Today on the Good Morning America TV show, they talked about contraversial evidence of there possibly being a "Female" Pope, circa: 855 to 858.
So what do you think about this? :-2 ("Clint" where are you, any input?)
Pope Joan?
Pope Joan?
Cars 
Pope Joan?
My first thought was no, never.
Then I thought, maybe. Women did play an important part in the early church.
So, I Web searched it and there is quite a bit out there on her.
Like the following:
What do you think. Fact or Myth?
Exploding the Myth of "Pope Joan"
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The myth of "Pope Joan" is the subject of a recent best-selling book "Pope Joan" by Donna Woolfolk Cross, and is the subject of a soon to be released movie, produced by Harry Ufland (producer of The Last Temptation of Christ and One True Thing ).
According to legend, an English woman, disguised as a monk, was elected pope in the year 853 (or 855, depending on the version of the legend). She apparently "got away" with this until two years later when "Pope Joan" allegedly gave birth during a papal procession through Rome.
It should become clear to the reader that there never in fact was any such person. Contradictions in the account of the legend, plus the fact that it would be impossible for an "unknown" to become Pope in those days, along with the lack of any contemporary records, prove that the legend of "Pope Joan" is nothing more than that, a legend.
Here is what Larousse's Dictionary of World Folklore has to say on the subject:
Pope Joan. A mythical female pope first recorded in the 13th century ...Passing under the name of Johannes Anglicus, her wide learning gained her election to the papacy in 855 as John VIII. She was supposed to have died in childbirth during a solemn procession."
So Many Variations.....
The version which says Joan died in childbirth is just one of many versions of the legend; other accounts have Joan being stoned to death by the surrounding mob (Cf. the 13th century 'De septum donis Spiritu Sancti' ('The Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit') by Stephen of Bourbon; according to this account Joan was elected pope in Rome in c. 1100 after showing extraordinary ability as a scribe, but when she (allegedly!) gave birth to a child during a papal procession to the Church of St. John Lateran, she was found out and taken outside the city to be stoned to death. Apparently, she was also known as Agnes or Gilberta or else was unnamed until the name Joan became the standard form for the legend in the 14th century.
Another source of the legend is from Martin of Troppen, a 13th-century Dominican, who named her as Johannes Angelicus, born of English parents in Mainz, and set the date of her supposed election to the papacy at 855.
Given the number and variety of legends surrounding this supposed "historical" character, it is clear she was never in fact a historical person.
Other Problems with "Her Holiness Pope Joan"!!!
Consider also the following points:
i) There are no contemporary historical accounts of this supposed event. Nor is there anything in the ecclesiastical records.
ii) There's no place in the papal chronology where Joan could fit in. Pope Joan said to have reigned as John VIII from 855 to 858 until she was found out. In fact Pope Benedict III succeeded Leo IV in 855 after a period of only a few weeks. Other versions of the legend, as we saw, have her being elected in 853, but this doesn't fit either.
iii) Finally, the lack of any contemporary account is further proof of the legend's inauthenticity. Although the incident allegedly happened in the 9th century, no mention of it appears until the 13th century.
Then I thought, maybe. Women did play an important part in the early church.
So, I Web searched it and there is quite a bit out there on her.
Like the following:
What do you think. Fact or Myth?
Exploding the Myth of "Pope Joan"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The myth of "Pope Joan" is the subject of a recent best-selling book "Pope Joan" by Donna Woolfolk Cross, and is the subject of a soon to be released movie, produced by Harry Ufland (producer of The Last Temptation of Christ and One True Thing ).
According to legend, an English woman, disguised as a monk, was elected pope in the year 853 (or 855, depending on the version of the legend). She apparently "got away" with this until two years later when "Pope Joan" allegedly gave birth during a papal procession through Rome.
It should become clear to the reader that there never in fact was any such person. Contradictions in the account of the legend, plus the fact that it would be impossible for an "unknown" to become Pope in those days, along with the lack of any contemporary records, prove that the legend of "Pope Joan" is nothing more than that, a legend.
Here is what Larousse's Dictionary of World Folklore has to say on the subject:
Pope Joan. A mythical female pope first recorded in the 13th century ...Passing under the name of Johannes Anglicus, her wide learning gained her election to the papacy in 855 as John VIII. She was supposed to have died in childbirth during a solemn procession."
So Many Variations.....
The version which says Joan died in childbirth is just one of many versions of the legend; other accounts have Joan being stoned to death by the surrounding mob (Cf. the 13th century 'De septum donis Spiritu Sancti' ('The Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit') by Stephen of Bourbon; according to this account Joan was elected pope in Rome in c. 1100 after showing extraordinary ability as a scribe, but when she (allegedly!) gave birth to a child during a papal procession to the Church of St. John Lateran, she was found out and taken outside the city to be stoned to death. Apparently, she was also known as Agnes or Gilberta or else was unnamed until the name Joan became the standard form for the legend in the 14th century.
Another source of the legend is from Martin of Troppen, a 13th-century Dominican, who named her as Johannes Angelicus, born of English parents in Mainz, and set the date of her supposed election to the papacy at 855.
Given the number and variety of legends surrounding this supposed "historical" character, it is clear she was never in fact a historical person.
Other Problems with "Her Holiness Pope Joan"!!!
Consider also the following points:
i) There are no contemporary historical accounts of this supposed event. Nor is there anything in the ecclesiastical records.
ii) There's no place in the papal chronology where Joan could fit in. Pope Joan said to have reigned as John VIII from 855 to 858 until she was found out. In fact Pope Benedict III succeeded Leo IV in 855 after a period of only a few weeks. Other versions of the legend, as we saw, have her being elected in 853, but this doesn't fit either.
iii) Finally, the lack of any contemporary account is further proof of the legend's inauthenticity. Although the incident allegedly happened in the 9th century, no mention of it appears until the 13th century.
Pope Joan?
Pope Joan Engraving of Pope Joan from an 18th Century polemic, "A Present for a Papist. ... It is not known whether the story of Pope Joan is true. ...
www.museumofhoaxes.com/popeJoan.html - 9k - Cached - Similar pages
pagesCATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Pope Joan The fable about a female pope, who afterwards bore the name of Johanna (Joan), is first noticed in the middle of the thirteenth century.
www.newadvent.org/cathen/08407a.htm - 27k - Cached - Similar pages
www.museumofhoaxes.com/popeJoan.html - 9k - Cached - Similar pages
pagesCATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Pope Joan The fable about a female pope, who afterwards bore the name of Johanna (Joan), is first noticed in the middle of the thirteenth century.
www.newadvent.org/cathen/08407a.htm - 27k - Cached - Similar pages
Pope Joan?
SnoozeControl wrote: Isn't the Pope assisted in everything? You'd think the underlings would notice Pope Joan had a little urination problem.:rolleyes:
Oh Snooze. You're so knowledgeable.
:yh_silly :yh_think
Oh Snooze. You're so knowledgeable.
:yh_silly :yh_think-
chonsigirl
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Pope Joan?
If the story started to come out in the thirteenth century, this was during the time when all the romances and legends were becoming popular. It probably started as a story, that just grew. I've never heard of this before. It's a stretch of the author and publisher to put it as historical fiction, which their site says it is.
Pope Joan?
SnoozeControl wrote: Thank you... but its really very simple. The lack of a willy is usually a dead give away.
When you are right,
you are right! :rolleyes:
When you are right,
you are right! :rolleyes: