The other day, I went to buy some beer.
The lady behind the counter said, "I need your I.D."
Pleasantly, I showed it to her.
She said, "I need you to take it out of your wallet."
Mystified, I asked, "Why do I need to do that?"
She replied, "So I can scan it."
I thought about it, "No thank you."
She seemed surprised that I would not easily go along.
So I told her, "If you scan my license, that information will be put in a database, then after my health insurance company finds out that I drink beer, they will raise my rates."
She acted as if I was a loon.
But I know what she doesn't: They are watching.
They're Watching You . . .
NO PLACE TO HIDE •
Behind the Scenes of Our Emerging Surveillance Society
By Robert O' Harrow Jr. Free Press. 348 pp. $26
We live in an ever more convenient society. We use credit cards, buy books on Amazon, reserve plane tickets on Expedia, bid for antiques on eBay, get cash at ATMs and find jobs on Monster. We use key cards to open hotel rooms, EZ-Pass to pay tolls and GPS to get directions. We send e-mail, fill prescriptions and sexual needs on the Internet, and pay bills electronically.
These conveniences generate data. In the "old" days, we did not leave behind a readily accessible, electronic trail of our purchases, conversations, whereabouts and transactions. We took for granted the anonymity and privacy of our ordinary, day-to-day lives. No more. Today, we are constantly tagged, monitored, studied, sorted and tracked by a vast array of institutions and organizations -- private and public. As Robert O'Harrow Jr. details in No Place to Hide, it is worse than we could ever have imagined. In this revealing book, O'Harrow makes clear that Americans need to think seriously about these issues now -- before it is too late for us to decide that we care.
O'Harrow unveils a modern world riddled with seemingly innocuous private businesses, government agencies and software programs with such obscure names as ChoicePoint, Acxiom, Matrix, DARPA, Seisint, HOLe and NORA. Unbeknownst to most of us, these institutions and technologies are relentlessly compiling information about our names, addresses, license plates, Social Security numbers, religions, incomes, family members, sexual orientations, friends, purchases, mortgages, bank accounts, credit card transactions, credit standing, parking tickets, criminal arrests and convictions, Web browsing, e-mail correspondence, newspaper and magazine preferences, cell phone activity, vacations, fingerprints, insurance coverage, facial images, DNA, drug prescriptions and beer of choice. Computers have made possible what was barely science fiction 20 years ago.
How do they get this information? For the most part, we give it to them, though usually unwittingly, with almost every step we take. Over the past several years, with the help of increasingly sophisticated computing systems and advances in artificial intelligence, these institutions and organizations have accumulated billions of data points about American citizens, which they then share with or sell to one another and to the government. As O'Harrow notes, "personal data has become a commodity that is bought and sold essentially like sow bellies."
Why do these companies and agencies do this? For you, of course. By gathering and sharing such data, they protect you from identify theft and credit card fraud, enable marketers to offer you precisely the right products to satisfy your tastes and needs, ensure that your fellow passengers are not terrorists, locate missing children and deadbeat dads, help police catch smugglers and murderers, and generally provide a safer society. And, in fact, they really do these things.
So what's the problem? Should we care that there's no place to hide? What dangers are posed by this more convenient, more secure society? In this chilling narrative, O'Harrow identifies the risks and vividly illustrates them with powerful real-life stories.
First, there is the simple risk of mistake. The data in these systems, according to Ole Poulsen, one of HOLe's creators, are "full of errors and noise and wrong information." As a result, individuals are denied insurance, credit, employment, the right to board an airplane, and even the right to vote when the system spins out inaccurate information. And, as O'Harrow persuasively demonstrates, correcting the record can be a nightmare.
Second, there is the risk of public disclosure. We regard much of this information as private. But hackers can all too easily capture it and use it to humiliate, blackmail and impersonate us. The Federal Trade Commission reports that in a typical year, 10 million Americans were the victims of identity theft, resulting in bounced checks, loan denials, harassment from debt collectors, cancelled insurance and false accusations of criminal conduct.
