Military Brutality and Murder = UK

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:55 pm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 68,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... nirq29.xml

http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/stor ... 61,00.html

odd that these have never been mentioned here on forumgarden, particularly with the rather large contingent of brits we have here.

too busy trying to convince us that the US is the source of all things wrong in the world i guess.

i've not watched the video. couldn't bring myself to. oh, i've seen videos of brutality, not least - and most disturbing - of which were beheadings committed by islamofascists. but it's too damned painful to watch brutality any more. maybe it's just a function of getting old.

Uncle Kram · Post by **Uncle Kram** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:57 pm

anastrophe wrote: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 68,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... nirq29.xml

http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/stor ... 61,00.html

odd that these have never been mentioned here on forumgarden, particularly with the rather large contingent of brits we have here.

too busy trying to convince us that the US is the source of all things wrong in the world i guess.

i've not watched the video. couldn't bring myself to. oh, i've seen videos of brutality, not least - and most disturbing - of which were beheadings committed by islamofascists. but it's too damned painful to watch brutality any more. maybe it's just a function of getting old.

No, it's a function of being human Anastrophe

Hugh Janus · Post by **Hugh Janus** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:20 pm

And I would like to thank the US for inviting the UK to the party. Tony Blair, sucking on a bush, whoa. Bad practice. :sneaky:

Now maybe you would like to have a look at the Israeli/Pallastinian thing?

Perhaps some instigation on the part of the US, would stop the pallastinian genocide being committed by the Israelis. Tanks against stones? C'mon.

Ooops, sorry, I forgot. Israel controls the US banks. Ah well. I guess it will not change then.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:21 pm

anastrophe wrote: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 68,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... nirq29.xml

http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/stor ... 61,00.html

odd that these have never been mentioned here on forumgarden, particularly with the rather large contingent of brits we have here.

too busy trying to convince us that the US is the source of all things wrong in the world i guess.

i've not watched the video. couldn't bring myself to. oh, i've seen videos of brutality, not least - and most disturbing - of which were beheadings committed by islamofascists. but it's too damned painful to watch brutality any more. maybe it's just a function of getting old.

This is absolutely shameful. I mean *this thread* - *and the other one*.

bigears · Post by **bigears** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:23 pm

anastrophe wrote: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 68,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... nirq29.xml

http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/stor ... 61,00.html

odd that these have never been mentioned here on forumgarden, particularly with the rather large contingent of brits we have here.

too busy trying to convince us that the US is the source of all things wrong in the world i guess.

i've not watched the video. couldn't bring myself to. oh, i've seen videos of brutality, not least - and most disturbing - of which were beheadings committed by islamofascists. but it's too damned painful to watch brutality any more. maybe it's just a function of getting old.

This seems like rather childish, spiteful post, anastrophe.

I think the vast majority of UK citizens were ashamed and embarrassed at these allegations. I certainly was. I can't tell you why they haven't been mentioned on this forum...they date back to before I joined.

I can't speak for the "large contingent" of Brits who look at this site but I dont have a problem with the US. I sometimes have a problem with US foreign policy and I certainly have a problem with the grinning ape that runs your country - hey, we've got one too - but its not a blanket dislike of the US. There's plenty I dislike about the UK too.

Could you just stop waving the flag for a bit and take a reality check? Thinking everyone hates you is ... well, a bit sad, really.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:25 pm

Hugh Janus wrote: And I would like to thank the US for inviting the UK to the party. :sneaky:

Now maybe you would like to have a look at the Israeli/Pallastinian thing?

Perhaps some instigation on the part of the US, would stop the pallastinian genocide being committed by the Israelis. Tanks against stones? C'mon.

Ooops, sorry, I forgot. Israel owns the US. Ah well. I guess it will not change then.

'tanks against stones'? i guess if you include surface to surface rockets, and high explosives strapped to suicide bomber's bodies within the class of objects referred to as "stones".

genocide? sorry, no. this latest attack on israel was unprovoked. the israelis pulled all their own settlers out of palestinian territory - by force - in exchange for "peace". so much for giving up land for peace.

i refer you to the same opinion piece i mentioned elsewhere - http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell071806.asp

these most recent attacks on israel were unprovoked, and they have a right to defend themselves from them.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:27 pm

Bill Sikes wrote: This is absolutely shameful. I mean *this thread* - *and the other one*.

care to elucidate?

LilacDragon · Post by **LilacDragon** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:28 pm

I sure wish that people would make up their minds.

Either the U.S. is to be the world police or we should butt out. Which is it?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:35 pm

anastrophe wrote: care to elucidate?

Yes. You seem to have started this thread in retaliation for some nonsense

about "USA = terroris{m,ts}.".

A shame on the honourable gentlemen.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:36 pm

bigears wrote: This seems like rather childish, spiteful post, anastrophe.

thanks for the line. i believe henceforth i will use that every single time spot or anyone else posts about something bad that involves the US.

but its not a blanket dislike of the US.

perhaps not for you. but for many, there is a pathological hatred for the US - everything about the US.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:39 pm

anastrophe wrote: for many, there is a pathological hatred for the US - everything about the US.

As a matter of interest, how many countries in the whole wide world would

you say that is true for?

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:41 pm

Bill Sikes wrote: Yes. You seem to have started this thread in retaliation for some nonsense

about "USA = terroris{m,ts}.".

A shame on the honourable gentlemen.

so, you'll happily condemn me for mentioning something bad that britain's military forced did. no condemnation for the soldiers involved though.

i am incensed at the continuous flow of reports of 'bad things the US did or does" that come from spot. spot, over there in the UK, who focuses with near pathological obsession on anything bad the US does. while never, ever, ever bringing up for discussion anything bad that happens in the UK.

my god, he went on and on about how he was going to make it his life's work to destroy the careers of those involved in the deception regarding the circumstances of american soldier pat tillman's death.

but - british soldiers beating and killing civilians? that's odd. i guess spot considers that acceptable behaviour, because the US didn't do it.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:43 pm

Bill Sikes wrote: As a matter of interest, how many countries in the whole wide world would

you say that is true for?

uh, i can't say what countries think, since i don't believe you can claim that there's any cohesive opinion formed by an entire country.

a lot of people hate the US. i have no numbers. a lot of people whom we have saved from catastrophes - both natural and manmade - quietly hope that someday they'll be sending bundles to america. no good deed ever goes unpunished.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:50 pm

anastrophe wrote: so, you'll happily condemn me for mentioning something bad that britain's military forced did..

My condemnation of your post is, as I bet you're aware, context-dependent.

anastrophe wrote: no condemnation for the soldiers involved though.

Don't you know that the "soldiers involved" are censured by the population at

large here?

anastrophe wrote: i am incensed at the continuous flow of reports of 'bad things the US did or does" that come from spot. spot, over there in the UK, who focuses with near pathological obsession on anything bad the US does.

Well, have a go at him in particular, then. If you take a pop at the entire

population, you do yourself a disservice.

bigears · Post by **bigears** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:04 pm

Look, Anastrophe, have a go at the French. We don't mind that. :sneaky:

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:04 pm

I would never try to convince any American their country was the source of all things wrong in the world and resent the inference.

As for the soldiers in question, shame on them.

hopefully they'll get the book thrown at them, but they'll no doubt get away with it.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:11 pm

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:22 pm

Anastrophe. I read reports like this nearly every day about Brits and US troops. I am so sick of seeing them, that I never bother to raise them. It all seems like fodder to the journalists to me. But I am surprised at the way that you have aimed this at us Brits as a group.

Then you name one Brit and only one as an example and presume that we all think like him. Would you care to be categorised in this way?

If I didn't sense the frustration behind your post, I would be compelled to find it antagonistic. Have I ever condemned the USA for the actions of a few individuals or otherwise try and find fault with you all for these events. I haven't even raised the issue of Guantanamo Bay. This forum's largest contingent of users hail from the USA and I don't think I have a bad word for them as a group. I feel that I have now gained many American friends now. They certainly wouldn't be my friends if I thought that they were the harbingers of all that is evil in this world.

What on earth compels you to think like this. Point me to the posts that show the majority of us Brits on this forum in this light, please.

Oh yes, recently our newspapers have reported that the majority of Brits consider the Americans to be despicable. But I have not seen the statistics that these figures are based on and I am sure that the Brits here in this forum, generally speaking, are pro-American. Otherwise, their opinions would surely have been aired by now.

And Spot. He just likes to stir up an argument. That man is an argument addict.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:22 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: I wasn't talking about you Pinky, but I keep seeing the same people posting in a wide variety of threads begging others not to post anything 'unpleasant.'

That'd make pretty boring debates, don't you think?

Please will you be a bit plainer? If you're on about me, I'm not asking people

"not to post anything 'unpleasant'", but rather not to attack others in the

rabid way that some have been. If you really want, I can always rabidly

attack you, but you'll have to ask me to do that specially, and I may request

a small fee for the extra work. If you're not on about me, please ignore this.

bigears · Post by **bigears** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:24 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: Would it have been an acceptable topic of conversation if another Brit had brought it up? Is the title a bit too blunt?

No offense to anyone here, but I'm getting a little fed up with the continual attempts to tell others how/what/when to post. This forum is filled with intelligent adults that can make their own decisions to either read or make a relevant comment on a topic. This constant whinging about unpleasant threads is becoming incredibly tedious. I see it as a form of censorship and I don't like it.

It is a perfectly acceptable topic of conversation whatever the nationality of the OP. The title, although absolutely meaningless, does not bother me in the slightest.

I have given my opinion with regard to the original topic. I have not told anyone what/when/how to post. That's it.

I will shut up now.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:34 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: Would it have been an acceptable topic of conversation if another Brit had brought it up? Is the title a bit too blunt?

i refer you specifically to the thread entitled

Terrorism = America

blunt indeed was my intent.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:38 pm

interesting to see the umbrage taken at this topic.

yet i'm dismissed as a 'flag waving nationalist' when i take umbrage in a topic entitled

Terrorism = America

pot, meet kettle. kettle, pot.

bigears · Post by **bigears** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:41 pm

anastrophe wrote: interesting to see the umbrage taken at this topic.

yet i'm dismissed as a 'flag waving nationalist' when i take umbrage in a topic entitled

Terrorism = America

pot, meet kettle. kettle, pot.

Yeah - by one person. I bet you're a real gas to out for a pint with.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:43 pm

anastrophe wrote: interesting to see the umbrage taken at this topic.

yet i'm dismissed as a 'flag waving nationalist' when i take umbrage in a topic entitled

Terrorism = America

pot, meet kettle. kettle, pot.

i should acknowledge however, that that topic was started by an american. but it is less so the author of the topic than the relentless search for all things bad america has done, that is brought up at every turn, that frustrates me no end.

think about it. Arnold feels like he's been kicked in the teeth because of this topic. can you imagine how it feels for me, with the constant slagging of america that takes place here?

there isn't a week that goes by that someone doesn't find some ill in the world that through a string of consequences is lead back to bad old america as the cause.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:48 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: My umbrage was not at the topic, simply your intent. Your anger surely should be channeled towards one poster not all Brits

my anger is not towards all brits. my anger is for the endemic attitude around the world that america is fair game for a right slagging at any time. something troubling you? blame america. you can't miss.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:49 pm

anastrophe wrote: i refer you specifically to the thread entitledTerrorism = America

blunt indeed was my intent.

The following posters on that thread that are not American are Spot (Wales), GMC (Scotland), Diuretic (Australian), ArnoldLayne (England), and Koan (Canadian). There are two more who appear to be ashamed to declare their country of origin but, judging by their local time are probably in America - Scrat and Bill Sykes. The rest of the posters on that thread are American. I cannot see that this is sufficient to surmise that the Brits on this forum accuse the Americans of terrorist antagonism of any sort.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:51 pm

ArnoldLayne wrote: Like I said. Not the topic. However uncomfortable ,its a topic for discussion. The kick in the teeth was the dissapointment at you directing your frustrations at other posters. General flailing of arms, we all got hit !

in that case, blame spot. he gives brits a black eye with his expressions of hatred for america. we're baby killers, you know.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:56 pm

OpenMind wrote: The following posters on that thread that are not American are Spot (Wales), GMC (Scotland), Diuretic (Australian), ArnoldLayne (England), and Koan (Canadian). There are two more who appear to be ashamed to declare their country of origin but, judging by their local time are probably in America - Scrat and Bill Sykes. The rest of the posters on that thread are American. I cannot see that this is sufficient to surmise that the Brits on this forum accuse the Americans of terrorist antagonism of any sort.

that wasn't what i said, nor was it what i suggested or intended to suggest. the 'Terrorists = America" thread is a long one, and you can be forgiven for not reading it. as happens frequently, the thread devolved into me at spot going at each other hammer and tong.

"Terrorists = America"

"Military Brutality and Murder = UK"

what's sad is that the former has little in the way of people expressing how sickened they are by the mere suggestion of the topic title. we americans have been so brow beaten that we're becoming inurred to people saying horrible, horrible things about us. yes - the hijackers on 9/11 were the real victims - victims of america's terror around the world.

it makes me want to weep.

bigears · Post by **bigears** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:58 pm

anastrophe wrote: in that case, blame spot. he gives brits a black eye with his expressions of hatred for america. we're baby killers, you know.

Blame him for what? Expressing his views in a debate? Think about what you're saying.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:04 pm

anastrophe wrote: in that case, blame spot. he gives brits a black eye with his expressions of hatred for america. we're baby killers, you know.

So, Anastrophe, you have fallen foul of Spot's powerful ability to argue with extreme bluntness, relentlessness, and mercilessness. The man can take any set of facts and turn them into any argument because of the way people form their opinions in an emotive way.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:51 pm

Clancy wrote: Who's anyone else exactly? It's your place, your forum, isn't it? If you feel so strongly with certain peoples views PM them and tell them to quit.

no, i'm no longer an admin here. but to my knowledge we never censured users for expressing views we didn't like, we censured them for aggressive/hostile/threatening behavior, ****-disturbing, and the like. i'm disturbed that there might be an apprehension that we would have done otherwise.