Dialogue on Ideology Anyone?
Ideology makes the world-go-round and we know less than nothing about ideology because knowing mostly that which is erroneous is equivalent to knowing less-than-nothing.
Ideology is my label for the fundamental matrix of shared coherent beliefs by a social group. An ideology is an umbrella giving coherence to a group of beliefs that allows for the integration quickly of new beliefs. Ideology is a matrix of ideas systematically biased by a social group for the interest of that social group.
It appears to me that ideology is not a subject matter for much study by our universities and colleges. I suspect such to be the case because ideologies do not want the people to become familiar with what ideology is and how it works. If we understand what ideologies are about we will not be so easily manipulated.
I think that anyone wishing to understand ideology and the power it welds must search out its meaning without a great deal of help from those who might be expected to do such things. University professors receive grants from corporations for research and I suspect such funds for the study of ideology are scarce for that reason. I suspect it is always a good idea to “follow the money†when considering such things.
A person might combine within her world view a matrix of ideologies. She might have a religious, political, and social attitude all fortified by a separate ideology. I assume these particular ideologies are integrated in such a manner as to generally fit together under some umbrella ideology. Any one of these ideologies might be dominant and thus necessitating that the others to adjust to a non dominant mode.
These are my views and I am trying to form them in a manner fitting reality. I would like to begin a dialogue with those who might be interested in such matters. Is it possible for use to develop some kind of dialectic whereby we might begin to synthesize various understandings of this important matter?
Always keeping in mind that when a flame war breaks out the game is over. The thread will then serve no usful purpose but ill will and will be locked.
Dialogue on Ideology Anyone?
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chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
Dialogue on Ideology Anyone?
Dialogue on Ideology Anyone?
"Ideology is my label for the fundamental matrix of shared coherent beliefs by a social group. An ideology is an umbrella giving coherence to a group of beliefs that allows for the integration quickly of new beliefs. Ideology is a matrix of ideas systematically biased by a social group for the interest of that social group. "
May we begin with a shared definition of ideology? I liked the beginning of this paragraph, "shared coherent beliefs by a social group." I do not think ideology always allows for integration quickly of new beliefs, usually the opposite occurs. And beginning with a term such as "bias" sets up a negative connotation for other interpretations.
May we begin only with a definition that posters would agree on, before a serious discussion could commence?
*out of context statement*
Why are you worried about a flame war at the end of your post? Has this occurred on other boards where you were posting? This is a forum for discussion, and questions, and answers. Everyone's opinion, as long as it is respectful of the other posters, is not a flame-it is a discussion.
PS Please refer back to me-if you choose to-as either Chonsi, Chonsigirl, bunny or whatever. Please do not use Girl, I know you don't know this, but I am over 50 and kind of do not like that term. Thank you.
"Ideology is my label for the fundamental matrix of shared coherent beliefs by a social group. An ideology is an umbrella giving coherence to a group of beliefs that allows for the integration quickly of new beliefs. Ideology is a matrix of ideas systematically biased by a social group for the interest of that social group. "
May we begin with a shared definition of ideology? I liked the beginning of this paragraph, "shared coherent beliefs by a social group." I do not think ideology always allows for integration quickly of new beliefs, usually the opposite occurs. And beginning with a term such as "bias" sets up a negative connotation for other interpretations.
May we begin only with a definition that posters would agree on, before a serious discussion could commence?
*out of context statement*
Why are you worried about a flame war at the end of your post? Has this occurred on other boards where you were posting? This is a forum for discussion, and questions, and answers. Everyone's opinion, as long as it is respectful of the other posters, is not a flame-it is a discussion.
PS Please refer back to me-if you choose to-as either Chonsi, Chonsigirl, bunny or whatever. Please do not use Girl, I know you don't know this, but I am over 50 and kind of do not like that term. Thank you.
Dialogue on Ideology Anyone?
Chonsi
Sorry no offense intended. I often just grab a handle that I can remember long enough to type it.
You are correct. I agree that your definition might be better for a beginning but I certainly would want to take exception immediately. However I have derived my understanding of ideology from Marx who considers, I think, bias to be a fundamental element of ideology. It seems to me that if we make this too sweet sounding we will have nothing of value to chew on.
I worry about a flame war because I have been in forums wherein any type of opinion about politics and religion must be very carefully handled or they lock up the thread. Also it seems to me that so many people do not want to do anything but flame out with emotional opinions that just turns everything into a shouting match.
Sorry no offense intended. I often just grab a handle that I can remember long enough to type it.
You are correct. I agree that your definition might be better for a beginning but I certainly would want to take exception immediately. However I have derived my understanding of ideology from Marx who considers, I think, bias to be a fundamental element of ideology. It seems to me that if we make this too sweet sounding we will have nothing of value to chew on.
