The DaVinci Code may have unwittingly [or orthwise] brought up the most uncomfortable questions about the origins of the Christian' church, its effect can at best only further erode the credibility of an already creaking institution. But what might very well bring the church down is circulating on the web. Check this ebook review I found [free of copyright] at another forum. The download is all too real!
The first wholly new interpretation for 2000 years of the moral teachings of Jesus the Christ, entitled The Final Freedoms, focuses specifically and comprehensively on marriage and human sexuality, challenging natural law theory and theology. At stake are several thousand years of religious tradition and history.
What at first appears an utterly preposterous challenge to the religious status quo rewards those who persevere in closer examination, for it carries within its pages an idea both subtle and sublime, what the combined intellectual histories of religion and science have either ignored or dismissed as impossible. An error of presumption which could now leave tradition staring into the abyss and humble the heights of scientific speculation. For if this material is confirmed, and there appears to be both the means and a concerted effort to authenticate it, the greatest unresolved questions of human existence may finally have been untangled.
Published only on the web and distributed freely as a pdf download, made up of twenty nine chapters and three hundred and seventy pages, this new teaching has nothing whatsoever to do with any existing religious conception known to history. It is unique in every respect.
Using a synthesis of hundreds of scriptural elements from the Old and New Testaments, the Apocrypha , The Dead Sea Scrolls,The Nag Hammadi Library, and some of the worlds greatest poetry, it describes and teaches a single moral LAW, a single moral principle and offers its own proof; one in which the reality of God responds to an act of perfect faith with a direct, individual intervention into the natural world; making a correction to human nature by a change in natural law, altering biology, consciousness, human ethical perception, and providing new, primary insight and understanding of the human condition.
Also called the Gospel of the Resurrection, this new interpretation reveals the moral foundation of all human thought and conduct and finds expression within a new covenant of human spiritual union, the marriage [Hieros gamos] between one man and one woman. It resolves the most intractable questions and issues of human sexuality and offers possibilities for peace, health, healing and cultural development political process has yet to dream of.
This new teaching is pure ethics. It requires no institutional framework, no churches, no priest craft, no scholastic theological rational, costs nothing and ‘worship’ requires only conviction, faith and the necessary measure of self discipline to accomplish a new moral imperative.
As the first ever religious teaching able to demonstrate its own efficacy, the first ever religious claim to knowledge that meets both the ideal and criteria of the most rigourous, testable scientific method, this teaching enters the public domain as a reality entirely new to human history.
The beginnings of an intellectual and moral revolution are unfolding on the web. And anyone trying to imagine where solutions to the worlds most difficult conundrums will come from, may comprehend from this material, the catalyst that might very well define the very future of humanity and the earth itself!
[As new member I am not allowed to post ULRs, but send me an Email or private message and I am happy to supply links]
The Final Freedoms
The Final Freedoms
The gnostics thought the same thing. It's not new. There is nothing revolutionary about it......*yawn* It's been done before. And we were warned about every new 'theology' and 'false prophet' that was to come. The 'other' book has already warned us about you.
Faith only comes by hearing the word of God. Not the word of man. What you're saying is that what man thinks is better than what God thinks. I dont think so.
Faith only comes by hearing the word of God. Not the word of man. What you're saying is that what man thinks is better than what God thinks. I dont think so.
~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
The Final Freedoms
Anyone who cannot examine ideas and can only attempt to discredit them, even before he has read them, demonstrates only fear and the failure of reason. There has never been a promise [or Word] from God, defined by any existing tradition, whereby God is prepared to confirm it by a direct intervention and demonstration of his power into the natural world.
If the word of God is already in the world, then you must except the evil is stronger than God, for self evidently evil has not been conquered by any faith? Yet this new and it is very new, interpretation offers the means to do just that, for progress far beyond any political potential. What honest man would prefere the staus quo to such a great possibility? Only one who cannot face the fact that his own faith is no more than a theological illusion. The product of a human created tradition.
If the word of God is already in the world, then you must except the evil is stronger than God, for self evidently evil has not been conquered by any faith? Yet this new and it is very new, interpretation offers the means to do just that, for progress far beyond any political potential. What honest man would prefere the staus quo to such a great possibility? Only one who cannot face the fact that his own faith is no more than a theological illusion. The product of a human created tradition.
The Final Freedoms
goliah:-6
I don't very often, and it may surprise raven, but I agree with her. I've heard it all before.
As far as to whether or not God has acted in this world, you are entitled to your opinion. However, I disagree with your statements.
When the scholarly circles tell me that there is something new and should be considered then I probably would take a look at it. However, if I or anyone else were to respond to everything that claims to be "NEW" I would never get anything else done.
That being said, if you wish to look at it go for it and report some of the ideas that it presents.
The "DaVinci Code" is for the most part fiction and when it purports to refer to history it is generally out to lunch. I have seen and heard enough about this book to realize that I have no real interest in reading it. Any good book that critiques it is all one needs.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I don't very often, and it may surprise raven, but I agree with her. I've heard it all before.
As far as to whether or not God has acted in this world, you are entitled to your opinion. However, I disagree with your statements.
When the scholarly circles tell me that there is something new and should be considered then I probably would take a look at it. However, if I or anyone else were to respond to everything that claims to be "NEW" I would never get anything else done.
That being said, if you wish to look at it go for it and report some of the ideas that it presents.
The "DaVinci Code" is for the most part fiction and when it purports to refer to history it is generally out to lunch. I have seen and heard enough about this book to realize that I have no real interest in reading it. Any good book that critiques it is all one needs.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Final Freedoms
goliah:-6 :-6
BTW welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy your time here as much as I have.
