Nine year old Joey was asked by his mother what he had learned in Sunday school.
“Well, Mom, our teacher told us how God sent Moses behind enemy lines on a rescue mission to lead the Israelites out of Egypt. When he got to the Red Sea, he had his engineers build a pontoon bridge and all the people walked across safely. Then he used his walkie-talkie to radio headquarters for reinforcements. They sent bombers to blow up the bridge and all the Israelites were saved.â€
“Now, Joey, is that really what your teacher taught you?†his mother asked.
“Well, no, Mom. But, if I told it the way the teacher did, you’d never believe it!â€
These days, if the Red Sea crossing had been captured on VHS, the same doubters would say it was trick photography or elaborate special effects. They doubt because they want to. Not doubting means there is an all powerful God they need to submit to.
They choose not to have faith
They choose not to have faith
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
-
A Karenina
- Posts: 968
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 am
They choose not to have faith
Clint, I'm going to jump in here and say thank you, from the heart. I'm unable to PM you or email you, so this is my public offering.
There's a lot of truth in what you're saying. People often believe what they want to, ignoring parts that they don't like or don't want to accept.
Using the Moses story, I've always felt that it is entirely possible this happened through some kind of natural disaster...think tsunami pictures. The fact that it happened at the precise moment it was needed is the miracle.
The same with the walls of Jericho. Archaelogists studied the site, and someone reputable (National Geographic?) produced a documentary on it. I'm dredging this up from memory, so it won't be well done.
It seems that Jericho was built on unstable ground. The constant marching of hundreds of men combined with the blowing of the horn (shofar?) was enough to bring the walls down. There is a scientific explanation behind the event, and yet the miracle is NOT the walls coming down. To me, the miracle lies in those men marching endlessly, not sure how it would happen but believing in a promise made to them.
If this is all true, that the miracle lies in faith, not in scientific reasons for events, then it's true that many of us would deny it. It places a burden on us.
Without commenting yet on that burden, is this what you're getting at? Or have I completely missed the mark?
There's a lot of truth in what you're saying. People often believe what they want to, ignoring parts that they don't like or don't want to accept.
Using the Moses story, I've always felt that it is entirely possible this happened through some kind of natural disaster...think tsunami pictures. The fact that it happened at the precise moment it was needed is the miracle.
The same with the walls of Jericho. Archaelogists studied the site, and someone reputable (National Geographic?) produced a documentary on it. I'm dredging this up from memory, so it won't be well done.
It seems that Jericho was built on unstable ground. The constant marching of hundreds of men combined with the blowing of the horn (shofar?) was enough to bring the walls down. There is a scientific explanation behind the event, and yet the miracle is NOT the walls coming down. To me, the miracle lies in those men marching endlessly, not sure how it would happen but believing in a promise made to them.
If this is all true, that the miracle lies in faith, not in scientific reasons for events, then it's true that many of us would deny it. It places a burden on us.
Without commenting yet on that burden, is this what you're getting at? Or have I completely missed the mark?
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
Aristotle
Aristotle
They choose not to have faith
A Karenina wrote: Clint, I'm going to jump in here and say thank you, from the heart. I'm unable to PM you or email you, so this is my public offering.
There's a lot of truth in what you're saying. People often believe what they want to, ignoring parts that they don't like or don't want to accept.
Using the Moses story, I've always felt that it is entirely possible this happened through some kind of natural disaster...think tsunami pictures. The fact that it happened at the precise moment it was needed is the miracle.
The same with the walls of Jericho. Archaelogists studied the site, and someone reputable (National Geographic?) produced a documentary on it. I'm dredging this up from memory, so it won't be well done.
It seems that Jericho was built on unstable ground. The constant marching of hundreds of men combined with the blowing of the horn (shofar?) was enough to bring the walls down. There is a scientific explanation behind the event, and yet the miracle is NOT the walls coming down. To me, the miracle lies in those men marching endlessly, not sure how it would happen but believing in a promise made to them.
If this is all true, that the miracle lies in faith, not in scientific reasons for events, then it's true that many of us would deny it. It places a burden on us.
Without commenting yet on that burden, is this what you're getting at? Or have I completely missed the mark?
Sorry about the full mail box. I’ve emptied it. I wish I could spend more time here but other things are more pressing. Thank you for your kind words.
I think the miracles like the parting of the Red Sea could be the result of some natural phenomenon. I also believe that God could will it done and it would be done. Either way the events result in lessons and experiences that point to God and strengthen his people. If we accept them in faith, we also accept that we are not on an aimles journey alone.
The sad reality is that so many of us see believing as a burden. Many think that accepting the power and presence of God means they will cease to enjoy life. In our rebellion, we want to be the greatest entity in existence. We don’t want to accept that God’s ways are better than our ways. Many don’t realize that accepting God’s existence means that no matter what happens we are never alone and always loved.
There's a lot of truth in what you're saying. People often believe what they want to, ignoring parts that they don't like or don't want to accept.
Using the Moses story, I've always felt that it is entirely possible this happened through some kind of natural disaster...think tsunami pictures. The fact that it happened at the precise moment it was needed is the miracle.
The same with the walls of Jericho. Archaelogists studied the site, and someone reputable (National Geographic?) produced a documentary on it. I'm dredging this up from memory, so it won't be well done.
It seems that Jericho was built on unstable ground. The constant marching of hundreds of men combined with the blowing of the horn (shofar?) was enough to bring the walls down. There is a scientific explanation behind the event, and yet the miracle is NOT the walls coming down. To me, the miracle lies in those men marching endlessly, not sure how it would happen but believing in a promise made to them.
If this is all true, that the miracle lies in faith, not in scientific reasons for events, then it's true that many of us would deny it. It places a burden on us.
Without commenting yet on that burden, is this what you're getting at? Or have I completely missed the mark?
Sorry about the full mail box. I’ve emptied it. I wish I could spend more time here but other things are more pressing. Thank you for your kind words.
I think the miracles like the parting of the Red Sea could be the result of some natural phenomenon. I also believe that God could will it done and it would be done. Either way the events result in lessons and experiences that point to God and strengthen his people. If we accept them in faith, we also accept that we are not on an aimles journey alone.
The sad reality is that so many of us see believing as a burden. Many think that accepting the power and presence of God means they will cease to enjoy life. In our rebellion, we want to be the greatest entity in existence. We don’t want to accept that God’s ways are better than our ways. Many don’t realize that accepting God’s existence means that no matter what happens we are never alone and always loved.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
-
A Karenina
- Posts: 968
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 am
They choose not to have faith
Clint wrote: I think the miracles like the parting of the Red Sea could be the result of some natural phenomenon. I also believe that God could will it done and it would be done. Either way the events result in lessons and experiences that point to God and strengthen his people. If we accept them in faith, we also accept that we are not on an aimless journey alone.
That's what I'm trying to say in a round-about way. God created nature, or harnessed nature - however you see it. Logically, why wouldn't God use his own creations in order to force a specific action? Using natural events doesn't lessen the miracle in my mind. (But then...we know what a scary place my mind really is. LOL)
People can try to disprove the miraculous aspect of certain events by saying here's how it happened (like the walls of Jericho). But proving the "how" has no bearing on the "why" or the "when" or anything else.
Clint wrote: The sad reality is that so many of us see believing as a burden. Many think that accepting the power and presence of God means they will cease to enjoy life. In our rebellion, we want to be the greatest entity in existence. We don’t want to accept that God’s ways are better than our ways. Many don’t realize that accepting God’s existence means that no matter what happens we are never alone and always loved.
Speaking for myself, I have seen faith as a burden for a long time now. And I haven't wanted it. I'm not sure if it's rebellion in my case or not - it could be. I know that I struggle so hard with forgiveness. I'm hardly the only one, I know, but for the sake of this post, let's make it all about me.
I don't believe I am anything special, no greater or lesser than anyone else. But for whatever reasons, I've had so many awful experiences tied in with religion (as you know). The battle to forgive and keep the faith in spite of it all made me emotionally exhausted. And I quit. I refused the burden, because that's how I saw it - a burden to forgive, a struggle to be try and be good anyway, a ten-ton weight on my soul.
I am at the beginning phases of understanding this differently now. I have judged God by the actions of the people he has created. If they weren't living up to my expectations of what they should be doing, in my infinite wisdom - ha!, then clearly they were destroying God with every nasty thing they do.
It was easier for me to turn my back on the whole thing than to try and come to terms with all of that. Yet, over time and with avoidance, neglect, and denial of my own faith, I'm pretty much back to my own starting place. God does indeed work in mysterious ways.
I wonder if many of us refuse the "burden" for similar reasons. I see posts that aer angry at God/religion and I completely understand that. I ache when I read them. I feel like those people have such a strong belief that anything less than their vision is intolerable...that's the road I have taken.
That's what I'm trying to say in a round-about way. God created nature, or harnessed nature - however you see it. Logically, why wouldn't God use his own creations in order to force a specific action? Using natural events doesn't lessen the miracle in my mind. (But then...we know what a scary place my mind really is. LOL)
People can try to disprove the miraculous aspect of certain events by saying here's how it happened (like the walls of Jericho). But proving the "how" has no bearing on the "why" or the "when" or anything else.
Clint wrote: The sad reality is that so many of us see believing as a burden. Many think that accepting the power and presence of God means they will cease to enjoy life. In our rebellion, we want to be the greatest entity in existence. We don’t want to accept that God’s ways are better than our ways. Many don’t realize that accepting God’s existence means that no matter what happens we are never alone and always loved.
Speaking for myself, I have seen faith as a burden for a long time now. And I haven't wanted it. I'm not sure if it's rebellion in my case or not - it could be. I know that I struggle so hard with forgiveness. I'm hardly the only one, I know, but for the sake of this post, let's make it all about me.
I don't believe I am anything special, no greater or lesser than anyone else. But for whatever reasons, I've had so many awful experiences tied in with religion (as you know). The battle to forgive and keep the faith in spite of it all made me emotionally exhausted. And I quit. I refused the burden, because that's how I saw it - a burden to forgive, a struggle to be try and be good anyway, a ten-ton weight on my soul.
I am at the beginning phases of understanding this differently now. I have judged God by the actions of the people he has created. If they weren't living up to my expectations of what they should be doing, in my infinite wisdom - ha!, then clearly they were destroying God with every nasty thing they do.
It was easier for me to turn my back on the whole thing than to try and come to terms with all of that. Yet, over time and with avoidance, neglect, and denial of my own faith, I'm pretty much back to my own starting place. God does indeed work in mysterious ways.
I wonder if many of us refuse the "burden" for similar reasons. I see posts that aer angry at God/religion and I completely understand that. I ache when I read them. I feel like those people have such a strong belief that anything less than their vision is intolerable...that's the road I have taken.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
Aristotle
Aristotle
They choose not to have faith
We're talking about faith. Those without it have never been close to death or very ill for a long time, I'll tell you that. When you are faced with mortality, it gets a lot easier to believe.
Would you guys like to hear a story?
I was pretty amazingly in good health for my whole life until I was 40. Never went to the hospital once. (other than some self-inflicted lacerations and broken bones). Then one day, I got a virus from one of my students.
Apparently, it rewrote my whole DNA. Swedish men have a gene that makes them suspeptable to RA if the genetic switch is turned on. After that, my own immune system began to wage war on me, attacking my joints first, then my muscles, and finally my internal organs.
The docs in my town are barely above the middle ages in learning, so no one could help me.
At the end of a year, I could no longer walk and was almost completely paralyzed.
Then one night, I was lying in bed in incredible pain. When suddenly I felt terrible, I knew something was SERIOUSLY wrong. I tried to roll out of bed and succeeded in getting upright. I tried to speak but was unable to make anything other than a gurgling noise. I was holding myself up at my dresser then suddenly....
I was standing behind myself! I could see my own head from the back. I thought, "Man, I need a haircut." Then my body lost it's grip and keeled over hard. It hit the ground without catching itself at all.
I thought, "Oooo..that looked like it hurt!" Then I realized I was outside my body. I didn't move because I thought I might pop like a soap bubble. Then I realized that I felt great. All the pain was gone. It felt like someone had rolled a Volkswagon off of me.
I looked slowly to the right and was surprised to see...
Hundreds of softly glowing candle flames, hanging in the room. I say candle flames, but they weren't flickering and they were more like a white color and the size of a football. I felt a great sense of peace as I looked at them. "Hey!", I thought "Those are my people! They've come for me." (How I knew this, I have no idea.) Then I thought, "Wow, why do I have so many people?" because I could see them out on the lawn, in the street, and even in the street beyond. (I realize now that all families stretch back for generations into the distant mists of time.)
Then I realized, i was looking right through the wall!
The flames weren't doing anything, just hanging there, softly glowing, watching. I got a sense of expectancy from them. But suddenly....POW
I was back in my body on the floor. The pain was crushing. I thought, "Ow! That DID hurt!"
Later, the docs at the hospital told me that my heart had stopped. They decided that dying meant that there was actually something wrong with me. 300 blood tests later, it was RA. Now I take a couple of little white pills a day and I'm as strong, powerful, and vigorous as ever! i can ski again, swim again, run and play again!
I learned a couple of powerful things from this experience:
1. There is life after death and you do not cease to exist when you die!
2. God gave me a wake up call, "Life is beautiful, get out there and enjoy every single minute of it!"
3. Do good, live well, be kind, and stop and smell those roses every chance you get. Look closely at the grass, lie on your back and stare at the clouds, roll around on the lawn, cherish your friends, love the people in your life.
4. Have faith, there is a God and he has plan and a pattern to the Universe.
Would you guys like to hear a story?
I was pretty amazingly in good health for my whole life until I was 40. Never went to the hospital once. (other than some self-inflicted lacerations and broken bones). Then one day, I got a virus from one of my students.
Apparently, it rewrote my whole DNA. Swedish men have a gene that makes them suspeptable to RA if the genetic switch is turned on. After that, my own immune system began to wage war on me, attacking my joints first, then my muscles, and finally my internal organs.
The docs in my town are barely above the middle ages in learning, so no one could help me.
At the end of a year, I could no longer walk and was almost completely paralyzed.
Then one night, I was lying in bed in incredible pain. When suddenly I felt terrible, I knew something was SERIOUSLY wrong. I tried to roll out of bed and succeeded in getting upright. I tried to speak but was unable to make anything other than a gurgling noise. I was holding myself up at my dresser then suddenly....
I was standing behind myself! I could see my own head from the back. I thought, "Man, I need a haircut." Then my body lost it's grip and keeled over hard. It hit the ground without catching itself at all.
I thought, "Oooo..that looked like it hurt!" Then I realized I was outside my body. I didn't move because I thought I might pop like a soap bubble. Then I realized that I felt great. All the pain was gone. It felt like someone had rolled a Volkswagon off of me.
I looked slowly to the right and was surprised to see...
Hundreds of softly glowing candle flames, hanging in the room. I say candle flames, but they weren't flickering and they were more like a white color and the size of a football. I felt a great sense of peace as I looked at them. "Hey!", I thought "Those are my people! They've come for me." (How I knew this, I have no idea.) Then I thought, "Wow, why do I have so many people?" because I could see them out on the lawn, in the street, and even in the street beyond. (I realize now that all families stretch back for generations into the distant mists of time.)
Then I realized, i was looking right through the wall!
The flames weren't doing anything, just hanging there, softly glowing, watching. I got a sense of expectancy from them. But suddenly....POW
I was back in my body on the floor. The pain was crushing. I thought, "Ow! That DID hurt!"
Later, the docs at the hospital told me that my heart had stopped. They decided that dying meant that there was actually something wrong with me. 300 blood tests later, it was RA. Now I take a couple of little white pills a day and I'm as strong, powerful, and vigorous as ever! i can ski again, swim again, run and play again!
I learned a couple of powerful things from this experience:
1. There is life after death and you do not cease to exist when you die!
2. God gave me a wake up call, "Life is beautiful, get out there and enjoy every single minute of it!"
3. Do good, live well, be kind, and stop and smell those roses every chance you get. Look closely at the grass, lie on your back and stare at the clouds, roll around on the lawn, cherish your friends, love the people in your life.
4. Have faith, there is a God and he has plan and a pattern to the Universe.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
They choose not to have faith
A Karenina wrote:
I wonder if many of us refuse the "burden" for similar reasons. I see posts that aer angry at God/religion and I completely understand that. I ache when I read them. I feel like those people have such a strong belief that anything less than their vision is intolerable...that's the road I have taken.
I’m sure you are right.
If we don’t forgive, we cannot heal.
If we don’t forgive, we reserve the right to sweet revenge.
If we don’t forgive, we don’t have the right to be forgiven.
If we don’t forgive, we keep the power to decide another’s fate.
If don’t forgive we control our own fate (not good).
Deciding to forgive is a difficult decision.
You sound like someone who is looking forward to freedom, hope and joy in spite of the trouble you have had or might have.
I’m glad I came to the garden today.
I wonder if many of us refuse the "burden" for similar reasons. I see posts that aer angry at God/religion and I completely understand that. I ache when I read them. I feel like those people have such a strong belief that anything less than their vision is intolerable...that's the road I have taken.
I’m sure you are right.
If we don’t forgive, we cannot heal.
If we don’t forgive, we reserve the right to sweet revenge.
If we don’t forgive, we don’t have the right to be forgiven.
If we don’t forgive, we keep the power to decide another’s fate.
If don’t forgive we control our own fate (not good).
Deciding to forgive is a difficult decision.
You sound like someone who is looking forward to freedom, hope and joy in spite of the trouble you have had or might have.
I’m glad I came to the garden today.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
They choose not to have faith
Jives,
Stories such as this are the reason I love the ForumGarden so much. It sounds like you could fill the boards with inspiring tales. Thank you.
Stories such as this are the reason I love the ForumGarden so much. It sounds like you could fill the boards with inspiring tales. Thank you.
-
capt_buzzard
- Posts: 5557
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm
They choose not to have faith
I believe in Faith of my loved ones and the many friends round me. :-6
They choose not to have faith
Jives wrote:
I learned a couple of powerful things from this experience:
1. There is life after death and you do not cease to exist when you die!
2. God gave me a wake up call, "Life is beautiful, get out there and enjoy every single minute of it!"
3. Do good, live well, be kind, and stop and smell those roses every chance you get. Look closely at the grass, lie on your back and stare at the clouds, roll around on the lawn, cherish your friends, love the people in your life.
4. Have faith, there is a God and he has plan and a pattern to the Universe.
Thank you for your story and lessons. God wants us to walk in his ways because his ways are the ways of joy, hope and peace.
I learned a couple of powerful things from this experience:
1. There is life after death and you do not cease to exist when you die!
2. God gave me a wake up call, "Life is beautiful, get out there and enjoy every single minute of it!"
3. Do good, live well, be kind, and stop and smell those roses every chance you get. Look closely at the grass, lie on your back and stare at the clouds, roll around on the lawn, cherish your friends, love the people in your life.
4. Have faith, there is a God and he has plan and a pattern to the Universe.
Thank you for your story and lessons. God wants us to walk in his ways because his ways are the ways of joy, hope and peace.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
-
capt_buzzard
- Posts: 5557
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm
They choose not to have faith
Clint wrote: Thank you for your story and lessons. God wants us to walk in his ways because his ways are the ways of joy, hope and peace. Where is the Peace today?
They choose not to have faith
capt_buzzard wrote: Where is the Peace today?
I believe peace resides in the perspective of each individual. It has nothing to do with whether or not we are at war as a nation or even world wide. Peace comes from knowing that when it looks like everything is coming down around us, we will still be standing no matter what physical condition we are left in. Peace comes from knowing what our relationship with our creator is and that his love for us covers what we have done and what others have done to us. Peace comes from knowing that it isn’t up to us to forge the way, we only need to follow. Peace comes from discipline in the ways of the One who designed and created us.
I believe peace resides in the perspective of each individual. It has nothing to do with whether or not we are at war as a nation or even world wide. Peace comes from knowing that when it looks like everything is coming down around us, we will still be standing no matter what physical condition we are left in. Peace comes from knowing what our relationship with our creator is and that his love for us covers what we have done and what others have done to us. Peace comes from knowing that it isn’t up to us to forge the way, we only need to follow. Peace comes from discipline in the ways of the One who designed and created us.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
-
capt_buzzard
- Posts: 5557
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm
They choose not to have faith
Clint wrote: I believe peace resides in the perspective of each individual. It has nothing to do with whether or not we are at war as a nation or even world wide. Peace comes from knowing that when it looks like everything is coming down around us, we will still be standing no matter what physical condition we are left in. Peace comes from knowing what our relationship with our creator is and that his love for us covers what we have done and what others have done to us. Peace comes from knowing that it isn’t up to us to forge the way, we only need to follow. Peace comes from discipline in the ways of the One who designed and created us. Got it
They choose not to have faith
When I first moved to BC I was in awe of the mountains (still am). I used to say every day for the first three months I lived her, not exaggerating, "Just look at those mountains...You don't see that every day" To which my friends inevitably responded "Yes, you do." When I moved to North Vancouver at the base of the mountains I was struck by a realization. I was thankful to the mountains because I didn't have to be them. I don't know if anyone will understand this except that I feel the need to be like a mountain...or did, until I realized they already exist and I don't have to be that strong, that grand, that ancient.
For some reason I felt this belonged in this thread.
For some reason I felt this belonged in this thread.
-
capt_buzzard
- Posts: 5557
- Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:00 pm
They choose not to have faith
koan wrote: When I first moved to BC I was in awe of the mountains (still am). I used to say every day for the first three months I lived her, not exaggerating, "Just look at those mountains...You don't see that every day" To which my friends inevitably responded "Yes, you do." When I moved to North Vancouver at the base of the mountains I was struck by a realization. I was thankful to the mountains because I didn't have to be them. I don't know if anyone will understand this except that I feel the need to be like a mountain...or did, until I realized they already exist and I don't have to be that strong, that grand, that ancient.
For some reason I felt this belonged in this thread. Well Koan, when you put it like that...
For some reason I felt this belonged in this thread. Well Koan, when you put it like that...
-
A Karenina
- Posts: 968
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 am
They choose not to have faith
koan wrote: For some reason I felt this belonged in this thread.
It did. I cried, very releasing. Now I'm off to call my mother, who deserves to hear some of my thoughts after years of praying for me.
:-6
It did. I cried, very releasing. Now I'm off to call my mother, who deserves to hear some of my thoughts after years of praying for me.
:-6
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
Aristotle
Aristotle
They choose not to have faith
A Karenina wrote: It did. I cried, very releasing. Now I'm off to call my mother, who deserves to hear some of my thoughts after years of praying for me.
:-6
You are very beautiful, AK
:-6
You are very beautiful, AK
-
A Karenina
- Posts: 968
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 am
They choose not to have faith
koan wrote: You are very beautiful, AK
Oh, sweet one, no, I'm not. I've caused too much pain to be called that.
I can definitely say that you are beautiful, and that is why you see beauty in others.
Oh, sweet one, no, I'm not. I've caused too much pain to be called that.
I can definitely say that you are beautiful, and that is why you see beauty in others.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
Aristotle
Aristotle
-
A Karenina
- Posts: 968
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 am
They choose not to have faith
Clint wrote:
If we don’t forgive, we cannot heal.
If we don’t forgive, we reserve the right to sweet revenge.
If we don’t forgive, we don’t have the right to be forgiven.
If we don’t forgive, we keep the power to decide another’s fate.
If don’t forgive we control our own fate (not good).
Deciding to forgive is a difficult decision.
You sound like someone who is looking forward to freedom, hope and joy in spite of the trouble you have had or might have.
I’m glad I came to the garden today.
I'm glad you came as well.
Deciding to forgive...that really struck me, and I wanted to think on it before I replied. For me, forgiveness is the only option, almost as if there is no other choice. If I don't work through it and release it, then it makes my heart/life small, brittle, dark.
I had a really awful stepmother from ages 6 to 9. My father finally left her, and moved on. When I was about 12 or 13, he took me on a business trip with him. We went to a huge park for a picnic lunch. I was horrified, stunned, and filled with rage when I saw this truly wicked stepmom there at the park. I had no idea my father had been in contact with her.
She saw my expression. She knew what lay between us. And she grinned, an awful malevolent grin. I didn't think. I only felt. I stooped down, picked up a rock, visions of her dead on the ground filled my head. She knew what I was thinking, and continued her awful grinning.
I've been through this in therapy several times, so forgive me if it sounds practiced. I always want to concentrate on the emotions running through me, but the therapist always asks if I threw the rock.
Yes. I did. But I turned at the last moment. The entire thing was so sudden that I managed to kill a bird with my stone. I stood there shaking, trying to understand what had happened.
My father was startled. I ignored him. The stepmother was furious, beyond furious...she would've killed me if my dad hadn't been there. Hate, rage, every ugly emotion I can name was on her face.
And I stood there, absorbing, making decisions from another part of myself that I had never known about before. Not sure if this makes any sense at all...and I ended up nodding at her. Although I didn't understand what had happened, I knew that I had won my soul, that I was triumphant, victorious, all those grand words.
I spent a long time thinking over what happened. I had the option to forgive or not. I could've chosen vengeance, and no one would've denied it to me had they known the truth. Instead I took a different path, without thinking, only feeling.
She doesn't haunt my life, though I sometimes think I haunt hers. Forgiveness is the better way, and yet it takes so much from a person. I wish I could say it's easy for me, like breathing, but it's not. While there's no other option for me, it's still a demanding task.
And so, I finally get to my point. When it's this tough, when it takes so much from you, it becomes easier to avoid that situation. When you know you'll be asked to forgive over and over, it is easier to withdraw from the temptation. To refuse the burden.
I'd also like to add that I am not defending my actions or thoughts. I merely offer them in hopes that greater understanding of people like myself will lead to greater compassion of people like myself.
If we don’t forgive, we cannot heal.
If we don’t forgive, we reserve the right to sweet revenge.
If we don’t forgive, we don’t have the right to be forgiven.
If we don’t forgive, we keep the power to decide another’s fate.
If don’t forgive we control our own fate (not good).
Deciding to forgive is a difficult decision.
You sound like someone who is looking forward to freedom, hope and joy in spite of the trouble you have had or might have.
I’m glad I came to the garden today.
I'm glad you came as well.
Deciding to forgive...that really struck me, and I wanted to think on it before I replied. For me, forgiveness is the only option, almost as if there is no other choice. If I don't work through it and release it, then it makes my heart/life small, brittle, dark.
I had a really awful stepmother from ages 6 to 9. My father finally left her, and moved on. When I was about 12 or 13, he took me on a business trip with him. We went to a huge park for a picnic lunch. I was horrified, stunned, and filled with rage when I saw this truly wicked stepmom there at the park. I had no idea my father had been in contact with her.
She saw my expression. She knew what lay between us. And she grinned, an awful malevolent grin. I didn't think. I only felt. I stooped down, picked up a rock, visions of her dead on the ground filled my head. She knew what I was thinking, and continued her awful grinning.
I've been through this in therapy several times, so forgive me if it sounds practiced. I always want to concentrate on the emotions running through me, but the therapist always asks if I threw the rock.
Yes. I did. But I turned at the last moment. The entire thing was so sudden that I managed to kill a bird with my stone. I stood there shaking, trying to understand what had happened.
My father was startled. I ignored him. The stepmother was furious, beyond furious...she would've killed me if my dad hadn't been there. Hate, rage, every ugly emotion I can name was on her face.
And I stood there, absorbing, making decisions from another part of myself that I had never known about before. Not sure if this makes any sense at all...and I ended up nodding at her. Although I didn't understand what had happened, I knew that I had won my soul, that I was triumphant, victorious, all those grand words.
I spent a long time thinking over what happened. I had the option to forgive or not. I could've chosen vengeance, and no one would've denied it to me had they known the truth. Instead I took a different path, without thinking, only feeling.
She doesn't haunt my life, though I sometimes think I haunt hers. Forgiveness is the better way, and yet it takes so much from a person. I wish I could say it's easy for me, like breathing, but it's not. While there's no other option for me, it's still a demanding task.
And so, I finally get to my point. When it's this tough, when it takes so much from you, it becomes easier to avoid that situation. When you know you'll be asked to forgive over and over, it is easier to withdraw from the temptation. To refuse the burden.
I'd also like to add that I am not defending my actions or thoughts. I merely offer them in hopes that greater understanding of people like myself will lead to greater compassion of people like myself.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
Aristotle
Aristotle
They choose not to have faith
A Karenina wrote: I'm glad you came as well.
Deciding to forgive...that really struck me, and I wanted to think on it before I replied. For me, forgiveness is the only option, almost as if there is no other choice. If I don't work through it and release it, then it makes my heart/life small, brittle, dark.
I had a really awful stepmother from ages 6 to 9. My father finally left her, and moved on. When I was about 12 or 13, he took me on a business trip with him. We went to a huge park for a picnic lunch. I was horrified, stunned, and filled with rage when I saw this truly wicked stepmom there at the park. I had no idea my father had been in contact with her.
She saw my expression. She knew what lay between us. And she grinned, an awful malevolent grin. I didn't think. I only felt. I stooped down, picked up a rock, visions of her dead on the ground filled my head. She knew what I was thinking, and continued her awful grinning.
I've been through this in therapy several times, so forgive me if it sounds practiced. I always want to concentrate on the emotions running through me, but the therapist always asks if I threw the rock.
Yes. I did. But I turned at the last moment. The entire thing was so sudden that I managed to kill a bird with my stone. I stood there shaking, trying to understand what had happened.
My father was startled. I ignored him. The stepmother was furious, beyond furious...she would've killed me if my dad hadn't been there. Hate, rage, every ugly emotion I can name was on her face.
And I stood there, absorbing, making decisions from another part of myself that I had never known about before. Not sure if this makes any sense at all...and I ended up nodding at her. Although I didn't understand what had happened, I knew that I had won my soul, that I was triumphant, victorious, all those grand words.
I spent a long time thinking over what happened. I had the option to forgive or not. I could've chosen vengeance, and no one would've denied it to me had they known the truth. Instead I took a different path, without thinking, only feeling.
She doesn't haunt my life, though I sometimes think I haunt hers. Forgiveness is the better way, and yet it takes so much from a person. I wish I could say it's easy for me, like breathing, but it's not. While there's no other option for me, it's still a demanding task.
And so, I finally get to my point. When it's this tough, when it takes so much from you, it becomes easier to avoid that situation. When you know you'll be asked to forgive over and over, it is easier to withdraw from the temptation. To refuse the burden.
I'd also like to add that I am not defending my actions or thoughts. I merely offer them in hopes that greater understanding of people like myself will lead to greater compassion of people like myself.
Some put their forgiveness into action. Other act like they are forgiving. You understand what you are doing and moving forward with courage. All I have to toast with is a cup of coffee so I’ll lift it and say, “here’s to a person with courage and a good heart that is strong enough to do what is rightâ€. God’s blessings will follow and forgiving becomes easier and easier. I know.
Thank you for telling us.
Deciding to forgive...that really struck me, and I wanted to think on it before I replied. For me, forgiveness is the only option, almost as if there is no other choice. If I don't work through it and release it, then it makes my heart/life small, brittle, dark.
I had a really awful stepmother from ages 6 to 9. My father finally left her, and moved on. When I was about 12 or 13, he took me on a business trip with him. We went to a huge park for a picnic lunch. I was horrified, stunned, and filled with rage when I saw this truly wicked stepmom there at the park. I had no idea my father had been in contact with her.
She saw my expression. She knew what lay between us. And she grinned, an awful malevolent grin. I didn't think. I only felt. I stooped down, picked up a rock, visions of her dead on the ground filled my head. She knew what I was thinking, and continued her awful grinning.
I've been through this in therapy several times, so forgive me if it sounds practiced. I always want to concentrate on the emotions running through me, but the therapist always asks if I threw the rock.
Yes. I did. But I turned at the last moment. The entire thing was so sudden that I managed to kill a bird with my stone. I stood there shaking, trying to understand what had happened.
My father was startled. I ignored him. The stepmother was furious, beyond furious...she would've killed me if my dad hadn't been there. Hate, rage, every ugly emotion I can name was on her face.
And I stood there, absorbing, making decisions from another part of myself that I had never known about before. Not sure if this makes any sense at all...and I ended up nodding at her. Although I didn't understand what had happened, I knew that I had won my soul, that I was triumphant, victorious, all those grand words.
I spent a long time thinking over what happened. I had the option to forgive or not. I could've chosen vengeance, and no one would've denied it to me had they known the truth. Instead I took a different path, without thinking, only feeling.
She doesn't haunt my life, though I sometimes think I haunt hers. Forgiveness is the better way, and yet it takes so much from a person. I wish I could say it's easy for me, like breathing, but it's not. While there's no other option for me, it's still a demanding task.
And so, I finally get to my point. When it's this tough, when it takes so much from you, it becomes easier to avoid that situation. When you know you'll be asked to forgive over and over, it is easier to withdraw from the temptation. To refuse the burden.
I'd also like to add that I am not defending my actions or thoughts. I merely offer them in hopes that greater understanding of people like myself will lead to greater compassion of people like myself.
Some put their forgiveness into action. Other act like they are forgiving. You understand what you are doing and moving forward with courage. All I have to toast with is a cup of coffee so I’ll lift it and say, “here’s to a person with courage and a good heart that is strong enough to do what is rightâ€. God’s blessings will follow and forgiving becomes easier and easier. I know.
Thank you for telling us.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
They choose not to have faith
I'm sorry, AK,
I'm not as sweet as you thought. I wish you had hit her. I don't know what she did to you but I can't help the feeling that she would have deserved every ounce of the impact and more. Its horrendous what some people are capable of. The thought of how she must have hurt you makes me want to throw the rock myself.
I suppose I fail the test.
I'm not as sweet as you thought. I wish you had hit her. I don't know what she did to you but I can't help the feeling that she would have deserved every ounce of the impact and more. Its horrendous what some people are capable of. The thought of how she must have hurt you makes me want to throw the rock myself.
I suppose I fail the test.
They choose not to have faith
koan wrote: I'm sorry, AK,
I'm not as sweet as you thought. I wish you had hit her. I don't know what she did to you but I can't help the feeling that she would have deserved every ounce of the impact and more. Its horrendous what some people are capable of. The thought of how she must have hurt you makes me want to throw the rock myself.
I suppose I fail the test.
I would have at least wanted to throw the rock. There was a time when I probably would have.
I think the time to throw the rock was then. This is now and we have to consider all that has happened in our life and the life of those who wronged us since then. We have to stand back and look at the whole picture to know if forgiveness will result in freedom and the ability to move forward. Forgiving doesn’t mean we have to put ourselves back in harms way. If we feel the need to forgive then I think we should respond to that in a positive way. We don’t have to condone a wrong done to forgive those who did it.
I recently had to forgive my parents for something they did to me that was very wrong. I chose not to carry it with me. They are both very old now and I don’t want to stand next to a casket knowing that I never forgave. I did it for me just as much as I did it for them. I have to assume that what they did, they did out of ignorance because of the way they learned to handle things.
I think these issues are so complex and personal that we only know if we passed or failed by how we respond to the inner voice that tells us if we are doing right or wrong.
Sorry if I interrupted.
I'm not as sweet as you thought. I wish you had hit her. I don't know what she did to you but I can't help the feeling that she would have deserved every ounce of the impact and more. Its horrendous what some people are capable of. The thought of how she must have hurt you makes me want to throw the rock myself.
I suppose I fail the test.
I would have at least wanted to throw the rock. There was a time when I probably would have.
I think the time to throw the rock was then. This is now and we have to consider all that has happened in our life and the life of those who wronged us since then. We have to stand back and look at the whole picture to know if forgiveness will result in freedom and the ability to move forward. Forgiving doesn’t mean we have to put ourselves back in harms way. If we feel the need to forgive then I think we should respond to that in a positive way. We don’t have to condone a wrong done to forgive those who did it.
I recently had to forgive my parents for something they did to me that was very wrong. I chose not to carry it with me. They are both very old now and I don’t want to stand next to a casket knowing that I never forgave. I did it for me just as much as I did it for them. I have to assume that what they did, they did out of ignorance because of the way they learned to handle things.
I think these issues are so complex and personal that we only know if we passed or failed by how we respond to the inner voice that tells us if we are doing right or wrong.
Sorry if I interrupted.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
-
A Karenina
- Posts: 968
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 am
They choose not to have faith
You didn't interrupt. You added a lot of wisdom and value. The stories being told on this thread are so moving. I hope more people join in.
Koan...you are still sweet. You're a warrior, too. I have no doubt that you would throw the rock to protect another. Being who you are, as strong as you are, would you have felt the need to throw the rock on your own behalf?
Koan...you are still sweet.
You're a warrior, too. I have no doubt that you would throw the rock to protect another. Being who you are, as strong as you are, would you have felt the need to throw the rock on your own behalf?We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
Aristotle
Aristotle
They choose not to have faith
A Karenina wrote: You didn't interrupt. You added a lot of wisdom and value. The stories being told on this thread are so moving. I hope more people join in.
Koan...you are still sweet. You're a warrior, too. I have no doubt that you would throw the rock to protect another. Being who you are, as strong as you are, would you have felt the need to throw the rock on your own behalf?
Absolutely not...and you knew that already.
Koan...you are still sweet.
You're a warrior, too. I have no doubt that you would throw the rock to protect another. Being who you are, as strong as you are, would you have felt the need to throw the rock on your own behalf?Absolutely not...and you knew that already.
-
A Karenina
- Posts: 968
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 am
They choose not to have faith
koan wrote: Absolutely not...and you knew that already.
Yes, I did. And I feel something very akin to sisterly love for you.
:-6
Yes, I did. And I feel something very akin to sisterly love for you.
:-6
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
Aristotle
Aristotle
They choose not to have faith
koan wrote: Jives,
Stories such as this are the reason I love the ForumGarden so much. It sounds like you could fill the boards with inspiring tales. Thank you.
Thanks, Koan. Have a great day today, and I really mean that!
Stories such as this are the reason I love the ForumGarden so much. It sounds like you could fill the boards with inspiring tales. Thank you.
Thanks, Koan. Have a great day today, and I really mean that!
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
They choose not to have faith
Clint wrote:
These days, if the Red Sea crossing had been captured on VHS, the same doubters would say it was trick photography or elaborate special effects. They doubt because they want to. Not doubting means there is an all powerful God they need to submit to.
Back to my original point. They doubt because they want to. Not because the evidence is weak.
These days, if the Red Sea crossing had been captured on VHS, the same doubters would say it was trick photography or elaborate special effects. They doubt because they want to. Not doubting means there is an all powerful God they need to submit to.
Back to my original point. They doubt because they want to. Not because the evidence is weak.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.