I Hate Labels

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:01 am

I have been called (not in this Forum) a Flaming Liberal , a NeoCon, Facist, Bleeding Heart, Conservative, S.O.B., M----r F---er, A-- Ho-e, Devil Worshipper, Atheist, Racist, Agnostic, Do Gooder, and these are just a few. They tend to contradict one another don't they? On the basis of answering one or two questions on one issue some folks will decide to give us a label. Labeling seems to be in vogue these days. Individuals do it, newpapers, mags & TV does it, and yet, how accurate is this labeling? Shouldn't we really take it issue by issue as to what someone thinks and says before we label them? I am some of the foregoing labels some of the time on a particular issue, but I certainly can't be all of them at the same time. Once we label someone we tend to block out everything they say if we don't agree with them. Where's the objectivity?

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:38 am

A most timely and outstanding thread. I believe labels are appropriate if a private person self-identifies themselves in a certain way. I think labels are appropriate for public figures, especially those in an official capacity. I despise the labels that you seem to be speaking of. The hate-filled, often unfounded labels that others attach without any basis, other than their own agenda. This especially becomes even more egregious when it is done in a public setting (like this forum). I'm sure it goes on here often, speaking from personal experience on the receiving end, but that doesn't make it right.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:47 am

posted by lon

Once we label someone we tend to block out everything they say if we don't agree with them. Where's the objectivity?

Is that not the whole point? If someone puts a point of view or interpretion of something that makes you think then if you put put a label on them you don't have to think any more.

Most people have systems of beliefs or attitudes that make them comfortable, looking at them differently can be frightening to some but others like to keep on learning and never stop throughout their lives. Most of the appeal for me in this forum is I know there are people with divergent views from my own that make me think and if I express an opinion I had better be able to justify it. Sometimes my own views shift as a consequence maybe I shift their's, who knows?

The labellers I can just ignore they get bored and go away. If you only look at forums or pick on topics where everybody thinks like you it's a form of intellectual masterbation, there's something lacking.

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:00 am

gmc wrote: Is that not the whole point? If you put put a label on them you don't have to think any more. The labellers I can just ignore they get bored and go away.
Those that tag someone else with an unfounded label might eventually "go away" to a certain extent, but the affects of the label linger. It's a "run and hide" tactic. Slap a label on someone, then run and hide while the damage of the label is left in the wake on the victim. Debating issues is honorable. Attacking a debator with labels lacks integrity.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:18 am

posted by chiptbeef

Those that tag someone else with an unfounded label might eventually "go away" to a certain extent, but the affects of the label linger. It's a "run and hide" tactic. Slap a label on someone, then run and hide while the damage of the label is left in the wake on the victim. Debating issues is honorable. Attacking a debator with labels lacks integrity.

That is my point, it's a way of avoiding thinking, they are not interested in debate and go away. The more astute get intrigued and stick around to see what everybody has to say. The effect of the label only works if you think in labels. If you can make up your own mind you will do so. When political debate sinks to that level and people can't see beyond the label and see the way it is being used you have a problem.

On a private level quite often those that apply a label do so thinking it a devastating insult that ends the arguement and wins it for them, and suffer from the delusion that the one ostensibly insulted cares what they think.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:34 am

Lon wrote: I have been called (not in this Forum) a Flaming Liberal , a NeoCon, Facist, Bleeding Heart, Conservative, S.O.B., M----r F---er, A-- Ho-e, Devil Worshipper, Atheist, Racist, Agnostic, Do Gooder, and these are just a few. They tend to contradict one another don't they? On the basis of answering one or two questions on one issue some folks will decide to give us a label. Labeling seems to be in vogue these days. Individuals do it, newpapers, mags & TV does it, and yet, how accurate is this labeling? Shouldn't we really take it issue by issue as to what someone thinks and says before we label them? I am some of the foregoing labels some of the time on a particular issue, but I certainly can't be all of them at the same time. Once we label someone we tend to block out everything they say if we don't agree with them. Where's the objectivity?
People usually resort to labels when you have won the debate. If they cant come up with further opposing arguments, then they resort to the good 'ol fashioned f*** you! LOL! Look at this way Lon, your labels are your olympic gold medals! World class boxer of ideas! Thats not so bad is it?