I worry about a flame war because I have been in forums wherein any type of opinion about politics and religion must be very carefully handled or they lock up the thread. Also it seems to me that so many people do not want to do anything but flame out with emotional opinions that just turns everything into a shouting match.
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chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
Dialogue on Ideology Anyone?
Thank you Coberst, you are so kind.So I am correct in assuming that your definition of ideology is based on Marx?
I will think about this, (since I do not agree, there are many definitions for ideology that are just as valid) and respond later since I am at school.
I do not think there will be a flame war on your topic, if it ever gets out of hand they are plenty of people to put out the fire around here.
Dialogue on Ideology Anyone?
Chonsi
"Marx's Theory of Ideology" by Phikhu Paredh is my favorite book on the subject. Marx makes clear that we are all victimes of our own ideology and that we must be constantly on the alert in an attempt to keep the apologetic side under contriol.
The web site www.discourse-in-society.org is a good place to listen in on a college course on ideology. The professor has created an essay that is quite good I think.
"Marx's Theory of Ideology" by Phikhu Paredh is my favorite book on the subject. Marx makes clear that we are all victimes of our own ideology and that we must be constantly on the alert in an attempt to keep the apologetic side under contriol.
The web site www.discourse-in-society.org is a good place to listen in on a college course on ideology. The professor has created an essay that is quite good I think.
Dialogue on Ideology Anyone?
Ideology is a big problem in politics. People latch on to a political party’s ideology and often can’t see that the actions of politicians are often contrary to the ideology. We see that happening with the Bush administration. The republican “ideology†is small, less intrusive into our personal lives, fiscally responsible government, but the current republican administration is one of the most intrusive, fiscally irresponsible administrations in U.S. history. People remain faithful, simply because of the ideology.
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chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
Dialogue on Ideology Anyone?
Beginning Dialogue on the Concept of Ideology:
The concept of Ideology is a model to explain broad concepts within numerous fields. I come from a Social Science background, based in History. This does give a definite viewpoint to my definitions, since mine will differ from other scholars in different Social Science areas, as it will in totally diverse subjects.
Hegel begun his model with Parmenides, “what is rational is real and what is real is rational." Marx built upon this to suggest that Ideology of a culture is constructed of the dominant ideas of the ruling class. These ideals persist because the ruling class and maintains control over the material aspects of their culture.
"The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas; hence of the relationships which make the one class the ruling one, therefore, the ideas of their dominance."
Marx, Karl and Frederick Engels. The German Ideology Part One, with Selections from Parts Two and Three, together with Marx's "Introduction to a Critique of Political Economy." New York: International Publishers, 2001.
The concept of Ideology is a model to explain broad concepts within numerous fields. I come from a Social Science background, based in History. This does give a definite viewpoint to my definitions, since mine will differ from other scholars in different Social Science areas, as it will in totally diverse subjects.
Hegel begun his model with Parmenides, “what is rational is real and what is real is rational." Marx built upon this to suggest that Ideology of a culture is constructed of the dominant ideas of the ruling class. These ideals persist because the ruling class and maintains control over the material aspects of their culture.
"The ruling ideas are nothing more than the ideal expression of the dominant material relationships, the dominant material relationships grasped as ideas; hence of the relationships which make the one class the ruling one, therefore, the ideas of their dominance."
Marx, Karl and Frederick Engels. The German Ideology Part One, with Selections from Parts Two and Three, together with Marx's "Introduction to a Critique of Political Economy." New York: International Publishers, 2001.
Dialogue on Ideology Anyone?
I have a web page of a college course wherein we have a complete course outlined and detailed in ideology and discourse. I think this would be something worth studying for ideas about this matter we wish to discuss.
http://www.discourse-in-society.org/ideo-dis2.htm
Summary
What is ideology? We all use the notion of ideology very often, and so do newspapers and politicians. Most of the time, we do not use it in a very positive sense. We may speak of the ideologies of communism, or neo-liberalism, pacifism or consumerism, and many other -isms, but seldom qualify our own ideas as an "ideology". But what are ideologies exactly?
Ideology in cognition, society and discourse
In this course, a multidisciplinary introduction to the notion of "ideology" is presented --involving cognitive and social psychology, sociology and discourse analysis. The cognitive definition of ideology is given in terms of the social cognitions that are shared by the members of a group. The social dimension explains what kind of groups, relations between groups and institutions are involved in the development and reproduction of ideologies. The discourse dimension of ideologies explains how ideologies influence our daily texts and talk, how we understand ideological discourse, and how discourse is involved in the reproduction of ideology in society.
Racism
Racism is one of the major problems of contemporary European societies. To illustrate the theoretical discussion, we shall therefore specifically pay attention throughout the course to the example of racist ideology and how it is expressed by discourse.
Discourse Structures
Discourse plays a fundamental role in the daily expression and reproduction of ideologies. This course therefore pays special attention to the ways ideologies influence the various levels of discourse structures, from intonation, syntax and images to the many aspects of meaning, such as topics, coherence, presuppositions, metaphors and argumentation, among many more.