Shalom
Ted:-6
BTW welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy your time here as much as I have.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Final Freedoms
Unlike others who so lightly dismiss this. I have downloaded and read through and studied the material which is meant to be the subject of this discusion. Both my wife and I are convinced by it and we have started this new path. The great advantage is that we now have a teaching that we can test for ourselves, the efficacy of this truth claim, we don't have to listen to the opinions of tradition, learned or otherwise.
For those who think they have 'heard' it all before, fine. Obviously your not going to be among those who confirm this new teaching. It requires the courage of a critical, even painful honesty with ones self that appears self-evidently missing.
I'm not speaking from either ignorance or prejudice. My academic background makes me particuarly well informed of religious issues and history. But nothing prepared me for something this profound. The goalsposts of history have been moved. You may not like. You may not believe it...yet. But I predict that this revelation is going to effect every human being on the face of this planet sooner or later. With stakes this high, I much prefere to be among the sooners.
For those who think they have 'heard' it all before, fine. Obviously your not going to be among those who confirm this new teaching. It requires the courage of a critical, even painful honesty with ones self that appears self-evidently missing.
I'm not speaking from either ignorance or prejudice. My academic background makes me particuarly well informed of religious issues and history. But nothing prepared me for something this profound. The goalsposts of history have been moved. You may not like. You may not believe it...yet. But I predict that this revelation is going to effect every human being on the face of this planet sooner or later. With stakes this high, I much prefere to be among the sooners.
The Final Freedoms
Right or wrong, true or false. Either these moral and intellectual conceptions have value of they don't. Moral conceptions are best founded in Law and principle. The intellectual conception of truth is still being developed, even if science has provided a much more secure hold of the nature of reality than anything which has come before it.
That is what makes The Final Freedomns so unique to religious history. All 'faith' which exist today within any monotheistic faith is not in God but in the very human theological interpretations which make up the dogma and doctrines of tradition. One may wish to believe that their worship is of that untimate reality, but in fact it is a 'worship' of the pretentions of human reason.
The Final Freedoms offer a path of faith that leads directly to a demonstration of the power and wisdom of God. To knowledge of the divine nature. In this sense it is a 'Gnostic' teaching, but as this new teaching required material from all scriptural resources to write. amazing in itself, but something the Gnostics of known history did not have, so they could not have taught this new moral Law.
This is change the world stuff. And who ever wrote this teaching has understanding far beyond that of any mortal man. Draw your own conclusion?
That is what makes The Final Freedomns so unique to religious history. All 'faith' which exist today within any monotheistic faith is not in God but in the very human theological interpretations which make up the dogma and doctrines of tradition. One may wish to believe that their worship is of that untimate reality, but in fact it is a 'worship' of the pretentions of human reason.
The Final Freedoms offer a path of faith that leads directly to a demonstration of the power and wisdom of God. To knowledge of the divine nature. In this sense it is a 'Gnostic' teaching, but as this new teaching required material from all scriptural resources to write. amazing in itself, but something the Gnostics of known history did not have, so they could not have taught this new moral Law.
This is change the world stuff. And who ever wrote this teaching has understanding far beyond that of any mortal man. Draw your own conclusion?
The Final Freedoms
This is change the world stuff. And who ever wrote this teaching has understanding far beyond that of any mortal man. Draw your own conclusion?
So you're saying God wrote this book?
Or aliens?
So you're saying God wrote this book?
Or aliens?~Quoth the Raven, Nevermore!~
The Final Freedoms
You guys may be interested in visiting this forum....some very 'in depth' discussions go on here.
http://uk.msnusers.com/AGFMessageBoard
http://uk.msnusers.com/AGFMessageBoard
A smile is a window on your face to show your heart is home
The Final Freedoms
No, but I am saying that no moral man could write a proof of the living God, now that such a living and testable proof exists, [it is a test of faith and love that God has set before all men and women] God must have revealed that knowledge to someone, to then reveal it to the world. If that is the case, then you have a second coming, but not in the form that anyone expected.
While all montheism 'expects' an event to confirm their own conception of divine truth and will, it may just be that this 'event' is going to deny everything that exists as a human self deception. So be it!
While all montheism 'expects' an event to confirm their own conception of divine truth and will, it may just be that this 'event' is going to deny everything that exists as a human self deception. So be it!
The Final Freedoms
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
Proverbs 14:12
d:-5
Proverbs 14:12
d:-5
The Final Freedoms
I agree completely with the last post. But all theological traditions must be the 'ways' of men. This new revelation is the only 'way' that can demonstrate it is from God. So the choice is the theologies of men, obviously the wide road, and the 'way' of God. And it is very narrow.
You'll pardon me if I can't 'throw' scripture around like others do, but if God intended to make the 'wisdom of the world look foolish' an event that has yet to happen, this new teaching will accomplish that without difficulty.
Even more intriguing is that the download is perfectly typeset for paper publication and it this does come out in paper form at some point, the %*&@ is really going to hit the fan.
You'll pardon me if I can't 'throw' scripture around like others do, but if God intended to make the 'wisdom of the world look foolish' an event that has yet to happen, this new teaching will accomplish that without difficulty.
Even more intriguing is that the download is perfectly typeset for paper publication and it this does come out in paper form at some point, the %*&@ is really going to hit the fan.
The Final Freedoms
Anyone who thinks they have the ultimate answer or solution is living in a delusion. How many times have I heard it before with reference to many topics. There is always someone who pushes his or her agenda and claims the ultimate. They are all charlatans or delusional.
As for not listening to the wisdom of the past or the words of the great thinkers of the world; that's too bad.
A Christian pluralist.
Shalom
Ted:-6
As for not listening to the wisdom of the past or the words of the great thinkers of the world; that's too bad.
A Christian pluralist.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Final Freedoms
This may be of interest. Since the opening of the Davinci Code movie, the site stats at one of the download sites for The Final Freedoms have jumped by almost a million hits just since the 19th May.
