I watched this episode of 20/20 last Friday. Do those of you in the education field agree with this? How about parents?
I believe it brings up good suggestions such as letting the gov't funding follow the child & let the parents send their kids to whatever school they wish. The resulting competition cannot but help our education system, can it?
If we must keep with the system we have, why not make all schools charter schools?
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1491217
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I haven't a clue what the american system is like but I suggest you look a bit more closely at what other countries do before you decide that competition is the only answer.
American students fizzle in international comparisons, placing 18th in reading, 22nd in science and 28th in math †behind countries like Poland, Australia and Korea.
Most of the countries that outperform will have mainly state controlled education systems, some private schools but most will go to state ones. sound bite answers`are not all they are cracked up to be.
American students fizzle in international comparisons, placing 18th in reading, 22nd in science and 28th in math †behind countries like Poland, Australia and Korea.
Most of the countries that outperform will have mainly state controlled education systems, some private schools but most will go to state ones. sound bite answers`are not all they are cracked up to be.
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The competition is school to school. funding & curriculum still come from the state. Parents get to decide which school they want their kids attend, and the gov't attaches funding to the kid. Parents naturally want their kids to go to the best schools; schools naturally want more funding. Match made in Heaven!
I forget the country the video talked about, but their system was similar.
I forget the country the video talked about, but their system was similar.
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chonsigirl
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I did not watch the special, so I cannot specifically answer your question. Federal and state funding vary from school to school system.
It sounds good on the outside, but you would be a parent who carefully tracked what went on with your child and specific school. At some schools, the parents really do not care what happens, and these schools would receive less funding and conditions would only get worse.
I'll use an example from my school about funding. I work at a school classified as suburban, 1 mile from the city border. One-fourth or more of the student population comes from the city, and use addresses that are not legit. Two years in a row the school has not made state requirements, and has lost funding. This means loss of staff, loss of elective studies for the students. Now school is getting even more boring for them, they have a choice of only three electives for the three years they are there. The other slots left by electives are directed towards an extra math or reading class, whichever is necessary according to their scores. In some ways that is a good thing, in other ways it is not. Two math classes a day is not very appealing to a 11-13 year old, who still tries as hard as possible to pass the state exams but doesn't. (I will not enter the question of the validity of the test, that would make another thread topic-but I mention it because there is that question of test validity)
It sounds good on the outside, but you would be a parent who carefully tracked what went on with your child and specific school. At some schools, the parents really do not care what happens, and these schools would receive less funding and conditions would only get worse.
I'll use an example from my school about funding. I work at a school classified as suburban, 1 mile from the city border. One-fourth or more of the student population comes from the city, and use addresses that are not legit. Two years in a row the school has not made state requirements, and has lost funding. This means loss of staff, loss of elective studies for the students. Now school is getting even more boring for them, they have a choice of only three electives for the three years they are there. The other slots left by electives are directed towards an extra math or reading class, whichever is necessary according to their scores. In some ways that is a good thing, in other ways it is not. Two math classes a day is not very appealing to a 11-13 year old, who still tries as hard as possible to pass the state exams but doesn't. (I will not enter the question of the validity of the test, that would make another thread topic-but I mention it because there is that question of test validity)
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How would you fix it, Chons?
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chonsigirl
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On the state level, I would redo some of the state testing-in Maryland it needs to be done. (it is not an unbiased test) At the school district level, more funding and staff for this school-not for the more affluent schools that score high on tests and get all the attention. Our kids are great too. At the student level, maybe some more social approaches-classes on parenting, sports activities (we only have one sports activity, which two teachers volunteer to do-we get no funding for sports), and more positive feedback when the students are good at something. (this needs to come from the staff level, some teachers are burned out and in fear of state takeoff with the overkill that results from not complying two years in a row, and you sometimes cannot blame them in a way-under the No Child Left Behind Law you are stuck in that school, unless another teacher elects to teach there-that is a slim chance of that happening)
The No Child Left Behind Law has some definite problems with it, because the premise is not being made. That is on the federal level. The feds need to come down and look at the schools personally, not the guided tour by school officials. Last time they were at my school, I told my students there would be visitors and to be on their best behavior. They were very good that day. The feds did not stop at one classroom. The students asked me "Why did they not want to see what we are doing in class?" I did not have an answer for them, because the feds did not care.
The No Child Left Behind Law has some definite problems with it, because the premise is not being made. That is on the federal level. The feds need to come down and look at the schools personally, not the guided tour by school officials. Last time they were at my school, I told my students there would be visitors and to be on their best behavior. They were very good that day. The feds did not stop at one classroom. The students asked me "Why did they not want to see what we are doing in class?" I did not have an answer for them, because the feds did not care.
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The fed should butt out.
The video blamed the teachers union for alot of the damage - that and that most of the funding goes to administration.
The video blamed the teachers union for alot of the damage - that and that most of the funding goes to administration.
