105 wrote: Oh great swami, just what is it?I'd ask you what you mean, but I don't want to go through that again.

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:49 pm

As for the migrants, Trump likes to complain, but his "solutions" are only going to make problems worse. He wants to cut off aid to Honduras as a result of people fleeing that country. Of course, people are fleeing because of gangs and poverty. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict that cutting off aid will probably increase lawlessness, poverty, and gang activity. Which will just translate into more people fleeing. Which unfortunately course helps Trump politically. The worse of a job he does, the more he can complain. It's always someone else's fault!

The sad irony of course is that these people landed on the continent long before white settlers. As for Americans, who's the real invader? At least 9 million Native Americans were killed because of colonization. It was genocide.

I do wonder if Warren misread Trump on his racial attacks. Trump's "Pocahontas" insult is a racial insult. Warren already established she never got any jobs because of her heritage. And why would anyone doubt her parents told her there were Native Americans in her family tree? Is Trump an expert on her family tree, or would she be? It's a bit his 7 year attack on Obama for not being a "real" American. Whatever "real" means... He similarly promised Obama $5 million if he could prove "it" (after Obama already released his long from birth certificate).

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:12 am

yaaarrrgg;1521113 wrote: As for the migrants, Trump likes to complain, but his "solutions" are only going to make problems worse. He wants to cut off aid to Honduras as a result of people fleeing that country. Of course, people are fleeing because of gangs and poverty. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict that cutting off aid will probably increase lawlessness, poverty, and gang activity. Which will just translate into more people fleeing. Which unfortunately course helps Trump politically. The worse of a job he does, the more he can complain. It's always someone else's fault!

It should be obvious whatever money we are sending are of no help to the people. How about an accounting of how the money is used?

yaaarrrgg;1521113 wrote: The sad irony of course is that these people landed on the continent long before white settlers. As for Americans, who's the real invader? At least 9 million Native Americans were killed because of colonization. It was genocide.

History is what it is, but Hondurans are not native of Texas.

yaaarrrgg;1521113 wrote: I do wonder if Warren misread Trump on his racial attacks. Trump's "Pocahontas" insult is a racial insult. Warren already established she never got any jobs because of her heritage. And why would anyone doubt her parents told her there were Native Americans in her family tree?

I think this is an interesting article on the claim.

The Elizabeth Warren Native American ancestry debate, explained

yaaarrrgg;1521113 wrote: Is Trump an expert on her family tree, or would she be? It's a bit his 7 year attack on Obama for not being a "real" American. Whatever "real" means... He similarly promised Obama $5 million if he could prove "it" (after Obama already released his long from birth certificate).

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:42 pm

tude dog;1521134 wrote: It should be obvious whatever money we are sending are of no help to the people. How about an accounting of how the money is used?

History is what it is, but Hondurans are not native of Texas.

I think this is an interesting article on the claim.

The Elizabeth Warren Native American ancestry debate, explained

My family has a record of a Cherokee in the family back in the 1800s. We looked into it, and I think that it amounts to 3-4% Cherokee for my generation. Apparently a distant ancestor was a soldier assigned to the escort troops who marched the Cherokee to Oklahoma Territory. He then married one of the young Cherokee girls and lived with them on the reservation for a time.

The Cherokee accept a 25% lineage for membership in the tribe.

Warren's 7-10% is not enough. But it dues support her claim to having Native blood in her lineage.

All this does is scramble the conversation and distract from her intended work. But, of course, His Orangeness will seize the opportunity to distract the public from whatever message she might offer. It will likely taint any hopes she might still have from a run at the White House in the next few years.

Oh, well,

Another One Bites the Dust

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:29 pm

Blood heritage is a primitive concept.

Reminds me of some dau in 7th grade a teacher asked the class of their ancestry. A number mentioned Indian, but I was most impressed when one proudly announced COWBOY.

What does your blood mean as opposed to your culture?

A most stupid commercial.

Ancestry.com

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:00 pm

tude dog;1521140 wrote: Blood heritage is a primitive concept.

Reminds me of some dau in 7th grade a teacher asked the class of their ancestry. A number mentioned Indian, but I was most impressed when one proudly announced COWBOY.

What does your blood mean as opposed to your culture?

A most stupid commercial.

Ancestry.com

I met a guy yesterday at Physical Therapy. He is from London. We were talking about all the DNA and mixed cultures here in the US, and he claimed he doesn't have any of that mixed stuff in his DNA. He is 100% English.

I've been pondering on that for a while.

Seems to me that the only region invaded more that England throughout history was, perhaps, Poland.

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:27 pm

tude dog;1521134 wrote:

History is what it is, but Hondurans are not native of Texas.

I bet they've been there before. Their ancestors would have crossed from Siberia to Alaska, and then migrated slowly down the continent, populating North America, through Texas, and then down into Central America.

The ones that stayed behind in North America were called "Indians" or "Native Americans." This group was largely wiped out by European colonization and disease.

The irony is: now the white immigrants in North America think these folks are an invasive species, though if anything, that honor unfortunately falls to us.

Right now they are just walking in a giant circle.

All this means, is Warren is more of a "real American" than Trump.