Suicidal man causes train crash

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 3:54 pm

http://olympics.reuters.com/newsArticle ... ID=7441117

A suicidal man parks his SUV on the train tracks, then changes his mind, LEAVES the car on the tracks, and stands by and watches while it causes an accident, derailing 2 trains and killing at least 10 people.

They are charging him with first-degree murder. Do you think this is an appropriate charge?

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:00 pm

first-degree requires premeditation and INTENT to kill, among other elements. it's likely they will reduce it after they explore options.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:03 pm

if he stood by and watched, i'd consider it premeditated intent to kill. i don't care how stupid or depressed he was, he's responsible for his actions, and his actions were the proximate cause of the deaths.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:14 pm

anastrophe wrote: if he stood by and watched, i'd consider it premeditated intent to kill. i don't care how stupid or depressed he was, he's responsible for his actions, and his actions were the proximate cause of the deaths.
did he stand there and watch? i didn't read article. just saw it briefly on news. proximate cause is the weight in civil action, i'm afarid the prosecutors would be overcharging with a first degree. they could win on vehicular homicide, manslaughter, and lots of lesser-includeds...and still get ten consecutive life terms.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:15 pm

lady cop wrote: did he stand there and watch? i didn't read article. just saw it briefly on news. proximate cause is the weight in civil action, i'm afarid the prosecutors would be overcharging with a first degree. they could win on vehicular homicide, manslaughter, and lots of lesser-includeds...and still get ten consecutive life terms.
works for me.

Cass · Post by **Cass** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 4:17 pm

I think he will plead not guilty - insanity.

After all he was depressed and trying to end his life blah blah blah :rolleyes:

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:07 am

BabyRider wrote: A suicidal man parks his SUV on the train tracks, then changes his mind, LEAVES the car on the tracks, and stands by and watches while it causes an accident, derailing 2 trains and killing at least 10 people.

They are charging him with first-degree murder. Do you think this is an appropriate charge?

It seems that the car was *stuck* on the tracks.... whether that makes a difference or not, it seems, from a cursory glance at the definition of murder{1,2} etc. in the USA, and the article, that a manslaughter charge is most appropriate.

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:13 am

It's a bit like the guy here, who fell asleep at the wheel and ran off the road into an oncoming train... There was debate as to what he should be charged with.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:02 am

i heard the DA in that jurisdiction speak this morning...it seems that in CA he CAN be charged with first-degree because leaving the car on tracks shows intent. they have not, however, decided on whether to seek death. also...the death toll is rising. alvarez will be arraigned on 11 counts of murder at 1700 eastern today.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:54 pm

Bill Sikes wrote: It seems that the car was *stuck* on the tracks.... whether that makes a difference or not, it seems, from a cursory glance at the definition of murder{1,2} etc. in the USA, and the article, that a manslaughter charge is most appropriate.
So the car was stuck, so what? He stood there and WATCHED. No effort to stop the accident, no attempt to call 911 and warn someone. There was probably nothing that could have been done, but that dosen't mean you don't TRY. Show some concern for the people on the trains. I think that is the fact that's ultimately going to hang him, and I hope I'm right.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 5:09 am

BabyRider wrote: So the car was stuck, so what? He stood there and WATCHED. No effort to stop the accident, no attempt to call 911 and warn someone. There was probably nothing that could have been done, but that dosen't mean you don't TRY. Show some concern for the people on the trains. I think that is the fact that's ultimately going to hang him, and I hope I'm right.

The question was "They are charging him with first-degree murder. Do you think this is an appropriate charge?". I answered it as accurately as I could in the circumstances. If you want to ask me any other opinions, feel free.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:22 pm

Bill Sikes wrote: The question was "They are charging him with first-degree murder. Do you think this is an appropriate charge?". I answered it as accurately as I could in the circumstances. If you want to ask me any other opinions, feel free.
Apologies for sounding short, that's not how I meant it. And there wasn't an appropriate smiley to show my intent.