While DaVinci as a whole is an interesting fiction, it's understandable why the Christian tradition, particularly the roman church, hates it so much. It brings up the most murky subject of origins? One can thank Dan Brown for bringing up the subject of the Council of Nicaea AD 325. Whether one reads a spin from christian apologists or a more critical, secular historical account, one thing is without question. This council would not have needed to happen, had any certain teaching or revelation been passed on by Christ or his Apostles, for the purpose of founding an institutional church! All is theology.
While DaVinci as a whole is an interesting fiction, it's understandable why the Christian tradition, particularly the roman church, hates it so much. It brings up the most murky subject of origins? One can thank Dan Brown for bringing up the subject of the Council of Nicaea AD 325. Whether one reads a spin from christian apologists or a more critical, secular historical account, one thing is without question. This council would not have needed to happen, had any certain teaching or revelation been passed on by Christ or his Apostles, for the purpose of founding an institutional church! All is theology.
The Final Freedoms
goliah:-6
Many of the so called historical facts to be found in the DaVinci Code are in fact errors in reading the history. He is simply wrong on most of them. All one has to do is check the historical record. B Ehrman "Fact and Fiction in the DaVinci Code". This view is well supported by other scholars as well.
Now one might be tempted to claim a cover up conspiracy. If that is what people think then let them go for it.
The book is a work of fiction. Whether it is a great work will be decided by history. Those who have little to no idea about the field of history will simply accept as being historically accurate the nonsense that Brown has written.
As far as some of the churches protesting the book and/or the film goes, they are simply attracting more folks to the screening of this work of fiction and encouraging beliefs in ignorance. That is rather a silly approach.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Many of the so called historical facts to be found in the DaVinci Code are in fact errors in reading the history. He is simply wrong on most of them. All one has to do is check the historical record. B Ehrman "Fact and Fiction in the DaVinci Code". This view is well supported by other scholars as well.
Now one might be tempted to claim a cover up conspiracy. If that is what people think then let them go for it.
The book is a work of fiction. Whether it is a great work will be decided by history. Those who have little to no idea about the field of history will simply accept as being historically accurate the nonsense that Brown has written.
As far as some of the churches protesting the book and/or the film goes, they are simply attracting more folks to the screening of this work of fiction and encouraging beliefs in ignorance. That is rather a silly approach.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Final Freedoms
As I said in my last post, I don't regard the DaVinci code as anything other than the purest fiction. [and not the best of fiction either]. But the few facts it does weave into its plot line are significant. The number of people looking for answers to problems that are self evidently beyond the potential of any political process or existing conception are great, myself among them. And if the only path to peace for this planet is over the body of mono-theistic traditions, which out of intellectual vanity and spiritual pretentions, deceived the whole of humanity on the nature of mans relationship with his creator, that price is indeed just.
The Final Freedoms
goliah:-6
Perhaps you would post some of those facts that remain unanswered.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Perhaps you would post some of those facts that remain unanswered.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Final Freedoms
Ted
I would be pleased to but I am not allowed to post URLs until I have posted fifteen times first. Those are the rules and I was automatically stopped when I tried at the beginning of this forum. But your point is well taken. I'm sitting at my desk reading what the whole of history has said is impossible, but now has become possible, while others responding to this discussion cannot check it out for themselves. If you or anyone wish to send me a private message or Email me [my address is available] I'll send the links. And as soon as I pass the magic number 15, I'll post a couple in this discussion.
goliah
I would be pleased to but I am not allowed to post URLs until I have posted fifteen times first. Those are the rules and I was automatically stopped when I tried at the beginning of this forum. But your point is well taken. I'm sitting at my desk reading what the whole of history has said is impossible, but now has become possible, while others responding to this discussion cannot check it out for themselves. If you or anyone wish to send me a private message or Email me [my address is available] I'll send the links. And as soon as I pass the magic number 15, I'll post a couple in this discussion.
goliah
The Final Freedoms
goliah:-6
Rather then trying to post a URL even listing a few of the questions will help.
I am visually impaired and getting worse and reading is becoming more difficult even though I have several reading aids.
If you wish to send me a URL please feel free to do so under the private message section. I can't see that it should be prohibited as it is a private, to me only, message.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Rather then trying to post a URL even listing a few of the questions will help.
I am visually impaired and getting worse and reading is becoming more difficult even though I have several reading aids.
If you wish to send me a URL please feel free to do so under the private message section. I can't see that it should be prohibited as it is a private, to me only, message.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Final Freedoms
goliah:-6
Also, if you click on my name you will find my e-mail address.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Also, if you click on my name you will find my e-mail address.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Final Freedoms
Ted
I've have sent a couple download links by private message to you. As for questions, If you do the asking I'll try to answer according to The Final Freedoms manuscript that I've been studying. You may do this as part of the forum or privately as you wish.
Even if you don't download the manuscript, at one of the sites, I would suggest you go to the Chapter titles link and print out the page. That should give you some good ideas, and in larger text as well, of what is included and will provide some basis for questions.
goliah
I've have sent a couple download links by private message to you. As for questions, If you do the asking I'll try to answer according to The Final Freedoms manuscript that I've been studying. You may do this as part of the forum or privately as you wish.
Even if you don't download the manuscript, at one of the sites, I would suggest you go to the Chapter titles link and print out the page. That should give you some good ideas, and in larger text as well, of what is included and will provide some basis for questions.
goliah
The Final Freedoms
goliah:-6
Thanks for the URLs. I have read the prologue and will go some further but I have a few comments to make based on what I have seen.
The author is correct in what he has seen as far as man's (women's) wish to live in a much better world. I have no problems with that at all.
The major thrusts of world's great religions, that is their basic tenets have all been based on the "golden rule" and "respect" for all life.
Then I get to the section where he zero's in on the Christian faith and what I see is a writer who has no concept of what that faith has desired and worked for. Of course there have been problems. To suggest that the great thinkers of the past were simply deceivers and manipulators is to do a great disservice to all mankind both past and present. Not all of these folks, in fact very few of them were "evil" people. We are all imperfect and human. We do make mistakes. Some of us desire power and hold unto greed, greatly so. Power and greed are part of the human condition on the part of some people though not all.
The author of this paper has seen fit to denigrate all of the wisdom of the past and all of the great men in history. As such he has besmerched all human life to date. He is welcome to his thinking and he has every right to think what he likes but he has no right to put down myself or anyone else. That is what he has done in trying to push his/her agenda.
As I have said before, anyone who thinks he has the ultimate answer is living in a delusion and the writer of this paper is no different.
Peace begins in the heart of the individual. If a person does not have peace with himself he cannot create peace around him/her. Until we have learned how to reach the hearts of the individual; until we have managed to change that part of human life that is self serving; until we are able to convince all people that life can and will be better; until we can prevent national greed and misuse of the resources that we have all of the teachings in the world will amount to nothing. Until we can stop people from being human there will always be problems in the world.
If anyone wished to follow this as gospel then they should proceed. Personally I shall not tie myself into his/her agenda. I believe he/she is wrong. It is another case of everyone is out of step but me.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Thanks for the URLs. I have read the prologue and will go some further but I have a few comments to make based on what I have seen.
The author is correct in what he has seen as far as man's (women's) wish to live in a much better world. I have no problems with that at all.
The major thrusts of world's great religions, that is their basic tenets have all been based on the "golden rule" and "respect" for all life.
Then I get to the section where he zero's in on the Christian faith and what I see is a writer who has no concept of what that faith has desired and worked for. Of course there have been problems. To suggest that the great thinkers of the past were simply deceivers and manipulators is to do a great disservice to all mankind both past and present. Not all of these folks, in fact very few of them were "evil" people. We are all imperfect and human. We do make mistakes. Some of us desire power and hold unto greed, greatly so. Power and greed are part of the human condition on the part of some people though not all.
The author of this paper has seen fit to denigrate all of the wisdom of the past and all of the great men in history. As such he has besmerched all human life to date. He is welcome to his thinking and he has every right to think what he likes but he has no right to put down myself or anyone else. That is what he has done in trying to push his/her agenda.
As I have said before, anyone who thinks he has the ultimate answer is living in a delusion and the writer of this paper is no different.
Peace begins in the heart of the individual. If a person does not have peace with himself he cannot create peace around him/her. Until we have learned how to reach the hearts of the individual; until we have managed to change that part of human life that is self serving; until we are able to convince all people that life can and will be better; until we can prevent national greed and misuse of the resources that we have all of the teachings in the world will amount to nothing. Until we can stop people from being human there will always be problems in the world.
If anyone wished to follow this as gospel then they should proceed. Personally I shall not tie myself into his/her agenda. I believe he/she is wrong. It is another case of everyone is out of step but me.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Final Freedoms
My first thought that comes to mind is that famous quote: the path to hell is paved with good intentions'. The first chapter appropriately is entitled The Fall. This is a 'judgement' on human nature itself. However or whatever we may be or believe about ourselves to be, from with in our own cultural construction, we remain separated from our Creator by a corruption of body, mind and spirit, the punishment for man's original disobedience.
So the first hurdle of this teaching, I would suggest, is understanding and accepting that human kind have been fixed and limited by our very own human nature. And to resolve so many pressing problems facing the modern world, to be truely moral in the sight of God will require the means to transcend those limitations. The means which that God has now provided. [if this teaching is indeed true?]
In my first post, I mentioned that the proof of this teaching was a direct intervention into the natural world to correct this corruption. So a whole new pardigm of ethical thought and moral conduct remains to be realized. Necessary for the PEACE on earth that men can only dream of.
So the first hurdle of this teaching, I would suggest, is understanding and accepting that human kind have been fixed and limited by our very own human nature. And to resolve so many pressing problems facing the modern world, to be truely moral in the sight of God will require the means to transcend those limitations. The means which that God has now provided. [if this teaching is indeed true?]
In my first post, I mentioned that the proof of this teaching was a direct intervention into the natural world to correct this corruption. So a whole new pardigm of ethical thought and moral conduct remains to be realized. Necessary for the PEACE on earth that men can only dream of.
The Final Freedoms
goliah:-6
I do not subscribe to the original sin theory whatsoever. I do not believe for one moment that we are all corrupt in mind body and spirit. Man is born with the ability to go either way; to seek out and perpetrate evil or to seek our and push for the good of all mankind. And in our lives there are many factors beyond our control that affect how we behave: psychological, social, education or lack thereof, culture, history, geography, the behaviour-good or bad-- etc.
We are all children of God. Each of us no doubt has committed errors in our lives. That is indeed part of human nature. However, the creator, or God if you wish, created us with all of our good and all of our pock marks and failings. God has accepted us now it is time to realize that if God has accepted us we had better get on with accepting ourselves with all of our failings, acknowledge then, make amends where necessary and get on with life.
Whether or not the Divine intervenes in life in any major way is up for debate. I accept that there may be small interventions in an individual or limited way, without question. However we were given free will from the beginning and if God interferes with that free will then in fact we do not have free will. S/he cannot, and will not mess with man's free will or we become nothing more then automitons.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I do not subscribe to the original sin theory whatsoever. I do not believe for one moment that we are all corrupt in mind body and spirit. Man is born with the ability to go either way; to seek out and perpetrate evil or to seek our and push for the good of all mankind. And in our lives there are many factors beyond our control that affect how we behave: psychological, social, education or lack thereof, culture, history, geography, the behaviour-good or bad-- etc.
We are all children of God. Each of us no doubt has committed errors in our lives. That is indeed part of human nature. However, the creator, or God if you wish, created us with all of our good and all of our pock marks and failings. God has accepted us now it is time to realize that if God has accepted us we had better get on with accepting ourselves with all of our failings, acknowledge then, make amends where necessary and get on with life.
Whether or not the Divine intervenes in life in any major way is up for debate. I accept that there may be small interventions in an individual or limited way, without question. However we were given free will from the beginning and if God interferes with that free will then in fact we do not have free will. S/he cannot, and will not mess with man's free will or we become nothing more then automitons.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Final Freedoms
goliah:-6
I have skimmed through parts of the book.
The first thing I notice is that the authore has not even had the courage of his convictions to identify himself. That is indeed a "turn off".
He apparently has no knowledge of how the Bible came to be.
He does not understand the nature of the writing style of ancient sacred scriptures. Then he lists in his "bibliography"?? ancient sources that he can in no way interpret with any degree of authority. This is a joke.
We read that "judgment does not come through a Jew". Then s/he writes that this is a new Christian revelation. Give me a break.
He talks of charlatans. He is the biggest of all IMO. If you cfhoose to push his/her agenda go for it but don't expect to many to follow.
Who is the author?? What are his credentials? What are his skills and studies?
Sorry but this author is in my opinion out to lunch.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I have skimmed through parts of the book.
The first thing I notice is that the authore has not even had the courage of his convictions to identify himself. That is indeed a "turn off".
He apparently has no knowledge of how the Bible came to be.
He does not understand the nature of the writing style of ancient sacred scriptures. Then he lists in his "bibliography"?? ancient sources that he can in no way interpret with any degree of authority. This is a joke.
We read that "judgment does not come through a Jew". Then s/he writes that this is a new Christian revelation. Give me a break.
He talks of charlatans. He is the biggest of all IMO. If you cfhoose to push his/her agenda go for it but don't expect to many to follow.
Who is the author?? What are his credentials? What are his skills and studies?
Sorry but this author is in my opinion out to lunch.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Final Freedoms
They shoot the messenger don't they? No doubt when this material comes into open public debate which is inevitable, the author with appear as well. But by his absence now, the focus remains on the teaching itself. And that very much speaks for itself. You only need to read one chapter, 'Perfect Faith' to know that this is not of human intellectual origin and is a revelation in the most real sense. The singularity and clearity of this teaching makes two thousand years of theological truth claims and obscurantism look like so much HocuPocus.
Undoubtedy, no one holding to any existing theistic tradition is going to like a development that forces them to examine the origins of their own faith. Having been a catholic in my youth and then a lefty agnostic for all of my adult life, I didn't have the baggage of tradition to stop me examining this. And I'm glad I did.
Undoubtedy, no one holding to any existing theistic tradition is going to like a development that forces them to examine the origins of their own faith. Having been a catholic in my youth and then a lefty agnostic for all of my adult life, I didn't have the baggage of tradition to stop me examining this. And I'm glad I did.
The Final Freedoms
Religous tradition may in fact be mankinds worst enemy? Under the pretense that 'tradition' knows, and in an all too human gullibility, we have been lulled into not thinking and questioning enough for ourselves, swallowing a false conception of God that does nothing, and licence any self proclaimed 'priest' to continue his exploitation by offering any plausible illusion.
If as many like myself suspect, it has all been founded upon intellectual error and spiritual pride, it is then equally capable of perpetuating prejudice and ignorance from one generation to another as furthering any claims to truth, peace, virtue or wisdom. Even before Gutenberg broke the monkish monopoly on reading scripture, the results of a 'religious' presence within history and culture have been divisive and destructive. And they such continue so today.
So by having the first testable religious claim in history, one in which the reality of God reveals himself and confirms it with a demonstration of power, in a direct intervention into the natural world, this new teaching is going to blow that status quo right out of the water!
If as many like myself suspect, it has all been founded upon intellectual error and spiritual pride, it is then equally capable of perpetuating prejudice and ignorance from one generation to another as furthering any claims to truth, peace, virtue or wisdom. Even before Gutenberg broke the monkish monopoly on reading scripture, the results of a 'religious' presence within history and culture have been divisive and destructive. And they such continue so today.
So by having the first testable religious claim in history, one in which the reality of God reveals himself and confirms it with a demonstration of power, in a direct intervention into the natural world, this new teaching is going to blow that status quo right out of the water!
The Final Freedoms
My first post. I don't know if this is the place for this. I may be off topic. Final Freedoms caught my interest because we are certainly experiencing them. It is quite obvious to those of us who have been given the truth of "who they are in the Whitehouse and the Congress of the United States and the rest of the governments of the world" what the DaVinci Code is. some more of the False Prophet.
Some one mentioned "aliens" . The one thing Washington doesn't. From the beginning, in the garden and the apple, the conspiracy has been present on this earth from those who have fallen, "not to this earth" but from their habitat in heaven. Mystery Babylon is no mystery when the name of GOD can be removed from government, by the government itself.
The mystery to Babylon is no mystery when a President can lie and a Christian America can re-elect him. Like I say this may not be the proper place for my thread, but quite obvious to me and those like me...the DaVinci Code is the final thrust for the "Minions of those who have fallen from their habitat" to impose upon mankind the Global Government needed to "wage war" against the GOD of Creation".
Like John of Patamos says in his revelations and the " and the dragon gave him his power and his seat and great authority. Sept 11th 2001. The day Washington made official " we the people " do indeed NO LONGER have anything to say about our freedoms. Dinah rae
Some one mentioned "aliens" . The one thing Washington doesn't. From the beginning, in the garden and the apple, the conspiracy has been present on this earth from those who have fallen, "not to this earth" but from their habitat in heaven. Mystery Babylon is no mystery when the name of GOD can be removed from government, by the government itself.
The mystery to Babylon is no mystery when a President can lie and a Christian America can re-elect him. Like I say this may not be the proper place for my thread, but quite obvious to me and those like me...the DaVinci Code is the final thrust for the "Minions of those who have fallen from their habitat" to impose upon mankind the Global Government needed to "wage war" against the GOD of Creation".
Like John of Patamos says in his revelations and the " and the dragon gave him his power and his seat and great authority. Sept 11th 2001. The day Washington made official " we the people " do indeed NO LONGER have anything to say about our freedoms. Dinah rae
The Final Freedoms
And who is Washington?
The name of GOD was inserted into government during the last century, by the government itself. It was very carefully excluded by the Founding Fathers, but it's crawled in apace ever since. It's insidious.
So, the conspiracists are Lucifer's comrades-in-arms, are they? Milton should be proud that his influence has spread so far.
America is, thank Christ, not Christian.
I have lived a Christian and I shall die one, but I shudder at what incomprehensible freakery the Name of Jesus encompasses these days.
Hear me swear an oath before the Lord. If one comes to me asking after the Spirit I shall lead her to the Buddhists' door and invite her to enter. If one comes to me asking after the World I shall lead her to the Hindus' door and invite her to enter. If one comes to me asking of God I shall lead her to the door of Islam and invite her to enter. But if any point to the door of Christianity and ask what lies within I shall reply dissention and murder and wickedness and perversion and worst of all, an utter unquestioning conviction of being uniquely right. I shall not lead anyone to that door. The cost of entry is too great both for those within and for those without.
The name of GOD was inserted into government during the last century, by the government itself. It was very carefully excluded by the Founding Fathers, but it's crawled in apace ever since. It's insidious.
So, the conspiracists are Lucifer's comrades-in-arms, are they? Milton should be proud that his influence has spread so far.
America is, thank Christ, not Christian.
I have lived a Christian and I shall die one, but I shudder at what incomprehensible freakery the Name of Jesus encompasses these days.
Hear me swear an oath before the Lord. If one comes to me asking after the Spirit I shall lead her to the Buddhists' door and invite her to enter. If one comes to me asking after the World I shall lead her to the Hindus' door and invite her to enter. If one comes to me asking of God I shall lead her to the door of Islam and invite her to enter. But if any point to the door of Christianity and ask what lies within I shall reply dissention and murder and wickedness and perversion and worst of all, an utter unquestioning conviction of being uniquely right. I shall not lead anyone to that door. The cost of entry is too great both for those within and for those without.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The Final Freedoms
The previous two posts well explain the confusion of religion. Every idea of what is 'spiritual' or what is 'Chrisitian' or what is moral has been defined by ourselves from within the cultural understanding of what these things mean. Culture, like theology is a human construct, so therefore is our understanding of the Divine.
The very fact and very big contradiction of three competing montheistic traditions, all which deny the ligitimacy of each other [but less often in public for that would be unPC], is one big problem, the fact the there are many thousand 'Christian' denominations all who take the same book and draw different meaning and conclusions, not to mention the more bizzare examples of 'christian' fundementalism and creationist ideas, like Jim Jones, Solar Temple. Even a 'christian' theme park planned for Las Vegas? History is awash with the most sincere 'religious' absurdities. And here I'm being polite.
With more than two hundred references to falseteaching, false witness, lying interpreters, and anit-christs and of course the 'arch deceiver' unexposed and obviously still at large, who can be right if no one is wrong? What is there to distinguish any of them from each other except the material facade of tradition. All are theology. God has not confirmed any of them?
What we call 'christianity' surely holds the record for its continuous disagreements, divisions, schism and just plain kitch.
The very fact and very big contradiction of three competing montheistic traditions, all which deny the ligitimacy of each other [but less often in public for that would be unPC], is one big problem, the fact the there are many thousand 'Christian' denominations all who take the same book and draw different meaning and conclusions, not to mention the more bizzare examples of 'christian' fundementalism and creationist ideas, like Jim Jones, Solar Temple. Even a 'christian' theme park planned for Las Vegas? History is awash with the most sincere 'religious' absurdities. And here I'm being polite.
With more than two hundred references to falseteaching, false witness, lying interpreters, and anit-christs and of course the 'arch deceiver' unexposed and obviously still at large, who can be right if no one is wrong? What is there to distinguish any of them from each other except the material facade of tradition. All are theology. God has not confirmed any of them?
What we call 'christianity' surely holds the record for its continuous disagreements, divisions, schism and just plain kitch.
The Final Freedoms
I agree very much with that. The Fallen are the master magicians of religions, the inventors of it. The conspirators. Jesus Christ Confronted them in the Temple when they were trying to convince Him , Abraham was their father. Although they decended from Abraham, they did not do the works of Abraham.
John 8-44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. and when he speaketh a lie, he speaketh his own for he is liar and the father of it..
If the conspiracy was of a human origin....it would have been uncovered before Christ came down from the cross.
And Jesus said it was for this generation his father had sent him;; He likened them unto a den of vipers.
The Apostle Paul also speaks of the false religions, the great apostasy, then shall the end come.
John 8-44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. and when he speaketh a lie, he speaketh his own for he is liar and the father of it..
If the conspiracy was of a human origin....it would have been uncovered before Christ came down from the cross.
And Jesus said it was for this generation his father had sent him;; He likened them unto a den of vipers.
The Apostle Paul also speaks of the false religions, the great apostasy, then shall the end come.
The Final Freedoms
Dianah:-6
Welcome.
Shalom
Ted
Welcome.
Shalom
Ted
The Final Freedoms
goliah:-6
"sigh"
Shalom
Ted:-6
"sigh"
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Final Freedoms
With so many unresolved conundrums facing mankind, so briefly into a new millennium and with any hope for the century giving way to foreboding: of a clash of civilisations, fears for the environment, of natural disasters and pandemics, I would suggest that what happened two thousand years ago failed and was lost and is now starting all over again for the 'last' time. To offer mankind a way to progress with a new direction in moral and spiritual development founded upon understanding not of mans own intellectual making. Even if that means shaking history to its roots, which this teaching may very well do!
The Final Freedoms
Pinky
The Bible is just a group of scriptural material from a much greater collection. Some only discovered this century, like the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library of Gnostic Gospels. But who ever wrote The Final Freedoms has made the Bible look exactly what is it, a small collection called 'canonical' and convenient only to those early institutional forms of religion to support their own religious claims and illusions. By using elements from all scriptural resources, he demonstrates that the word [or Promise] of God is not described or contained in the Bible at all. Its about time others checked put this material for themselves. I don't have all the answers. I can only say that my wife and I have started this new path, to discover for ourselves what is true and what is not.
As this is my sixteenth post, here are a couple links. Download it, read it and judge for yourselves. No one can stop you except yourselves. I would suggest printing out the manuscript chapter by chapter. It's much easier to read and study. I'm sure I've already said enough for a while, but if anyone want to get back to me with a private message fine.
Cheers: goliah
www.energon.uklinux.net
or
http://thefinalfreedoms.bulldoghome.com
The Bible is just a group of scriptural material from a much greater collection. Some only discovered this century, like the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi Library of Gnostic Gospels. But who ever wrote The Final Freedoms has made the Bible look exactly what is it, a small collection called 'canonical' and convenient only to those early institutional forms of religion to support their own religious claims and illusions. By using elements from all scriptural resources, he demonstrates that the word [or Promise] of God is not described or contained in the Bible at all. Its about time others checked put this material for themselves. I don't have all the answers. I can only say that my wife and I have started this new path, to discover for ourselves what is true and what is not.
As this is my sixteenth post, here are a couple links. Download it, read it and judge for yourselves. No one can stop you except yourselves. I would suggest printing out the manuscript chapter by chapter. It's much easier to read and study. I'm sure I've already said enough for a while, but if anyone want to get back to me with a private message fine.
Cheers: goliah
www.energon.uklinux.net
or
http://thefinalfreedoms.bulldoghome.com
The Final Freedoms
Pinky has asked me if the Bible isn't a con job. Impossible to argue with Secularists. Like arguing religions. Christ didn't leave a church or a religion upon his resurection, HE is the CHURCH and HE is the RELGION and no man cometh to the father except through HIM.
The Final Freedoms
Dinah rae wrote: Pinky has asked me if the Bible isn't a con job. Impossible to argue with Secularists. Like arguing religions. Christ didn't leave a church or a religion upon his resurection, HE is the CHURCH and HE is the RELGION and no man cometh to the father except through HIM.Hi Andrea,
Could you please start a relevant thread and leave this one to the discussion of Final Freedoms? I did suggest this in a PM but you're still posting here.
Could you please start a relevant thread and leave this one to the discussion of Final Freedoms? I did suggest this in a PM but you're still posting here.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
The Final Freedoms
sorry
The Final Freedoms
Opinions, opposition, skepticism, can be particuarly useful in breaking any intellectual log jam. But the Final Freedoms is something quite different. That is why it is important to be informed about this material by reading it and not just responding to the opening post or even to the web site links which are themselves rather contentious. And for the benefit of others who are trying to develope this discussion on subject, keeping the threats pointing to questions about the material is necessary. No offence was intended I'm sure.
The Final Freedoms
goliah wrote: But what might very well bring the church down is circulating on the web.
What will keep the church up is circulating through people's hearts. Much more powerful.
The first wholly new interpretation for 2000 years of the moral teachings of Jesus the Christ,
So for 2000 years we didn't get it, but this guy has just "seen the light?"
For if this material is confirmed, and there appears to be both the means and a concerted effort to authenticate it,
I love this part, some "Anonymous" guy re-interprets the Bible and everyone wants to "confirm" it. That is an imossible task and not just because the guy doesn't want anyone to know who he is. It's impssible to confirm the hereafter...without dying. You can only guess until then.
Or you can have faith.
the greatest unresolved questions of human existence may finally have been untangled.
Meglomanical delusions of gradeur.
it describes and teaches a single moral LAW, a single moral principle and offers its own proof;
Yeah, I know this law..."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
one in which the reality of God responds to an act of perfect faith with a direct, individual intervention into the natural world;
Be good, see God.
making a correction to human nature by a change in natural law,
You'll be a perfect person, able to defy gravity and walk on water.
altering biology,
Huh? I like my biology just like I am. What? You grow gills or something? This is too weird.
consciousness,
You see ghosts? Other dimensions?
this new interpretation reveals the moral foundation of all human thought and conduct
I could've sworn that Jesus revealed all of that already. Shows what I know.
the marriage [Hieros gamos] between one man and one woman.
There goes homosexual marriage right out the window.
offers possibilities for peace, health, healing and cultural development political process has yet to dream of.
This new "religion" for want of a better word, will actually convince radical Islamic terrorist to change their ways? Or even convert greedy corporate American businessmen to think of the greater good of humanity instead of their profit margins? (That was for you Spot!)
Must be some heavy stuff indeed.
This new teaching is pure ethics.
Whoops! You just lost the corporate execs! LOL!
It requires no institutional framework, no churches, no priest craft, no scholastic theological rational, costs nothing and ‘worship’ requires only conviction, faith and the necessary measure of self discipline to accomplish a new moral imperative.
Heck, I do that already. I love God and worship Jesus everyday I can in every way I can think of, but I don't go to church. I never liked the formal routines and I like to sleep in on Sundays.
As the first ever religious teaching... that meets... testable scientific method.
Religion is mankind's attempt to answer and explain the unexplainable. We already know most of how the Universe was created, we just don't know the "why?"
Since, like I said, that is a mystery that can't be solved in this life, how could any "reliogios" teaching know that answer? Unless, of course, it's just false and made up by some unkown guy on the internet.
