Blaming the Victim?
Blaming the Victim?
there has been a lot of controversy and conversation among the cable news pundits about this....the young lady who was so horribly murdered in NY was out, alone at a bar, drunk, at 4:30 AM (which is her right). did she put herself in harm's way? was her behavior foolish? or is it blaming the victim to express the opinion that she should have been more savvy and cautious? (especially since she was about to get a masters at john jay college of criminology). what do you think? the topic is causing some vehement disagreements.
Blaming the Victim?
Far Rider wrote: Wow....
Tough call. No she is not to blame for her attack However, it didnt show much wisdom for self protection.
It was foolishness knowing the dangers involved.
I agree with Far. It'a just a pity that the dangers exist....that's down to the dark side of the human race i guess.
Tough call. No she is not to blame for her attack However, it didnt show much wisdom for self protection.
It was foolishness knowing the dangers involved.
I agree with Far. It'a just a pity that the dangers exist....that's down to the dark side of the human race i guess.
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
Blaming the Victim?
Wouldn't it be wonderful to live in a perfect world where everyone loved each other and took care of each other.
Being out, drunk, at any time of the day, is fine. But you can't defend yourself well when you're drunk. I'm just as guilty of this and I don't consider it a crime as long as a drunk person doesn't get lairy.
But this isn't a perfect world as any school kid could tell you and we have to be aware of the dangers. The law cannot protect you. The law is only a statute that tells us what we can and cannot do without risking penalty. The police cannot be everywhere at once and it is wrong to assume that they will be there to back you up when most needed.
The insidious persons who commit these atrocious acts that make our towns and cities unsafe are not going to wait for the police to call before they act. As much as they are in the wrong, they are there always waiting to take advantage of the weak. This poor young woman isn't guilty of inciting her own murder, these people should not be there committing these crimes. But they are there and will always be there and we cannot allow ourselves to forget that.
But if she is guilty, then so are all the people who passed her that night without offering her company. And is this something that's encouraged these days. Hardly, we are brought up never to talk to strangers.
Being out, drunk, at any time of the day, is fine. But you can't defend yourself well when you're drunk. I'm just as guilty of this and I don't consider it a crime as long as a drunk person doesn't get lairy.
But this isn't a perfect world as any school kid could tell you and we have to be aware of the dangers. The law cannot protect you. The law is only a statute that tells us what we can and cannot do without risking penalty. The police cannot be everywhere at once and it is wrong to assume that they will be there to back you up when most needed.
The insidious persons who commit these atrocious acts that make our towns and cities unsafe are not going to wait for the police to call before they act. As much as they are in the wrong, they are there always waiting to take advantage of the weak. This poor young woman isn't guilty of inciting her own murder, these people should not be there committing these crimes. But they are there and will always be there and we cannot allow ourselves to forget that.
But if she is guilty, then so are all the people who passed her that night without offering her company. And is this something that's encouraged these days. Hardly, we are brought up never to talk to strangers.
Blaming the Victim?
The world can be a sick place. Poor little 11 year old raped in a Sainsburys toilet at 7.30 at night....quite shocking.... her poor mother is guilt ridden,
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
Blaming the Victim?
If the victims behavior makes her responsible for what happened to her... then the phrase " There but for the grace of God go I......." slams us between the eyes,hard. If making an unsafe judgement call results in what happened to her, then we are all finally living in a decidedly horrible world.
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Blaming the Victim?
Blaming the victim is right up there with an abused woman deserves to be abused, a bullied person deserves to be bullied, etc. It's absolutely insane. If I choose to walk down the street, at 4am in nothing but my bra and underwear, it gives noone the right to rape me. I may show very poor taste, but it is not asking to be raped. Too often, the focus is put on the victim, and not on the criminal where it belongs.:-1
Blaming the Victim?
weeder wrote: If the victims behavior makes her responsible for what happened to her... then the phrase " There but for the grace of God go I......." slams us between the eyes,hard. If making an unsafe judgement call results in what happened to her, then we are all finally living in a decidedly horrible world.
It's sad but true, sorry to say we do live in a horrible world. Made horrible by a "minority" of misfits, not worthy to be called "people". However, that minority unfortunately affects us all. This killing brings home the horror some misfits can create on the unsuspecting innocent people! It's just the way of the world in which we live, where you can never be too carefull. Doesn't every mother & Father tell their children "not" to talk to strangers, & run away from a stranger trying to take them in their car. Well, it's pretty much the same nasty world even when you're older. Same sick misfits out there! The world didn't get any safer cause you got older, you just usually use more good common sense "not" to put yourself in a dangerous position/scenario. Especially late at night, & alone, & drunk. Don't women usually go to the "ladies- rooms" in twos, or threes for safety reasons? Don't get me wrong, what happened to this poor woman was a tragedy, but as it was already mentioned in another post, the Police can't be everywhere, everytime, protecting everyone. Knowing that, a person (male or female) must take personal precautions for their "own" safety. Because the Police can't always be there for protection. Sad state of affairs, but that's the way of the horrible world these "misfits" have made it in to! :wah:
It's sad but true, sorry to say we do live in a horrible world. Made horrible by a "minority" of misfits, not worthy to be called "people". However, that minority unfortunately affects us all. This killing brings home the horror some misfits can create on the unsuspecting innocent people! It's just the way of the world in which we live, where you can never be too carefull. Doesn't every mother & Father tell their children "not" to talk to strangers, & run away from a stranger trying to take them in their car. Well, it's pretty much the same nasty world even when you're older. Same sick misfits out there! The world didn't get any safer cause you got older, you just usually use more good common sense "not" to put yourself in a dangerous position/scenario. Especially late at night, & alone, & drunk. Don't women usually go to the "ladies- rooms" in twos, or threes for safety reasons? Don't get me wrong, what happened to this poor woman was a tragedy, but as it was already mentioned in another post, the Police can't be everywhere, everytime, protecting everyone. Knowing that, a person (male or female) must take personal precautions for their "own" safety. Because the Police can't always be there for protection. Sad state of affairs, but that's the way of the horrible world these "misfits" have made it in to! :wah:
Cars 
Blaming the Victim?
all good posts with excellent points..... i NEVER blame victims, i've met too many of them. but there is a responsibility one must take for their activities, risks to be weighed. ABSOLUTELY this poor girl did not deserve her fate! by no stretch. but as an example to illustrate my feelings about being realistic about your environment and circumstances...i do not SCUBA and spearfish (bloody) in shark-infested waters. i wish she had gone home with her friend an hour earlier. being drunk does impair good judgement. this killer was opportunistic. and tragically she provided the opportunity. my heart goes out to her family, and i am so very sad at the loss of a woman with a great future ahead of her. i don't blame her for what happened, but i wish to hell she had been sober and wiser.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Blaming the Victim?
If you walk in tall grass where you know there are snakes, and a snake bites you, it's your fault.
If you're walking down a salmon stream where you know there are bears, and a bear mauls you, it's your fault.
If you're walking down a dark alley where you know there are killers and rapists, and you get raped and/or killed, it's the fault of the criminal. As much as we say they're animals, they are intelligent humans who can reason and know lawful from unlawful, if not right from wrong. No matter how silly the victim is, it is never the victim's fault.
If you're walking down a salmon stream where you know there are bears, and a bear mauls you, it's your fault.
If you're walking down a dark alley where you know there are killers and rapists, and you get raped and/or killed, it's the fault of the criminal. As much as we say they're animals, they are intelligent humans who can reason and know lawful from unlawful, if not right from wrong. No matter how silly the victim is, it is never the victim's fault.
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pantsonfire321@aol.com
- Posts: 2920
- Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:26 am
Blaming the Victim?
But every person should take steps to protect themselves why tempt fate . This world is a very sick place and even idiots generally know the laws of the jungle .A drunk person is a vulnerable person male /female if your drunk your reactions are impaired .This woman didnt deserve to be killed but she didnt keep herself safe if she were sober she may of had a chance.At the end of the day her actions may just give the creep who killed her a defence ..not right but sometimes the law is an ass its like saying if you dress like a tart you deserve to be raped ...again not true but we have a duty to ourselves to stay safe ,her actions may just keep that creep out of prison to do it again .
Can go from 0 - to bitch in 3.0 seconds .
Smile people :yh_bigsmi
yep, this bitch bites back .
Smile people :yh_bigsmi
yep, this bitch bites back .
Blaming the Victim?
Accountable wrote: If you walk in tall grass where you know there are snakes, and a snake bites you, it's your fault.
If you're walking down a salmon stream where you know there are bears, and a bear mauls you, it's your fault.
If you're walking down a dark alley where you know there are killers and rapists, and you get raped and/or killed, it's the fault of the criminal. As much as we say they're animals, they are intelligent humans who can reason and know lawful from unlawful, if not right from wrong. No matter how silly the victim is, it is never the victim's fault.
I wanted to reply to this thread but couldn't quite formulate what I wanted to say. So thanks, Acc, you just did.
If you're walking down a salmon stream where you know there are bears, and a bear mauls you, it's your fault.
If you're walking down a dark alley where you know there are killers and rapists, and you get raped and/or killed, it's the fault of the criminal. As much as we say they're animals, they are intelligent humans who can reason and know lawful from unlawful, if not right from wrong. No matter how silly the victim is, it is never the victim's fault.
I wanted to reply to this thread but couldn't quite formulate what I wanted to say. So thanks, Acc, you just did.
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
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DesignerGal
- Posts: 2554
- Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:20 am
Blaming the Victim?
Nancy Grace would love this thread, LC. Its absolutley disgusting even thinking that its somehow this woman's fault she was murdered.
But talking about common sense is a good point. Common sense tells a person NOT to murder someone as well as telling someone not to walk down a dark alley at night by yourself intoxicated.
I have a strange mild paranoia about such things. I was getting out of my car and was approached from behind by a "strange" man in my driveway late one night. He said he ran out of gas and asked to use my phone. I tossed, not handed but tossed, the cell phone at him and said I'll be back to get that, go ahead and use it.
I ran inside, let out the dogs and got my dad on the landline while waiting for the him to knock on the door to give me my phone back. He did and told me I didnt have to worry about him. Well if he was a nice man, he would understand why I acted so rudely. I developed PTSD from this episode and tremble when I get out of the car at night. If he were to push me in my car and take off with me and murder me, would I be at fault because I wasnt more careful about leaving lights on outside?
Its the CRIMINAL'S FAULT. No if, ands, or buts, in my opinion.
But talking about common sense is a good point. Common sense tells a person NOT to murder someone as well as telling someone not to walk down a dark alley at night by yourself intoxicated.
I have a strange mild paranoia about such things. I was getting out of my car and was approached from behind by a "strange" man in my driveway late one night. He said he ran out of gas and asked to use my phone. I tossed, not handed but tossed, the cell phone at him and said I'll be back to get that, go ahead and use it.
I ran inside, let out the dogs and got my dad on the landline while waiting for the him to knock on the door to give me my phone back. He did and told me I didnt have to worry about him. Well if he was a nice man, he would understand why I acted so rudely. I developed PTSD from this episode and tremble when I get out of the car at night. If he were to push me in my car and take off with me and murder me, would I be at fault because I wasnt more careful about leaving lights on outside?
Its the CRIMINAL'S FAULT. No if, ands, or buts, in my opinion.
HBIC
Blaming the Victim?
[QUOTE=DesignerGal]Nancy Grace would love this thread, LC. Its absolutley disgusting even thinking that its somehow this woman's fault she was murdered.
But talking about common sense is a good point. Common sense tells a person NOT to murder someone as well as telling someone not to walk down a dark alley at night by yourself intoxicated.
I have a strange mild paranoia about such things. I was getting out of my car and was approached from behind by a "strange" man in my driveway late one night. He said he ran out of gas and asked to use my phone. I tossed, not handed but tossed, the cell phone at him and said I'll be back to get that, go ahead and use it.
I ran inside, let out the dogs and got my dad on the landline while waiting for the him to knock on the door to give me my phone back. He did and told me I didnt have to worry about him. Well if he was a nice man, he would understand why I acted so rudely. I developed PTSD from this episode and tremble when I get out of the car at night. If he were to push me in my car and take off with me and murder me, would I be at fault because I wasnt more careful about leaving lights on outside?
Its the CRIMINAL'S FAULT. No if, ands, or buts, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
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(posted by Cars)
You're Right DG, no one here I believe is really arguing that point. What is brought out is that people (male & female) need to use their own good judgement when traveling alone. (especially at night) Why look for trouble, cause trouble has a nasty habit of showing up even when you're not looking for it. It has been said, that security people do advise people to leave a light on out side in the evening. Our house has an outside garage light with an inferred sensor, that automatically turns on our garage light at dusk.
In addition, we have a "motion activated" SPOT light over the garage that really illuminates the entire driveway when motion is detected. Likewise we have motion sensor lights in the back & sides of our house. Over cautious, maybe, but feel a little more secure & safe, definately!
But talking about common sense is a good point. Common sense tells a person NOT to murder someone as well as telling someone not to walk down a dark alley at night by yourself intoxicated.
I have a strange mild paranoia about such things. I was getting out of my car and was approached from behind by a "strange" man in my driveway late one night. He said he ran out of gas and asked to use my phone. I tossed, not handed but tossed, the cell phone at him and said I'll be back to get that, go ahead and use it.
I ran inside, let out the dogs and got my dad on the landline while waiting for the him to knock on the door to give me my phone back. He did and told me I didnt have to worry about him. Well if he was a nice man, he would understand why I acted so rudely. I developed PTSD from this episode and tremble when I get out of the car at night. If he were to push me in my car and take off with me and murder me, would I be at fault because I wasnt more careful about leaving lights on outside?
Its the CRIMINAL'S FAULT. No if, ands, or buts, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
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(posted by Cars)
You're Right DG, no one here I believe is really arguing that point. What is brought out is that people (male & female) need to use their own good judgement when traveling alone. (especially at night) Why look for trouble, cause trouble has a nasty habit of showing up even when you're not looking for it. It has been said, that security people do advise people to leave a light on out side in the evening. Our house has an outside garage light with an inferred sensor, that automatically turns on our garage light at dusk.
In addition, we have a "motion activated" SPOT light over the garage that really illuminates the entire driveway when motion is detected. Likewise we have motion sensor lights in the back & sides of our house. Over cautious, maybe, but feel a little more secure & safe, definately!
Cars
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stewartcumming
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 12:51 pm
Blaming the Victim?
Accountable wrote: If you walk in tall grass where you know there are snakes, and a snake bites you, it's your fault.
If you're walking down a salmon stream where you know there are bears, and a bear mauls you, it's your fault.
If you're walking down a dark alley where you know there are killers and rapists, and you get raped and/or killed, it's the fault of the criminal. As much as we say they're animals, they are intelligent humans who can reason and know lawful from unlawful, if not right from wrong. No matter how silly the victim is, it is never the victim's fault.
Thats very well said, and I agree.
It is true that we can all take steps to keep ourselves, if not safe, then certainly safer and I think that is what people are alluding to when they blame the victim. But you can't ALWAYS be thinking about the bad things that can happen to you, that way paranoia and madness lie.
If you're walking down a salmon stream where you know there are bears, and a bear mauls you, it's your fault.
If you're walking down a dark alley where you know there are killers and rapists, and you get raped and/or killed, it's the fault of the criminal. As much as we say they're animals, they are intelligent humans who can reason and know lawful from unlawful, if not right from wrong. No matter how silly the victim is, it is never the victim's fault.
Thats very well said, and I agree.
It is true that we can all take steps to keep ourselves, if not safe, then certainly safer and I think that is what people are alluding to when they blame the victim. But you can't ALWAYS be thinking about the bad things that can happen to you, that way paranoia and madness lie.