Third, there is the risk that government will use this information not only to ferret out terrorists, but also to suppress dissent and impose conformity. In the 1990s, this technology was developed primarily by private companies to enable marketers to target and profile consumers. After Sept. 11, however, the FBI, CIA, NSA, Justice Department and Department of Homeland Security aggressively sought access to these business databases, creating a vast private-public partnership in the exchange of such information.
Moreover, the USA Patriot Act took full advantage of the post-9/11 crisis mentality and authorized a wide range of previously restricted government surveillance and data-gathering activities. Although the stated goal of these activities is to ensure our security, history teaches that once government has such information, it will inevitably use it to harass and silence those who question its policies.
Finally, O'Harrow warns that such massive invasion of privacy and intrusion into our ordinary anonymity may well alter the very fabric of our society. Once we understand that our every move is being tracked, monitored, recorded and collated, will we retain our essential sense of individual autonomy and personal dignity? Can freedom flourish in such a society? Is this the long awaited coming of 1984, the Brave New World of the 21st century, or will we somehow continue business, and life, as usual?:yh_nailbi
They Are Watching You
They Are Watching You
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
They Are Watching You
Sounds like an interesting read.
Amazon has it for $17.16 new and used beginning at $7.98.
What conclusions did you draw when you finished the book? Have you changed anything about how you are transacting your personal business?
Amazon has it for $17.16 new and used beginning at $7.98.
What conclusions did you draw when you finished the book? Have you changed anything about how you are transacting your personal business?
They Are Watching You
Jives wrote: Moreover, the USA Patriot Act took full advantage of the post-9/11 crisis mentality and authorized a wide range of previously restricted government surveillance and data-gathering activities. Although the stated goal of these activities is to ensure our security, history teaches that once government has such information, it will inevitably use it to harass and silence those who question its policies.As a brief comment on this - who'd like to guess how many people are on the terrorism watch list by now? The last hard figure I saw was 325,000.
I'm not spending all day reading the Congressional Record, honestly, but Senator Russ Feingold's speech last Wednesday (February 15) has backing for Jives' argument. The source is http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin ... 006_record and if anyone wants to search the record for other detail, they can do it from http://thomas.loc.gov/home/r109query.html :
Section 215 of the Patriot Act allows the government to obtain secret court orders in domestic intelligence investigations to get all kinds of business records about people, including not just library records, but also medical records and various other types of business records. The Patriot Act allowed the government to obtain these records as long as they were "sought for" a terrorism investigation. That's a very low standard. It didn't require that the records concern someone who was suspected of being a terrorist or spy, or even suspected of being connected to a terrorist or spy. It didn't require any demonstration of how the records would be useful in the investigation. Under Section 215, if the government simply said it wanted records for a terrorism investigation the secret FISA court was required to issue the order - period. To make matters worse, recipients of these orders are also subject to an automatic gag order. They cannot tell anyone that they have been asked for records.
Now some in the Administration, and even in this body, took the position that people shouldn't be able to criticize these provisions until they could come up with a specific example of "abuse." The Attorney General has repeatedly made that same argument, and he did so again in December in an op-ed in the Washington Post when he dismissed concerns about the Patriot Act by saying that "[t]here have been no verified civil liberties abuses in the four years of the act's existence." First of all, that has always struck me as a strange argument since 215 orders are issued by a secret court and people who receive them are prohibited by law from discussing them. In other words, the law is designed so that it's almost impossible to know if abuses have occurred.
But even more importantly, the claim about lack of abuses just isn't credible given what we now know about how this Administration views the surveillance laws that this body writes. We now know that for the past four-plus years, the government has been wiretapping the international communications of Americans inside the United States, without obtaining the wiretap orders required by statute. You want to talk about abuses? I can't imagine a more shocking example of an abuse of power, than to violate the law by eavesdropping on American citizens without first getting a court order based on some evidence that they are possibly criminals, terrorists or spies. So I don't want to hear again from the Attorney General or anyone on this floor that this government has shown it can be trusted to use the power we give it with restraint and care.