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Overfunding of aministration is an accurate charge. It is top heavy-cut down on some of these positions, and put the money back into the schools in more practical ways-like other forms of staff positions.
Teacher unions vary from state to state, school district to school district. They also keep things on the status quo, and need to redirect themselves to the primary focus-students and learning.
Teacher unions vary from state to state, school district to school district. They also keep things on the status quo, and need to redirect themselves to the primary focus-students and learning.
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Then my question to you, moverguy, who would want to teach in the lower scoring schools, knowing they would have to take a lower salary?
You can only raise scores so much on a yearly basis....................
I turned down the magnet school position, to teach at the lowest rated school-because not many teachers want to teach these children, who need an education as much as the higher scoring schools.
You can only raise scores so much on a yearly basis....................
I turned down the magnet school position, to teach at the lowest rated school-because not many teachers want to teach these children, who need an education as much as the higher scoring schools.
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The documentary pointed out that our comparative scores were higher in the lower grades, but dropped sharply in high school. That's one thing I really don't get.
I blame Jives. :rolleyes:
I blame Jives. :rolleyes:
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Poor Jives!
Also AC, maybe it has to be through the perspective of scores, what tests they are looking at. I didn't see the show-were they looking at SAT scores? Or individual state scores? Then its a orange and lemon opinion.......
Have scores gone up in the last few years? Yes, we have improved in math and other areas. Do we need to do more? You bet we do. But it also begins at home, with family support of education and their children's study habits. Coming in on a Monday morning tired because a 12 year old stayed up to 1 or 2 in the morning playing video games doesn't help us in trying to teach them anything that day........................
Also AC, maybe it has to be through the perspective of scores, what tests they are looking at. I didn't see the show-were they looking at SAT scores? Or individual state scores? Then its a orange and lemon opinion.......
Have scores gone up in the last few years? Yes, we have improved in math and other areas. Do we need to do more? You bet we do. But it also begins at home, with family support of education and their children's study habits. Coming in on a Monday morning tired because a 12 year old stayed up to 1 or 2 in the morning playing video games doesn't help us in trying to teach them anything that day........................
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As long as U.S. public schools remain that ..PUBLIC schools, educating everyone and anyone who comes to the door, the scores will be lower than in other progressive countries whose educational systems track the students and divide them about middle school into college or not. Obviously the 'college' track is whom they test to 'prove' how well the edcuational system is doing.
That said, of course the U.S. system can use some fine tuning..too much red tape and too much control out of the hands of the classroom teacher, among other things. Parents should be more in touch with their kids, and a whole lot of other issues that it's too late to fix now..so we have to learn to work with them or around them.
I'd suggest for starters when we compare our students to other countries we compare graduating college seniors..that is where the curve finally comes together again. All the lower functioning students have been educated to their ability and gone to proper placement after high school, all the goof offs have either flunked out or gone off to seek their fortunes (too often in drugs).By Jr and Sr. college years, we fianlly have the group we wanted to be educationg all along. They stuck with it, in spite of the distraction and are on the way to a productive successful life.
And that is NOT to say that only college graduates are productive and successful but we ARE talking about U.S. education here.
That said, of course the U.S. system can use some fine tuning..too much red tape and too much control out of the hands of the classroom teacher, among other things. Parents should be more in touch with their kids, and a whole lot of other issues that it's too late to fix now..so we have to learn to work with them or around them.
I'd suggest for starters when we compare our students to other countries we compare graduating college seniors..that is where the curve finally comes together again. All the lower functioning students have been educated to their ability and gone to proper placement after high school, all the goof offs have either flunked out or gone off to seek their fortunes (too often in drugs).By Jr and Sr. college years, we fianlly have the group we wanted to be educationg all along. They stuck with it, in spite of the distraction and are on the way to a productive successful life.
And that is NOT to say that only college graduates are productive and successful but we ARE talking about U.S. education here.
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Then you are fortunate, moverguy-as a single mother of 4 at the time of, with no child support, my children went to public schools. I worked two jobs until I could buy my first home and move to them to a better neighborhood and better schools.
The tracking system used in other countries-well, there are honestly pros and cons on that as well. I do not think all children by middle school can be pegged as college material or not. Some students do not blossom until high school. Many return to earn their college degrees as adults.
The tracking system used in other countries-well, there are honestly pros and cons on that as well. I do not think all children by middle school can be pegged as college material or not. Some students do not blossom until high school. Many return to earn their college degrees as adults.
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I found the transcript.
Here's the part about testing:
To give you an idea of how competitive American schools are and how U.S. students performed compared with their European counterparts, we gave parts of an international test to some high school students in Belgium and in New Jersey.
Belgian kids cleaned the American kids' clocks, and called them "stupid."
We didn't pick smart kids to test in Europe and dumb kids in the United States. The American students attend an above-average school in New Jersey, and New Jersey's kids have test scores that are above average for America.
Lov Patel, the boy who got the highest score among the American students, told me, "I'm shocked, because it just shows how advanced they are compared to us."
The Belgian students didn't perform better because they're smarter than American students. They performed better because their schools are better. At age 10, American students take an international test and score well above the international average. But by age 15, when students from 40 countries are tested, the Americans place 25th.
American schools don't teach as well as schools in other countries because they are government monopolies, and monopolies don't have much incentive to compete. In Belgium, by contrast, the money is attached to the kids †it's a kind of voucher system. Government funds education †at many different kinds of schools †but if a school can't attract students, it goes out of business.
Belgian school principal Kaat Vandensavel told us she works hard to impress parents.
She told us, "If we don't offer them what they want for their child, they won't come to our school." She constantly improves the teaching, saying, "You can't afford 10 teachers out of 160 that don't do their work, because the clients will know, and won't come to you again."
"That's normal in Western Europe," Harvard economist Caroline Hoxby told me. "If schools don't perform well, a parent would never be trapped in that school in the same way you could be trapped in the U.S."
Here's the part about testing:
To give you an idea of how competitive American schools are and how U.S. students performed compared with their European counterparts, we gave parts of an international test to some high school students in Belgium and in New Jersey.
Belgian kids cleaned the American kids' clocks, and called them "stupid."
We didn't pick smart kids to test in Europe and dumb kids in the United States. The American students attend an above-average school in New Jersey, and New Jersey's kids have test scores that are above average for America.
Lov Patel, the boy who got the highest score among the American students, told me, "I'm shocked, because it just shows how advanced they are compared to us."
The Belgian students didn't perform better because they're smarter than American students. They performed better because their schools are better. At age 10, American students take an international test and score well above the international average. But by age 15, when students from 40 countries are tested, the Americans place 25th.
American schools don't teach as well as schools in other countries because they are government monopolies, and monopolies don't have much incentive to compete. In Belgium, by contrast, the money is attached to the kids †it's a kind of voucher system. Government funds education †at many different kinds of schools †but if a school can't attract students, it goes out of business.
Belgian school principal Kaat Vandensavel told us she works hard to impress parents.
She told us, "If we don't offer them what they want for their child, they won't come to our school." She constantly improves the teaching, saying, "You can't afford 10 teachers out of 160 that don't do their work, because the clients will know, and won't come to you again."
"That's normal in Western Europe," Harvard economist Caroline Hoxby told me. "If schools don't perform well, a parent would never be trapped in that school in the same way you could be trapped in the U.S."
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Thanks for the transcript, AC. It looks a main component is the parents buying into the school, giving the support the child needs to continue and excel at their studies.
That system wouldn't work here, if the parents don't want to do their part. No matter how hard a teacher works, they have to have the student want to work in the classroom, complete homework at home, and study for exams. Also, restricting the teacher here in the U.S. with multiple curriculum requirements-that definitely restricts us teaching pure content which the student needs. For example, I must weekly teach, besides my social studies curriculm, these things: a math lesson, a reading lesson, a writing lesson, and compile data from for the state. Of course I try to use social studies as part of this for the reading and writing, but the math is ordained from above. Many teachers refuse to do this, at risk of their position. I don't, I teach it-I have to have a job to support my family. But, where do the students makeup the excluded curriculum we never have time to teach?
(Oh, and I must teach 2 novels they must read throughout the year-novels which I didn't pick, and barely touch the subject matter-that wastes from 8-16 weeks of a 40 week curriculum, that part I do skip on and make them read it at home. But the minority only comply with this, and quiz grades show that result)
That system wouldn't work here, if the parents don't want to do their part. No matter how hard a teacher works, they have to have the student want to work in the classroom, complete homework at home, and study for exams. Also, restricting the teacher here in the U.S. with multiple curriculum requirements-that definitely restricts us teaching pure content which the student needs. For example, I must weekly teach, besides my social studies curriculm, these things: a math lesson, a reading lesson, a writing lesson, and compile data from for the state. Of course I try to use social studies as part of this for the reading and writing, but the math is ordained from above. Many teachers refuse to do this, at risk of their position. I don't, I teach it-I have to have a job to support my family. But, where do the students makeup the excluded curriculum we never have time to teach?
(Oh, and I must teach 2 novels they must read throughout the year-novels which I didn't pick, and barely touch the subject matter-that wastes from 8-16 weeks of a 40 week curriculum, that part I do skip on and make them read it at home. But the minority only comply with this, and quiz grades show that result)
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chonsigirl wrote: Thanks for the transcript, AC. It looks a main component is the parents buying into the school, giving the support the child needs to continue and excel at their studies.