Besides, if people dont know the rules of debate, then they should refrain from joining in. For instance, you could be discussing an idea, but not personally agree with the side of the argument you're choosing. Every high school in america has a debate club or society dont they? The only time you HAVE to be right is when you're going for the nobel peace prize or science awards.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:53 am

Political labels are a farce. I don't know anybody that subscribes to everything attached to 'conservative,' 'liberal,' 'neo-con' :-2 , or even Republican or Democrat - even when they identify themselves as such.

Typically, if someone takes care to label me at all (which is very rare), I have been called neo-con, anarchist, libertarian, and lib here. None fit quite as well as Accountable.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

People are very polite here in the Garden. Lon brought this subject up because I applied a label. I called ChiptBeef a bigot. It is not an accusation I level lightly. In my opinion I did not use it glibly, unfairly, or without proper provocation. Some have come to the same conclusion, others have not. Yaaaay freedom.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:00 am

I've been labeled as boring, does that count?:yh_bigsmi

chrisb84uk · Post by **chrisb84uk** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:03 am

Must admit when I first saw the title of this thread, I was gonna give my fair share of complaints about how annoying labels are to get of products these days. I mean you get say half the label off, and then can't get the rest off, and it just leaves a sticky mess behind.

Then I realised that this thread is about the wrong kind of label, but hey now u know how I feel!! :p

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:07 am

Well what about some positive ones? The best labels I like wearing are wife, mom, friend. Not excluding darling, sweetheart, and sexy!

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:09 am

I really love this thread. Labels remind me of HIgh School. I hated High School. I just had my ten year reunion. In High School, you identify with a certain group more than others. THese groups have a certain clothing style too, right? Let's see, some of the ones is my HS were: The Goths/Metal Heads. USually all black or black shirts and ripped up jeans and trench coats. The preppy kids, usually the rich ones, always wore Gap, Abercrombie, etc. Hollister wasnt around back then. Then there were the "Rednecks". THey wore boots and wranglers and really loud shirts. There were the "psuedo hippies", the ones that listened to Phish, Widespread Panic, and Grateful Dead. And a few more in between.

So now, at almost 29, I find myself just wearing whatever looks good on me. Somedays its a black punk rock t shirt and ripped jeans with flip flops, or it can be a nice argyle sweater and khaki pants, or a sweater I see on a celebrity that I like. The point is. It doesnt matter as long as I feel good and look good in it. Maybe all of these "labels" are our society's grown up of way of classifying people into groups like Prep (democrats), hippies (bleeding hearts), metalheads (liberals), and rednecks (republican)...its silly isnt it?

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:14 am

The problem is we keep running out of labels. People are as different and diverse as the next person. Like snowflakes, no two are alike. There may be similarities around the edges, but there are more differences. It takes all colors of thread to make a brilliant tapestry. Each has it's own course to follow in the grand scheme of things. But each one is vital to the whole. To have a really brilliant forum, we need threads of all colors.

chrisb84uk · Post by **chrisb84uk** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:17 am

Ok on a serious note. The only label that sadly I hear quite a lot, (not directed at me, but someone I know,) is the goth label.

Sad story hear. About a month ago, I was hanging around our town centre, and noticed a young couple, dressed in black, both of whom had a nose piercing I think, (no idea how I remember that but heh.) After walking passed them, I heard some guy shout out, "hey you goth freaks, get you black freaky dressed asses, out of here, you wierdos." I turned around to discover that some middle aged man, was confronting this young couple and as u can tel was not very happy.

To their credit the couple ingored him and continued to walk down the street, whilst this idiot turned away and walked pass me, continuing to mutter, "goth a**holes".

Now this is a very sad state of affairs, all simply based on the way certain people dress.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:20 am

Raven wrote: The problem is we keep running out of labels. People are as different and diverse as the next person. Like snowflakes, no two are alike. There may be similarities around the edges, but there are more differences. It takes all colors of thread to make a brilliant tapestry. Each has it's own course to follow in the grand scheme of things. But each one is vital to the whole. To have a really brilliant forum, we need threads of all colors.

THAT WAS BEAUTIFUL!!

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:20 am

oooooooo I love the goths! pretty gothic personality myself!

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:22 am

Accountable wrote: I called ChiptBeef a bigot.
Another hateful, unfounded label. I'm not sure who said it first, but "tell a lie long enough and loud enough, then people will start believing it."

chrisb84uk · Post by **chrisb84uk** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:24 am

Raven wrote: oooooooo I love the goths! pretty gothic personality myself!

Well I would say I have some gothic side to myself as well. But as I said a lot of people in my opinion, have a very warped view of goths, and just consider anyone to be into that kind of thing as 'freakish' I can't see anything wrong with the whole aspect myself.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:25 am

DesignerGal wrote: THAT WAS BEAUTIFUL!!
Why thank you! I firmly believe it to be true.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:28 am

chrisb84uk wrote: Well I would say I have some gothic side to myself as well. But as I said a lot of people in my opinion, have a very warped view of goths, and just consider anyone to be into that kind of thing as 'freakish' I can't see anything wrong with the whole aspect myself.
LOL! They just DO what everyone else wishes they could! But their clothes are so EXPENSIVE!!

chrisb84uk · Post by **chrisb84uk** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:30 am

I'll take your word for it Raven. How expensive is expensive??

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:32 am

I went to get a skirt from a goth shop, and the damn thing cost Ã‚£50! I went away a very unhappy Raven, and no skirt.:-1 I really wanted it too!

chrisb84uk · Post by **chrisb84uk** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:36 am

Sorry to hear. I know how annoying it is, to see something really good in the shops, only to then see the price-tag, happens to me all the time!!

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:48 am

posted by chrisb84uk

Sad story hear. About a month ago, I was hanging around our town centre, and noticed a young couple, dressed in black, both of whom had a nose piercing I think, (no idea how I remember that but heh.) After walking passed them, I heard some guy shout out, "hey you goth freaks, get you black freaky dressed asses, out of here, you wierdos." I turned around to discover that some middle aged man, was confronting this young couple and as u can tel was not very happy.

They should have been polite and replied "I'm sorry but we don't take fashion tips from ageing Hippies, punks, rockers, mods.-(take your pick), perhaps he was one of the lost generation, post punk and pre new romantic, forever lost in a fashion limbo of kipper ties and jackets with furry collars.

chrisb84uk · Post by **chrisb84uk** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:51 am

Perhaps, I hope u are right GMC. I'm sure that for some people, the olden days never died, and that they simply haven't gotten with the change in trend for a lot of people.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:54 am

chrisb84uk wrote: Sorry to hear. I know how annoying it is, to see something really good in the shops, only to then see the price-tag, happens to me all the time!!
alas........champagne taste on a beer budget. story of my life.......

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:55 am

gmc wrote: posted by chrisb84uk

They should have been polite and replied "I'm sorry but we don't take fashion tips from ageing Hippies, punks, rockers, mods.-(take your pick), perhaps he was one of the lost generation, post punk and pre new romantic, forever lost in a fashion limbo of kipper ties and jackets with furry collars.
bowler hat brigade!

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:39 am

Lon

Senior Member

Supporting Member

To me your nuthin but a label hater

chrisb84uk · Post by **chrisb84uk** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:29 am

Far Rider wrote: I had to laugh one day many years ago when the newlywed wife of a young soldier came up and began yelling at me for taking her husband away from home so soon after their marriage... let me tell you she laid into me, her words were sharp and I know her husband wanted to break ranks and stop her but could not... I stood there and let her vent.... she hit me, slapped at my chest and called me an uncaring-coldhearted-SOB. (UNC-SOB)

When she calmed and began crying and sobbing several of the wives around came up and got her and we all marched off...

For that whole deployment I was Sgt UNC-SOB to my close buds. The Uncaring SOB.

When we came home, she apologized and invited my family over for dinner and we all laughed about it.

Sometimes Lon, labels fit the way were acting or the group we represent. Some are truthful and some are not. It seems to me the more someone gets to know you the more they can realize that your not always the way you represented yourself in that one snapshot that they labeled you.

It takes time.

Nicely put Far, and a very good story to go with it.

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:39 am

FarRider wrote: It seems to me the more someone gets to know you the more they can realize that your not always the way you represented yourself in that one snapshot that they labeled you. It takes time.
Good point and advice, if you did represent yourself in a certain manner. Those that are so quick to asign unfounded labels that are not based in fact when a person does not represent themselves as alleged, should take time to consider the consequences of their actions, and how much harm can be done by their spurious attacks.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:15 am

That's funny, Lon....the only label I've ever applied to you in my mind is "Nice Old Dude.":D

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:53 pm

Nomad wrote: Lon

Senior Member

Supporting Member

To me your nuthin but a label hater

Don't be thick Nomad-----Both of the above labels are true and accurate.

The title of of thread should have been "I Hate Labels Based On Limited Information"---that would have been better.

ChiptBeef · Post by **ChiptBeef** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:58 pm

I don't have my spectacles on. Does that say "I Hate Liberals?" (satire)