The Gin Blossoms and Jives
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
Sorry, folks, but I'm with Kev on this one, and I'll tell you why. No, I'm not trying to invade anyone's space here either, and, yes, I came over from the other board too. I just think there's something terribly wrong about claiming to be someone you're not, only to get some sort of personal acclaim for yourself. Okay, so this guy claims to have been there "way back when". Fine. Cool, in fact. I come from the early GB days, too, and could tell some stories as well. But even though I shared a few beers and brief conversations with some of the members at one time or another, BFD!!! Do you think they remember me now, almost twenty years later? Hell, no, they don't, and I would be sad if they did...they have had LIVES since then (and so have MOST of us, too), and if they had a nickel for every time they mixed it up with an occasional fan so far back ago that approached them NOW, they'd be REALLY rich. In the end, who cares? It was great fun at the time, and has provided me with many fond memories, but that's all. I would never DREAM of claiming to be best friends with any of the members, let alone outwardly LYING about writing band material. This story got so far-fetched in such a hurry, I'm glad someone who knew finally put a stop to it. And you can ban me, too, but I actually kinda like the forum you've got here. I'll try to check it out before I get ousted. And if anyone is truly interested in the Gin Blossoms and their TRUE heritage, check out our forum listed in the previous post, or the Yahoo! Group I run.
Cheers!
S
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
Fair enough comments, kev and swmp. You sound like a couple of really nice people. And in my opinion so is Jives. I enjoy his posts and I like who he is. It actually doesn't bother me who is right or who is mistaken. Maybe it's time now to put this thread to bed and start afresh...that's clearly not my decision to make, I know, but for me it would feel like the right direction to take.
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
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The Gin Blossoms and Jives
swmpclr wrote: [...]
This story got so far-fetched in such a hurry, I'm glad someone who knew finally put a stop to it. And you can ban me, too, but I actually kinda like the forum you've got here. I'll try to check it out before I get ousted. And if anyone is truly interested in the Gin Blossoms and their TRUE heritage, check out our forum listed in the previous post, or the Yahoo! Group I run.
Cheers!
S
When I read "ban me, too" I thought Kev had been banned, but he hasn't. Neither have you. Look around awhile. There's lots to see.
I've always liked Jives, even though we've had our disagreements. This thread either gives him an opportunity to tell the details that are missing to make both stories make sense (and be the hero), or shows that he writes fiction even where we don't expect to see it.
Fingers crossed.
This story got so far-fetched in such a hurry, I'm glad someone who knew finally put a stop to it. And you can ban me, too, but I actually kinda like the forum you've got here. I'll try to check it out before I get ousted. And if anyone is truly interested in the Gin Blossoms and their TRUE heritage, check out our forum listed in the previous post, or the Yahoo! Group I run.
Cheers!
S
When I read "ban me, too" I thought Kev had been banned, but he hasn't. Neither have you. Look around awhile. There's lots to see.
I've always liked Jives, even though we've had our disagreements. This thread either gives him an opportunity to tell the details that are missing to make both stories make sense (and be the hero), or shows that he writes fiction even where we don't expect to see it.
Fingers crossed.
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
Facts:
the man who co-founded the Gin Blossoms (Jesse) and was decribed as his "best friend" by Ives told me he "never heard of him" and the name Ives "means nothing to me"
Ives said he played with Jesse, Robin, Phil, and Doug (and these are the ONLY guys who know he was in the band) from 82-88---BUT, Robin and Phil did not JOIN the band until 1988. What about the drummer and vocalist before that?? They didn't know you were in the band?
He talks about the meaning of the song "Follow You Down", when it wasn't written until like 1995
The Gin Blossoms did not have their debut concert until Christmas 1987
Ives on the official Gin Blossoms forum said this: "I used to be a cook for Long Wongs when Scott and Dave owned it, before Scott edged Dave out. (I hooked Robin up with free food a lot)" and "Scott gave it to me for workig for him, like I said. He used to give the cooks tapes occasionally, so we could listen to the tape deck while we cooked. "
Somehow within the span of two months he went from being a cook at the bar they played at to being IN the band, writing their most famous songs, and playing with a lineup that didn't EXIST until after he was supposedly in the band.
Phil would have been like 13 in 1982.
the man who co-founded the Gin Blossoms (Jesse) and was decribed as his "best friend" by Ives told me he "never heard of him" and the name Ives "means nothing to me"
Ives said he played with Jesse, Robin, Phil, and Doug (and these are the ONLY guys who know he was in the band) from 82-88---BUT, Robin and Phil did not JOIN the band until 1988. What about the drummer and vocalist before that?? They didn't know you were in the band?
He talks about the meaning of the song "Follow You Down", when it wasn't written until like 1995
The Gin Blossoms did not have their debut concert until Christmas 1987
Ives on the official Gin Blossoms forum said this: "I used to be a cook for Long Wongs when Scott and Dave owned it, before Scott edged Dave out. (I hooked Robin up with free food a lot)" and "Scott gave it to me for workig for him, like I said. He used to give the cooks tapes occasionally, so we could listen to the tape deck while we cooked. "
Somehow within the span of two months he went from being a cook at the bar they played at to being IN the band, writing their most famous songs, and playing with a lineup that didn't EXIST until after he was supposedly in the band.
Phil would have been like 13 in 1982.
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
Everything I posted can easily be found with a little reasearch on the internet. Research he SHOULD have done before he posted his little story with holes all over the place. They are FACTS. But believe him if you want. I don't care. I just wanted to call him out because the Gin Blossoms are my favorite band and it is VERY low to take credit for somebody elses work.
The Gin Blossoms did NOT even exist until Christmas, 1987!!!!!!!!
Founding members and longtime friends Bill Leen and Doug Hopkins first started playing in bands together a few years after graduating from Tempe’s McClintock High School. Doug taught Bill to play the bass, and they formed their first band, Moral Majority, in 1981. The name came after a friend joined The Moral Majority (Jerry Falwell’s conservative organization) under Doug’s name as a joke. The band’s t-shirts were the Moral Majority logo behind the international void symbol (y’know, like the no smoking signs).
Next came the Psalms in 1982, a band which also included Jim Swafford (who would later co-write the Blossoms’ song, "Mrs. Rita") and Alan Long (replaced in 1993 by Richard Flower, Jeff Swartz and Steve Brown). The Psalms released a 45-rpm single ("A Story I Was Told" b/w "Christmas Island") and a local cassette called "No Great Cathedral" (which contained "100 Summers," Monique Leshea," "Procession" and "Where The Grass Once Grew"). The band’s other claim to fame was a gig opening for Billy Idol at the Devil House in Tempe in 1983. They filled the vacancy left when a new band called REM wasn’t able to play.
Despite a healthy local following and some good press, The Psalms soon broke up because of personality conflicts. Then came Algebra Ranch, who were the first band to perform Doug’s song "Angels Tonight." (The Blossoms later recorded it for the Up and Crumbling EP.) But Algebra Ranch also went the way of The Psalms, and dissolved because of internal conflicts.
Doug and Bill spent most of 1986 in Portland, playing in a band called Ten O’Clock Scholars (with Jim Swafford, David McKay and Randy Sanders). After returning to Tempe, Doug and Bill decided to start yet another band. They concocted the name "Gin Blossoms" after seeing a cable special on Kenneth Anger’s book "Hollywood Babylon II," which contained that famous picture of comedian W.C. Fields (who had quite a bad case of gin blossoms from years of heavy drinking). The original Blossoms featured Doug on lead guitar, Bill on bass, Tempe-based guitarist Jesse Valenzuela as lead singer, Richard Taylor on rhythm guitar and vocals, and Chris McCann on drums. The Blossoms played their first gig on Christmas Day 1987 at the Mason Jar in Phoenix.
The original lineup didn’t last long thoughâ€Chris later defected to Tahiti with his girlfriend, and Richard was fired. The 1988 vintage Blossoms then included Robin Wilson on rhythm guitar and vocals, and Dan Henzerling on drums. Robin was a clerk at Zia Records in Tempe, a favorite hangout of local musicians. He had also performed with local bands Guy Smiley and Bed-Spurs. Dan had previously worked with Robin, but he didn’t stay longâ€Phillip Rhodes, fresh from the Navy, replaced him on drums later that year. The Blossoms’ lineup finally solidified when Robin became lead singer and Jesse switched to rhythm guitar and vocals.
The Gin Blossoms did NOT even exist until Christmas, 1987!!!!!!!!
Founding members and longtime friends Bill Leen and Doug Hopkins first started playing in bands together a few years after graduating from Tempe’s McClintock High School. Doug taught Bill to play the bass, and they formed their first band, Moral Majority, in 1981. The name came after a friend joined The Moral Majority (Jerry Falwell’s conservative organization) under Doug’s name as a joke. The band’s t-shirts were the Moral Majority logo behind the international void symbol (y’know, like the no smoking signs).
Next came the Psalms in 1982, a band which also included Jim Swafford (who would later co-write the Blossoms’ song, "Mrs. Rita") and Alan Long (replaced in 1993 by Richard Flower, Jeff Swartz and Steve Brown). The Psalms released a 45-rpm single ("A Story I Was Told" b/w "Christmas Island") and a local cassette called "No Great Cathedral" (which contained "100 Summers," Monique Leshea," "Procession" and "Where The Grass Once Grew"). The band’s other claim to fame was a gig opening for Billy Idol at the Devil House in Tempe in 1983. They filled the vacancy left when a new band called REM wasn’t able to play.
Despite a healthy local following and some good press, The Psalms soon broke up because of personality conflicts. Then came Algebra Ranch, who were the first band to perform Doug’s song "Angels Tonight." (The Blossoms later recorded it for the Up and Crumbling EP.) But Algebra Ranch also went the way of The Psalms, and dissolved because of internal conflicts.
Doug and Bill spent most of 1986 in Portland, playing in a band called Ten O’Clock Scholars (with Jim Swafford, David McKay and Randy Sanders). After returning to Tempe, Doug and Bill decided to start yet another band. They concocted the name "Gin Blossoms" after seeing a cable special on Kenneth Anger’s book "Hollywood Babylon II," which contained that famous picture of comedian W.C. Fields (who had quite a bad case of gin blossoms from years of heavy drinking). The original Blossoms featured Doug on lead guitar, Bill on bass, Tempe-based guitarist Jesse Valenzuela as lead singer, Richard Taylor on rhythm guitar and vocals, and Chris McCann on drums. The Blossoms played their first gig on Christmas Day 1987 at the Mason Jar in Phoenix.
The original lineup didn’t last long thoughâ€Chris later defected to Tahiti with his girlfriend, and Richard was fired. The 1988 vintage Blossoms then included Robin Wilson on rhythm guitar and vocals, and Dan Henzerling on drums. Robin was a clerk at Zia Records in Tempe, a favorite hangout of local musicians. He had also performed with local bands Guy Smiley and Bed-Spurs. Dan had previously worked with Robin, but he didn’t stay longâ€Phillip Rhodes, fresh from the Navy, replaced him on drums later that year. The Blossoms’ lineup finally solidified when Robin became lead singer and Jesse switched to rhythm guitar and vocals.
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
kevaxe2k2 wrote: Everything I posted can easily be found with a little reasearch on the internet. Research he SHOULD have done before he posted his little story with holes all over the place. They are FACTS. But believe him if you want. I don't care. I just wanted to call him out because the Gin Blossoms are my favorite band and it is VERY low to take credit for somebody elses work.
The Gin Blossoms did NOT even exist until Christmas, 1987!!!!!!!!
Founding members and longtime friends Bill Leen and Doug Hopkins first started playing in bands together a few years after graduating from Tempe’s McClintock High School. Doug taught Bill to play the bass, and they formed their first band, Moral Majority, in 1981. The name came after a friend joined The Moral Majority (Jerry Falwell’s conservative organization) under Doug’s name as a joke. The band’s t-shirts were the Moral Majority logo behind the international void symbol (y’know, like the no smoking signs).
Next came the Psalms in 1982, a band which also included Jim Swafford (who would later co-write the Blossoms’ song, "Mrs. Rita") and Alan Long (replaced in 1993 by Richard Flower, Jeff Swartz and Steve Brown). The Psalms released a 45-rpm single ("A Story I Was Told" b/w "Christmas Island") and a local cassette called "No Great Cathedral" (which contained "100 Summers," Monique Leshea," "Procession" and "Where The Grass Once Grew"). The band’s other claim to fame was a gig opening for Billy Idol at the Devil House in Tempe in 1983. They filled the vacancy left when a new band called REM wasn’t able to play.
Despite a healthy local following and some good press, The Psalms soon broke up because of personality conflicts. Then came Algebra Ranch, who were the first band to perform Doug’s song "Angels Tonight." (The Blossoms later recorded it for the Up and Crumbling EP.) But Algebra Ranch also went the way of The Psalms, and dissolved because of internal conflicts.
Doug and Bill spent most of 1986 in Portland, playing in a band called Ten O’Clock Scholars (with Jim Swafford, David McKay and Randy Sanders). After returning to Tempe, Doug and Bill decided to start yet another band. They concocted the name "Gin Blossoms" after seeing a cable special on Kenneth Anger’s book "Hollywood Babylon II," which contained that famous picture of comedian W.C. Fields (who had quite a bad case of gin blossoms from years of heavy drinking). The original Blossoms featured Doug on lead guitar, Bill on bass, Tempe-based guitarist Jesse Valenzuela as lead singer, Richard Taylor on rhythm guitar and vocals, and Chris McCann on drums. The Blossoms played their first gig on Christmas Day 1987 at the Mason Jar in Phoenix.
The original lineup didn’t last long thoughâ€Chris later defected to Tahiti with his girlfriend, and Richard was fired. The 1988 vintage Blossoms then included Robin Wilson on rhythm guitar and vocals, and Dan Henzerling on drums. Robin was a clerk at Zia Records in Tempe, a favorite hangout of local musicians. He had also performed with local bands Guy Smiley and Bed-Spurs. Dan had previously worked with Robin, but he didn’t stay longâ€Phillip Rhodes, fresh from the Navy, replaced him on drums later that year. The Blossoms’ lineup finally solidified when Robin became lead singer and Jesse switched to rhythm guitar and vocals.
Ok you have made your point perhaps giving this thread a little room to breath is a good idea. Perhaps Mr Ives was known by another name. Please understand many of the FG members here have come to know and like and respect Mr Ives and find this something a bit beyond our comprehension. I assure you Mr Ives has a answer for you and it will be made clear to all who are wondering. Allow him time to come in and respond, unlike myself, he isn't here every day, please allow him this courtesy.
The Gin Blossoms did NOT even exist until Christmas, 1987!!!!!!!!
Founding members and longtime friends Bill Leen and Doug Hopkins first started playing in bands together a few years after graduating from Tempe’s McClintock High School. Doug taught Bill to play the bass, and they formed their first band, Moral Majority, in 1981. The name came after a friend joined The Moral Majority (Jerry Falwell’s conservative organization) under Doug’s name as a joke. The band’s t-shirts were the Moral Majority logo behind the international void symbol (y’know, like the no smoking signs).
Next came the Psalms in 1982, a band which also included Jim Swafford (who would later co-write the Blossoms’ song, "Mrs. Rita") and Alan Long (replaced in 1993 by Richard Flower, Jeff Swartz and Steve Brown). The Psalms released a 45-rpm single ("A Story I Was Told" b/w "Christmas Island") and a local cassette called "No Great Cathedral" (which contained "100 Summers," Monique Leshea," "Procession" and "Where The Grass Once Grew"). The band’s other claim to fame was a gig opening for Billy Idol at the Devil House in Tempe in 1983. They filled the vacancy left when a new band called REM wasn’t able to play.
Despite a healthy local following and some good press, The Psalms soon broke up because of personality conflicts. Then came Algebra Ranch, who were the first band to perform Doug’s song "Angels Tonight." (The Blossoms later recorded it for the Up and Crumbling EP.) But Algebra Ranch also went the way of The Psalms, and dissolved because of internal conflicts.
Doug and Bill spent most of 1986 in Portland, playing in a band called Ten O’Clock Scholars (with Jim Swafford, David McKay and Randy Sanders). After returning to Tempe, Doug and Bill decided to start yet another band. They concocted the name "Gin Blossoms" after seeing a cable special on Kenneth Anger’s book "Hollywood Babylon II," which contained that famous picture of comedian W.C. Fields (who had quite a bad case of gin blossoms from years of heavy drinking). The original Blossoms featured Doug on lead guitar, Bill on bass, Tempe-based guitarist Jesse Valenzuela as lead singer, Richard Taylor on rhythm guitar and vocals, and Chris McCann on drums. The Blossoms played their first gig on Christmas Day 1987 at the Mason Jar in Phoenix.
The original lineup didn’t last long thoughâ€Chris later defected to Tahiti with his girlfriend, and Richard was fired. The 1988 vintage Blossoms then included Robin Wilson on rhythm guitar and vocals, and Dan Henzerling on drums. Robin was a clerk at Zia Records in Tempe, a favorite hangout of local musicians. He had also performed with local bands Guy Smiley and Bed-Spurs. Dan had previously worked with Robin, but he didn’t stay longâ€Phillip Rhodes, fresh from the Navy, replaced him on drums later that year. The Blossoms’ lineup finally solidified when Robin became lead singer and Jesse switched to rhythm guitar and vocals.
Ok you have made your point perhaps giving this thread a little room to breath is a good idea. Perhaps Mr Ives was known by another name. Please understand many of the FG members here have come to know and like and respect Mr Ives and find this something a bit beyond our comprehension. I assure you Mr Ives has a answer for you and it will be made clear to all who are wondering. Allow him time to come in and respond, unlike myself, he isn't here every day, please allow him this courtesy.
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
• Mae West
• Mae West
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
Yes, there was no WAY he was gonna post he was in the band at our forum--because he knew he would get called out immediately. Here, he assumed he was safe I guess.
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
kevaxe2k2 wrote: Yes, there was no WAY he was gonna post he was in the band at our forum--because he knew he would get called out immediately. Here, he assumed he was safe I guess.
Oh I think there you are wrong.... Mr Ives is not a stupid person, there is no way he would go online in any way shape or form and make this all up knowing full well anyone anywhere can check his credibility after all that is what the internet is for. Good lord how stupid do you think people are. Again I ask, give it time, he will be back with an explanation that makes perfect sense. Patience. He is a busy man who doesn't post daily or weekly for that matter.
Oh I think there you are wrong.... Mr Ives is not a stupid person, there is no way he would go online in any way shape or form and make this all up knowing full well anyone anywhere can check his credibility after all that is what the internet is for. Good lord how stupid do you think people are. Again I ask, give it time, he will be back with an explanation that makes perfect sense. Patience. He is a busy man who doesn't post daily or weekly for that matter.
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
• Mae West
• Mae West
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
Give me a break. He posted two completely different things. At the official gin blossoms forum he was a cook at the bar and knew the guys. Here, he was in the band for 6 years, wrote some of their most famous songs. The lineup and story of the band is well known for any real fan, and it did not involve him (just like Jesse Valenzuela told me yesterday). AND the people he played with for 6 years were NOT in the band at the time and the band wasn't in EXISTENCE until the very end of the 6 years he was supposedly in it. Flat out, the guy told two stories and is LYING. Defend him all you want---but you are WRONG.
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
What British band do you like?
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
Awesome--agreed! I run a Beatles forum!
p101.ezboard.com/fkevsworldfrm1
p101.ezboard.com/fkevsworldfrm1
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
kevaxe2k2 wrote: What British band do you like?
At last!
Welcome to ForumGarden
At last!
Welcome to ForumGarden
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
??????? Thanks!
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
kevaxe2k2 wrote: Give me a break. He posted two completely different things. At the official gin blossoms forum he was a cook at the bar and knew the guys. Here, he was in the band for 6 years, wrote some of their most famous songs. The lineup and story of the band is well known for any real fan, and it did not involve him (just like Jesse Valenzuela told me yesterday). AND the people he played with for 6 years were NOT in the band at the time and the band wasn't in EXISTENCE until the very end of the 6 years he was supposedly in it. Flat out, the guy told two stories and is LYING. Defend him all you want---but you are WRONG.
Then I guess I will make that opinion when Mr Ives comes back to explain. Thanks I guess.
Then I guess I will make that opinion when Mr Ives comes back to explain. Thanks I guess.
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
• Mae West
• Mae West
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
I understand you defending your friend.
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
Sure, why not? THANKS!!!!!!!:guitarist
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
Far Rider wrote: Whoa Clancy I got no problem with you or what you post, never did. The issue between you and Jives was legit, my issue with that was trying to keep it from getting bigger and it got blown out of proportion.. I backed off of that and let it go when I only made the issue worse.
As far as this issue here, I'm expressing that they came her lookin for a head, its not that easy to me, the going through me comment is to let them know they are being scrutinized. thats all.
I can appreciate this if its true, which I doubt it is.... Jives and I have our differences too. But I aint gonna take their side right off, till I know Jives... they can post all they want.
Anyone would take the same stand Far, as you do for a friend. Good on you.
As far as this issue here, I'm expressing that they came her lookin for a head, its not that easy to me, the going through me comment is to let them know they are being scrutinized. thats all.
I can appreciate this if its true, which I doubt it is.... Jives and I have our differences too. But I aint gonna take their side right off, till I know Jives... they can post all they want.
Anyone would take the same stand Far, as you do for a friend. Good on you.
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
• Mae West
• Mae West
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
Far Rider wrote:
I can appreciate this if its true, which I doubt it is.... Jives and I have our differences too. But I aint gonna take their side right off, till I know Jives... they can post all they want.
A SIMPLE Google search will PROVE what I am saying is true. Ives was NOT in the Gin Blossoms from 82-88 playing with Phil, Jesse, Doug, and Robin BECAUSE the Gin Blossoms did NOT exist until December, 1987 and Robin and Phil were not in the band UNTIL 1988.
I can appreciate this if its true, which I doubt it is.... Jives and I have our differences too. But I aint gonna take their side right off, till I know Jives... they can post all they want.
A SIMPLE Google search will PROVE what I am saying is true. Ives was NOT in the Gin Blossoms from 82-88 playing with Phil, Jesse, Doug, and Robin BECAUSE the Gin Blossoms did NOT exist until December, 1987 and Robin and Phil were not in the band UNTIL 1988.
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
Far Rider wrote: Im not gonna speak for Jives, he's a man of his own accord. I'm not gonna delve into your side till I see Jives post, Your an outsider coming in here, Im giving jives first crack at it. Thats all.
If your tellin the truth, which I still doubt, then sit back and wait...
How do I know you two dont have an axe to grind and have made all his stuff up? You see I don't know you at all, but Jives has one hell of an impeccable reputation. So imagine this from my perspective.
If I'm telling the truth????? I said OVER AND OVER this are FACTS. The things I am posting are NOT my words. They are facts you can find ALL OVER the internet. Go to google type in "gin blossoms biography" or the like and you will see they did not exist in 82,83,84,85, 86, and most of 87....PERIOD. The people he said he played with from 82-88 were not in the band UNTIL 1988. Go to ginblossoms. net or ginblossoms.info and you will see it backs up EVERYTHING I have said. Go to ginblossoms.net and see he posted a COMPLETELY different story regarding his history with the band.THe band's lineup and story is very well known to their fans..and it does NOT include one Mr. Ives.
If your tellin the truth, which I still doubt, then sit back and wait...
How do I know you two dont have an axe to grind and have made all his stuff up? You see I don't know you at all, but Jives has one hell of an impeccable reputation. So imagine this from my perspective.
If I'm telling the truth????? I said OVER AND OVER this are FACTS. The things I am posting are NOT my words. They are facts you can find ALL OVER the internet. Go to google type in "gin blossoms biography" or the like and you will see they did not exist in 82,83,84,85, 86, and most of 87....PERIOD. The people he said he played with from 82-88 were not in the band UNTIL 1988. Go to ginblossoms. net or ginblossoms.info and you will see it backs up EVERYTHING I have said. Go to ginblossoms.net and see he posted a COMPLETELY different story regarding his history with the band.THe band's lineup and story is very well known to their fans..and it does NOT include one Mr. Ives.
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
kevaxe2k2 wrote: If I'm telling the truth????? I said OVER AND OVER this are FACTS. The things I am posting are NOT my words. They are facts you can find ALL OVER the internet. Go to google type in "gin blossoms biography" or the like and you will see they did not exist in 82,83,84,85, 86, and most of 87....PERIOD. The people he said he played with from 82-88 were not in the band UNTIL 1988. Go to ginblossoms. net or ginblossoms.info and you will see it backs up EVERYTHING I have said. Go to ginblossoms.net and see he posted a COMPLETELY different story regarding his history with the band.THe band's lineup and story is very well known to their fans..and it does NOT include one Mr. Ives.
Slight problem with this. I've been around bands who've bumbled about for a while, changed line up a few times and not done much. Then the good times come and the CDs roll out.
A few years later (or less) the official biog reads very differently - they formed a few weeks / months before they made it and nothing existed before then.
I'll wait to hear both sides of the story if you don't mind - I don't believe everything I read on the internet
Slight problem with this. I've been around bands who've bumbled about for a while, changed line up a few times and not done much. Then the good times come and the CDs roll out.
A few years later (or less) the official biog reads very differently - they formed a few weeks / months before they made it and nothing existed before then.
I'll wait to hear both sides of the story if you don't mind - I don't believe everything I read on the internet
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
ArnoldLayne wrote: I just want to jump in and say a thing or two that i have already said in PM's to people. Me and Jives have had our disagreements in the past. A recent episode he was involved in with a few other members saw me fervently disagreeing with his stance and I thought his actions were unnecessary and told him so.....history now
However, this episode was quite a shock and despite any reservations I had with him, he was/is a respected member. I find this really quite sad, becuse it really wasn't necessary and I for one will not be gloating if it is found that he was being less than honest with us.
This place isnt real life, well not quite. We come here for entertainment after all
:-4 :-4 Bless you Studmuffin.
However, this episode was quite a shock and despite any reservations I had with him, he was/is a respected member. I find this really quite sad, becuse it really wasn't necessary and I for one will not be gloating if it is found that he was being less than honest with us.
This place isnt real life, well not quite. We come here for entertainment after all
:-4 :-4 Bless you Studmuffin.-
SweetDarlin
- Posts: 1121
- Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:53 am
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
ArnoldLayne wrote: This place isnt real life, well not quite. We come here for entertainment after all ;)Amen!
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The Gin Blossoms and Jives
Yes!!! I've really enjoyed Jives' stories and his fine limericks too and I'd like to believe there is an acceptable explanation for all this. If the allegations are in fact true, it impacts on everything else he's posted here in the past or may in the future, including all that personal outpouring that wrenched at my heartstrings. I love a bit of fun playacting, and can tell a tall tale with the best of them, but geesch... conning your mates on serious stuff is not on. I remain a confused little vegemite.
"Life is too short to ski with ugly men"
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
ArnoldLayne wrote: I just want to jump in and say a thing or two that i have already said in PM's to people. Me and Jives have had our disagreements in the past. A recent episode he was involved in with a few other members saw me fervently disagreeing with his stance and I thought his actions were unnecessary and told him so.....history now
However, this episode was quite a shock and despite any reservations I had with him, he was/is a respected member. I find this really quite sad, becuse it really wasn't necessary and I for one will not be gloating if it is found that he was being less than honest with us.
This place isnt real life, well not quite. We come here for entertainment after all
Well said, Arnold
However, this episode was quite a shock and despite any reservations I had with him, he was/is a respected member. I find this really quite sad, becuse it really wasn't necessary and I for one will not be gloating if it is found that he was being less than honest with us.
This place isnt real life, well not quite. We come here for entertainment after all
Well said, Arnold
Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answers...Rainer Maria Rilke
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SweetDarlin
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The Gin Blossoms and Jives
JAB wrote: I'm giving Jives the benefit of the doubt until we hear his side. A person is, after all, innocent until proven guilty. The allegations are to this point just that - allegations. Let's allow the man a chance to explain himself.right on!:-6
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The Gin Blossoms and Jives
Wow. I had hoped that this wouldn't turn into a mess, but it sorta has. But it's also interesting. The only thing remaining is for Ives to come clean, and hopefully hang onto the friendships he obviously has made here. And I mean this sincerely...it would be a shame if he got burned and lost touch with people who seem to care about him in this forum, simply because he felt the need to wrongly take credit for something he shouldn't have. Hey, we have our own forums, and hate nothing more than some 'foreigner' coming in and starting trouble, so that was NOT my intention, and I think the same goes for Kev, although I don't claim to know him personally (joke). It's commendable that you take up for folks you have come to know over the months/years, as we have the same relationships in the forums we represent. There is just something inherently wrong with changing one's identity with others who have worked decades to create - music/art/performance/whatever to bring enjoyment to others while tapping creative flow and making a living all at the same time. While I view schoolteachers as equal to, if not overshadowing entertainers in the grand world scheme of importance, it will be EXTRA sad for me if Ives can't produce facts that make us all wrong and humbly apologize, including his alleged bandmate, Jesse. And don't get the idea that we are merely groupies believing all that the GB tell us is the Gospel...we rip the band when we feel like they deserve it, and move on. It's just that some of us go waaaaay back, and don't appreciate it when somebody pops out of the blue pretending to be famous. I distinctly remember when Ives first posted: it was a friendly, cordial "shout out" to the band members reminding them of some of the times they had shared so long ago. He CLEARLY knew them in one respect or another. Nobody ripped him, everyone took him at his word...hell, even the singer's BROTHER replied to him, saying he would pass on the warm greeting! And nothing since, until now. Nobody is out for blood here...we'd just like some clarification of the truth. You guys seem like fair people...I'll just wait with you for a response...
Thanks for the opportunity to set things straight.
S
Thanks for the opportunity to set things straight.
S
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
Here is a little something posted at the gin blossoms forum by another fan that also knows the bands history.
New postPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:47 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Far Rider wrote:
In theory, there's nothing wrong with that at all. But the avalanche of evidence can't be ignored:
1. The Gin Blossoms didn't even exist until late 1987. In fact, founding member Doug Hopkins was in at least four other bands between 1981 and 1987; founding member Bill Leen was in at least three; founding member Jesse Valenzuela was in at least two. So Mr. Ives' contention that he was a member of the Blossoms between 1982 and 1988 is inherently incredible.
2. When Mr. Ives first posted on this site, he reported he was a cook at Long Wongs during the late 80s. In FG, however, he stated he was a member of the Blossoms who co-wrote songs. Those two versions of the "facts," ostensibly from the same person, can't be reconciled.
3. A number of members of this board have live recordings of early Blossoms shows. If Mr. Ives ever appeared on even one of them, don't you think that someone here would come to his defense? I can assure you: This is not a monolithic group who sticks together just for the sake of sticking together. No one here has come to his defense because there is nothing to defend.
In turning a blind eye to this evidence, I fear this is a case of "I Don't Wanna Know." (Sorry, Mark.)
In the very least people, at least give me that he told two very DIFFERENT stories to two sets up people. Those are his words---not anyone else's.
New postPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:47 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Far Rider wrote:
In theory, there's nothing wrong with that at all. But the avalanche of evidence can't be ignored:
1. The Gin Blossoms didn't even exist until late 1987. In fact, founding member Doug Hopkins was in at least four other bands between 1981 and 1987; founding member Bill Leen was in at least three; founding member Jesse Valenzuela was in at least two. So Mr. Ives' contention that he was a member of the Blossoms between 1982 and 1988 is inherently incredible.
2. When Mr. Ives first posted on this site, he reported he was a cook at Long Wongs during the late 80s. In FG, however, he stated he was a member of the Blossoms who co-wrote songs. Those two versions of the "facts," ostensibly from the same person, can't be reconciled.
3. A number of members of this board have live recordings of early Blossoms shows. If Mr. Ives ever appeared on even one of them, don't you think that someone here would come to his defense? I can assure you: This is not a monolithic group who sticks together just for the sake of sticking together. No one here has come to his defense because there is nothing to defend.
In turning a blind eye to this evidence, I fear this is a case of "I Don't Wanna Know." (Sorry, Mark.)
In the very least people, at least give me that he told two very DIFFERENT stories to two sets up people. Those are his words---not anyone else's.
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
No need to cast doubt--it won't help when people ignore the facts. This is my final post here--and it is one just posted by Spades44 at the Gin Blossoms forum. Once again. sheds some light on just how out of whack Ive's claims are. Come to ginblossoms.net for more:
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To start of I want to put it out there that none of you know me. I don't post here regularly, I pretty much lurk, and enjoy reading the conversations I see posted on here. One thing I can tell you is that the Blossoms are my favorite band, and over the years my appreciation for their history has only grown. I love everything they've put out whether it was with Doug or post-Doug. I am a Gin Blossoms fan. Now onto the issue at hand. I've really been reluctant to get involved in this seeing as its really so inane. I've followed the entire debate, read the other guys posts, and feel at this point I need to put my two cents in.
Jives or Mr. Ives, whatever he calls himself is obviously lying, or has severe delusions of grandeur. Any hardcore/dedicated Gin Blossoms fan knows this. We all know that the band wasn't even together during the dates he claimed and that Jesse doesn't even know who he is. This basically supports what we knew initially seeing as that every incarnation of the Blossoms roster changes before settling on the final line-up is readily available online. Fans know that this man was never, and never will be a Gin Blossom.
My main concern about this entire debate is why these people so fervently defend this man. My main question about the poster defending him is are they even fans of the Gin Blossoms. Unfortunately the Gin Blossoms are rather obscure, and I find it incredibly disturbing that people who potentially know nothing about the Blossoms, are so resistant to listen to people who love this band enough to come on a website and discuss them.
In the end, we'll never be able to convince them otherwise. People believe lies every day. What disgusts me most is that this man is trying to take glory from Doug. There are few things more offensive than taking achievements from the dead, and claiming to have signifigantly contributed to the writing of "Found out about you" and "Hey Jealousy" and a couple others, the thought of that actually makes me sick to my stomach. There's something seriously wrong with this person, and the people that are defending him. All they need to do is some simple independent research. The proof is out there.
If I've offended anyone I'm sorry, namely the people that believe Ives. I'm sure he's established himself as a credible person, and I know you want to be loyal and believe him, but he is lying. The only other options are that he's deluded himself to the point where he actually believes what he's saying, the entire roster of the Gin Blossoms have been lying since their inception which was actually five years earlier than they previously claimed, OR for any comic book fans Professor Charles Xavier has used his telepathy to wipe the memories of all parties involved, and Ives has only recently conquered the good professors telepathic blocks.
Love Live the Gin Blossoms
Spades
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To start of I want to put it out there that none of you know me. I don't post here regularly, I pretty much lurk, and enjoy reading the conversations I see posted on here. One thing I can tell you is that the Blossoms are my favorite band, and over the years my appreciation for their history has only grown. I love everything they've put out whether it was with Doug or post-Doug. I am a Gin Blossoms fan. Now onto the issue at hand. I've really been reluctant to get involved in this seeing as its really so inane. I've followed the entire debate, read the other guys posts, and feel at this point I need to put my two cents in.
Jives or Mr. Ives, whatever he calls himself is obviously lying, or has severe delusions of grandeur. Any hardcore/dedicated Gin Blossoms fan knows this. We all know that the band wasn't even together during the dates he claimed and that Jesse doesn't even know who he is. This basically supports what we knew initially seeing as that every incarnation of the Blossoms roster changes before settling on the final line-up is readily available online. Fans know that this man was never, and never will be a Gin Blossom.
My main concern about this entire debate is why these people so fervently defend this man. My main question about the poster defending him is are they even fans of the Gin Blossoms. Unfortunately the Gin Blossoms are rather obscure, and I find it incredibly disturbing that people who potentially know nothing about the Blossoms, are so resistant to listen to people who love this band enough to come on a website and discuss them.
In the end, we'll never be able to convince them otherwise. People believe lies every day. What disgusts me most is that this man is trying to take glory from Doug. There are few things more offensive than taking achievements from the dead, and claiming to have signifigantly contributed to the writing of "Found out about you" and "Hey Jealousy" and a couple others, the thought of that actually makes me sick to my stomach. There's something seriously wrong with this person, and the people that are defending him. All they need to do is some simple independent research. The proof is out there.
If I've offended anyone I'm sorry, namely the people that believe Ives. I'm sure he's established himself as a credible person, and I know you want to be loyal and believe him, but he is lying. The only other options are that he's deluded himself to the point where he actually believes what he's saying, the entire roster of the Gin Blossoms have been lying since their inception which was actually five years earlier than they previously claimed, OR for any comic book fans Professor Charles Xavier has used his telepathy to wipe the memories of all parties involved, and Ives has only recently conquered the good professors telepathic blocks.
Love Live the Gin Blossoms
Spades
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Accountable
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The Gin Blossoms and Jives
Dangit, Scrat. I was just getting ready to defend you & find out your just jumping into somebody else's dialog. :yh_frustr
Far's loyalty is strong, not misplaced. If Jives proves to be less than he's presented himself, you can bet Far's loyalty will adjust accordingly. It's hard for me to imagine it being misplace.
Far's loyalty is strong, not misplaced. If Jives proves to be less than he's presented himself, you can bet Far's loyalty will adjust accordingly. It's hard for me to imagine it being misplace.
The Gin Blossoms and Jives
Accountable wrote: Far's loyalty is strong, not misplaced. If Jives proves to be less than he's presented himself, you can bet Far's loyalty will adjust accordingly.Actually, I strongly hope you're mistaken in saying that. Jives is a friend, not merely a passing acquaintance to be shrugged off if the going gets tough.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.