This is all unconvincing and preposterous. As someone who has died and knows for a fact that there is another "side" to reality, I'll stick to my faith, if you don't mind.
Oh...and Pinky, not to shut anyone down, but Spot is right, staying on topic isn't the rule, but it is considered "good netiquette." There are places where people go off topic constantly...
they call them "chat rooms."
What will keep the church up is circulating through people's hearts. Much more powerful.
The first wholly new interpretation for 2000 years of the moral teachings of Jesus the Christ,
So for 2000 years we didn't get it, but this guy has just "seen the light?"
For if this material is confirmed, and there appears to be both the means and a concerted effort to authenticate it,
I love this part, some "Anonymous" guy re-interprets the Bible and everyone wants to "confirm" it. That is an imossible task and not just because the guy doesn't want anyone to know who he is. It's impssible to confirm the hereafter...without dying. You can only guess until then.
Or you can have faith.
the greatest unresolved questions of human existence may finally have been untangled.
Meglomanical delusions of gradeur.
it describes and teaches a single moral LAW, a single moral principle and offers its own proof;
Yeah, I know this law..."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
one in which the reality of God responds to an act of perfect faith with a direct, individual intervention into the natural world;
Be good, see God.
making a correction to human nature by a change in natural law,
You'll be a perfect person, able to defy gravity and walk on water.
altering biology,
Huh? I like my biology just like I am. What? You grow gills or something? This is too weird.
consciousness,
You see ghosts? Other dimensions?
this new interpretation reveals the moral foundation of all human thought and conduct
I could've sworn that Jesus revealed all of that already. Shows what I know.
the marriage [Hieros gamos] between one man and one woman.
There goes homosexual marriage right out the window.
offers possibilities for peace, health, healing and cultural development political process has yet to dream of.
This new "religion" for want of a better word, will actually convince radical Islamic terrorist to change their ways? Or even convert greedy corporate American businessmen to think of the greater good of humanity instead of their profit margins? (That was for you Spot!)
Must be some heavy stuff indeed.
This new teaching is pure ethics.
Whoops! You just lost the corporate execs! LOL!
It requires no institutional framework, no churches, no priest craft, no scholastic theological rational, costs nothing and ‘worship’ requires only conviction, faith and the necessary measure of self discipline to accomplish a new moral imperative.
Heck, I do that already. I love God and worship Jesus everyday I can in every way I can think of, but I don't go to church. I never liked the formal routines and I like to sleep in on Sundays.
As the first ever religious teaching... that meets... testable scientific method.
Religion is mankind's attempt to answer and explain the unexplainable. We already know most of how the Universe was created, we just don't know the "why?"
Since, like I said, that is a mystery that can't be solved in this life, how could any "reliogios" teaching know that answer? Unless, of course, it's just false and made up by some unkown guy on the internet.
This is all unconvincing and preposterous. As someone who has died and knows for a fact that there is another "side" to reality, I'll stick to my faith, if you don't mind.
Oh...and Pinky, not to shut anyone down, but Spot is right, staying on topic isn't the rule, but it is considered "good netiquette." There are places where people go off topic constantly...
they call them "chat rooms."
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
The Final Freedoms
Jives:-6
Wonderful post. Right on.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Wonderful post. Right on.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Final Freedoms
'Confronting ignorance and self deception with truth is never easy; as Galileo among many others knew too well. For man seems more concerned with erecting and protecting the view of himself he wants to believe then accepting what is true, especially when truth threatens cheerished ideas and what ever image of himself he may have become accustomed to. That is how individuals and their institutions debase the very ideals and principles they were once expected or thought to represent.' [from an essay: Illusion of Reason by R.A. Landbeck 1994]
This Final Freedoms is predicated on the whole of monotheistic history being a human, theological self deception.
''If one is unabe to perceive or empathize with such knowledge and is unwilling, without the courage to put it to the test, that is only the measure, within the mind, of one predjudices and distance from it. With reason thus conditioned, the mind is imprisoned by the invisible bars of its own debased reasoning, blinded by what one 'desires' to believe, deaf to the call of new insight and wisdom. Such self deception is what is often called folly.' [from an essay: Illusion of Reason by R.A. Landbeck 1994]
This Final Freedoms is predicated on the whole of monotheistic history being a human, theological self deception.
''If one is unabe to perceive or empathize with such knowledge and is unwilling, without the courage to put it to the test, that is only the measure, within the mind, of one predjudices and distance from it. With reason thus conditioned, the mind is imprisoned by the invisible bars of its own debased reasoning, blinded by what one 'desires' to believe, deaf to the call of new insight and wisdom. Such self deception is what is often called folly.' [from an essay: Illusion of Reason by R.A. Landbeck 1994]
The Final Freedoms
One thing is for sure the hot air and smoke is getting thick in her.
goliah:-6
You talk of everyone being self deceiving etc. Perhaps you should consider your own position.
Every one is out of step but you??? I don't think so.
The delusion is in thinking that anyone has the ultimate answer. That is the delusion.
To put it more bluntly it is pure BS.
Shalom
Ted:-6
goliah:-6
You talk of everyone being self deceiving etc. Perhaps you should consider your own position.
Every one is out of step but you??? I don't think so.
The delusion is in thinking that anyone has the ultimate answer. That is the delusion.
To put it more bluntly it is pure BS.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The Final Freedoms
Jives wrote: Oh...and Pinky, not to shut anyone down, but Spot is right, staying on topic isn't the rule, but it is considered "good netiquette." There are places where people go off topic constantly...
they call them "chat rooms."
Yeah....and it's never EVER, not one single time in the history of FG happened here. Nope....not ever, ever, ever. :yh_eyebro
they call them "chat rooms."
Yeah....and it's never EVER, not one single time in the history of FG happened here. Nope....not ever, ever, ever. :yh_eyebro
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.