... Just as with Section 215, the Patriot Act expanded the NSL [National Security Letter] authorities to allow the government to use them to obtain records of people who are not suspected of being, or even of being connected to, terrorists or spies. The government need only certify that the documents are either sought for or relevant to an authorized intelligence investigation, a far-reaching standard that could be used to obtain all kinds of records about innocent Americans. And just as with Section 215, the recipient is subject to an automatic, permanent gag rule.
I'm not spending all day reading the Congressional Record, honestly, but Senator Russ Feingold's speech last Wednesday (February 15) has backing for Jives' argument. The source is http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin ... 006_record and if anyone wants to search the record for other detail, they can do it from http://thomas.loc.gov/home/r109query.html :
Section 215 of the Patriot Act allows the government to obtain secret court orders in domestic intelligence investigations to get all kinds of business records about people, including not just library records, but also medical records and various other types of business records. The Patriot Act allowed the government to obtain these records as long as they were "sought for" a terrorism investigation. That's a very low standard. It didn't require that the records concern someone who was suspected of being a terrorist or spy, or even suspected of being connected to a terrorist or spy. It didn't require any demonstration of how the records would be useful in the investigation. Under Section 215, if the government simply said it wanted records for a terrorism investigation the secret FISA court was required to issue the order - period. To make matters worse, recipients of these orders are also subject to an automatic gag order. They cannot tell anyone that they have been asked for records.
Now some in the Administration, and even in this body, took the position that people shouldn't be able to criticize these provisions until they could come up with a specific example of "abuse." The Attorney General has repeatedly made that same argument, and he did so again in December in an op-ed in the Washington Post when he dismissed concerns about the Patriot Act by saying that "[t]here have been no verified civil liberties abuses in the four years of the act's existence." First of all, that has always struck me as a strange argument since 215 orders are issued by a secret court and people who receive them are prohibited by law from discussing them. In other words, the law is designed so that it's almost impossible to know if abuses have occurred.
But even more importantly, the claim about lack of abuses just isn't credible given what we now know about how this Administration views the surveillance laws that this body writes. We now know that for the past four-plus years, the government has been wiretapping the international communications of Americans inside the United States, without obtaining the wiretap orders required by statute. You want to talk about abuses? I can't imagine a more shocking example of an abuse of power, than to violate the law by eavesdropping on American citizens without first getting a court order based on some evidence that they are possibly criminals, terrorists or spies. So I don't want to hear again from the Attorney General or anyone on this floor that this government has shown it can be trusted to use the power we give it with restraint and care.
... Just as with Section 215, the Patriot Act expanded the NSL [National Security Letter] authorities to allow the government to use them to obtain records of people who are not suspected of being, or even of being connected to, terrorists or spies. The government need only certify that the documents are either sought for or relevant to an authorized intelligence investigation, a far-reaching standard that could be used to obtain all kinds of records about innocent Americans. And just as with Section 215, the recipient is subject to an automatic, permanent gag rule.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
They Are Watching You
SOJOURNER wrote: Have you changed anything about how you are transacting your personal business?
Yep! Two things that I never do anymore:
1. Give my driver's license to people to scan.
2. Give ANYONE my social security number.
One thing I always do now:
3. Always check my fly before I enter the store.
I also make sure to give false information on my Safeway's and Smith's grocery cards.
I usually use Abraham Lincoln as the cardholder's name. Somewhere, someone is puzzling over the fact that Abraham Lincoln seems to drink a lot of beer and regularly purchases Official Playstation magazine. Abraham also seems to rent an inordinate amount of science fiction movies.
Lucky for me, Abraham Lincoln's health insurance company will never be able to raise his rates.:wah:
Yep! Two things that I never do anymore:
1. Give my driver's license to people to scan.
2. Give ANYONE my social security number.
One thing I always do now:
3. Always check my fly before I enter the store.
I also make sure to give false information on my Safeway's and Smith's grocery cards.
I usually use Abraham Lincoln as the cardholder's name. Somewhere, someone is puzzling over the fact that Abraham Lincoln seems to drink a lot of beer and regularly purchases Official Playstation magazine. Abraham also seems to rent an inordinate amount of science fiction movies.
Lucky for me, Abraham Lincoln's health insurance company will never be able to raise his rates.:wah:
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
They Are Watching You
It's a hi-tech version of J.Edgar from the 50s and 60s.
i have been preaching about the ills of the "Patriot Act" since it was first devised. too broad and too vague.
and this whole things fits right in with Washington's new buzz phrase...
"If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about."
21st Century McCarthyism.
i have been preaching about the ills of the "Patriot Act" since it was first devised. too broad and too vague.
and this whole things fits right in with Washington's new buzz phrase...
"If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about."
21st Century McCarthyism.
Get your mind out of the gutter - it's blocking my view
Mind like a steel trap - Rusty and Illegal in 37 states.
They Are Watching You
I don't mind who's watching. I'm damn sexy and know it!! 
They Are Watching You
jennyswan wrote: I don't mind who's watching. I'm damn sexy and know it!!
lol. You got that right! New research says that you are on camera an average of 17 times a day, so you have a pretty big audience, Jenny!
Think about it, Did you cross any intersections? You were on camera there. Did you enter any stores? Get gasoline? Go in any state buildings? Park in any parking lots?
Cameras everywhere!
Personally, I have fun when the cashier says, "Thank you for shopping with us, Mr. Lincoln!":wah:
lol. You got that right! New research says that you are on camera an average of 17 times a day, so you have a pretty big audience, Jenny!
Think about it, Did you cross any intersections? You were on camera there. Did you enter any stores? Get gasoline? Go in any state buildings? Park in any parking lots?
Cameras everywhere!
Personally, I have fun when the cashier says, "Thank you for shopping with us, Mr. Lincoln!":wah:
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
They Are Watching You
and that shiite the mayor of Houston is trying to get passed. if you or someone living with you has the police called on them more than twice, the city is going to put a camera in your house.
Get your mind out of the gutter - it's blocking my view
Mind like a steel trap - Rusty and Illegal in 37 states.
They Are Watching You
lol. You got that right! New research says that you are on camera an average of 17 times a day, so you have a pretty big audience, Jenny!
Think about it, Did you cross any intersections? You were on camera there. Did you enter any stores? Get gasoline? Go in any state buildings? Park in any parking lots?
Cameras everywhere!
Personally, I have fun when the cashier says, "Thank you for shopping with us, Mr. Lincoln!"
I probably worry way too little, but I think somethings are destiny and if something bad is gonna happen it will happen anyway so sitting about worrying about it won't change it. Life is for living, don't be the leaf hanging on for life in Autumn, be the leaf that floats off with the first wind to see where it might land
Think about it, Did you cross any intersections? You were on camera there. Did you enter any stores? Get gasoline? Go in any state buildings? Park in any parking lots?
Cameras everywhere!
Personally, I have fun when the cashier says, "Thank you for shopping with us, Mr. Lincoln!"
I probably worry way too little, but I think somethings are destiny and if something bad is gonna happen it will happen anyway so sitting about worrying about it won't change it. Life is for living, don't be the leaf hanging on for life in Autumn, be the leaf that floats off with the first wind to see where it might land
They Are Watching You
Perhaps the reality shows, which are currently so very popular, are part of the big plot to numb us into submission.....
They Are Watching You
whoooweeee Jives it all sounds rather frightful, here in Canada a DL scan would be a huge breech of our privacy act . We are told constantly that NOBODY but our bank and employer can have our SIN (social insurance numbers). And we do not put our SIN's on resumes or post them on monster or any other Resume/job search place.
Our banks do everything in their power to ensure we have online privacy and security out the nostrils. I know it all isn't fool proof after all a fool is easily fooled right.... But We try.
Our banks do everything in their power to ensure we have online privacy and security out the nostrils. I know it all isn't fool proof after all a fool is easily fooled right.... But We try.
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
• Mae West
• Mae West
They Are Watching You
jennyswan wrote: don't be the leaf hanging on for life in Autumn, be the leaf that floats off with the first wind to see where it might land
And I agree! Otherwise I wouldn't be so fearless posting basically my life story on this web site! LOL!
But of course, I am interested in making sure no one is raking in my leaves while they are floating down! I also don't want anyone stealing my leaves! (Think Adam and Eve):D
And I agree! Otherwise I wouldn't be so fearless posting basically my life story on this web site! LOL!
But of course, I am interested in making sure no one is raking in my leaves while they are floating down! I also don't want anyone stealing my leaves! (Think Adam and Eve):D
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
They Are Watching You
And I agree! Otherwise I wouldn't be so fearless posting basically my life story on this web site! LOL!
But of course, I am interested in making sure no one os raking in my leaves while they are floating down! I also don't want anyone stealing my leaves! (Think Adam and Eve)
:wah:
Let it rain on me!!
Attached files
But of course, I am interested in making sure no one os raking in my leaves while they are floating down! I also don't want anyone stealing my leaves! (Think Adam and Eve)
:wah:
Let it rain on me!!
Attached files
-
DesignerGal
- Posts: 2554
- Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:20 am
They Are Watching You
DesignerGal wrote: I have Brinks home security, so I'll stay home for awhile.That's plain narcissistic.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
They Are Watching You
Hey, at least she KNOWS who's watching her house!:wah:
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
They Are Watching You
Jives wrote: The other day, I went to buy some beer.
The lady behind the counter said, "I need your I.D."
Pleasantly, I showed it to her.
She said, "I need you to take it out of your wallet."
Mystified, I asked, "Why do I need to do that?"
She replied, "So I can scan it."
I thought about it, "No thank you."
She seemed surprised that I would not easily go along.
So I told her, "If you scan my license, that information will be put in a database, then after my health insurance company finds out that I drink beer, they will raise my rates."
She acted as if I was a loon.
But I know what she doesn't: They are watching.
If I may ask.....What method of payment did you intend to use to purchase this beer Jives? I would assume that if it were a cash transaction, they wouldn't have asked you to show ID. Why didn't you ask this woman for more details about why they scan a license at this establishment, instead of accepting her short response and then politely replying no thank you?
The lady behind the counter said, "I need your I.D."
Pleasantly, I showed it to her.
She said, "I need you to take it out of your wallet."
Mystified, I asked, "Why do I need to do that?"
She replied, "So I can scan it."
I thought about it, "No thank you."
She seemed surprised that I would not easily go along.
So I told her, "If you scan my license, that information will be put in a database, then after my health insurance company finds out that I drink beer, they will raise my rates."
She acted as if I was a loon.
But I know what she doesn't: They are watching.
If I may ask.....What method of payment did you intend to use to purchase this beer Jives? I would assume that if it were a cash transaction, they wouldn't have asked you to show ID. Why didn't you ask this woman for more details about why they scan a license at this establishment, instead of accepting her short response and then politely replying no thank you?
They Are Watching You
Can't see that there's anything that we can do to stop this. Short of an uprising. 1984, and we all bought in to it, albeit, unwittingly.
It's good to be aware of it, though. (And they complain about the companies operating in China.)
It's good to be aware of it, though. (And they complain about the companies operating in China.)
They Are Watching You
I tried to cash a check at a bank that wasnt mine.. years ago. They said" We have to finger print you. I was outraged. Absolutely Not! Ive never been finger printed in my life, and now this is the way your going to get me in the system? I knew then and there that any harboured contemplation I might have given to becoming a cat burlar or charming jewel thief would be over. What would happen if I needed that extra income moonlighting?
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif][/FONT]
They Are Watching You
Lil~Basco wrote: If I may ask.....What method of payment did you intend to use to purchase this beer Jives? I would assume that if it were a cash transaction, they wouldn't have asked you to show ID.
Yeah, it was cash, they card everyone around here, New Mexico's the capital of drunk driving in the U.S. We have people here that have up to 15 DWI's and are still driving around.
Besides, I couldn't very well use my ATM card, could I? They'd still get a record of it!
Why didn't you ask this woman for more details about why they scan a license at this establishment, instead of accepting her short response and then politely replying no thank you?
No need to, I know exactly why they "say" they need to. They tell us it's to make sure that everyone's license is real, but that's a joke because two years ago, they came out with an almost counterfeit-proof license with a hologram on it!
So why do they really want to scan it? Simple: To find out who's buying beer. Easier to locate the drunk drivers, easier for insurance companies to deny coverage.
Yeah, it was cash, they card everyone around here, New Mexico's the capital of drunk driving in the U.S. We have people here that have up to 15 DWI's and are still driving around.
Besides, I couldn't very well use my ATM card, could I? They'd still get a record of it!
Why didn't you ask this woman for more details about why they scan a license at this establishment, instead of accepting her short response and then politely replying no thank you?
No need to, I know exactly why they "say" they need to. They tell us it's to make sure that everyone's license is real, but that's a joke because two years ago, they came out with an almost counterfeit-proof license with a hologram on it!
So why do they really want to scan it? Simple: To find out who's buying beer. Easier to locate the drunk drivers, easier for insurance companies to deny coverage.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
They Are Watching You
Jives wrote: Yeah, it was cash, they card everyone around here, New Mexico's the capital of drunk driving in the U.S. We have people here that have up to 15 DWI's and are still driving around.
Besides, I couldn't very well use my ATM card, could I? They'd still get a record of it!
No need to, I know exactly why they "say" they need to. They tell us it's to make sure that everyone's license is real, but that's a joke because two years ago, they came out with an almost counterfeit-proof license with a hologram on it!
So why do they really want to scan it? Simple: To find out who's buying beer. Easier to locate the drunk drivers, easier for insurance companies to deny coverage.
Ahhhh...a note of sarcasm with the ATM card.
Pennsylvania has the same hologram license too. However, in my State, and I don't know if yours is the same, we cannot purchase alcoholic beverages in a grocery store. Therefore, we either frequent a beer distributor for...beer, or a State Liquor store for.....liquor or other types of spirits.
The only swiping of driver's licenses in this State is done so by law enforcement to enter your information into the computers they now have installed in their cruisers.
I find it hard to believe that a State would take a census of beer consumers.:rolleyes:
Besides, I couldn't very well use my ATM card, could I? They'd still get a record of it!
No need to, I know exactly why they "say" they need to. They tell us it's to make sure that everyone's license is real, but that's a joke because two years ago, they came out with an almost counterfeit-proof license with a hologram on it!
So why do they really want to scan it? Simple: To find out who's buying beer. Easier to locate the drunk drivers, easier for insurance companies to deny coverage.
Ahhhh...a note of sarcasm with the ATM card.
Pennsylvania has the same hologram license too. However, in my State, and I don't know if yours is the same, we cannot purchase alcoholic beverages in a grocery store. Therefore, we either frequent a beer distributor for...beer, or a State Liquor store for.....liquor or other types of spirits.
The only swiping of driver's licenses in this State is done so by law enforcement to enter your information into the computers they now have installed in their cruisers.
I find it hard to believe that a State would take a census of beer consumers.:rolleyes:
They Are Watching You
Lil~Basco wrote: in my State, and I don't know if yours is the same, we cannot purchase alcoholic beverages in a grocery store. Therefore, we either frequent a beer distributor for...beer, or a State Liquor store for.....liquor or other types of spirits.
You must live in Utah, sorry to hear that. Unless, of course you are Mormon, in which case, it's nice to have your own state!
(edit: Oh, I just saw the Pennsylvania note, now I'm confused.)
I find it hard to believe that a State would take a census of beer consumers.:rolleyes:
I'm not so much worried about that, I'm just worried that if the health insurance companies get a hold of that info, they will raise my rates. After all, beer drinkers have worse health. Possibly my car insurance company would too, eve though I never drink and drive.
I hate insurance companies!
:mad:
You must live in Utah, sorry to hear that. Unless, of course you are Mormon, in which case, it's nice to have your own state!
(edit: Oh, I just saw the Pennsylvania note, now I'm confused.)
I find it hard to believe that a State would take a census of beer consumers.:rolleyes:
I'm not so much worried about that, I'm just worried that if the health insurance companies get a hold of that info, they will raise my rates. After all, beer drinkers have worse health. Possibly my car insurance company would too, eve though I never drink and drive.
I hate insurance companies!
:mad:
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
They Are Watching You
Jives wrote: You must live in Utah, sorry to hear that. Unless, of course you are Mormon, in which case, it's nice to have your own state!
(edit: Oh, I just saw the Pennsylvania note, now I'm confused.)
I'm not so much worried about that, I'm just worried that if the health insurance companies get a hold of that info, they will raise my rates. After all, beer drinkers have worse health. Possibly my car insurance company would too, eve though I never drink and drive.
I hate insurance companies!
:mad:
My, my, my Jives...what a fixation you must have with Utah and the mormons.
Simple solution Jives....quit drinking. Problem solved! I mean really....if beer drinkers have such lousy health, then I would say they'd be a lousy lover also. Agree???? :p
(edit: Oh, I just saw the Pennsylvania note, now I'm confused.)
I'm not so much worried about that, I'm just worried that if the health insurance companies get a hold of that info, they will raise my rates. After all, beer drinkers have worse health. Possibly my car insurance company would too, eve though I never drink and drive.
I hate insurance companies!
:mad:
My, my, my Jives...what a fixation you must have with Utah and the mormons.
Simple solution Jives....quit drinking. Problem solved! I mean really....if beer drinkers have such lousy health, then I would say they'd be a lousy lover also. Agree???? :p
They Are Watching You
Wow! That is bizarre! Scanning your drivers while you buy beer? This is the first I've ever heard of this. People in store have asked me my address for their computers...I always wondered why and in most cases I say no just cause its none of their business. I'm buying a shirt why do you care where I live? At least we still have the right to say no. Can you imagine if we didn't:( ? Our governments are probably working on that though...all in the name of our ''protection''...yeh right.:sneaky:
They Are Watching You
Lil~Basco wrote: My, my, my Jives...what a fixation you must have with Utah and the mormons.
It's not just me, I live real close to where that polygamous Mormon enclave is. We all don't like what they do, especially to the little girls.
I know lots and lots of very nice Mormons here in town that are not polygamous, though. I actually agree with their mandates on a one year food supply and survival gear. It's good common sense!
Simple solution Jives....quit drinking. Problem solved!
True, but then I'd have to deal with my other problems.:wah:
I mean really....if beer drinkers have such lousy health, then I would say they'd be a lousy lover also. Agree???? :p
What the...? Was that a proposition?
It's not just me, I live real close to where that polygamous Mormon enclave is. We all don't like what they do, especially to the little girls.
I know lots and lots of very nice Mormons here in town that are not polygamous, though. I actually agree with their mandates on a one year food supply and survival gear. It's good common sense!
Simple solution Jives....quit drinking. Problem solved!
True, but then I'd have to deal with my other problems.:wah:
I mean really....if beer drinkers have such lousy health, then I would say they'd be a lousy lover also. Agree???? :p
What the...? Was that a proposition?
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
They Are Watching You
Jives wrote:
True, but then I'd have to deal with my other problems.:wah:
What the...? Was that a proposition?
Dear, dear Jives....don't flatter yourself, kay
The men I choose to let into my life don't consume alcohol to deal with problems or any other aspect of their lives.
The only intention to my post was in quoting you....that "beer drinkers have lousy health". In turn, lousy health would filter into other aspects of functioning....sexual, physical and/or mental impairments, would it not? Sure it would. So the most sensible solution would be to give up the consumption of beer, stay healthy and the insurance companies would stay off ones back, thus no rate hikes.
True, but then I'd have to deal with my other problems.:wah:
What the...? Was that a proposition?
Dear, dear Jives....don't flatter yourself, kay
The men I choose to let into my life don't consume alcohol to deal with problems or any other aspect of their lives.
The only intention to my post was in quoting you....that "beer drinkers have lousy health". In turn, lousy health would filter into other aspects of functioning....sexual, physical and/or mental impairments, would it not? Sure it would. So the most sensible solution would be to give up the consumption of beer, stay healthy and the insurance companies would stay off ones back, thus no rate hikes.
They Are Watching You
Lil~Basco wrote: Dear, dear Jives....don't flatter yourself, kay
The men I choose to let into my life don't consume alcohol to deal with problems or any other aspect of their lives.
The only intention to my post was in quoting you....that "beer drinkers have lousy health". In turn, lousy health would filter into other aspects of functioning....sexual, physical and/or mental impairments, would it not? Sure it would. So the most sensible solution would be to give up the consumption of beer, stay healthy and the insurance companies would stay off ones back, thus no rate hikes.
Heavy drinkers, be it -beer, liquor, wine- have serious health problems. no one can deny that. but a six pack over a weekend.... what's wrong with that?
The men I choose to let into my life don't consume alcohol to deal with problems or any other aspect of their lives.
The only intention to my post was in quoting you....that "beer drinkers have lousy health". In turn, lousy health would filter into other aspects of functioning....sexual, physical and/or mental impairments, would it not? Sure it would. So the most sensible solution would be to give up the consumption of beer, stay healthy and the insurance companies would stay off ones back, thus no rate hikes.
Heavy drinkers, be it -beer, liquor, wine- have serious health problems. no one can deny that. but a six pack over a weekend.... what's wrong with that?
Get your mind out of the gutter - it's blocking my view
Mind like a steel trap - Rusty and Illegal in 37 states.
They Are Watching You
Wolverine wrote: Heavy drinkers, be it -beer, liquor, wine- have serious health problems. no one can deny that. but a six pack over a weekend.... what's wrong with that?
That's true, Wolverine! Just how much are we willing to conform? And don't we all enjoy a little personal freedom in our habits?
And where would it all end, Basco? No more red meat unless you wanted to pay higher rates? What if you are overweight? I'm not, but I can certainly see health insurance companies charging more for that.
What if your database reveals you eat a lot of candy and chocolate? If I had that info and I ran a dental insurance program, you can bet I'd charge you more!
This is what this thread is all about, companies getting access to every detail of your private life...and possibly using it against you!
So you don't have a single unhealthy habit, Basco? No traffic tickets? No funny reading material? No wine with dinner? Never been fired from a job? Never eat at fast food restaurants?
If that's true...you're a far better person than I!:D
That's true, Wolverine! Just how much are we willing to conform? And don't we all enjoy a little personal freedom in our habits?
And where would it all end, Basco? No more red meat unless you wanted to pay higher rates? What if you are overweight? I'm not, but I can certainly see health insurance companies charging more for that.
What if your database reveals you eat a lot of candy and chocolate? If I had that info and I ran a dental insurance program, you can bet I'd charge you more!
This is what this thread is all about, companies getting access to every detail of your private life...and possibly using it against you!
So you don't have a single unhealthy habit, Basco? No traffic tickets? No funny reading material? No wine with dinner? Never been fired from a job? Never eat at fast food restaurants?
If that's true...you're a far better person than I!:D
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare