Just a question

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:13 pm

theia wrote: I've been here less than nine months and so I would ask the longstanding FG people...has the bickering and banning etc. worsened since the early days or is it just a cyclical thing? If it has increased, why do you think it has? If it hasn't, tee hee, it'll soon be over :)Probably because we have more members now Theia, some a little more diverse than others, some trolls and some just downright rude.

But hey that's what makes it so much more interesting.

booradley · Post by **booradley** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:18 pm

what one person would call a troll, another would call individual

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:28 pm

booradley wrote: what one person would call a troll, another would call individual

very good point.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:29 pm

theia wrote: I've been here less than nine months and so I would ask the longstanding FG people...has the bickering and banning etc. worsened since the early days or is it just a cyclical thing? If it has increased, why do you think it has? If it hasn't, tee hee, it'll soon be over

OK...I've only been here 8 months. IMO things have subtly changed over the last 3 months.

People who have previously been involved or started 'hot' topics have backed off.

There have undoubtedly been a few people here that have deserved to be be banned.

There is also a strong sense of 'community' and strong friendships here.

I guess all 'life' is reflected here.

Sometimes things get 'personal'....that's a shame and peoples feelings get hurt.

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:31 pm

Like the Television .... you can always turn it off I 'spose

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:41 pm

booradley wrote: what one person would call a troll, another would call individual
I can't really agree with that, Boo. A troll by definition is simply there to stir up sh!t. We are all individuals, but our stirring is mixed with real conversation, real debate, real discussion and real friendships. Sure, we all stir the pot now and then, but that's not our sole purpose, which is a trolls.

booradley · Post by **booradley** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:47 pm

minks wrote: very good point.

I do make them occasionally.

booradley · Post by **booradley** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:50 pm

BabyRider wrote: I can't really agree with that, Boo. A troll by definition is simply there to stir up sh!t. We are all individuals, but our stirring is mixed with real conversation, real debate, real discussion and real friendships. Sure, we all stir the pot now and then, but that's not our sole purpose, which is a trolls.
but then you are defining a troll as someone with no personal feelings or emotions. Some trolls have good reason for posting what they do.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:53 pm

From the web: TROLL:

From the fishing term. As a noun, synonymous with flamebait. As a verb, to post controversial or provocative messages in a deliberate attempt to provoke flames.

teladesign.com/ma-thesis/glossary.html

I was kind of surprised this definition beat out the one about the Scandinavian elf who is usually hairy and ugly for the top spot.

booradley · Post by **booradley** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:04 pm

we shouldn't laugh at the mentally ill, Arnold.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:12 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: Boo , they are not named after ugly creatures for nothing

Recognise any of these then Arny ?

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:17 pm

Bez wrote: Recognise any of these then Arny ?

my gosh that is the ex husbands family tree ahahahahahahahaha And the one in the middle is his current .... oh I can't say it ahahahaha

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:18 pm

:wah: I had those dollies as a kid!

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:21 pm

chonsigirl wrote: :wah: I had those dollies as a kid!

ditto

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:24 pm

Far Rider wrote: Good Lord..... Bout time I laid out my 2 cents worth here and this seems to be the thread to do it....

In my experience here so far the ones who have been banned were provoked.

Had they not been provoked, they'd still be here.

kmhowe72. Is a prime example... yes she broke the forum rules and got banned for it... but in my opinion she was picked on till she lashed out in the only way she could have. Since then Ive seen it happen to others.

I've changed how I post because of it. And whenever I see someone getting picked on that doesnt deserve it.. I try to PM them and make them aware of how things work.
kmhowe72. Is a prime example... yes she broke the forum rules and got banned for it... but in my opinion she was picked on till she lashed out in the only way she could have. Since then Ive seen it happen to others.

AMEN!!!!!!

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:37 pm

If you have a problem with someone, take it up with admin. If you have a problem with the way things are run, take it up with admin. They actually listen and consider input.
Some of us tried that when BTS was banned and we were basically told that the decision was made and to shut up. Sometimes, people are PROVOKED into saying something they shouldn't. All I am saying is, they should take into consideration the circumstances, not who is or who is not involved.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:12 pm

Far Rider wrote: I just calls'em like I sees'm... if we're gonna have rules then they need to be as universal as possible... (I realize sometimes special circumstances bend rules but it should be a rarity)... anyway... if one day I come in here all fired up and take it out on You, then I should be as readily bannable as a newbie!

Would someone mind telling a poor newbie what the rules are and where I'd find them?

Amie · Post by **Amie** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:18 pm

Bryn Mawr wrote: Would someone mind telling a poor newbie what the rules are and where I'd find them?

:werd I'd be interested in seeing them too. And who the Moderators and/or Owners are.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:13 pm

Bryn Mawr wrote: Would someone mind telling a poor newbie what the rules are and where I'd find them?
Found it!

http://www.forumgarden.com/terms.html

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:51 pm

When I returned here.. after a 3 month Hiatus, I felt that new people often didnt have a chance in hell of lasting here. Fear, permeated the pages. I have found new people to be jumped on and ridiculed. And truly, they couldnt deal with the caste system. They got fed up, frightened , or discouraged and left. I used to think.. as valuable as long time posters are.... dont the owners want new members? In my brief experience with the internet.... I glanced at other forums, and have always found them to be bizzare slime holes of verbal exhibition ?ism

or juvenille camping grounds for displays of foul language. or twisted thinking. What we have gathered here quite accidently, and miraculously, is a group of participants who are fortunate to enjoy an obvious high level of intelligence. We are articulate... self confident.. outgoing.. personable, and for the most part very well adjusted. Despite our sagas of broken hearts, financial stress, struggles with children and dissapointments with employment... we all are blessed to be living pretty damn good lives. The big mistake that the brawlers are making. Is not realizing that.... " All good things come to and end" Nothing lasts forever....and any king of any mountain, has no where to go but down. I never never let myself say anything about any of this... But Im starting to feel like the person who sits in a room with people using racial slurs.... and says nothing. Because we are such a vibrant and good group of people... life could be utopia here if the bickering could end. Let small insults slide by..... Teach rather than retaliate or attack. Leave vengence to the hell and brimstone preachers. Just enjoy each other .... Slather each other in kindness......

Like jam on bread :p :p

Make each other laugh.....

If your feeling nasty....... go to bed.:wah:

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:19 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: That sounds a little suggestive.

Once again.... Your a PISSA! and I wish!!

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:44 pm

Accountable wrote: Found it!

http://www.forumgarden.com/terms.html

uh, it's not like it's some huge challenge to find them. or that they're buried. every single page on forumgarden has a link to 'legal info'. you know. 'rules'.

Amie · Post by **Amie** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:57 pm

Far Rider wrote: there are no rules for you... you just post what you like I'll protect you!

seriously... here just stay civil even if you disagree, and that about sums up the rules... oh! stay away from Nomad too!:wah:
Wild!!! No rules for me! :yh_party:yh_party:-4

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:02 pm

Peg wrote: Some of us tried that when BTS was banned and we were basically told that the decision was made and to shut up.

you were never told to 'shut up'. it's funny - everyone just is dying to know the dirt, the dirty details behind a situation that winds up with someone being banned. of course, if it was themselves in the balance, they'd be a lot less desirous of having their dirty laundry aired.

in the simplest terms: administrative decisions and how we come to them are not your business, peg. you have your own forum, you make your own rules there. respect that we run the forum here, and we make the rules here. presume, in good faith, that we don't make the decisions lightly. presume, in good faith, that we trouble over such decisions, and weigh them carefully. presume, if you would, that we aren't complete idiots.

Sometimes, people are PROVOKED into saying something they shouldn't.

provoked or not, unless you think humans are incapable of choice - animate meat, as it were - then there's a choice involved in responding. in the case of the two most recent bannings, both of them had been previously warned, and both had been temporarily banned for violating the warnings. they were both warned again, in the most severe terms, that if they continued in their actions, they'd be banned permanently. and they both did it again.

both of them made a choice. a choice with an explictly clear consequence.

sorry, i'm not going to shed any tears.

All I am saying is, they should take into consideration the circumstances, not who is or who is not involved.

and you're suggesting that we don't take the circumstances into account? you're suggesting that one's history of past behaviour should *not* be taken into account? you're suggesting that we just capriciously go around banning people, without a care in the world? if that were the case, why would we bother warning, warning again, banning temporarily and warning upon return, warning upon subsequent violation, then banning?

i mean, how far are we supposed to take the 'doormat' mentality?

the number of people who have been banned from forumgarden for cause - with the exception of spammers, who are merely vermin that need to be immediately sprayed with buckshot - is extremely small. *extremely* small. if you want to look at it another way, we give extremely wide latitude to our users. we are for the most part hands off. i've been on forums where the slightest hint of criticism of the admins results in instant banning. where people are banned on a near daily basis. where people are banned for having a sharp word with another user. and of course, there are also cesspool forums out there where they are effectively lawless, and hostility, aggression, rudeness, meanness, etc are the norm, or even expected. we don't want the former, or the latter. for the most part, forumgardeners comport themselves reasonably. we don't expect pinkie to be lifted whilst sipping tea, nor do we accept the hurling of extremely gross epithets at the unwary. the range of behaviors that are acceptable here is very wide. if things go too far, then someone reports a post, and we look into it. the rest of the time, we stay out of your hair, and you stay out of ours.

why is this not a good way to run a forum, peg?

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:16 pm

kmhowe72. Is a prime example... yes she broke the forum rules and got banned for it... but in my opinion she was picked on till she lashed out in the only way she could have. Since then Ive seen it happen to others.

Peg wrote: AMEN!!!!!!

if you knew even half the story, you'd think twice about that response.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:49 pm

Well I see thing are rolling right along...!!

Paul your the boss it's your forum and your rules. If we can't take the heat I guess we should move on down the road. No body promised them a rose garden..!! :-6

Lighten up folks and enjoy the diverse group we have here in the Garden. I have been on many forums and to date I must say this is the most civilized bunch around. I have never been banned or even give a time out ever, why because when I feel myself getting angry I realize it's time to go to bed as sweet Weeder said, or get off the computer just that simple. You want to argue and bicker it will happen each and every time you want it to.. So we have no one to blame but ourselves when it gets out of control. Breathe deep and chill..

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:11 pm

weeder wrote: When I returned here.. after a 3 month Hiatus, I felt that new people often didnt have a chance in hell of lasting here. Fear, permeated the pages. I have found new people to be jumped on and ridiculed. And truly, they couldnt deal with the caste system. They got fed up, frightened , or discouraged and left. I used to think.. as valuable as long time posters are.... dont the owners want new members? In my brief experience with the internet.... I glanced at other forums, and have always found them to be bizzare slime holes of verbal exhibition ?ism

or juvenille camping grounds for displays of foul language. or twisted thinking. What we have gathered here quite accidently, and miraculously, is a group of participants who are fortunate to enjoy an obvious high level of intelligence. We are articulate... self confident.. outgoing.. personable, and for the most part very well adjusted. Despite our sagas of broken hearts, financial stress, struggles with children and dissapointments with employment... we all are blessed to be living pretty damn good lives. The big mistake that the brawlers are making. Is not realizing that.... " All good things come to and end" Nothing lasts forever....and any king of any mountain, has no where to go but down. I never never let myself say anything about any of this... But Im starting to feel like the person who sits in a room with people using racial slurs.... and says nothing. Because we are such a vibrant and good group of people... life could be utopia here if the bickering could end. Let small insults slide by..... Teach rather than retaliate or attack. Leave vengence to the hell and brimstone preachers. Just enjoy each other .... Slather each other in kindness......

Like jam on bread :p :p

Make each other laugh.....

If your feeling nasty....... go to bed.:wah:

YES Weeder !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And YES Carla !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:14 pm

Accountable wrote: Found it!

http://www.forumgarden.com/terms.html

I'd forgotten agreeing to all of that - thanks for the pointer

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 1:09 am

anastrophe wrote: provoked or not, unless you think humans are incapable of choice - animate meat, as it were - then there's a choice involved in responding.
That. Right there. People are not forced to respond in any way, just as they are not forced to post here at all. Every single one of us chooses what we say and how we say it. When I do it, I know there may be consequences, and it's a chance I choose to take. Let me repeat that: A chance I choose to take.

I have taken flak for some of the things I've said, both from members and the bosses. When it's a member, it depends who it is I'm talking to how I respond. When I get a "back off" from admin., I back off.

There's this funny thing we're all built with. It's called free will and we all exercise it every keystroke we make.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:56 am

BabyRider wrote: That. Right there. People are not forced to respond in any way, just as they are not forced to post here at all. Every single one of us chooses what we say and how we say it. When I do it, I know there may be consequences, and it's a chance I choose to take. Let me repeat that: A chance I choose to take.

I have taken flak for some of the things I've said, both from members and the bosses. When it's a member, it depends who it is I'm talking to how I respond. When I get a "back off" from admin., I back off.

There's this funny thing we're all built with. It's called free will and we all exercise it every keystroke we make.

Free will does carry with it some responsibilities though...and I think most of those responsibilities are covered by FGs 'terms and conditions' .

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:29 am

No offense,

anastrophe, but I TOTALLLLY thought you were a "she"! I guess ANastrophe sounded kind of feminine!:wah:

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:54 am

How about Bronson Pinchot?

Or Manu Ginobilli:

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:07 pm

Bez wrote: Free will does carry with it some responsibilities though...and I think most of those responsibilities are covered by FGs 'terms and conditions' .
Thanks, Bez, I think you just made my point for me. :yh_bigsmi

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:58 pm

Peg wrote: I will be the one person to actually admit that I have often wondered this myself. Seems some can express any opinion, rudely as possible; others cannot. Some can harrass, others cannot defend. Just my opinion.

I have not been back in several days and you are post 6 of several pages.......Thanks

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:01 pm

flopstock wrote: ahh.. the good old days.. when we talked of nothing but war and masterbation..when we addressed the issue and not the person...when i could sign on in hopes of taking nomad out at the knees... in a friendly manner...:rolleyes:

i'll be off to the arcade again i suppose...:p

hi NV girl!:-6

and LMFAO

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:10 pm

minks wrote: online it's easy to be anything, you can be respectful, disrespectful, deceitful, hurtful, joyful etc and no one has to know the real you. I think a thicker skin, the ability to let things roll ofg your back, a sense of humor and just a general whatever attitude is needed online because things can be easily misread, or misinterpreted. Geeze if I cowered from all the nasty PM's I get I would be crying my way to the looney bin.

Thank you Minks........If were all here to agree it would be a very dull place. I just find it sad that people ......like my BTS.........and others cannot do the same.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:13 pm

minks wrote: quack

That is quack QUACK.....:wah:

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:19 pm

minks wrote: Oh IMHO it has increased but so has our numbers of members. You know we really have not had that many bannings when you consider how large we are, and how we have had some controversial folks come and go. It isn't a cycle I don't think, I think at first when a group starts up everyone is all polite and trying to establish a kind of "order" then once we get comfortable we step out and test the waters and that is when controversy is going to show up, after that it is all about how it is handled, you can either be a **** stirrer and get others ticked off at you and let it go, or you can be a **** stirrer once in a while and know when to stop and let it go, you can be a shrinking violet and let everything hurt you, or you can be a duck and let it roll off your back. With a place full of all different personalities we have to expect some muck flinging. Again I think as for the banning, Admin has to have their reasons and I just bet, they have a lot more "behind the scenes" information than a lot of us have.

I agree

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:26 pm

Peg wrote: Some of us tried that when BTS was banned and we were basically told that the decision was made and to shut up. Sometimes, people are PROVOKED into saying something they shouldn't. All I am saying is, they should take into consideration the circumstances, not who is or who is not involved.

SEVERAL people were told to "shut up" or you know where the door is when they defended BTS

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:00 am

nvalleyvee wrote: SEVERAL people were told to "shut up" or you know where the door is when they defended BTSI cannot beleive that either Anastrophe or Tombsone would ever take that stance with members.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:58 am

abbey wrote: I cannot beleive that either Anastrophe or Tombsone would ever take that stance with members.
They wouldn't and didn't. I'll repeat my original post in this thread:

Sour. Grapes.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:11 am

BabyRider wrote: They wouldn't and didn't. I'll repeat my original post in this thread:

Sour. Grapes.Well in that case so will i..

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:14 am

abbey wrote:

'ZACTLY!!!!!

Actually, I keep seeing all these accusations about T and anastrophe telling people to shut up, but as yet, I've seen no links to threads, no posting of quotes, or anything to back up this accusation. Wonder why that is.....