OK, I will be the first to admit that I know very little about professional football. I will also admit that not 30 seconds of my Thanksgiving day was spent watching football on t.v. I hear the Lions might have done better if they had just stayed home.
What I don't understand is why are they only firing the coach? Seems to me, the man doesn't set foot on the field, so why is it that some of these guys that are "playing" (unless you happen to watch - then it seems like they are out to lunch) aren't out of a job too?
And who in the world gets to take $11.5 million dollars to the bank when they get fired? Heck, I think I could coach the Lions if I could take, oh, a third of that home when they fire me!
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
I'm not a big pro football expert either, Lilac, and I also fail to see what good will come of firing Mariuchi. (Did I spell that right??)
I mean really, when something goes wrong with my car's engine, what's the first thing I do? Run right out and replace the tires, right?? This move made no sense to me. Mid-season especially. Talk about a morale-killer.
I mean really, when something goes wrong with my car's engine, what's the first thing I do? Run right out and replace the tires, right?? This move made no sense to me. Mid-season especially. Talk about a morale-killer.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
If nothing works on the team its the coaches job to fix it. Move players, remove players, tweak, tinker, hire, fire. He is the engine. If the engine is broken, replace it. His biggest mistake according to the owner was that the talent they spent money on werent getting developed for the future. You have to build....thats the coaches job. If an assembly plant cant get their product out, the boss has to go.
I AM AWESOME MAN
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
I understand the whole "the buck stops here" thing but why in the world does he get the money? Seems to me like if he is that bad at the job, his severance package should be a tad smaller.
Sandi
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
LilacDragon wrote: I understand the whole "the buck stops here" thing but why in the world does he get the money? Seems to me like if he is that bad at the job, his severance package should be a tad smaller.
They have to honor his contract.
They have to honor his contract.
I AM AWESOME MAN
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
Well, Nomad, honestly, I know all of this but doesn't it just seem wrong to give someone 11.5 million dollars when you boot them out of your building because they suck at their job? I mean, maybe if the contracts were written a bit differently, they could have used some of that 11.5 million dollars to - I don't know - pay guys who have talent and could win a couple of games?
Sandi
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
John Madden thinnks Mooch is a really nice guy and a good coach. He
said as much on MNF.
I'd rather see someone like Mariucci on my sidelines than a you-know-what
like Al Cowher. He could give Far/Grinch a run for his money.
Give the guy a break, sometimes the coaches aren't allowed to do what
they want by the owners/management and that really hampers their
efforts.
Niners are a prime example. Probably 2-14 again this season. It ain't
always the coach's fault. Throw money at a young quarterback and
still not be assured of ANYTHING.
said as much on MNF.
I'd rather see someone like Mariucci on my sidelines than a you-know-what
like Al Cowher. He could give Far/Grinch a run for his money.
Give the guy a break, sometimes the coaches aren't allowed to do what
they want by the owners/management and that really hampers their
efforts.
Niners are a prime example. Probably 2-14 again this season. It ain't
always the coach's fault. Throw money at a young quarterback and
still not be assured of ANYTHING.
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
Then they need to fire the quarterback! And anyone else that doesn't play to potential. I know when I ran a business that is what I did.
I guess the part that cheeses me is that these guys make big money and have contracts that say that even if they don't do the job they were hired to do they will still get big bucks.
I guess the part that cheeses me is that these guys make big money and have contracts that say that even if they don't do the job they were hired to do they will still get big bucks.
Sandi
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
I absolutely know what you mean. And the really sad part of it is the
fans keep paying, and paying, and paying...
fans keep paying, and paying, and paying...
-
LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
LilacDragon wrote: Well, Nomad, honestly, I know all of this but doesn't it just seem wrong to give someone 11.5 million dollars when you boot them out of your building because they suck at their job? I mean, maybe if the contracts were written a bit differently, they could have used some of that 11.5 million dollars to - I don't know - pay guys who have talent and could win a couple of games?
anyone willing to give a lengthy contract to a coach without knowing for sure that he is worth it deserves to lose their money.
anyone willing to give a lengthy contract to a coach without knowing for sure that he is worth it deserves to lose their money.
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
I dont want to be one to gloat about my favorite teams success(unless instigated from insulting scepticism), but I'll give you an example of what a good coach can do.
Marvin Lewis has taken over a 2-14 Cincinnati Bengals team from Dick Lebeau in 2002, while improving that teams success drastically to 8-8 the following year. After going 8-8 again in 2004 the Cincinnati Bengals find themselves in what is now a season long contention for their first AFC North division title in 15 years, at the same time being considered having arguably the best offense in the NFL by many top NFL anylists. Marvin has made major changes to the Bengals concidering that there are only 13 of 53 players remaining from the 2-14 team he has taken over from 2002.
Coaches get together with the teams General Manager and discuss what prospects they wish to recruit to make an attempt to better their team, while the coach usually has the final say in who they would like to join their team. When players recruited by the coach do not perform at a professional standard (Joey Harrington) etc. the coach is blamed for not having the recruitment skills neccassary to improve a professional sports team, as well as the leadership mentality in being able to ready his team to win from week to week, which shows from the players lack of interest on the feild when faced with having to overcome a significant deficit. Which also proves why most NFL anylists are arguing why the general manager was not fired as well or why the GM was not fired while giving Mariuci a stay of exacution(which in my opinion was due to salary cap issues, therefore the coach being let go to free up more money)
Having said that, the coach is very important to the teams personality, preparation, and willingness to lay it on the line when need be. Thus being the difference between a winning and losing franchise.
Marvin Lewis has taken over a 2-14 Cincinnati Bengals team from Dick Lebeau in 2002, while improving that teams success drastically to 8-8 the following year. After going 8-8 again in 2004 the Cincinnati Bengals find themselves in what is now a season long contention for their first AFC North division title in 15 years, at the same time being considered having arguably the best offense in the NFL by many top NFL anylists. Marvin has made major changes to the Bengals concidering that there are only 13 of 53 players remaining from the 2-14 team he has taken over from 2002.
Coaches get together with the teams General Manager and discuss what prospects they wish to recruit to make an attempt to better their team, while the coach usually has the final say in who they would like to join their team. When players recruited by the coach do not perform at a professional standard (Joey Harrington) etc. the coach is blamed for not having the recruitment skills neccassary to improve a professional sports team, as well as the leadership mentality in being able to ready his team to win from week to week, which shows from the players lack of interest on the feild when faced with having to overcome a significant deficit. Which also proves why most NFL anylists are arguing why the general manager was not fired as well or why the GM was not fired while giving Mariuci a stay of exacution(which in my opinion was due to salary cap issues, therefore the coach being let go to free up more money)
Having said that, the coach is very important to the teams personality, preparation, and willingness to lay it on the line when need be. Thus being the difference between a winning and losing franchise.
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
Nice post, KS.
Would like to ask you then what you think about the situation a few years
back with arguably one of the premier NFL coaches, Bill Walsh, who hailed
young QB Jim Druckenmiller as the Niners hope for QB of the future. Seems
to me Walsh of all people would "know" a player, at least as much as
anyone around at that time. And look where poor Druck has ended up,
pretty much a nobody 3rd stringer, at best. Not in the top 10 for any
stats.
So, at what point do you call it all a crap shoot? You take someone with
a lifetime's experience on what to do, throw a bunch of money at a guy
and give it your best shot... and then nada!
Really be interested in your thoughts. (Anybody else, feel free to jump
in here, too!)
Would like to ask you then what you think about the situation a few years
back with arguably one of the premier NFL coaches, Bill Walsh, who hailed
young QB Jim Druckenmiller as the Niners hope for QB of the future. Seems
to me Walsh of all people would "know" a player, at least as much as
anyone around at that time. And look where poor Druck has ended up,
pretty much a nobody 3rd stringer, at best. Not in the top 10 for any
stats.
So, at what point do you call it all a crap shoot? You take someone with
a lifetime's experience on what to do, throw a bunch of money at a guy
and give it your best shot... and then nada!
Really be interested in your thoughts. (Anybody else, feel free to jump
in here, too!)
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
valerie wrote: Nice post, KS.
Would like to ask you then what you think about the situation a few years
back with arguably one of the premier NFL coaches, Bill Walsh, who hailed
young QB Jim Druckenmiller as the Niners hope for QB of the future. Seems
to me Walsh of all people would "know" a player, at least as much as
anyone around at that time. And look where poor Druck has ended up,
pretty much a nobody 3rd stringer, at best. Not in the top 10 for any
stats.