That system wouldn't work here, if the parents don't want to do their part. No matter how hard a teacher works, they have to have the student want to work in the classroom, complete homework at home, and study for exams. Also, restricting the teacher here in the U.S. with multiple curriculum requirements-that definitely restricts us teaching pure content which the student needs. For example, I must weekly teach, besides my social studies curriculm, these things: a math lesson, a reading lesson, a writing lesson, and compile data from for the state. Of course I try to use social studies as part of this for the reading and writing, but the math is ordained from above. Many teachers refuse to do this, at risk of their position. I don't, I teach it-I have to have a job to support my family. But, where do the students makeup the excluded curriculum we never have time to teach?
(Oh, and I must teach 2 novels they must read throughout the year-novels which I didn't pick, and barely touch the subject matter-that wastes from 8-16 weeks of a 40 week curriculum, that part I do skip on and make them read it at home. But the minority only comply with this, and quiz grades show that result)
yeh, I'm afraid we might have let sense of parental responsibility atrophy as a society. It's just not common enough.
Who's making all those requirements - state or federal?
That system wouldn't work here, if the parents don't want to do their part. No matter how hard a teacher works, they have to have the student want to work in the classroom, complete homework at home, and study for exams. Also, restricting the teacher here in the U.S. with multiple curriculum requirements-that definitely restricts us teaching pure content which the student needs. For example, I must weekly teach, besides my social studies curriculm, these things: a math lesson, a reading lesson, a writing lesson, and compile data from for the state. Of course I try to use social studies as part of this for the reading and writing, but the math is ordained from above. Many teachers refuse to do this, at risk of their position. I don't, I teach it-I have to have a job to support my family. But, where do the students makeup the excluded curriculum we never have time to teach?
(Oh, and I must teach 2 novels they must read throughout the year-novels which I didn't pick, and barely touch the subject matter-that wastes from 8-16 weeks of a 40 week curriculum, that part I do skip on and make them read it at home. But the minority only comply with this, and quiz grades show that result)
yeh, I'm afraid we might have let sense of parental responsibility atrophy as a society. It's just not common enough.
Who's making all those requirements - state or federal?
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Minnesota has consistently ranked in the top percentile for several decades in the below categories. I wonder why some states arent opting to follow a similar curriculum in order to accelerate their success.
Minnesota †A great place to live
Excellent educational systems
Students in a Twin Cities classroom
Class at the Shirley Moore Lab School
Minnesota consistently ranks among the top states in the nation for high school graduation rates.
The state also ranks highly in other measures of educational success such as percent of total population enrolled in college and percent of students taught by teachers with a major in the subject field.
Minnesota's ACT average score of 22.3 out of 36 ranked second in 2005 and leads the nation.
The state boasts 32 colleges and universities in the Minnesota State Colleges and Universities System (MNSCU). This does not include the University of Minnesota or its campuses.Well-educated adults
Minnesota has the highest percentage of residents who have earned a high school diploma, and is among the top 10 states in its share of adults with college degrees.
The share of Minnesotans aged 25 and older with a bachelor's degree or higher increased by 4.9 percent between 1996 and 2000, a stronger growth rate than the national increase of 2.1 percent.
Minnesota †A great place to live
Excellent educational systems
Students in a Twin Cities classroom
Class at the Shirley Moore Lab School
Minnesota consistently ranks among the top states in the nation for high school graduation rates.
The state also ranks highly in other measures of educational success such as percent of total population enrolled in college and percent of students taught by teachers with a major in the subject field.
Minnesota's ACT average score of 22.3 out of 36 ranked second in 2005 and leads the nation.
The state boasts 32 colleges and universities in the Minnesota State Colleges and Universities System (MNSCU). This does not include the University of Minnesota or its campuses.Well-educated adults
Minnesota has the highest percentage of residents who have earned a high school diploma, and is among the top 10 states in its share of adults with college degrees.
The share of Minnesotans aged 25 and older with a bachelor's degree or higher increased by 4.9 percent between 1996 and 2000, a stronger growth rate than the national increase of 2.1 percent.
I AM AWESOME MAN
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moverguy wrote: No offense, OK, really.... BUT how the hell do you do you think our parents, and our grandparents pulled it off?! Work sun up to sundown, sent their kids to school and they went to work and they had us
The MTV, Internet, and instant gratification society?! I don't care that your have 4 kids and no child support, does this mean that it's the schools fault? My mother had 2 with no support either - EVER and guess what POOR, and I mean POOR we made it, and she worked double shifts and we saw her in the morning before school and when she came in to kiss us good night.
And we made it, because we were raised to make it. My daughter goes to Private school because I as a parent, am not nearly as good as my mother was, and so I pay to have the added time, drive and guidance given to her.
Parents are the blame for all things relating to their children. Turn of the PC, the T/V, and the XBOX; have dinner together, spank them, hug them, and guide them and chances are, you and they will make it just fine.
I'm assuming Chonsi's too much of a lady to respond, or she's busy.
Mover, her remark was that you are fortunate to have the funds to send your kids to private school. All that rant you made may be generally accurate about society as a whole, but it hardly applies to this educator, parent, and wife.
The MTV, Internet, and instant gratification society?! I don't care that your have 4 kids and no child support, does this mean that it's the schools fault? My mother had 2 with no support either - EVER and guess what POOR, and I mean POOR we made it, and she worked double shifts and we saw her in the morning before school and when she came in to kiss us good night.
And we made it, because we were raised to make it. My daughter goes to Private school because I as a parent, am not nearly as good as my mother was, and so I pay to have the added time, drive and guidance given to her.
Parents are the blame for all things relating to their children. Turn of the PC, the T/V, and the XBOX; have dinner together, spank them, hug them, and guide them and chances are, you and they will make it just fine.
I'm assuming Chonsi's too much of a lady to respond, or she's busy.
Mover, her remark was that you are fortunate to have the funds to send your kids to private school. All that rant you made may be generally accurate about society as a whole, but it hardly applies to this educator, parent, and wife.
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Here's the email response to the show (I get Stossel's newsletter):
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Last week's show got unusually high ratings and positive feedback. I will have much more about education in my new book "Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity" [Click Here] to be published on May 9th.
To the mail and message board:
"I find your unresearched, fact-lacking opinion pieces to be laughable..." Koebel
"The discouraging condition of "public education" in America has compelled my wife and me to choose the challenging option of home schooling. This is a daunting responsibility that we do not enter into lightly. Unfortunately, we see no other means of providing our children with a comprehensive education. Public schools' agenda is dominated by government regulation, union influence and social experimentation. Private school is economically unfeasible for our family..." David Oihus, Tempe, Arizona
"Aprilmay13135 wrote 'Does anyone else see this title and want to either gag or throw their computer out the window? ... Public schools are 'public' because they are 'owned' or maintained by government agencies ... If PUBLIC schools were not under the 'monopoly' of the government, they would not be public ...Aprilmay would be a little surprised to find that my friends who golf use '[public' to describe a course where anyone who is willing to pay can play, as opposed to 'private' courses where one must have a membership. Most of these courses are not owned by governments or their agencies. Similarly, 'public' companies are ones in which anyone can buy stock. None of these are owned by government. Aprilmay's comments show a common misunderstanding that betrays a closed mindset that believes the government is the most effective, if not only, solution to every problem." Joe Puckett
Also, supermarkets are private, but they are much more friendly and accessible to the public than any public school.
"#1-A young man in the 4th transferred into our school system from another state. He had been in a residential facility for emotionally disturbed children since he had been in kindergarten. After receiving his school records, I called the mother for clarification on a couple of points. According to the records, the child's stepfather had been jailed for physically assaulting the mother and the child. When I asked the mother if the stepfather was still involved with the family, she laughed and said, "No. As a matter of fact, I divorced him. My fiance and I are now living with my first husband, who is the father of my son." Need I say more???? #2-Two young ladies, 15 and 17, were left home with the 21-year old boyfriend of the older daughter while their parents went on a three-week haul (they were truck drivers). The boyfriend was intimate with both girls during that time and provided them with alcohol and marijuana. While the girls did come to school during those three weeks, their academic performance was abysmal. I could go on and on. Public education does have issues, and many areas of needed improvement... but I have never seen a front-page article or a news magazine program concerning the effects of the breakdown of the family as a contributor to the decline in educational performance. Teachers in today's schools are not only trying to impart knowledge, but must also serve as counselors to heart-broken children..." Cindy Haney, Special Education Referral Coordinator, Limestone County Schools, Athens, Alabama
I wish I had had the TV time to give more attention to the difficulties you teachers face because of situations like that.
etdmanRename: "You should have called it 'Which Govt Official is Stealing your Child's Education/Money'. Don't blame the teachers, the parents or the students. Just get the Govt out of the education business and give control back to the local level and you will see a every school excel. You got it exactly right on the competition issue. A school will meet the need or it won't be a school. Great Show."
I also should have paid more attention to the burdens and limits that the public school systems place on their teachers.
"I work with some lazy, incompetent teachers and bumbling administrators. We do not have any competition, and there is so much bureaucracy, it's almost insane. Teachers Unions protect lazy teachers...P.S. I just got through using "Are We Scaring Ourselves to Death" from your Stossel in the Classroom series. My U.S. History II Class just got through studying the Progressive Era and I thought it was something appropriate to use. They really enjoyed the program." Stephen Scott, Tulsa, OK
Benboy6703: "Choice? Just lost a 20/20 fan. I am a teacher and I will never watch 20/20 again. Once again we are easy targets and abc did it again...GO NBC CBS"
Smtexas10: "Just gained a huge fan, John Stossel! Lose this one gain a thousand more. That has to be the best report from the media I have ever seen. Unbelievable. Not being able to evaluate a teacher (an employee) and fire them when they don't meet the necessary requirements that the job requires is absurd! What's more absurd is that the union teachers can't see the difference between the charter schools and their public schools held hostage by their unions."
Cafetom: "Communist in America. And there you have it. I just started working...for a School District...My first year I was told all I have to do is 'show up' and I will have it made....Good for me, if I were a slug and didn't care. Bad for the student..."
Naplesteach: " I was so sickened by your report I felt like I would vomit. Jennifer in FL
MysticTigerWings: I don't believe he was saying the teachers are stupid'... it was mostly the school system. The school system can, and does, suck. Not the teachers. The teachers are 99.9% of the time great. As a teacher, though, don't you get bogged down in the lack of money or rules/restrictions of the school system?
public_school_teacher: Another stupid teacher here! Wow! I only have to work 6 hours a day! I guess now I am allowed to sleep at night instead of thinking about how to please the parents and make learning interesting! Wait, I almost forgot that I am now supposed to give my students my cell phone number. Who needs a life after the 10 hours I spend at school. Does the fact that I only work 6 hours a day mean that I no longer have to teach in an all year long schedule, attend staff meetings, IEP, ILP, parent teacher conferences, take classes to learn current "best practices" before and after school without getting paid for it? I can compare this job to the jobs of my college friends that put in far less hours with double the pay.
soakup4m After teaching in an affluent public school I realized prior to children that my children would never step foot in school. Here we are seven years later homeschooling and breathing a sigh of relief. Our children love to learn and have many friends, but not everyone can vote with their feet like we have. Our schools should do better.
"THANK YOU, John Stossel, for letting the ugly cat out of the bag!" Cindy Houghton, Gilmanton, NH
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Last week's show got unusually high ratings and positive feedback. I will have much more about education in my new book "Myths, Lies, and Downright Stupidity" [Click Here] to be published on May 9th.
To the mail and message board:
"I find your unresearched, fact-lacking opinion pieces to be laughable..." Koebel
"The discouraging condition of "public education" in America has compelled my wife and me to choose the challenging option of home schooling. This is a daunting responsibility that we do not enter into lightly. Unfortunately, we see no other means of providing our children with a comprehensive education. Public schools' agenda is dominated by government regulation, union influence and social experimentation. Private school is economically unfeasible for our family..." David Oihus, Tempe, Arizona
"Aprilmay13135 wrote 'Does anyone else see this title and want to either gag or throw their computer out the window? ... Public schools are 'public' because they are 'owned' or maintained by government agencies ... If PUBLIC schools were not under the 'monopoly' of the government, they would not be public ...Aprilmay would be a little surprised to find that my friends who golf use '[public' to describe a course where anyone who is willing to pay can play, as opposed to 'private' courses where one must have a membership. Most of these courses are not owned by governments or their agencies. Similarly, 'public' companies are ones in which anyone can buy stock. None of these are owned by government. Aprilmay's comments show a common misunderstanding that betrays a closed mindset that believes the government is the most effective, if not only, solution to every problem." Joe Puckett
Also, supermarkets are private, but they are much more friendly and accessible to the public than any public school.
"#1-A young man in the 4th transferred into our school system from another state. He had been in a residential facility for emotionally disturbed children since he had been in kindergarten. After receiving his school records, I called the mother for clarification on a couple of points. According to the records, the child's stepfather had been jailed for physically assaulting the mother and the child. When I asked the mother if the stepfather was still involved with the family, she laughed and said, "No. As a matter of fact, I divorced him. My fiance and I are now living with my first husband, who is the father of my son." Need I say more???? #2-Two young ladies, 15 and 17, were left home with the 21-year old boyfriend of the older daughter while their parents went on a three-week haul (they were truck drivers). The boyfriend was intimate with both girls during that time and provided them with alcohol and marijuana. While the girls did come to school during those three weeks, their academic performance was abysmal. I could go on and on. Public education does have issues, and many areas of needed improvement... but I have never seen a front-page article or a news magazine program concerning the effects of the breakdown of the family as a contributor to the decline in educational performance. Teachers in today's schools are not only trying to impart knowledge, but must also serve as counselors to heart-broken children..." Cindy Haney, Special Education Referral Coordinator, Limestone County Schools, Athens, Alabama
I wish I had had the TV time to give more attention to the difficulties you teachers face because of situations like that.
etdmanRename: "You should have called it 'Which Govt Official is Stealing your Child's Education/Money'. Don't blame the teachers, the parents or the students. Just get the Govt out of the education business and give control back to the local level and you will see a every school excel. You got it exactly right on the competition issue. A school will meet the need or it won't be a school. Great Show."
I also should have paid more attention to the burdens and limits that the public school systems place on their teachers.
"I work with some lazy, incompetent teachers and bumbling administrators. We do not have any competition, and there is so much bureaucracy, it's almost insane. Teachers Unions protect lazy teachers...P.S. I just got through using "Are We Scaring Ourselves to Death" from your Stossel in the Classroom series. My U.S. History II Class just got through studying the Progressive Era and I thought it was something appropriate to use. They really enjoyed the program." Stephen Scott, Tulsa, OK
Benboy6703: "Choice? Just lost a 20/20 fan. I am a teacher and I will never watch 20/20 again. Once again we are easy targets and abc did it again...GO NBC CBS"
Smtexas10: "Just gained a huge fan, John Stossel! Lose this one gain a thousand more. That has to be the best report from the media I have ever seen. Unbelievable. Not being able to evaluate a teacher (an employee) and fire them when they don't meet the necessary requirements that the job requires is absurd! What's more absurd is that the union teachers can't see the difference between the charter schools and their public schools held hostage by their unions."
Cafetom: "Communist in America. And there you have it. I just started working...for a School District...My first year I was told all I have to do is 'show up' and I will have it made....Good for me, if I were a slug and didn't care. Bad for the student..."
Naplesteach: " I was so sickened by your report I felt like I would vomit. Jennifer in FL
MysticTigerWings: I don't believe he was saying the teachers are stupid'... it was mostly the school system. The school system can, and does, suck. Not the teachers. The teachers are 99.9% of the time great. As a teacher, though, don't you get bogged down in the lack of money or rules/restrictions of the school system?
public_school_teacher: Another stupid teacher here! Wow! I only have to work 6 hours a day! I guess now I am allowed to sleep at night instead of thinking about how to please the parents and make learning interesting! Wait, I almost forgot that I am now supposed to give my students my cell phone number. Who needs a life after the 10 hours I spend at school. Does the fact that I only work 6 hours a day mean that I no longer have to teach in an all year long schedule, attend staff meetings, IEP, ILP, parent teacher conferences, take classes to learn current "best practices" before and after school without getting paid for it? I can compare this job to the jobs of my college friends that put in far less hours with double the pay.
soakup4m After teaching in an affluent public school I realized prior to children that my children would never step foot in school. Here we are seven years later homeschooling and breathing a sigh of relief. Our children love to learn and have many friends, but not everyone can vote with their feet like we have. Our schools should do better.
"THANK YOU, John Stossel, for letting the ugly cat out of the bag!" Cindy Houghton, Gilmanton, NH
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Stupid in America?
Just to wrap things up:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From John Stossel's email:
Apparently the New York City teachers union has changed its mind about me. Before my Education hour ran, their Social Studies Conference wanted to give me an award. Here's their letter:
Dear Mr. Stossel
Our organization, ATSS/UFT, would be proud to present you with the Hubert H. Humphrey Humanitarian Award for the outstanding work which you have done for social causes. Our union, the United Federation of Teachers is a member of the American Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO, and is proud of our long-term commitment to civil rights, tolerance and the furtherance of civic education for our students today. Your development and generous sponsorship of In the Classroom Media provides students with the opportunity to enhance their civics education. This is the highest award that we can give to an individual. Past honorees have included Mario Cuomo, Shirley Chisholm, Charles Schumer, Dolores Huerta, Major Owens, Charles Rangel, and Arturo Rodriguez.
Charles Schumer, Chuck Rangel and me! Alas... after the education show they wrote me to "withdraw our invitation" because my program "so violates the democratic principles of open-mindedness, fairness and balance we hold dear..."
In addition, the union apparently plans to make sure their message is heard. They were granted a police permit for a protest outside ABC next Tuesday. The police say they expect 750-1,000 people. Stay tuned. It should be an interesting Valentine's Day!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From John Stossel's email:
Apparently the New York City teachers union has changed its mind about me. Before my Education hour ran, their Social Studies Conference wanted to give me an award. Here's their letter:
Dear Mr. Stossel
Our organization, ATSS/UFT, would be proud to present you with the Hubert H. Humphrey Humanitarian Award for the outstanding work which you have done for social causes. Our union, the United Federation of Teachers is a member of the American Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO, and is proud of our long-term commitment to civil rights, tolerance and the furtherance of civic education for our students today. Your development and generous sponsorship of In the Classroom Media provides students with the opportunity to enhance their civics education. This is the highest award that we can give to an individual. Past honorees have included Mario Cuomo, Shirley Chisholm, Charles Schumer, Dolores Huerta, Major Owens, Charles Rangel, and Arturo Rodriguez.
Charles Schumer, Chuck Rangel and me! Alas... after the education show they wrote me to "withdraw our invitation" because my program "so violates the democratic principles of open-mindedness, fairness and balance we hold dear..."
In addition, the union apparently plans to make sure their message is heard. They were granted a police permit for a protest outside ABC next Tuesday. The police say they expect 750-1,000 people. Stay tuned. It should be an interesting Valentine's Day!
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Stupid in America?
From Stossel's latest newsletter:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hello all. Hope this note finds you well.
Last week I wrote you to say that this week I would teach school.
Last month, 500 angry schoolteachers assembled outside my office. The United Federation of Teachers (UFT) was furious that "Stupid in America" suggested that some union teachers were lazy. Randi Weingarten, head of New York City's union, took the microphone and hollered, "Just teach for a week!" She said I could select from many schools. "We got high schools, we got elementary schools, we got junior high schools!"
I accepted. I even said I'd let the union pick the school. I thought I'd learn more about how difficult teaching is. Above all, it was a chance to get our cameras into schools--something the N.Y. bureaucracy had forbidden -- so we could show you what was really going on.
But like most of our dealings with the union, nothing was easy. It took weeks of phone calls to make any sort of progress. I suspect this will not surprise public-school parents.
Finally, the union picked a school: Beacon High. Unfortunately, it's not a typical public school--it's "special." Beacon doesn't have the full incentives or flexibility of a private school: It can't go out of business, and it is burdened by bureaucratic rules and a union contract. But Beacon offers a limited form of what the union opposes: school choice. As with a private school, you don't have to go there, and they don't have to take you. Applicants must submit portfolios, and if too few chose Beacon, it wouldn't be able to remain special. To remain what it is, it must compete.
Beacon students have taken field trips to France, South Africa, and tellingly, Venezuela and Cuba. Beacon has rooms filled with computers. Ninety percent of Beacon's students graduate, while the average graduation rate for New York City public schools is only 53 percent.
I guess they didn't want me to look at a normal public school.
But this is the school the UFT picked, and I was up for the challenge. Who knows what I might have learned by teaching?
My producers went to a meeting at the school. The union representative didn't come, so we were told no decisions could be made. Lots of people came to a second meeting at the school: four people from the union, one person from the city Department of Education, and administrators and teachers from Beacon. They decided I might teach history classes and "media studies," but they would have to talk to more people.
You would think my teaching had been my crazy idea.
I prepped for my history classes. We had more meetings. The school principal had me sit in on a class with a "superstar" teacher. It was supposed to a history class, but he seemed to teach "victimhood in racist America." On the class door he posted a New York Times column denouncing the president for spending too much money on war. Can we say "left-wing"?
Then there were more meetings. Finally, after I sent last week's e-mail, they canceled. They said that it might "set a precedent" that would open their doors to other reporters.
Too bad. Letting cameras into schools would be a good thing. Taxpayers might finally get to see how more than $200,000 per classroom of their money was being spent. Maybe that's not something the government school monopoly wants people to see.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hello all. Hope this note finds you well.
Last week I wrote you to say that this week I would teach school.
Last month, 500 angry schoolteachers assembled outside my office. The United Federation of Teachers (UFT) was furious that "Stupid in America" suggested that some union teachers were lazy. Randi Weingarten, head of New York City's union, took the microphone and hollered, "Just teach for a week!" She said I could select from many schools. "We got high schools, we got elementary schools, we got junior high schools!"
I accepted. I even said I'd let the union pick the school. I thought I'd learn more about how difficult teaching is. Above all, it was a chance to get our cameras into schools--something the N.Y. bureaucracy had forbidden -- so we could show you what was really going on.
But like most of our dealings with the union, nothing was easy. It took weeks of phone calls to make any sort of progress. I suspect this will not surprise public-school parents.
Finally, the union picked a school: Beacon High. Unfortunately, it's not a typical public school--it's "special." Beacon doesn't have the full incentives or flexibility of a private school: It can't go out of business, and it is burdened by bureaucratic rules and a union contract. But Beacon offers a limited form of what the union opposes: school choice. As with a private school, you don't have to go there, and they don't have to take you. Applicants must submit portfolios, and if too few chose Beacon, it wouldn't be able to remain special. To remain what it is, it must compete.
Beacon students have taken field trips to France, South Africa, and tellingly, Venezuela and Cuba. Beacon has rooms filled with computers. Ninety percent of Beacon's students graduate, while the average graduation rate for New York City public schools is only 53 percent.
I guess they didn't want me to look at a normal public school.
But this is the school the UFT picked, and I was up for the challenge. Who knows what I might have learned by teaching?
My producers went to a meeting at the school. The union representative didn't come, so we were told no decisions could be made. Lots of people came to a second meeting at the school: four people from the union, one person from the city Department of Education, and administrators and teachers from Beacon. They decided I might teach history classes and "media studies," but they would have to talk to more people.
You would think my teaching had been my crazy idea.
I prepped for my history classes. We had more meetings. The school principal had me sit in on a class with a "superstar" teacher. It was supposed to a history class, but he seemed to teach "victimhood in racist America." On the class door he posted a New York Times column denouncing the president for spending too much money on war. Can we say "left-wing"?
Then there were more meetings. Finally, after I sent last week's e-mail, they canceled. They said that it might "set a precedent" that would open their doors to other reporters.
Too bad. Letting cameras into schools would be a good thing. Taxpayers might finally get to see how more than $200,000 per classroom of their money was being spent. Maybe that's not something the government school monopoly wants people to see.