________________________________________
Aims
At the end of this course you must be able to:
1. Give an overall definition of ideolog
2. Explain what cognitive aspects an ideology has
3. Explain what social aspects an ideology has
4. Define what racism is
5. Make a systematic ideological analysis of a discourse
6. Analyze more specifically the racist ideology expressed in a discourse
________________________________________
Contents
1. Defining ideology
2. Ideology as Social Cognition
2.1.The structure of ideologies
2.2 From ideology to discourse and vice versa
2.3.Mental Models
2.4.From Mental Models to Discourse
2.5.Context Models
3. Ideologies in Society
4. Racism
5. Ideological Discourse Structures
5.1. Meaning
5.2. Propositional structures
5.3. Formal structures
5.4. Sentence syntax
5.5. Discourse forms
5.6. Argumentation
5.7. Rhetoric
5.8. Action and interaction
6. Examples
7. Conclusion
http://www.discourse-in-society.org/ideo-dis2.htm
Summary
What is ideology? We all use the notion of ideology very often, and so do newspapers and politicians. Most of the time, we do not use it in a very positive sense. We may speak of the ideologies of communism, or neo-liberalism, pacifism or consumerism, and many other -isms, but seldom qualify our own ideas as an "ideology". But what are ideologies exactly?
Ideology in cognition, society and discourse
In this course, a multidisciplinary introduction to the notion of "ideology" is presented --involving cognitive and social psychology, sociology and discourse analysis. The cognitive definition of ideology is given in terms of the social cognitions that are shared by the members of a group. The social dimension explains what kind of groups, relations between groups and institutions are involved in the development and reproduction of ideologies. The discourse dimension of ideologies explains how ideologies influence our daily texts and talk, how we understand ideological discourse, and how discourse is involved in the reproduction of ideology in society.
Racism
Racism is one of the major problems of contemporary European societies. To illustrate the theoretical discussion, we shall therefore specifically pay attention throughout the course to the example of racist ideology and how it is expressed by discourse.
Discourse Structures
Discourse plays a fundamental role in the daily expression and reproduction of ideologies. This course therefore pays special attention to the ways ideologies influence the various levels of discourse structures, from intonation, syntax and images to the many aspects of meaning, such as topics, coherence, presuppositions, metaphors and argumentation, among many more.
________________________________________
Aims
At the end of this course you must be able to:
1. Give an overall definition of ideolog
2. Explain what cognitive aspects an ideology has
3. Explain what social aspects an ideology has
4. Define what racism is
5. Make a systematic ideological analysis of a discourse
6. Analyze more specifically the racist ideology expressed in a discourse
________________________________________
Contents
1. Defining ideology
2. Ideology as Social Cognition
2.1.The structure of ideologies
2.2 From ideology to discourse and vice versa
2.3.Mental Models
2.4.From Mental Models to Discourse
2.5.Context Models
3. Ideologies in Society
4. Racism
5. Ideological Discourse Structures
5.1. Meaning
5.2. Propositional structures
5.3. Formal structures
5.4. Sentence syntax
5.5. Discourse forms
5.6. Argumentation
5.7. Rhetoric
5.8. Action and interaction
6. Examples
7. Conclusion
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chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
Dialogue on Ideology Anyone?
I think it would be more interesting to have our own dialogue, then look at an online course lecture. A definite definition of ideology needs to established, before discourse can begin.
*and the site freezes the computer, although I would have opted for the Spanish version*
*and the site freezes the computer, although I would have opted for the Spanish version*
Dialogue on Ideology Anyone?
Chonsi
Good point. A definition is the first order of business. I do not know if making it very concise now and expanding it later is better than the other way. I suspect your idea might be better.
Good point. A definition is the first order of business. I do not know if making it very concise now and expanding it later is better than the other way. I suspect your idea might be better.
Dialogue on Ideology Anyone?
I would say that ideology is a social (cooperative and interdependent relationship) group with a purpose. The purpose is the care, nurturing, and propagating of an idea. The idea is considered to be very important to the members. There is a strong ‘Us versus Them’ characteristic of the group.
Men and women live, kill, and die for ideology. Nations are born and are destroyed in the name of ideology. Men and women do not love a country they love an idea.
If we abstract the contingencies of various expressions of love I think we find the essence of love to be a particular type of emotion. I think that if we did the same thing with ideology we would find this same loveâ€we would find a big pile of emotion wrapped in a thin veil of reason.
Men and women live, kill, and die for ideology. Nations are born and are destroyed in the name of ideology. Men and women do not love a country they love an idea.
If we abstract the contingencies of various expressions of love I think we find the essence of love to be a particular type of emotion. I think that if we did the same thing with ideology we would find this same loveâ€we would find a big pile of emotion wrapped in a thin veil of reason.