So, at what point do you call it all a crap shoot? You take someone with
a lifetime's experience on what to do, throw a bunch of money at a guy
and give it your best shot... and then nada!
Really be interested in your thoughts. (Anybody else, feel free to jump
in here, too!)
Well I think that it is hard to scout players in college, due mainly because the talent level is extremely sub par compared to the NFL. College teams consist of one to two so called super stars (on a collegiate level) compared to the NFL, in which the entire team is the best of the best. Therefore its easy to see ones success in college and assume that he can continue his success on a proffessional level. Having said that I think that one bad apple on a stat sheet as impressive as Bill Walshs' can be overlooked by anyones prespective.
As far as Mariuci taking over an already stacked 49'ers team and reaping the benifits of a master mind such as Bill Walsh, I could have coached that team and had as good of a record, But thats not to say that Mariuci isn't a good coach. I really couldnt tell you if Mariuci is a good coach or not, but one thing is for dam# sure--anyone who can take a 2-14 team and turn them into a playoff caliber team in less than 3 years is a good coach. If Marvin can do so, so can Mariuci--yet he hasnt, therefore he is gone to make way for another bigtime college coach out of Miami, Notre Dame, and in my opinion the next NFL coach out of Ohio State--Jim Tressel.(not trying to be biased from Ohio)
Also Bill Walsh was a great coach, but I dont think him inching along behind a walker would be the best image for San Fran.,or anywhere else for that matter.
Would like to ask you then what you think about the situation a few years
back with arguably one of the premier NFL coaches, Bill Walsh, who hailed
young QB Jim Druckenmiller as the Niners hope for QB of the future. Seems
to me Walsh of all people would "know" a player, at least as much as
anyone around at that time. And look where poor Druck has ended up,
pretty much a nobody 3rd stringer, at best. Not in the top 10 for any
stats.
So, at what point do you call it all a crap shoot? You take someone with
a lifetime's experience on what to do, throw a bunch of money at a guy
and give it your best shot... and then nada!
Really be interested in your thoughts. (Anybody else, feel free to jump
in here, too!)
Well I think that it is hard to scout players in college, due mainly because the talent level is extremely sub par compared to the NFL. College teams consist of one to two so called super stars (on a collegiate level) compared to the NFL, in which the entire team is the best of the best. Therefore its easy to see ones success in college and assume that he can continue his success on a proffessional level. Having said that I think that one bad apple on a stat sheet as impressive as Bill Walshs' can be overlooked by anyones prespective.
As far as Mariuci taking over an already stacked 49'ers team and reaping the benifits of a master mind such as Bill Walsh, I could have coached that team and had as good of a record, But thats not to say that Mariuci isn't a good coach. I really couldnt tell you if Mariuci is a good coach or not, but one thing is for dam# sure--anyone who can take a 2-14 team and turn them into a playoff caliber team in less than 3 years is a good coach. If Marvin can do so, so can Mariuci--yet he hasnt, therefore he is gone to make way for another bigtime college coach out of Miami, Notre Dame, and in my opinion the next NFL coach out of Ohio State--Jim Tressel.(not trying to be biased from Ohio)
Also Bill Walsh was a great coach, but I dont think him inching along behind a walker would be the best image for San Fran.,or anywhere else for that matter.
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
KS, As always your right on with your knowledge of the game.
Being from the land of "CHARGERS" fans I know a bit about the growing pains a team can go through if they don't have the right coach. Look at the "CHARGES" under the coaching of Marty S. we are awesome and still improving with every game. For years we were awful bad coaching, bad players, no team work it all just reflects on the Owners, Managers and the Coach if they work well together the team will work well on the field.
I alway look back and cringe at the $$$$$$MILLIONS we paid that IDIOT Ryan Leaf to quaterback.. right out of college not proven a damn thing we sign him for 19 Million what a dumb dumb mistake, and we paid dearly for years because of it.
A team has to jive on all levels to be a good team, on and off the field and each coach, owner, manager and all the players are responsible for that...
Contracts and what we pay coaches, managers, and players is a whole other side of the game that has me a little angry...!! Contract are way to high for players that have never played an NFL game.. to damn risky.. and as far as I can see most of the ones recuited for high signon bonuses never make it. Now granted there are lots that do but percentage wise I say the fans lose..!! :-5 :-5
Being from the land of "CHARGERS" fans I know a bit about the growing pains a team can go through if they don't have the right coach. Look at the "CHARGES" under the coaching of Marty S. we are awesome and still improving with every game. For years we were awful bad coaching, bad players, no team work it all just reflects on the Owners, Managers and the Coach if they work well together the team will work well on the field.
I alway look back and cringe at the $$$$$$MILLIONS we paid that IDIOT Ryan Leaf to quaterback.. right out of college not proven a damn thing we sign him for 19 Million what a dumb dumb mistake, and we paid dearly for years because of it.
A team has to jive on all levels to be a good team, on and off the field and each coach, owner, manager and all the players are responsible for that...
Contracts and what we pay coaches, managers, and players is a whole other side of the game that has me a little angry...!! Contract are way to high for players that have never played an NFL game.. to damn risky.. and as far as I can see most of the ones recuited for high signon bonuses never make it. Now granted there are lots that do but percentage wise I say the fans lose..!! :-5 :-5
ALOHA!!
MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
WOO HOO!!, what a ride!!!"
MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
WOO HOO!!, what a ride!!!"
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
Also Bill Walsh was a great coach, but I dont think him inching along behind a walker would be the best image for San Fran.,or anywhere else for that matter.
:yh_rotfl
I was just using the Walsh/Druckenmiller thing as a "for example" I'm
not one of those that thinks we should bring back Walsh or Siefert
or John Madden!! Too funny.
But Carla is right, the fans always lose. It's just that the whole thing
has so darn many variables. Raiders, too, they work under the incredible
burden of AL DAVIS. Lot of speculation that Norv Turner will be out
after this season. So they all keep changing things right and left and
sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. A young Jon Gruden leaves
the Raiders in decent shape and does pretty well with the Bucs. Great.
But at some point, if it's in those awful "rebuilding years" then the best
coach ever can't do much.
So KS, do you think Mariucci is now relegated to college football and
SHOULD he be?
:yh_rotfl
I was just using the Walsh/Druckenmiller thing as a "for example" I'm
not one of those that thinks we should bring back Walsh or Siefert
or John Madden!! Too funny.
But Carla is right, the fans always lose. It's just that the whole thing
has so darn many variables. Raiders, too, they work under the incredible
burden of AL DAVIS. Lot of speculation that Norv Turner will be out
after this season. So they all keep changing things right and left and
sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. A young Jon Gruden leaves
the Raiders in decent shape and does pretty well with the Bucs. Great.
But at some point, if it's in those awful "rebuilding years" then the best
coach ever can't do much.
So KS, do you think Mariucci is now relegated to college football and
SHOULD he be?
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
Good question Valerie, I have already heard rumblings about TO being picked up next year by the Dallas, Denver or the Raiders. If he can play again, you know someone will want Mariucci as a coach maybe the Redskins if Gibbs steps down..!!;)
So KS, do you think Mariucci is now relegated to college football and
SHOULD he be?
So KS, do you think Mariucci is now relegated to college football and
SHOULD he be?
ALOHA!!
MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
WOO HOO!!, what a ride!!!"
MOTTO TO LIVE BY:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, champagne in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming.
WOO HOO!!, what a ride!!!"
Detroit Lions Fire coach.
valerie wrote: Also Bill Walsh was a great coach, but I dont think him inching along behind a walker would be the best image for San Fran.,or anywhere else for that matter.
:yh_rotfl
I was just using the Walsh/Druckenmiller thing as a "for example" I'm
not one of those that thinks we should bring back Walsh or Siefert
or John Madden!! Too funny.
But Carla is right, the fans always lose. It's just that the whole thing
has so darn many variables. Raiders, too, they work under the incredible
burden of AL DAVIS. Lot of speculation that Norv Turner will be out
after this season. So they all keep changing things right and left and
sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. A young Jon Gruden leaves
the Raiders in decent shape and does pretty well with the Bucs. Great.
But at some point, if it's in those awful "rebuilding years" then the best
coach ever can't do much.
So KS, do you think Mariucci is now relegated to college football and
SHOULD he be?
If you want to know the truth Valerie here it is.
The NFL is all about money and markitability. You see time and time again teams "supposedly" having rebuilding years which is an excuse and a "cop-out" in my opinion. Heres why.
The only time you see teams having "supposedly" rebuilding years is when they are a first year beginning franchise or that their team has stunk for years on end and they are finally willing to give up their profits in the salary cap because sales and popularity of their teams have been declining to the point where top team executives are crying about not making more money on top of their millions.
People act like teams are better than other teams because of the GM and coach bringing in the star players, which is correct, but the GM and coach have nothing to do with it. Every NFL team has millions of dollars to spend, and they could do so but choose not to. Why? Because that money they could spend on them all-star players goes in their pockets(and you usually see this in teams that have had breakout teams, making runs to the SuperBowl in an attempt to boost ratings and increase popularity which results in fans spending more money on tickets and merchandise, only to have their team faid away because the owners choose not to spend the extra money coming in to sign more all-star players). The owners are the ones who have the final say in spending their money and always will.
After making their team popular in that piticular city, fans continue to support their team not knowing that in another 4-5 years their team will be reduced to just average players and then blaming the coach or GM, when they should be blaming the owners for pocketing their money and fronting the real problem which is business.
The rich will always take advantage of the poor. Its been happening since the beginning of time.
You want a real coach-- get a coach that can help the fans boycott proffessional sports and make it affortable like the old days. Then you'll see competition at its finest, when players actually played for the love of the game and not for a lengthy contract.
valerie wrote: So KS, do you think Mariucci is now relegated to college football and
SHOULD he be?
About your question, I really dont know. Because I dont know if he is a good coach or not. One thing is for sure, and thats the Detroit Lions are trying to spend that extra money to make their team better in their so called "rebuilding"(cop-out) years and Mariuci is not making it work. He started in San Fran with a quarterback like Steve Young and a wide receiver like Jerry Rice and a respectable defense, and is now faced with the true responsibility as a coach and is failing. ( in an un biased response--no pun)
:yh_rotfl
I was just using the Walsh/Druckenmiller thing as a "for example" I'm
not one of those that thinks we should bring back Walsh or Siefert
or John Madden!! Too funny.
But Carla is right, the fans always lose. It's just that the whole thing
has so darn many variables. Raiders, too, they work under the incredible
burden of AL DAVIS. Lot of speculation that Norv Turner will be out
after this season. So they all keep changing things right and left and
sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. A young Jon Gruden leaves
the Raiders in decent shape and does pretty well with the Bucs. Great.
But at some point, if it's in those awful "rebuilding years" then the best
coach ever can't do much.
So KS, do you think Mariucci is now relegated to college football and
SHOULD he be?
If you want to know the truth Valerie here it is.
The NFL is all about money and markitability. You see time and time again teams "supposedly" having rebuilding years which is an excuse and a "cop-out" in my opinion. Heres why.
The only time you see teams having "supposedly" rebuilding years is when they are a first year beginning franchise or that their team has stunk for years on end and they are finally willing to give up their profits in the salary cap because sales and popularity of their teams have been declining to the point where top team executives are crying about not making more money on top of their millions.
People act like teams are better than other teams because of the GM and coach bringing in the star players, which is correct, but the GM and coach have nothing to do with it. Every NFL team has millions of dollars to spend, and they could do so but choose not to. Why? Because that money they could spend on them all-star players goes in their pockets(and you usually see this in teams that have had breakout teams, making runs to the SuperBowl in an attempt to boost ratings and increase popularity which results in fans spending more money on tickets and merchandise, only to have their team faid away because the owners choose not to spend the extra money coming in to sign more all-star players). The owners are the ones who have the final say in spending their money and always will.
After making their team popular in that piticular city, fans continue to support their team not knowing that in another 4-5 years their team will be reduced to just average players and then blaming the coach or GM, when they should be blaming the owners for pocketing their money and fronting the real problem which is business.
The rich will always take advantage of the poor. Its been happening since the beginning of time.
You want a real coach-- get a coach that can help the fans boycott proffessional sports and make it affortable like the old days. Then you'll see competition at its finest, when players actually played for the love of the game and not for a lengthy contract.
valerie wrote: So KS, do you think Mariucci is now relegated to college football and
SHOULD he be?
About your question, I really dont know. Because I dont know if he is a good coach or not. One thing is for sure, and thats the Detroit Lions are trying to spend that extra money to make their team better in their so called "rebuilding"(cop-out) years and Mariuci is not making it work. He started in San Fran with a quarterback like Steve Young and a wide receiver like Jerry Rice and a respectable defense, and is now faced with the true responsibility as a coach and is failing. ( in an un biased response--no pun)