Calling all Socialist, Communists, whatever

[Galbally]

Far Rider wrote: You said "weapon"

Cloud seeding is not a weapon... Im not even gonna post what i really wanna say or I really will be banned.

*Loads shotgun* Just what the hell are you, a salesman?:-2


Easy tiger, I would miss you if you got banned, its good to have an uncomplicated hawk on the boards. Don't forget a shotgun doesn't win arguments, it just ends them. Actually a weather weapon would be great, I would aim it at California so that all those movie stars could experience Irish weather for a few decades, that would teach them to stop carrying on.

[LilacDragon]

Hmm, Ted Lang - wasn't he the bartender on "The Loveboat"?

As for White Phosphorus - isn't that like a smoke bomb - used to cover troop movements and disorient the enemy? Hardly on the same level as napalm.

[LilacDragon]

Far Rider wrote: Incindiary devices... high heat ,melts metal, kills everything inside closed areas, also burns oxygen extremely fast in closed areas, like bunkers, so that if you survive the initial onset of burning, you die from suffocation.


Guess it is a good thing I'm not in charge of lobbing them around, huh.

[ComfortablyNumb]

Far Rider wrote: Hey IM in California!

hahahahahaha....

This guys a nut, but I suppose it gives me something to aim at!


LOL. Cat among pigeons - great!

Actually I'm a female artist with a vivid imagination! Doesn't mean there's no truth to any theory.

[gmc]

posted by galbally

Easy tiger, I would miss you if you got banned, its good to have an uncomplicated hawk on the boards. Don't forget a shotgun doesn't win arguments, it just ends them. Actually a weather weapon would be great, I would aim it at California so that all those movie stars could experience Irish weather for a few decades, that would teach them to stop carrying on.


Might work you know, if under the influence of Irish weather they all take up Irish dancing the rythmic vibration might set off an earthquake. Actually I hear that in honour of Arnie's Austrian roots his supporters in California now dress in lederhosen of an evening but I'm not sure Michael Moore is a reliable source.

[Galbally]

Well going on what they passed off as Irish Dancing on "Titanic" It wouldn't surprise me at all. BTW, is it snowing in Scotland yet?

[Wolverine]

Far Rider wrote:

I'd like to say at this point if everybody were just like me we'd all get along fine!:)
if everyone was like me... we'd all be a bunch of horny, over-worked, sleepless, deviants.

makes for a fun weekend, but i wouldn't want to live there.

[BTS]

ComfortablyNumb wrote: If weather control makes you laugh, you obviously don't live in a tornado/cyclone area.



'THE UN CONVENTION ON THE PROHIBITION OF MILITARY OR

ANY OTHER HOSTILE USE OF ENVIRONMENTAL MODIFICATION

TECHNIQUES





UN Convention






Wasssss the UN say about the sob's blowing up innocent people? How about be-headings? Any PROHIBITIONS there?



But they make a call on HOSTILE USE OF ENVIRONMENTAL MODIFICATION

TECHNIQUES.............



SCREW the UN................. They should have backed the removal of GaDDAAM Insane in the beginning and this war would be over NOW............. Not Later...............



Wassss you think about that WEATHER report????????

[nvalleyvee]

Do you know what kind of environmental weapons Saddam used against his people? He drained the marshes that were essential to some of his people - thus forcing them out of the lands they had been on for centuries. He wanted them OUT and GONE from his country. There is some repair going on and restoration will be slow.

He used chemical weapons against his people - if that isn't environmental I don't know what the hell is. You kill ANYTHING in the environment and it qualifies as an environmental weapon - people INCLUDED!!!!!

[nvalleyvee]

I just wanted to clarify my last post.



The Mesopotamian marshlands of southern Iraq - a rich centre of biodiversity devastated by damming and draining under Saddam Hussein - are showing renewed signs of life.

However, the most important area for continued recovery - the northwest Al-Hawizeh marsh - faces a new threat as the Iranian government plans to build a dyke on its border with Iraq, diverting water away from recovering land.

"It will cut off a vast amount of water and remove some of the recovering marshes," says Curtis Richardson of Duke University, US, who is monitoring the recovery with colleagues from the University of Waterloo in Canada, the University of Basra in Iraq and the Iraq Foundation.

Richardson told New Scientist that maintaining the Al-Hawizeh marsh will crucial to reseeding other areas of the marshland. He says it would be impossible to restore the marshlands entirely but thinks 30% could be salvaged. "The ecological consequences of not restoring the marshland would be enormous," he warns.

'Garden of Eden'

Lush wetlands once covered 15,000 square kilometres of southern Iraq, between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. The fabled marshlands are thought by some biblical scholars to have been the location of the Garden of Eden and The Flood. The lands were home to millions of native and migratory birds, as well as Marsh Arabs, who had fished and grazed water buffalo in its waters for more than 5000 years.

But more than 90% of the area was destroyed in the 1990s by the diversion of water for agricultural irrigation, as well as deliberate draining ordered by Saddam Hussein in retaliation for the Marsh Arab's uprising after the first Gulf War.

Shortly after end of Saddam's regime in 2003, local Marsh Arabs returned to the area and destroyed dams in an effort to reflood the region (reported in New Scientist in October 2003). Around 20% of the marshland has now been reflooded.

Smooth-coated otters

Richardson told the American Association for the Advancement of Science meeting in Washington, DC, US, that these efforts have just begun to breathe life back into the marshes. The flooding has brought the return of thousands of birds to the marshlands, as well as smooth-coated otters, Curtis says.

"Immediately after the reflooding we saw just a dozen birds in the marshes," Richardson says. "A year later, there were hundreds and now they are talking about many thousands."

Barry Warner, a plant ecologist from the University of Waterloo in Canada, adds that many plants have begun to thrive once again in the region. "We're getting a formidable response in the newly reflooded areas," he says.

But the scientists remain concerned that indiscriminate reflooding could do more harm than good and may cause lasting environmental damage. For example, areas where there is no outlet for the water are becoming increasingly saline, through evaporation of the water. This makes them inhospitable to plant and animal life

[gmc]

posted by galbally

Well going on what they passed off as Irish Dancing on "Titanic" It wouldn't surprise me at all. BTW, is it snowing in Scotland yet?


Oh yes, enough to cause a few minor shunts and bring most of edinburgh and the M8 to a shuddering halt.

posted by BTS

SCREW the UN................. They should have backed the removal of GaDDAAM Insane in the beginning and this war would be over NOW............. Not Later...............


Actually i think he should have been removed by coalition forces at the end of the first gulf war and the iraquis left to sort out their own country without him. Nor do i think the west should have encouraged rebellion and then stood by and watch Saddam attack his own people. But then the west shouldn't have helped him in power in the first place or sold him the means to mak WMD.

[Accountable]

gmc wrote: Actually i think he should have been removed by coalition forces at the end of the first gulf war and the iraquis left to sort out their own country without him. Nor do i think the west should have encouraged rebellion and then stood by and watch Saddam attack his own people. But then the west shouldn't have helped him in power in the first place or sold him the means to mak WMD.
That's that pesky law of unintended consequences. Any shortsighted, Machiavelian actions are gonna bite you in the butt later on.

[gmc]

posted by accountable

That's that pesky law of unintended consequences. Any shortsighted, Machiavelian actions are gonna bite you in the butt later on.


If you were writing a history of western foreign policy over the last 30-40 years that would be a good closing closing paragraph and conclusion. I think we should do away with all 20-30-etc year moratoria on secret documents, maybe if politicians knew they were going to be called to account in the next few years they would think beyond the next election.

[ComfortablyNumb]

Far Rider wrote: Napalm... God I love that smell!

Youre off your rocker if you think weve used napalm in Iraq.

Weather control weapons ROFLMAO:wah:


You have your head in the sand my friend.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/112505I.shtml

A News Revolution Has Begun

By John Pilger

t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Friday 25 November 2005

The Indian writer Vandana Shiva has called for an "insurrection of subjugated knowledge." The insurrection is well under way. In trying to make sense of a dangerous world, millions of people are turning away from the traditional sources of news and information and toward the world wide web, convinced that mainstream journalism is the voice of rampant power. The great scandal of Iraq has accelerated this. In the United States, several senior broadcasters have confessed that had they challenged and exposed the lies told about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, instead of amplifying and justifying them, the invasion might not have happened.

Such honesty has yet to cross the Atlantic. Since it was founded in 1922, the BBC has served to protect every British establishment during war and civil unrest. "We" never traduce and never commit great crimes. So the omission of shocking events in Iraq - the destruction of cities, the slaughter of innocent people and the farce of a puppet government - is routinely applied. A study by the Cardiff School of Journalism found that 90 per cent of the BBC's references to Saddam Hussein's WMDs suggested he possessed them and that "spin from the British and US governments was successful in framing the coverage." The same "spin" has ensured, until now, that the use of banned weapons by the Americans and British in Iraq has been suppressed as news.

An admission by the US State Department on 10 November that its forces had used white phosphorus in Fallujah followed "rumours on the internet," according to the BBC's Newsnight. There were no rumours. There was first-class investigative work that ought to shame well-paid journalists. Mark Kraft of insomnia.livejournal.com found the evidence in the March-April 2005 issue of Field Artillery magazine and other sources. He was supported by the work of film-maker Gabriele Zamparini, founder of the excellent site, thecatsdream.com.

Last May, David Edwards and David Cromwell of medialens.org posted a revealing correspondence with Helen Boaden, the BBC's director of news. They had asked her why the BBC had remained silent on known atrocities committed by the Americans in Fallujah. She replied, "Our correspondent in Fallujah at the time [of the US attack], Paul Wood, did not report any of these things because he did not see any of these things." It is a statement to savour. Wood was "embedded" with the Americans. He interviewed none of the victims of American atrocities nor un-embedded journalists. He not only missed the Americans' use of white phosphorus, which they now admit, he reported nothing of the use of another banned weapon, napalm. Thus, BBC viewers were unaware of the fine words of Colonel James Alles, commander of the US Marine Air Group II. "We napalmed both those bridge approaches," he said. "Unfortunately, there were people there ... you could see them in the cockpit video ... It's no great way to die. The generals love napalm. It has a big psychological effect."

Once the unacknowledged work of Mark Kraft and Gabriele Zamparini had appeared in the Guardian and Independent and forced the Americans to come clean about white phosphorous, Wood was on Newsnight describing their admission as "a public relations disaster for the US." This echoed Menzies Campbell of the Liberal-Democrats, perhaps the most quoted politician since Gladstone, who said, "The use of this weapon may technically have been legal, but its effects are such that it will hand a propaganda victory to the insurgency."

The BBC and most of the British political and media establishment invariably cast such a horror as a public relations problem while minimizing the crushing of a city the size of Leeds, the killing and maiming of countless men, women and children, the expulsion of thousands and the denial of medical supplies, food and water - a major war crime.

The evidence is voluminous, provided by refugees, doctors, human rights groups and a few courageous foreigners whose work appears only on the internet. In April last year, Jo Wilding, a young British law student, filed a series of extraordinary eye-witness reports from inside the city. So fine are they that I have included one of her pieces in an anthology of the best investigative journalism.* Her film, "A Letter to the Prime Minister," made inside Fallujah with Julia Guest, has not been shown on British television. In addition, Dahr Jamail, an independent Lebanese-American journalist who has produced some of the best frontline reporting I have read, described all the "things" the BBC failed to "see." His interviews with doctors, local officials and families are on the internet, together with the work of those who have exposed the widespread use of uranium-tipped shells, another banned weapon, and cluster bombs, which Campbell would say are "technically legal." Try these web sites: dahrjamail.com, zmag.org, antiwar.com, truthout.org, indymedia.org.uk, internationalclearinghouse.info, counterpunch.org, voicesuk.org. There are many more.

"Each word," wrote Jean-Paul Sartre, "has an echo. So does each silence."

Tell Me No Lies: Investigative Journalism and Its Triumphs, edited by John Pilger, is published by Vintage.

[snapback]30445[/snapback]

[Galbally]

A News Revolution Has Begun

By John Pilger

t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Friday 25 November 2005

The Indian writer Vandana Shiva has called for an "insurrection of subjugated knowledge." The insurrection is well under way. In trying to make sense of a dangerous world, millions of people are turning away from the traditional sources of news and information and toward the world wide web, convinced that mainstream journalism is the voice of rampant power. The great scandal of Iraq has accelerated this. In the United States, several senior broadcasters have confessed that had they challenged and exposed the lies told about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, instead of amplifying and justifying them, the invasion might not have happened.

Like what kind of revolution? One where we let middle-class angst-ridden intellectuals instruct us on how to think and act? Invariably these people clamour about freedom of information and free thinking, until such thinking or information doesn't suit them either. I think the Iraq war is stupid, not because its immoral (all war is ultimately immoral), but that its just a badly thought out, pointless, wasteful war, that is using up resources that could be used better elsewhere, frankly I am being honest I couldn't give a monkeys about Iraqis, I'm not happy that people are being killed in Iraq of course, but ultimately it doesn't keep me awake at night. Neither does John Pilger BTW, Pilger is a great writer and has done some great work on the middle-east and the Wests' role in its problems, but he also an iconoclast, a man who is obviously intelligent enough to understand the realities of power and poltics, but uses a moral pose to present what is ultimately a completely political agenda.

It irks me when people try and shock us by informing us that war is hell, and that our governements do things that are morally questionable during wars, really? God I thought it was all about being nice and all that and being helpful to old ladies, silly me, I must stop reading the Guardian! Anyone who is really shocked that innocent people are getting killed in Iraq is an idiot, that happens in war, what you need to ensure is that you do not find yourself in a war fought on dodgy reasoning that you cannot either fully win or end quickly so that less innocent people get killed. That may seem a bit callous, but thats the reality of it. I find it interesting that left wing intellectuals seem to think that if only their agenda was the only one being mass marketed by the media that everyone would turn into mother Theresa and that there would be no more wars, or killing, or traffic violations, or that the only reason that nasty things happen in the world is that white western people are too stupid or lazy to do anything about it (thats reverse imperialism and utopianism), this type of idea is both naive and cynical at the same time, its purile. You can keep the "revolution of hidden knowlege" if you don't mind as I'm sure that the b*stards it would throw up would be much worse than the b*stards we have now.

[ComfortablyNumb]

LOL

Haven't read all of the stuff yet but the first two - Military just denies everything as one would expect. They should update that page since the government are now admitting it.

The sources are the official version of everything so of course they're going to paint themselves as heroes. There are plenty of news organisations that disagree with the official line and are coming out and saying so.

The News (reality) that should be broadcast is coming from people actually there and not the spin doctors. A lot of the soldiers are really disenchanted at fighting an illegal war with lots of dirty tricks just to pad out Bush's oil stash.

If the reporters are telling the world stuff that Bush is trying to hide you expect it to be on an official site? Only when enough people know it that he has to fess up.

Aren't the U.S supposed to be liberating the Iraqis from Saddam's evil clutches? Well whoopee, the job's done so get the hell out and leave them alone. History tells us that most terrorist acts are against invading nations so Bush can best protect his people from terrorism by leaving.

[Accountable]

So basically, ComfortablyNumb agrees with the original post.

[ComfortablyNumb]

Do I agree with the first post? Hmm.

Gov't should be accountable. People should try to elect responsible leaders. (I say 'try' because the present administration owns the companies and people who put in and oversee the voting machines so even when they lose, they win).

Gov't is owned by corporations so it's agenda will always be pro industry and therefore less humanitarian (very often the needs of corporations clash with the needs of people/environment). Can't see how this is going to change so long as anyone rich/ruthless enough can buy the White House.

Corporations want to make money, they are not going to do anything to downgrade their profit margins. Politicians have a lot of fingers in a lot of pies and make laws to benefit their backers.

People generally aren't stupid, just loyal. Gov't exploits this fact.

The military is a wonderful, patriotic bunch of cannon fodder for the Gov't to send to be slaughtered in the cause of whatever money spinning/macho posturing is on their agenda. They obey orders but die and take the blame when things go wrong.

[Accountable]

Far Rider wrote: *rips tape off the mouths - quickly, so as not to hurt too much*